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Article: Does Ben Revere’s Departure Portent Justin Morneau Trade?

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45 replies to this topic

#1 John Bonnes

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:55 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...n-Morneau-Trade

#2 Dave T

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:14 PM

Other teams are going to try to get us to sell low. If Ryan learns nothing else from the Revere trade, it's "sell high". I don't want Morneau to go anywhere, but if you've gotta trade him, then wait until July and hope he is ahead of Cabrera by then on the Triple Crown stats.

#3 jacku641

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

Here's another scenario that says they don't trade him. What if Morneau tells the Twins that this is it. On advice of doctors and at the request of his wife he's going to retire after this season and would like to finish where he started. I have no reason to believe that this is true, but I'm just saying...

#4 Brandon

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:24 PM

2 year 20-24 million extension after spring training. Morneau retires a Twin. I don't see him getting traded.

#5 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:26 PM

I think we keep him til the deadline.

#6 Seth Stohs

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:28 PM

yeah, we're talking a lot about CF with Benson/Hicks/Mastroianni... however, Arcia is probably the most big-league ready of the bunch, and if RF were to open up, I think they'd be pretty comfortable going to him.

#7 tjsyam921

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:32 PM

If the Twins had a good lead off hitter (Hicks?), a combination of these 3 for $30 million Shawn Marcum, Joe Saunders, Kevin Correia, Brett Myers, Brandon McCarthy, Jair Jurrjens to go with Worley and Diamond for our rotation. I see no reason to get rid of Morny since we should be able to compete with that rotation and line up if Plouffe plays well and someone steps up at both 2nd and short.

#8 Petey Javo

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:39 PM

Since we are building for 2014 I would have a pretty high price tag for Morneau right now as his value can easily go up with a few hot hitting months. This guy was going blow for blow with miguel for the triple crown not that long ago. Plus I think there is a legit chance of getting some a discount if we choose to extend him due to his connections here. It may be risky but that is what we need right now as many affordable high risk high upside guys to maximize our odds of hit the proverbial home run.

#9 ericchri

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:41 PM

yeah, we're talking a lot about CF with Benson/Hicks/Mastroianni... however, Arcia is probably the most big-league ready of the bunch, and if RF were to open up, I think they'd be pretty comfortable going to him.


Arcia is closer than Hicks? Man I want more information on these guys. While Arcia looks like a better overall hitter, I thought he still had a loop in his swing or something like that? Or am I misremembering that? Most of what I've read is that both probably aren't quite ready yet, but I thought Hicks was supposedly the best defensive OF (including best arm) in the Twins system, and I can live with struggles at the plate if he plays stellar defense. I just don't know anything about Arcia as a defensive player.

#10 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:49 PM

[quote name='ericchri'][quote name='Seth Stohs']yeah, we're talking a lot about CF with Benson/Hicks/Mastroianni... however, Arcia is probably the most big-league ready of the bunch, and if RF were to open up, I think they'd be pretty comfortable going to him.[/QUOTE]

Arcia is closer than Hicks? Man I want more information on these guys. While Arcia looks like a better overall hitter, I thought he still had a loop in his swing or something like that? Or am I misremembering that? Most of what I've read is that both probably aren't quite ready yet, but I thought Hicks was supposedly the best defensive OF (including best arm) in the Twins system, and I can live with struggles at the plate if he plays stellar defense. I just don't know anything about Arcia as a defensive player.[/QUOTE]

Hicks, Buxton & Benson are the 3 best, by far, as all have Gold Glove potential.
Arcia has been compared to Jason Kubel---pre knee injury---defensively...if you remember how he was(much more range)

#11 Jeff P

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:09 PM

I think your first point is the one that many here underestimate: it must be pretty frustrating for season ticket holders right now. While I would be in favor of trading Morneau for good price, I can't blame them if they turn down a fair offer in part to keep a recognizable face for the fans.

#12 Oxtung

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:14 PM

Morneau has always seemed to be a better fit for a July trade to me. His salary is much less of a problem at that point and he, hopefully, have another successful half season under his belt. Of course resigning him is still a possibility but if that happens I have to think Parmelee's days are numbered.

