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Rays on the move?

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#1 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:31 PM

This article does not give much reason for hope for the future of major league baseball in the Tampa Bay area.

But if they move, where would they go?

What's a market currently without an MLB team that could support one? It doesn't seem to me like there are that many.

North Carolina (Raleigh/Durham or Charlotte)? Tennessee (Nashville or Memphis)?

Would San Juan, PR be a viable option?

#2 Saul Goodman

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:36 PM

The Yankees would never allow it, but i'd love to see them move to Brooklyn.

#3 righty8383

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:53 PM

Get a team back in Montreal. A competent owner and a new stadium (if Montreal builds one) could bring a pretty good fanbase.

#4 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:52 AM

The Yankees would never allow it, but i'd love to see them move to Brooklyn.


This.

#5 nicksaviking

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:37 AM

Too bad for the few fans in the Tampa area. It certainly does seem like the St. Pete Mayor/City councel would rather they leave then let them move to the more profitable city of Tampa. Those cities must have some sort of animosity, I'd like to think if the Twins gave Minneapolis two options, we leave the state or move to St. Paul, Minneapolis would concede and allow the move across the river.

Portland OR has always been discussed as a relocation target in the past but I'm sure the Mariners would put up a fight. Tennessee seems like the logical fit, they'd be taking territory away from St. Louis, Atlanta and Cincinatti so it's not as though any one team has a strangle hold on the region. Easy compromise.

Edited by nicksaviking, 25 January 2013 - 11:38 AM.


#6 old nurse

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:18 AM

As TV becomes a larger source of revenue then you would have to look at a market that could bring in the numbers to make the money. Tampa is at 13, Portland 22. Charlotte 24, Rahliegh/Durham is close and is 27. Atlanta would not be happy with the latter. Florida just does not seem to be interested in regular season baseball. 20 thousand a game in Tampa. Close to 30000 were coming to the dome to watch the same level of play. Miami is a different argument for attendance. They need to figure out they need to sustain winning to build a fan base.

Edited by old nurse, 25 January 2013 - 11:23 AM.


#7 Brandon

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:19 AM

Van Couver.
maybe Austin/ SanAntonio Texas (there are lots of businesses in Austin)
New York City/ across the river in New Jersey
Tri City area in North Carolina

#8 Kwak

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

Or how about what is done in Soccer where there is a relegation league for those teams that didn't win enough? Every year a couple of teams change--bottom two from the premier and top two from relegation.

#9 Fatt Crapps

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:53 AM

Oh man, San Juan would be awesome.

#10 Cap'n Piranha

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:56 AM

I think a possible option is honestly contraction. Tampa Bay clearly doesn't have the support to maintain a franchise, and Kansas City isn't exactly crushing it either. Eliminate those two, move the Brewers back to the AL, and you have two 14 team leagues. Top 4 teams from each league make the playoffs, no divisions. You play 9 games against every other league opponent, 2 against each team in the other league, and then 3 each against 3 designated rivals (for the Twins it could be Sox, Tigers, Brewers. Yankees would be Red Sox, Mets, and maybe Phillies). That's 154 games a year, you strengthen the talent pool, and you have a (mostly) balanced schedule, so the East Coast teams can't whine about tougher schedules.

#11 nicksaviking

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:10 PM

So MLB is just going to tell KC to suck it and close up shop? Dispite being terrible for basically two decades, they aren't in the bottom 5 in attendance under any metric. Contraction isn't an option, unlike 2000, when baseball was still struggling to recover from the strike. Baseball once again is very popular, there will be plenty of places clamoring for the Rays if they officially let it be known they are free agents.

#12 righty8383

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

Yeah, no chance contraction happens. Even if it did it would not involve the Royals. They have a strong fanbase but little reason to show up at the park. If KC ever gets a winning team, you will see just how big the Royals are in the Greater KC area. Oakland would be a better candidate. But again, contraction aint happening

#13 Teflon

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:58 PM

Monterrey, Mexico would seem to be a possibility as their Mexican League team attendance surpasses any American minor league team's. Also, they would virtually become a national team as opposed to a regional team so would have great TV and licensing potential. They already play in a 27,000 seat facility (below) so could put in a few extra outfield seats to easily expand to 33,000 - 35,000 seats.

