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Source: Twins have 1 yr offer to Saunders; never made offer to Marcum

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#1 Willihammer

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:27 PM

Source: Twins want Joe Saunders on 1-year deal, waiting to hear back | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Twins

According to Darren Wolfson's source

#2 jokin

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:30 PM

Source: Twins want Joe Saunders on 1-year deal, waiting to hear back | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Twins

According to Darren Wolfson's source


Doogie has so many "source's" out there, he's bound to get one of them right at some point.

If this comes to fruition, it somewhat softens the self-inflicted blow that the Twins have done to themselves, but it's pretty sad that I get sucked into finding any solace whatsover in hoping the trigger gets pulled here. At least it would only be a one-year deal.

#3 snepp

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:33 PM

I don't believe for one second that the Twins never made an offer to Marcum. They always make competitive offers, and are always rejected.
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#4 TheLeviathan

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:40 PM

I don't believe for one second that the Twins never made an offer to Marcum. They always make competitive offers, and are always rejected.


Well yeah, they made a proposal to Marcum. Idiot journalists are just not giving them proper credit. All a conspiracy to cover up the fact that all MLB FAs are in cahoots to spurn our every advance.

#5 Alex

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:44 PM

Well yeah, they made a proposal to Marcum. Idiot journalists are just not giving them proper credit. All a conspiracy to cover up the fact that all MLB FAs are in cahoots to spurn our every advance.


I bet the Twins offered Greinke more, too, but we don't have enough real fans in Minnesota, so he turned them down.

...

(too much?)

#6 John Bonnes

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:01 PM

Doogie's sources, for the most part, seem to be agents. He's also, imho, the best local inside info reporter locally. If he's saying the Twins never offered a contract to Marcum, I believe him.

#7 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:02 PM

I really wanted Marcum on this club, but with the contract he got from the Mets it is clear his injury is rather serious/concerning. Plus the Twins have already brought in multiple guys coming off significant injuries this off-season in Worley, Pelfrey and Harden (though he doesn't really count as much) so it makes sense trying to bring in a guy like Saunders instead.

I don't get all the Saunders hate, he isn't sexy by any means but he will give you 180+ IP and a slightly above league average ERA. (103 ERA+ career) 4.15 career ERA. He basically becomes what Pavano was for us when healthy (which was pretty good to be honest)

#8 jokin

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:19 PM

I really wanted Marcum on this club, but with the contract he got from the Mets it is clear his injury is rather serious/concerning. Plus the Twins have already brought in multiple guys coming off significant injuries this off-season in Worley, Pelfrey and Harden (though he doesn't really count as much) so it makes sense trying to bring in a guy like Saunders instead.

I don't get all the Saunders hate, he isn't sexy by any means but he will give you 180+ IP and a slightly above league average ERA. (103 ERA+ career) 4.15 career ERA. He basically becomes what Pavano was for us when healthy (which was pretty good to be honest)


Last 3 years, the SP ML xFIP is 4.04. Saunders 3-year xFIP is 4.38. Correia's 3-year xFIP is actually a better shade of below-average mediocrity, 4.26. I know you're not saying this, but let's not hold much pretense that Saunders would come in and be the key catalyst in a dramatic Twins turnaround. Although it's a lot like getting a date with Miss Hospitality, it is significantly better having Saunders' innings out there than the alternative. Again, sadly, the biggest benefit to this proposed deal is the one-year nature of it.

#9 Willihammer

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:39 PM

This sort of thing makes my blood boil

"just a matter of their interest in us," Ryan said. "I don't know why somebody wouldn't want to come here who's a legitimate starter."


If the offer is truly for just 1 year, then, I don't know, maybe its not Minnesota. Maybe its the offer!

edit: no, wait. Correia turned down more money to come to Minnesota. Therefore, Minnesota must be in fact, more desirable than other places. So much more desirable, in fact, that FAs should just play here for a discount even though there's not payroll restriction anyway.

Edited by Willihammer, 25 January 2013 - 05:41 PM.


#10 jokin

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:42 PM

He's also, imho, the best local inside info reporter locally..


Considering the "competition", this really isn't much of an accolade.

#11 drjim

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:23 PM

I'd take Saunders but I don't think he is much more than a lefthanded Correia.
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#12 Willihammer

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:43 PM

He's all that's left!

#13 nicksaviking

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:36 PM

Wow is this a crock. No one is bringing up the obvious. No way does Saunders take a one year deal from the Twins, because if it is only one year, the Orioles will likely match it and he will go back to Baltimore where he pitched and succeded last year.

Ryan knows this, but he can once again play the no one wants to come here card.

Has he stopped to think that if he keeps laying this line of BS, free agents might actually start believing something is wrong with Minnesota?

#14 jokin

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:06 PM

Wow is this a crock. No one is bringing up the obvious. No way does Saunders take a one year deal from the Twins, because if it is only one year, the Orioles will likely match it and he will go back to Baltimore where he pitched and succeded last year.

Ryan knows this, but he can once again play the no one wants to come here card.