#13 BeefMaster

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:35 PM

Maybe this doesn't count because it wasn't a particularly big contract or particularly good prospects, but the Twins have thrown salary relief into a trade before - they picked up most of Brendan Harris' contract when they dumped him on the Orioles in the JJ Hardy trade.

#14 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:39 PM

Morneau has always seemed to be a better fit for a July trade to me. His salary is much less of a problem at that point and he, hopefully, have another successful half season under his belt. Of course resigning him is still a possibility but if that happens I have to think Parmelee's days are numbered.


They still need a DH, and an aging Morneau could spend some time there as well. I'm not against keeping both of them if Mauer ends up catching more and Doumit ends up more as the backup catcher with an occasional start at DH or RF... Parmalee could be an offensive force, and a healthy Morneau most definitely is one.

#15 Oxtung

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

[quote name='diehardtwinsfan'][quote name='Oxtung']Morneau has always seemed to be a better fit for a July trade to me. His salary is much less of a problem at that point and he, hopefully, have another successful half season under his belt. Of course resigning him is still a possibility but if that happens I have to think Parmelee's days are numbered.[/QUOTE]

They still need a DH, and an aging Morneau could spend some time there as well. I'm not against keeping both of them if Mauer ends up catching more and Doumit ends up more as the backup catcher with an occasional start at DH or RF... Parmalee could be an offensive force, and a healthy Morneau most definitely is one.[/QUOTE]

Mauer is 30 years old this year so I guess I see him out from behind the plate within the next 2 years. He has guaranteed money through 2018 and I have to think the the Twins are concerned about him holding up that long, I know I would be concerned if he stays behind the dish that whole time. If anyone wants to do some research it would make an interesting blog topic on when great catchers have started to move from behind the plate and how that affected their career length and quality. If Morneau gets another, let's say 3 year contract, that locks up DH and 1B. I just think Parmelee isn't going to stick long term in the OF given the prospects moving up in the next year. I guess maybe the Twins could trade Willingham and leave Parmelee in the OF with 2/3 of Benson/Hicks/Arcia depending on who pans out.

#16 savvyspy

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:57 PM

I think your first point is the one that many here underestimate: it must be pretty frustrating for season ticket holders right now. While I would be in favor of trading Morneau for good price, I can't blame them if they turn down a fair offer in part to keep a recognizable face for the fans.


What's frustrating for this 8 year season ticket holder is back to back 90 loss seasons and being told we should keep a $14 million "ambassador" rather than trade him for young talent that will ultimately lead the team back to 90 WIN seasons.

Unfortunately this team can lose 90 games just as easily with Morneau as the can without him. I'd like to at least see a payoff down the line. There was NOTHING ryan could do to make this team a factor in 2013 anyway. They have taken the exact correct approach.

#17 Kwak

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:24 PM

There is a "winter fever" if you will where GM's make speculative trades and free agent signings for the purpose of substantially improving their team--just witness the PHL/Twins trade. Morneau hasn't been (publicly) dangled, but it is no secret to other GMs that the Twins are rebuilding--they will have inquired about Morneau. There are multiple teams thinking of Josh Hamilton. But when he signs--the losers will resort to Plan B--and I would expect serious inquiries about Morneau's availability and "cost". The iron is hot and will get white hot soon for Morneau. Just ask youself how excited you were when you read that Revere was traded--for major league pitching! and more! PHL is excited about Revere. Believe me if Morneau is traded there will be major buzz in his new team--and these guys will gladly (over)pay! July? Pitchers/catchers/salary dumps--the time is right after Hamilton signs.