Attached File  monterrey.jpg   94.7KB   3 downloads

Edited by Teflon, 25 January 2013 - 01:07 PM.
added picture link


#14 drivlikejehu

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:31 PM

It really is a location problem; a well-sited stadium could draw OK in that area. Baseball doesn't want to pull out of a market that size. Oakland seems to be a bigger mess.

#15 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:08 PM

Some interesting ideas.

Going back to the days of 3 teams in NYC? That would be cool, but I don't think it would happen.

Montreal is a thought. At 4 million people, it's twice the size of the US metro areas mentioned.

Nashville seems like a strong choice, Olney has been tweeting about that. Seems like a big enough market that is in enough of a gap for any existing team to object to too strongly.

PR and Mexico? Depending on how far out we're talking, MLB may be ready for that.

#16 John Bonnes

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:21 PM

I just looked up the biggest TV markets, since that seems to be a major source of revenue. I'm surprised to find Tampa-St. Pete is 13th. That's two ABOVE Mpls-St. Paul.

The biggest one without a team is #19 - Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne. I can't imagine the Marlins would be thrilled with that, but it makes some sense. Orlando could definitely build them a stadium, I would think.

And right after them is Portland, which has a pretty successful AAA team.

It's an interesting list. I think the smallest is Milwaukee at #35. New Orleans is #53. They'd make an interesting choice.

Right after that is Sacramento, who is about to lose a basketball team. (Which, BTW, is one ahead of St. Louis?)

#17 Thrylos

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:44 PM

I just looked up the biggest TV markets, since that seems to be a major source of revenue. I'm surprised to find Tampa-St. Pete is 13th. That's two ABOVE Mpls-St. Paul.

The biggest one without a team is #19 - Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne. I can't imagine the Marlins would be thrilled with that, but it makes some sense. Orlando could definitely build them a stadium, I would think.

And right after them is Portland, which has a pretty successful AAA team.

It's an interesting list. I think the smallest is Milwaukee at #35. New Orleans is #53. They'd make an interesting choice.

Right after that is Sacramento, who is about to lose a basketball team. (Which, BTW, is one ahead of St. Louis?)



I think that baseball market and the TV market do not correlate that much. Got to look at the demographics. Orlando has no problem supporting an NBA team and would probably be a better choice than Tampa for an MLB team as well. Tampa/St.Pete has a lot of retirees compared to places like Orlando (and the Cities), which makes it a bad sports market. Plus there is something else about Florida that makes it really different than most places in the country: Most people in FL are from some place else and they still support their original home teams.

Wonder if the RTP area in NC can support an MLB team. The demographics are about right. Isn't that where Pohlad and Ryan wanted to move the Twins?
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#18 Thrylos

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:46 PM

PR and Mexico? Depending on how far out we're talking, MLB may be ready for that.


But are the players and their families?
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#19 jokin

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:04 PM

I just looked up the biggest TV markets, since that seems to be a major source of revenue. I'm surprised to find Tampa-St. Pete is 13th. That's two ABOVE Mpls-St. Paul.

The biggest one without a team is #19 - Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne. I can't imagine the Marlins would be thrilled with that, but it makes some sense. Orlando could definitely build them a stadium, I would think.


This. Tampa Bay has already played a couple of series at Disney Wide World of Sports. Presumably, that stadium could be readily upgraded to major league standards and/or another stadium built on or near Disneyworld premises.

#20 Thrylos

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:30 PM

This. Tampa Bay has already played a couple of series at Disney Wide World of Sports. Presumably, that stadium could be readily upgraded to major league standards and/or another stadium built on or near Disneyworld premises.


That is more realistic. The DWWS is a real money maker for Disney and ESPN and I just don't think they will let it go.

There is a large huge open air stadium in Orlando that is empty (other than a single football game a season and some concerts) and is scheduled to receive a $175 million facelift in 2014. Can Citrus Bowl host baseball games? Probably. And the experience will probably be better than Tropicana, other that the fact that the area around Citrus Bowl is not that great. Problem with having a ballpark around Disney is that the major roads around Orlando are crazy busy and it will be a pain to get there.
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#21 Pius Jefferson

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:52 PM

How about the Rays move to Miami and get the new stadium, and the Marlins relocate. I think there's better baseball markets for either team, but the new ballpark in Miami isn't going away. Give them the better team and let another city with real owners run the Marlins.