Has he stopped to think that if he keeps laying this line of BS, free agents might actually start believing something is wrong with Minnesota?


It would indeed be ironic if Duqette ends up with both Jurrjens and Saunders in the rotation and effective, with a combined one-year salary less than what Correia is guaranteed for two years. Not a big fan of Saunders except as a #5 and on a year-to-year basis, and you're right Nick, Ryan will never try to win a bidding war, even on a no-brainer situation like this one.

And yes, I don't think he's ever read any econ books about The Law of Unintended Consequences. This "woe is me" act is really pathetic and insulting to Twins fans.

Edited by jokin, 25 January 2013 - 09:09 PM.


#15 Knotholemike

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:15 PM

No way does Saunders take a one year deal from the Twins, because if it is only one year, the Orioles will likely match it and he will go back to Baltimore where he pitched and succeded last year.


The Orioles have moved on. It is unbelievable how many people on this board simply do not do the math or examine the specifics of what other teams are doing/have done. Saunders has only 3 different options left: Seattle, San Diego and Minnesota. I said this previously to all those wannabe GMs who wanted to give Saunders $10M to $12.5M per year for multiple years. BTB, any "major" free agent will avoid the frozen tundra of Minnesota if at all possible. This is reality. Deal with it. It would take a very special free agent to accept a deal with the Twins. Take that to your ice fishing house and smoke it.

#16 Joe A. Preusser

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:40 PM

The Orioles have moved on. It is unbelievable how many people on this board simply do not do the math or examine the specifics of what other teams are doing/have done. Saunders has only 3 different options left: Seattle, San Diego and Minnesota. I said this previously to all those wannabe GMs who wanted to give Saunders $10M to $12.5M per year for multiple years. BTB, any "major" free agent will avoid the frozen tundra of Minnesota if at all possible. This is reality. Deal with it. It would take a very special free agent to accept a deal with the Twins. Take that to your ice fishing house and smoke it.


I couldn't disagree more. If we have a good team and are willing to pay market value, we can attract big name free agents. A few might shy away because of the reduced capacity for endorsements, but all else being equal, most will come play here. Right now we are not competitive and aren't willing to pay top dollar because of it, so they are looking elsewhere. It's as simple as that.

#17 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:42 PM

I have no trouble believing that Minnesota is not considered an attractive market for free agents, and the only way to get them is to seriously overpay (of which I am not in favor). Let's not forget what a member of Ricky Rubio's family said when he was playing over in Europe and the thinking was he was lobbying for a trade to an east coast team: "Bottom line, why would Rubio go to Minnesota?"

Personally, I love living here, and I'm going to be sad to leave it when I move in February, but I was also born and raised here. As far as sheer glamour, for those who weren't, we can't top New York, LA, Chicago, etc. That's not to diss Minnesota; that's to recognize how we are often perceived by outsiders (rightly or wrongly).

#18 johnnydakota

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:46 PM

I really wanted Marcum on this club, but with the contract he got from the Mets it is clear his injury is rather serious/concerning. Plus the Twins have already brought in multiple guys coming off significant injuries this off-season in Worley, Pelfrey and Harden (though he doesn't really count as much) so it makes sense trying to bring in a guy like Saunders instead.

I don't get all the Saunders hate, he isn't sexy by any means but he will give you 180+ IP and a slightly above league average ERA. (103 ERA+ career) 4.15 career ERA. He basically becomes what Pavano was for us when healthy (which was pretty good to be honest)


Why? Heading into the off season you thought , if only we could get Saunders and Correia we could make a run at the divisional title?
No we all knew we needed 2 front of the rotation starters, and what did we get? a big pile of steaming horse ploop and Ryan cuts more payroll... same ole song and dance...

#19 Kwak

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:00 PM

Did I miss something?--Like "The Handbook of Values for Major League Baseball Players" that lists what salary (including incentive clauses) that each player is "worth". I read all these comments about "overpay" and I wonder "...hmm, how does [he] know what constitutes 'overpay' "?
Though some sort of comparision to the salary of other players is inevitable there clearly needs to be adjustment for where/when said player played, changes in health, and "woe is me" adjustment factors for changing to a new team with a different competitive situation and location, etc. Or, are salaries determined by plain,old, supply and demand? and "overpay" is simply a term invented by unbidders (and non-bidders) to disparage the player and his new team and salary?

#20 howeda7

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:46 PM

Doogie's sources, for the most part, seem to be agents. He's also, imho, the best local inside info reporter locally. If he's saying the Twins never offered a contract to Marcum, I believe him.


Doogies the 'best local reporter' in the same way that Saunders would be the Twins 'ace'.

#21 lightfoot789

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:54 PM

I couldn't disagree more. If we have a good team and are willing to pay market value, we can attract big name free agents. A few might shy away because of the reduced capacity for endorsements, but all else being equal, most will come play here. Right now we are not competitive and aren't willing to pay top dollar because of it, so they are looking elsewhere. It's as simple as that.


That would have to mean you were never competitive or you have never offered market value. Name someone who has ever come? Players view the cold weather as a negative. History as everyone tells me doesn't lie. That's the Sabermetrics of this situation.

