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Article: Twins to roll with Vance Worley for Opener

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#1 Parker Hageman

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:49 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...th-Vance-Worley

#2 ashburyjohn

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:58 PM

I have this feeling there would be a heavy trail of flop-sweat leading from the warmup mound to the pitching mound, regardless of which man they chose for this duty.

#3 fairweather

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:25 PM

flop-sweat?

#4 fairweather

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:33 PM

How I feel about Worley being the opening day starter is how I feel about 90% of Gardy's managerial moves. It's wrong. So who would I go with? I have no idea. I wouldn't take Gardy's job even with the obscene salary. Not even paying me millions of dollars would make me willing to deal with this rotation, do you think I'm gonna go spend money to watch them? LOL...People may think I'm just talking trash but I'm dead serious and that's funny to me. LOL

#5 Don't Feed the Greed Guy

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:20 PM

Nice touch with the TBD graphic. No longer an April Fools Day joke.

#6 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:08 PM

If Gardy loses his job after this year, I can't help but feel bad for him.
It's not really that I think he's a great manager or anything, I'm kind of neutral on that subject. I think he's a very capable manager, but I don't think he's a great manager.
But, the rosters he's been handed the last 2 years are garbage, and I really don't understand how any kind of progress can be expected from his squad this year.
I like the pieces we have for 2015 and beyond, but I fail to see how we've improved as a whole for 2013.
I see places we've improved, but I see other places we've gotten worse.

#7 Halsey Hall

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:52 PM

At least most fans won't be to disappointed if we falter again this year, with this team. If we could win 75 games, most would be pleasantly surprised. I hope to be pleasantly surprised. And I'll be somewhat pleased if I can stand to watch past the 5th inning more often this year.

#8 Brad Swanson

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:07 PM

People seem pretty down on Worley. Of all the starters acquired this off-season, I am most excited to watch Worley pitch. His 2011 season was really good and he's only 25. He had a rough Spring, but still has a lot of promise. I think he's absolutely the Twins' best healthy starter and therefore he should start Opening Day.

#9 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:28 PM

People seem pretty down on Worley. Of all the starters acquired this off-season, I am most excited to watch Worley pitch. His 2011 season was really good and he's only 25. He had a rough Spring, but still has a lot of promise. I think he's absolutely the Twins' best healthy starter and therefore he should start Opening Day.


For me, (and I'm not even "down" on him, more "not sold on him") I just get a little nervous that there is a reason why Philly was so quick to give up on him so soon.
The Phillies are not a small market team, they could have signed Michael Bourn and gotten a rich man's Revere without giving up anything more than money, which is not an issue for them.
When I look at Worley's 2011 season, I see a fair amount of good luck in those numbers (and to be fair, I also see a fair amount of bad luck in his 2012 numbers).
All in all, I just don't think we know enough about him to really know what to expect, and like I said before, it makes me a little nervous that the Phillies were so quick to give up on him, especially when they have Halladay and Lee nearing the twighlight of their careers.

That said, I was excited when I heard his name in the trade, and I still am. I just think it's perfectly reasonable to have a healthy amount of doubt about him until we see how the season goes.

#10 Big City

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:46 PM

How I feel about Worley being the opening day starter is how I feel about 90% of Gardy's managerial moves. It's wrong. So who would I go with? I have no idea. I wouldn't take Gardy's job even with the obscene salary. Not even paying me millions of dollars would make me willing to deal with this rotation, do you think I'm gonna go spend money to watch them? LOL...People may think I'm just talking trash but I'm dead serious and that's funny to me. LOL


Ha, you're dead wrong. Worley gives the Twins the best chance to compete on day 1. Name me the better option. If/when Gardy doesn't get retained past this season he'll be out of work for maybe 5 minutes. This staff is a joke and the bullpen is even more questionable. The lineup on the other hand has the potential to exceed expectations which makes the pitching staff even that much more of a glaring weakness. I'll chalk it up as a lack of top flight free agent starting pitching and TR's goal to build for the future. We may be down for now but the future is bright and I can't wait to watch the progress of our top prospects as they make their way to Mpls. We've got another top of the rotation type pitcher coming in this summer's draft which should round out our 2014/2015 rotation and the bats to back them up.

Hey AL Central, objects in your mirror are closer than they appear! We're coming!

#11 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:54 PM

Worley is the best we have for opening day at this time. I will be cheering for him and the Twins.
Would I rather have Verlander, Halladay or Lee pitching for us? Yes.
We don't.
This is a rebuilding year. I expect Worley to be part of a rotation that includes some combination of Hendrix, De Vries, Gibson, May, Myers and Deduno soon.