#22 darin617

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:04 PM

I have a very interesting idea that might be acceptable for everyone.

1. Tampa moves to Minnesota.
2. Minnesota moves to Montreal. The Pohlad sons also leave and a new owner takes over in MN, the team name Twins would stay here and the Expos are reborn.
3. Miami gets one last chance to keep baseball in Florida with new ownership.

#23 Jim Crikket

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

I just looked up the biggest TV markets, since that seems to be a major source of revenue. I'm surprised to find Tampa-St. Pete is 13th. That's two ABOVE Mpls-St. Paul.

The biggest one without a team is #19 - Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne. I can't imagine the Marlins would be thrilled with that, but it makes some sense. Orlando could definitely build them a stadium, I would think.

And right after them is Portland, which has a pretty successful AAA team.


I think Portland actually lost their AAA team due to lack of support. I think I recall reading that they turned their ballpark in to a soccer stadium and they sold the team to someone who moved it to the southwest somewhere.
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#24 johnnydakota

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:45 PM

Monterrey, Mexico would seem to be a possibility as their Mexican League team attendance surpasses any American minor league team's. Also, they would virtually become a national team as opposed to a regional team so would have great TV and licensing potential. They already play in a 27,000 seat facility (below) so could put in a few extra outfield seats to easily expand to 33,000 - 35,000 seats.
mi gusto = i =)
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#25 johnnydakota

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

zap north dakota ....after a few more 90 loss seasons zap would have more fans attending then minneapolis

#26 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:32 AM

I just looked up the biggest TV markets, since that seems to be a major source of revenue. I'm surprised to find Tampa-St. Pete is 13th. That's two ABOVE Mpls-St. Paul.

The biggest one without a team is #19 - Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne. I can't imagine the Marlins would be thrilled with that, but it makes some sense. Orlando could definitely build them a stadium, I would think.

And right after them is Portland, which has a pretty successful AAA team.

It's an interesting list. I think the smallest is Milwaukee at #35. New Orleans is #53. They'd make an interesting choice.

Right after that is Sacramento, who is about to lose a basketball team. (Which, BTW, is one ahead of St. Louis?)


---That is an interesting list, but metro area market and potential viewing audience are not the same thing. Certainly, the Twins viewing audience extends well beyond the Twin Cities metro area.

In Sacramento, the potential viewing audience probably does not extend much beyond that with 2 teams in the SF Bay Area.

In Nashville, they could become more the TN state team, kind of like the Twins in MN. So their potential TV audience includes not only Nashville but the whole state, which has 3 other cities on that list (Memphis, Knoxville, Chattanooga).

The Orlando thing makes sense, but I have a feeling that if the Rays relocate, it will be out of the state of Florida.

#27 righty8383

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:41 AM

Yeah, if the Rays move, it would seem foolish to have them move to another Florida city. Honestly,ML baseball doesn't belong in Florida. Both Miami and Tampa have proven this. The state is good for spring training and minor league ball but not ML. I would say they should move the Marlins as well but with that new stadium, which was a complete waste of money, moving them is not an option. Montreal would be the most logical choice.

#28 kab21

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

A lot of possibilities although most have issues and drawbacks. My sentimental side likes the Expos. I've always like Portland and NC for potential sports teams also.

Montreal
Vancouver
NC
TN
Portland
SLC
New Orleans
New Jersey
Las Vegas
A 3rd Texas team
OKC
Sacramento

#29 biggentleben

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:30 PM

I know this may surprise folks based on my personal team alliance, but I would be all in on the idea of a team in North Carolina. There's a very intense baseball fan base there. Yes, they're typically Braves fans right now, but you'd be surprised how mixed the state is. It's akin to South Dakota - yes, the Twins are most popular, but they don't dominate the market like you would figure based on geography. Plus, to me, the biggest benefit to my team is that messing with their broadcast area may be reason to renegotiate the TV deal for the Braves, widely considered the worst team TV deal in professional sports.
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#30 Kobs

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

I thought I read that the Rays are obligated to play at Tropicana until 2027.