#22 lightfoot789

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:01 AM

[quote name='sbknudson']I have no trouble believing that Minnesota is not considered an attractive market for free agents, and the only way to get them is to seriously overpay (of which I am not in favor). Let's not forget what a member of Ricky Rubio's family said when he was playing over in Europe and the thinking was he was lobbying for a trade to an east coast team: "Bottom line, why would Rubio go to Minnesota?"

Personally, I love living here, and I'm going to be sad to leave it when I move in February, but I was also born and raised here. As far as sheer glamour, for those who weren't, we can't top New York, LA, Chicago, etc. That's not to diss Minnesota; that's to recognize how we are often perceived by outsiders (rightly or wrongly).[/QUOTE]

That's all I'm saying - I Love MN and my Twins
That's not to diss Minnesota; that's to recognize how we are often perceived by outsiders (rightly or wrongly).[/QUOTE]

#23 DelawareTwinsFan

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:02 AM

BTB, any "major" free agent will avoid the frozen tundra of Minnesota if at all possible. This is reality. Deal with it. It would take a very special free agent to accept a deal with the Twins. Take that to your ice fishing house and smoke it.


Not sure I agree for the following reasons...
If my memory serves me correctly, major league baseball is played in the summertime. I also think players aren't required to live in Minnesota even during the season. During the summer, Minnesota is actually a rather lovely place, particularly areas north of the Twin Cities. I hear the hunting and fishing is pretty good. Pardon me if I've stated anything particularly obvious.

#24 LaBombo

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:07 AM

That would have to mean you were never competitive or you have never offered market value. Name someone who has ever come? Players view the cold weather as a negative. History as everyone tells me doesn't lie. That's the Sabermetrics of this situation.


If it makes it easier for you to stomach the Twins' offseason in free agency to believe that players are giving up millions to avoid a half dozen April games that might be 5 degrees cool than Detroit or Chicago or other northern cities, go for it.

By the way, how much of a premium are teams like Texas paying to have free agents come to play in 2+ months of hellish heat, as opposed to a handful of cold games?

Edited by LaBombo, 26 January 2013 - 12:28 AM.


#25 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:09 AM

Why? Heading into the off season you thought , if only we could get Saunders and Correia we could make a run at the divisional title?
No we all knew we needed 2 front of the rotation starters, and what did we get? a big pile of steaming horse ploop and Ryan cuts more payroll... same ole song and dance...

We also got Pelfrey, Worley, May, Meyer, Harden.... Not all will help immediately but the Twins did bring in pitching depth currently, and some real talent for the future.

#26 Kwak

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:06 AM

That would have to mean you were never competitive or you have never offered market value. Name someone who has ever come? Players view the cold weather as a negative. History as everyone tells me doesn't lie. That's the Sabermetrics of this situation.

What cold weather? The games are played from April to October, with temperatures very much the same as any other city. True, there aren't very many truly "hot" and humid days, but that is normally considered a "good" thing. Winter? Players generally don't live in the same place year-round anyway--often seeking states that have low or zero state income taxes. This cold weather excuse just doesn't cut it for baseball.

#27 Shane Wahl

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:21 AM

OK. I am flabbergasted. If the Twins had simply made the Revere traded even for Worley alone, signed Baker to the same incentive-laded deal, and signed Marcum to the same incentive-laden deal while still throwing the flyer at Harden, it would have been a big ass improvement over what actually occurred. Baker at 5.5 million plus 1.5 million and Marcum at 4/4 would mean 15 million HOPEFULLY for one year and some leverage in resigning. That's better than 8.5 million now for Correia and Pelfrey, plus making that $13 million automatically anyway. Marcum is OBVIOUSLY a lower health risk and is OBVIOUSLY a higher upside than Pelfrey. And then it's Baker vs. Correia . . . .

#28 Kwak

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:52 AM

OK. I am flabbergasted. If the Twins had simply made the Revere traded even for Worley alone, signed Baker to the same incentive-laded deal, and signed Marcum to the same incentive-laden deal while still throwing the flyer at Harden, it would have been a big ass improvement over what actually occurred. Baker at 5.5 million plus 1.5 million and Marcum at 4/4 would mean 15 million HOPEFULLY for one year and some leverage in resigning. That's better than 8.5 million now for Correia and Pelfrey, plus making that $13 million automatically anyway. Marcum is OBVIOUSLY a lower health risk and is OBVIOUSLY a higher upside than Pelfrey. And then it's Baker vs. Correia . . . .

But Ryan believed he had the leverage and that Baker owed the Twins--he was wrong. That setback coupled with the non-acceptance of any other offer made (though we can't say for sure that there were any offers, only guess) a more aggressive offer was made to KC. I don't believe that any of the "top FA pitchers this year" were ever on his radar.

#29 Top Gun

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:23 AM

Ryan just wants to show the fans who is boss, Dumb Twins fans.

#30 jokin

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:28 AM

Doogies the 'best local reporter' in the same way that Saunders would be the Twins 'ace'.


Early morning LOL TD highlight of the day.