We can deal with it and hope for the best, or we can whine.

As I told my grand-niece when we took her in, "There is no whining in Minnesota".

#12 LastOnePicked

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:21 PM

Not all that much choice. My main concern with Worley is that he'll feel too much pressure to be our ace. We don't have an ace. It's not our year for an ace. It's not our year to take on Detroit. I'm okay with that. We just need him to go out and do his job, be competitive and enjoy developing with some of the other younger arms. Even the worst day of major league baseball has got to be better than the best days at 90+% of other jobs.

#13 jokin

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:24 PM

We've got another top of the rotation type pitcher coming in this summer's draft which should round out our 2014/2015 rotation and the bats to back them up.


That's assuming the Twins don't decide to go and select all "toolsy" again, especially if they think they can't sign your top of the rotation type at slot value.

#14 Shane Wahl

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:04 AM

Worley is the best non-Diamond, non-Gibson starter around the organization right now.

#15 mcrow

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:10 AM

I knew that once Diamond wasn't going to be able to start for the opener that it would be Worley. He's the most talented pitcher on roster besides Diamond. He had a rough spring but I 'm still excited to see what he can do. I think he could be pretty good for the Twins this year. So, I agree with Worley getting the start. Besides, who else would you start?

#16 old nurse

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:41 AM

For me, (and I'm not even "down" on him, more "not sold on him") I just get a little nervous that there is a reason why Philly was so quick to give up on him so soon.
The Phillies are not a small market team, they could have signed Michael Bourn and gotten a rich man's Revere without giving up anything more than money, which is not an issue for them.
When I look at Worley's 2011 season, I see a fair amount of good luck in those numbers (and to be fair, I also see a fair amount of bad luck in his 2012 numbers).
All in all, I just don't think we know enough about him to really know what to expect, and like I said before, it makes me a little nervous that the Phillies were so quick to give up on him, especially when they have Halladay and Lee nearing the twighlight of their careers.

That said, I was excited when I heard his name in the trade, and I still am. I just think it's perfectly reasonable to have a healthy amount of doubt about him until we see how the season goes.


Phillies are about a 150 million payroll. Next year they have 7 players taking 125 million. If they were not concerned about money they might have signed Bourn. They might have seen something in his game while they played against Atlanta to think that he is an overly expensive Ben Revere. In their view Worley might not have been a long term front end starter. They have plenty coming to deal with the long term. The next few years they have the big three locked up.

#17 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:03 AM

Phillies are about a 150 million payroll. Next year they have 7 players taking 125 million. If they were not concerned about money they might have signed Bourn. They might have seen something in his game while they played against Atlanta to think that he is an overly expensive Ben Revere. In their view Worley might not have been a long term front end starter. They have plenty coming to deal with the long term. The next few years they have the big three locked up.


Not sure about that. Biddle is probably a #2 at best, Martin has a great fastball, but seems destined for the bullpen, and Pettitbone is a middle of the rotation guy.

You are right, perhaps they saw something with Bourn that makes them think he is overrated, but if they think he's better I don't think money is an issue.
Roy Halladay's 2014 option is almost surely not going to vest, and they have Utley and Michael Young coming off the books after this year.

I guess what I'm saying is obviously there is no way to know if they saw something in Worley that they didn't like, but to me its enough to raise at least a little bit of a red flag. I don't think it can just be dismissed.

#18 ThePuck

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:08 AM

'We've got another top of the rotation type pitcher coming in this summer's draft which should round out our 2014/2015 rotation...'

I wouldn't bet any money on that...

#19 ThePuck

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:10 AM

If Worley can keep his weight under control, he's likely our best pitcher right now...he's got better stuff than Diamond.

#20 mcrow

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:14 AM

If Worley can keep his weight under control, he's likely our best pitcher right now...he's got better stuff than Diamond.


Yeah, I think he does have better stuff than Diamond. That's why I'm intrigued by him.

#21 ThePuck

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:49 PM

still great seats available for the home opener. Section 114, row 13 has two seats available through the Twins MLB ticket section...

#22 ashburyjohn

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:17 PM

I guess what I'm saying is obviously there is no way to know if they saw something in Worley that they didn't like, but to me its enough to raise at least a little bit of a red flag. I don't think it can just be dismissed.


Almost every personnel decision could be seen in this light. For every trade, there's another team's scouts who gave it the green light to give up the stud your scouts say to get. For every draft pick except #1, there is a team ahead of you whose scouts said not to pick the guy your scouts want. For every free agent you succeed in signing to an offer, there are 29 teams' scouts who evidently weren't as high on him to offer as much. Ultimately, you can pay attention to the red flags, but trust in your scouts more than the other guys'.

