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Marcum signing just got "cuirouser" and the Twins have some 'splainin' to do

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#1 jokin

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:04 PM

Brief excerpts from a few articles regarding today's unveiling of Shaun Marcum to the New York press. It could be all a massive cover-up about his arm health, but Marcum is now on record. He says he's completely healthy and no one offered him a multi-year deal. Begs the question, what held the Twins back from standing out in that crowd of 20 teams? And, why weren't they willing to outbid the horrid Mets on a one-year deal?




Marcum: Replacing Dickey team effort - Mets Blog - ESPN New York:


"....Marcum, 31, went 7-4 with a 3.71 ERA in 21 starts for the Milwaukee Brewers last season. He spent nine weeks during the summer on the disabled list with right elbow tightness, but said the injury was nowhere near as grave as the issue that led to him undergoing Tommy John surgery on Sept. 30, 2008.

“We did MRIs, all that stuff. Nothing alarming,” Marcum said about last season’s DL stint. “We did another one this winter to make sure. And there was nothing alarming. I don’t know what exactly it was, but the main thing is it wasn’t a flexor tendon or a ligament or anything like that.”

He said he would have liked to have signed a multi-year deal this winter,
but “nothing came about.”


“I know (Mets special assistant J.P. Ricciardi ), he pushed a little bit. I can’t say how much. But I know he had some say in getting me there,” Marcum said. “And the other thing, for me, was an opportunity to go out and pitch -- make 30-plus starts -- and an opportunity to go out and throw over 200 innings. I think that’s every starter’s goal. They’re giving me the opportunity to do that.”

He said he has been throwing more this offseason than in other years as a pro to build up his arm strength.

Marcum says he isn't feeling any residual effects from the elbow tightness that cost him nine weeks of play over the summer.

Read more at MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com


And this - NJ.com :



“I’m actually throwing more than I did,” Marcum said. “The philosophy I was brought up in [as a pro] was kind of ‘save your bullets, don’t throw too much.’ I kind of went back to my old high school, college days when my arm was feeling great. I was throwing as much as I possibly could. Throwing every single day. Throwing more distance. Long-tossing out to 280, 300 feet. And I’ve just been building up that arm strength.

He is pleased with the results.

"I’ve really had no problems since starting that program," Marcum said. "And I’ve really had no problems since … when I came off the DL sometime in August."

Edited by jokin, 31 January 2013 - 12:23 AM.


#2 snepp

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:06 PM

As so eloquently stated in that other thread, "dollars and years." They can't take it if you don't offer it.
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#3 jokin

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:10 PM

As so eloquently stated in that other thread, "dollars and years."


And both available in abundance on the Twins payroll and roster.

#4 mcrow

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:18 PM

Did the Twins even make an offer?

I think I'd rather have Saunders for $8m than Marcum for $4M. That thing with his elbow that nobody seems to know what was causing it would be a big red flag. However, the upside of picking up Marcum is a lot higher than Saunders. I can see why the Twins wouldn't want to go with him though, they really don't need another Zumaya issue and you already have Harden who is high injury risk.

Would have been nice to get a healthy year out of Marcum but that weird arm thing sets off some alarms. Might have been worth a risk but maybe not.

#5 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:19 PM

So basically 30 GMs around the league thought he wasn't worth a multiyear contract.

And I guess I'm just a little bit skeptical when it's the player (or agent) who is telling people what a good catch he was.

Edited by IdahoPilgrim, 30 January 2013 - 10:22 PM.


#6 Top Gun

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:21 PM

Unbelieve able why the F.O. refuses to upgrade the worse team in baseball.

#7 Nick Nelson

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:22 PM

Hard to put much stock into quotes from the player himself, but if he ends up staying relatively healthy and pitching the way he has for most of his career, there are going to be a lot of teams looking stupid -- none more so than the Twins.

#8 mcrow

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:23 PM

So basically 30 GMs around the league thought he wasn't worth a multiyear contract.


That's another thing to consider. Rumor is that 15-20 teams inquired about him nobody was willing to do more than one year or more than $4m which should tell you something.

#9 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:23 PM

Unbelieve able why the F.O. refuses to upgrade the worse team in baseball.


The Houston Astros?

#10 Wookiee of the Year

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:25 PM

So basically 30 GMs around the league thought he wasn't worth a multiyear contract.

And I guess I'm just a little bit skeptical when it's the player (or agent) who is telling people what a good catch he was.

That's my thought, too. It seems to me like Marcum's worth more than $4 million for 1 year, but 28 GMs side with Terry Ryan, not me.

#11 snepp

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:26 PM

Did the Twins even make an offer?


No, if the report is to be believed.
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#12 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:27 PM

That's another thing to consider. Rumor is that 15-20 teams inquired about him nobody was willing to do more than one year or more than $4m which should tell you something.


That's all well and good, but in this kind of market and given this GM's resistance to anything seemingly more than 3 years.....this was PRECISELY the situation they should have been hoping for and pounced on. That's the failure here.

#13 Rosterman

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:32 PM

The Twins only want to pay $3.75. Kinda like they were hoping Baker would be $1.5. And Liriano $750,000 with incentives.
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#14 Top Gun

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:33 PM

Alot of the teams already have there top 5 SP pick out., some have more than 7 sp lined up. Marcum could probably be #1 for the Twins.

#15 The Wise One

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:33 PM

From my medical friends nothing alarming is far different than normal. What the patient probably heard was nothing after "we found nothing alarming"
No reporter asked him what teams looked at his medical record. If a dozen did, then there would be a reasonable chance that nothing alarming is more.
Still doesn't excuse the Twins for not taking a chance.

#16 mcrow

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:39 PM

That's all well and good, but in this kind of market and given this GM's resistance to anything seemingly more than 3 years.....this was PRECISELY the situation they should have been hoping for and pounced on. That's the failure here.


Who have they made offers to that were worth offering 3 years? So, the Twins don't look to be a contender this year and we should bring on a guy who is likely to spend time on the DL this year? I think if you had a guy like Suanders already on the books maybe to take a stab at Marcum that way you have at least one guy on the staff that's likely to be an innings eater if Marcum goes down. You can slip a young guy in at the end of the rotation and if needed.

When you have a rotation with Diamond who is young and you're really not sure how good he's going to be this year and Pelfry coming off of TJ plus Gibson coming off of TJ, broke down Harden, and mediocre Correia (at best) you need someone you can count on to take the mound. Twins luck would be Pelfry goes down, Harden is injured, and Marcum goes down as well.

Actually, I think I might have just talked myself into liking the idea of Saunders.:banghead:

#17 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:43 PM

Who have they made offers to that were worth offering 3 years? So, the Twins don't look to be a contender this year and we should bring on a guy who is likely to spend time on the DL this year?


You answered your own question. If you're not a contender....who cares? Let one of the many fill-in guys from last year take the spot. Again, offer him 2 years and 10M and you hurt NOTHING while taking a great buy-low opportunity. Marcum might fail miserably and be hurt.....but again....who cares? They failed to take advantage of a market blip that they absolutely had to. And the only reason was their own stubborn attitudes. As a fan, that is irritating as hell and shows a very narrow scope for how to improve this club.

#18 mcrow

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:03 PM

You answered your own question. If you're not a contender....who cares? Let one of the many fill-in guys from last year take the spot. Again, offer him 2 years and 10M and you hurt NOTHING while taking a great buy-low opportunity. Marcum might fail miserably and be hurt.....but again....who cares? They failed to take advantage of a market blip that they absolutely had to. And the only reason was their own stubborn attitudes. As a fan, that is irritating as hell and shows a very narrow scope for how to improve this club.


Who cares? What would you be willing to offer a guy with an arm that's likely to come unglued? Looks like at least $4M, how many years? One year contract doesn't do much for a team not in contention. If he comes in and pitches great and is healthy he walks for big money next year, you sign him to a multi year deal and his are falls off in spring training and you're out maybe $8m+ with nothing to show for it.

I say no thanks. I would have loved them to take a serious run at a real ace without major health questions.

#19 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:08 PM

I would have loved them to take a serious run at a real ace without major health questions.


Ok, back up and think. We all would love a couple Grienkes or something. But our GM hates large contracts to pitchers, so that wasn't going to happen. Here we had a very good pitcher, with serious injury concerns no one is denying, but with serious talent and excellent results in his career who was not being offered a multi-year deal and best he could do was 1 year and 4M. Meaning he fell right into the wheelhouse of what our GM can stomach.

If someone prior to this offseason said "We could sign Marcum for 1 year 7M" or even "2 years 12M" you would have had people laughing at the absurdity of such a good deal. We had a chance at that or LESS and failed to even offer. There are no excuses for that. None.

#20 snepp

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:12 PM

If he comes in and pitches great he turns into a pretty attractive trade chip, and you win more games in the process, which helps fill this horrendous hole of apathy they've been digging for themselves.

If his arm falls off, you're out a few million bucks they weren't going to spend anyway.

This "they suck so why bother trying to improve" line of thought is beyond maddening.
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#21 mcrow

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:13 PM

Ok, back up and think. We all would love a couple Grienkes or something. But our GM hates large contracts to pitchers, so that wasn't going to happen. Here we had a very good pitcher, with serious injury concerns no one is denying, but with serious talent and excellent results in his career who was not being offered a multi-year deal and best he could do was 1 year and 4M. Meaning he fell right into the wheelhouse of what our GM can stomach.

If someone prior to this offseason said "We could sign Marcum for 1 year 7M" or even "2 years 12M" you would have had people laughing at the absurdity of such a good deal. We had a chance at that or LESS and failed to even offer. There are no excuses for that. None.