#23 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:57 PM

Almost every personnel decision could be seen in this light. For every trade, there's another team's scouts who gave it the green light to give up the stud your scouts say to get. For every draft pick except #1, there is a team ahead of you whose scouts said not to pick the guy your scouts want. For every free agent you succeed in signing to an offer, there are 29 teams' scouts who evidently weren't as high on him to offer as much. Ultimately, you can pay attention to the red flags, but trust in your scouts more than the other guys'.


I hear what you are saying, but guys who have already made 60 big league starts are a little different than prospects or draft picks.
In a case like this, there is no way that your scouts can know as much as their scouts, given that they get to see what he does in BP sessions, what kind of person he is, how dedicated he is, all that stuff.

#24 RodneyKline

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 09:21 AM

I agree that the farm system looks better and Terry Ryan did a nice job on that but I don't get why everyone thinks that 2015 and beyond looks so great. These are still long shot prospects and TR has proven that he is too cheap to fill in the gaps with good free agents and/or pay to keep the young guys that do beat the odds. Until TR realizes that you get what you pay for and stops the 100% dumpster dive strategy, the team will not be competitive again.

I like the pieces we have for 2015 and beyond, but I fail to see how we've improved as a whole for 2013.
I see places we've improved, but I see other places we've gotten worse.


#25 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:31 AM

I agree that the farm system looks better and Terry Ryan did a nice job on that but I don't get why everyone thinks that 2015 and beyond looks so great. These are still long shot prospects and TR has proven that he is too cheap to fill in the gaps with good free agents and/or pay to keep the young guys that do beat the odds. Until TR realizes that you get what you pay for and stops the 100% dumpster dive strategy, the team will not be competitive again.


Except for the last time he used that strategy to win four division titles in five years.

There's a lot to dislike about Ryan's strategy but to say he will never field a competitive team is foolish. He did it once. There's no reason he can't do it again.

#26 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:51 AM

I agree that the farm system looks better and Terry Ryan did a nice job on that but I don't get why everyone thinks that 2015 and beyond looks so great. These are still long shot prospects and TR has proven that he is too cheap to fill in the gaps with good free agents and/or pay to keep the young guys that do beat the odds. Until TR realizes that you get what you pay for and stops the 100% dumpster dive strategy, the team will not be competitive again.


Yes, all prospects, by themselves, are longshots. But, its a numbers game. Just like there is no way that all of them will pan out, there is also no way that all of them will fail.

IMO, we have about 16 or 17 guys in our system right now that have the upside to be either every day lineup guys, starting rotation pitchers, or solid BP arms.
Even if less than 1/3 of these guys pan out, that should be 4 or 5 solid big leaguers who are costing the minimum, that should be a good start to build around.

#27 ashburyjohn

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:18 AM

I hear what you are saying, but guys who have already made 60 big league starts are a little different than prospects or draft picks.
In a case like this, there is no way that your scouts can know as much as their scouts, given that they get to see what he does in BP sessions, what kind of person he is, how dedicated he is, all that stuff.


And I guess if I'm hearing what you're saying, one would never make a trade with another team for a player who's been in the pros for more than a year.

#28 jokin

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:20 AM

still great seats available for the home opener. Section 114, row 13 has two seats available through the Twins MLB ticket section...


Do those come with seat warmers?

#29 jokin

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:23 AM

'We've got another top of the rotation type pitcher coming in this summer's draft which should round out our 2014/2015 rotation...'

I wouldn't bet any money on that...


Absolutely this. I'll believe that the Twins will draft a projected-over-slot SP when I see it.

#30 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:25 AM

And I guess if I'm hearing what you're saying, one would never make a trade with another team for a player who's been in the pros for more than a year.


No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
I don't know how I can be much clearer about it, so I'll try just repeating what I said a few posts ago, which was something along the lines of:
It's probably nothing, but to me it raises at least a little bit of a red flag, at least enough that it can't be completely dismissed.

I don't understand why statements made on this site are assumed to be meant as one extreme or another.

If I make a statement as simple as, "I have no problem with Butera, but I certainly don't see how its any big loss if we were to lose him.", people take that to mean that I hate Butera, and think he doesn't belong on the roster.

If I make a statement as simple as, "The fact that Phillies were willing to give up on him so soon, makes me wonder IF there could be something they saw that leads them to believe he isn't going to work out.", it gets taken as if I'm saying, "The fact that the Phillies traded a young pitcher MUST mean that they know he's going to be terrible."

Huge difference between me thinking it COULD be a small red flag, and thinking it absolutely means something.