I think the Twins should have made an offer but I'm sure they kicked the tires and were one of the 15-20 teams asking about him. You never know what the agent might have wanted when they contacted him but either way they should have offered him some sort of contract. Absolutely under no circumstances should they have offered more than one year though.

#22 snepp

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

Absolutely under no circumstances should they have offered more than one year though.


Marcum probably wouldn't want a low-ball two year deal anyway. If he truly believes he's healthy I'm sure he'd rather have the single year and hit the market again next offseason.
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#23 PseudoSABR

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:19 PM

Evidently 30 other teams have some splanin to do. Marcum could convince just one team of his health, the Mets, the envy of front offices everywhere.

#24 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:20 PM

I think the Twins should have made an offer but I'm sure they kicked the tires and were one of the 15-20 teams asking about him. You never know what the agent might have wanted when they contacted him but either way they should have offered him some sort of contract. Absolutely under no circumstances should they have offered more than one year though.


Then outbid the one year offer. You're not spending the money anyway. Again, even double the 4M he got would've been well within what most any sane fan would've been ok with gambling on a talent like him.

#25 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:21 PM

Evidently 30 other teams have some splanin to do. Marcum could convince just one team of his health, the Mets, the envy of front offices everywhere.


Another scarecrow bites the dust! This stuff lately is straight out of Hot Shots Part Deux.

#26 mcrow

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:21 PM

This "they suck so why bother trying to improve" line of thought is beyond maddening.

That's not what I'm saying though. I would have loved picking up a big name starter. Or even a lesser named pitcher who is healthy. Or maybe you sign a durable innings eater fairly cheap and sign a guy like Marcum, then you at least have insurance on him. If he doesn't get injured and pitches well you have guy who is a solid #2 maybe #1 pitcher and still have the durable inning eater as well.

Now if they had Saunders:
#1 Marcum
#2 Worely
#3 Diamond
#4- Saunders
#5- Pelfrey, Correia, Gibson, Hendricks..ect

If Marcum works out you have a competent rotation and depth. So I'm in favor of picking up both guys for around $12M, but not really that excited about a likely to be injured guy without any real insurance on the staff. If we could have both, I want both. If we can only have one I'd rather have Saunders and I'm not over joyed about settling for Saunders as the big FA pitching upgrade for the year either.

#27 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:23 PM

That's not what I'm saying though. I would have loved picking up a big name starter. Or even a lesser named pitcher who is healthy. Or maybe you sign a durable innings eater fairly cheap and sign a guy like Marcum, then you at least have insurance on him. If he doesn't get injured and pitches well you have guy who is a solid #2 maybe #1 pitcher and still have the durable inning eater as well.


We tried - we overpaid him and then didn't add Marcum. That's the whole friggin point!!!!!!

#28 johnnydakota

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:32 PM

Did the Twins even make an offer?

I think I'd rather have Saunders for $8m than Marcum for $4M. That thing with his elbow that nobody seems to know what was causing it would be a big red flag. However, the upside of picking up Marcum is a lot higher than Saunders. I can see why the Twins wouldn't want to go with him though, they really don't need another Zumaya issue and you already have Harden who is high injury risk.

Would have been nice to get a healthy year out of Marcum but that weird arm thing sets off some alarms. Might have been worth a risk but maybe not.


So your ok with Correia on a 2 year deal , but not Marcum on a 1 year deal?

#29 Nick Nelson

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:40 PM

You answered your own question. If you're not a contender....who cares? Let one of the many fill-in guys from last year take the spot. Again, offer him 2 years and 10M and you hurt NOTHING while taking a great buy-low opportunity. Marcum might fail miserably and be hurt.....but again....who cares? They failed to take advantage of a market blip that they absolutely had to. And the only reason was their own stubborn attitudes. As a fan, that is irritating as hell and shows a very narrow scope for how to improve this club.

Hard to disagree with this. The Twins were as well positioned to take this gamble as any team in baseball. Unless it is commonly known among front offices that the guy's arm is on the verge of falling off, I can't make any sense of it.

The thing is, he came back from the elbow injury last year and pitched well in August and September. Lights out in his last three starts. Just bizarre. Can't see any way he'd be viewed as a bigger risk than a guy 10 months removed from freaking Tommy John surgery.

#30 snepp

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:50 PM

If Marcum works out you have a competent rotation and depth. So I'm in favor of picking up both guys for around $12M, but not really that excited about a likely to be injured guy without any real insurance on the staff. If we could have both, I want both. If we can only have one I'd rather have Saunders and I'm not over joyed about settling for Saunders as the big FA pitching upgrade for the year either.


I can understand that, but I take the shot on Marcum regardless, his potential upside is just that much better than Saunders. I would have much preferred a combination of both (without any Correia), but sadly that ship set sail way too early in free agency.
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- Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's