#18 Jim H

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:30 PM

While I wouldn't write off 2013 yet, it is clear that even with good performances from whoever is picked up to fill out the rotation, a lot of other things will have to go very well for the Twins to be competitive. Ryan seemed to indicate this afternoon on MLB Network that he is not looking to trade anyone else. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

I kind of think that the Twins really need to look at Parmelee and Plouffe. They need to show they can actually hit for more than a month during the season. Plouffe needs to show he can play 3B. If Parmelee is adequate in RF well that helps as well. Keeping Morneau around for a few more seasons wouldn't be a bad thing. I really doubt if Parmelee or Plouffe are ever going to be true middle of the order bats. If Arcia is going to be, it isn't to going be immediately , even if he is nearly ready to play in the majors.

Whether the Twins are contenders or not in 2013, I think they have to determine whether Dozier and/or Floriman can actually be big league starters. Quite possibly by the middle of the season the Twins might know who they want to keep out of their secondary pieces. It will make it easier to decide whether or not to trade Willingham or Morneau. And perhaps even more importantly, what they need to target in return.

#19 ashburyjohn

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:34 PM

What's frustrating for this 8 year season ticket holder is back to back 90 loss seasons


Do you think this is the floor for where the 2013 season could go, if they do a complete fire sale? How does 110 losses grab you?

#20 ashburyjohn

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:35 PM

If Ryan learns nothing else from the Revere trade, it's "sell high".


Yeah, Terry Ryan's OJT is just about complete. :)

Edited by ashburyjohn, 06 December 2012 - 06:57 PM.


#21 jmlease1

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:12 PM

I think it's hard to know on Morneau, but I would guess no trade.

If the Twins manage to sign a pitcher like Dempster or Marcum to shore up the rotation further, add an additional vet for the back end/insurance, suddenly the rotation looks solid with Marcum/Dempster, Diamond, Worley, Gibson, Hendriks/De Vries/Walters/Waldrop/FA #2. It's one thing to go in the season needing 2 guys to step up from that last pack, another to be looking for 1.

Honestly, they should still have money to look for help at 2B/SS to have insurance against Dozier/Florimon not being ready/MLB-quality AND get a quality 3B option in case Plouffe was a fluke. Carroll slides back into the utility position he's best suited for and suddenly you've got a very nice bullpen coupled with a decent rotation and a solid lineup...why not ride that team, see how they do with a healthy Justin Morneau in the middle of the lineup (and hopefully after a full healthy year, no longer bailing out on pitches from LHers). If it doesn't work, you can look at dealing him at the deadline, but that's a team you can sell to the public as worth watching.

The rotation still wouldn't be top-end, but there'd be 4 pitchers who would qualify as being reasonable #2-#3 starters. And a massive improvement over last season. Offensive drop-off is likely in CF and LF (Willingham will likely regress a little due to age), but there's potential improvement (overall) for RF, 3B and 1B. Unlikely the offense at SS & 2B can get much worse! So why couldn't the offense be better?

No need to rush Arcia at that point. Progress in 2013 is a good idea to set up 2014, from a marketing standpoint...and from a team standpoint. Isn't it better to stagger out your rookie development a little if you can?

#22 Chris in Osaka

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:39 PM

Time to double down on the future and move both Morneau and Willingham. The team can't compete in 2013 and shouldn't cling to any such illusions.

#23 kab21

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:45 PM

I don't understand what the Revere trade has to do with Morneau. he's just as available as he was before. The reason that I don't think Morneau will get traded (in the offseason) is that I don't think a team will trade a good prospect for him (even if the Twins pay half). If they do then he is gone.

#24 Joe

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:05 PM

Hypothetical......

Would you trade Justin Morneau for Brian Matusz and PTBNL - Kevin Gausmann?

I think I would.

#25 kab21

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:29 PM

Morneau might not even get you Matusz. Gausman is completely off the table for the Twins.

#26 Top Gun

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:37 PM

I think the trading is about done! It's time for the buying to start!

#27 AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:34 PM

Morneau might not even get you Matusz. Gausman is completely off the table for the Twins.


And you know what? I wouldnt mind getting Brian Matusz. Gausman is untouchable exactly right.

#28 kab21

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:40 PM

I'll pass on Matusz for Morneau. All indications are that he's a lefty RP'er now. Arrieta or even Britton OTOH are more interesting.

#29 jokin

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

Morneau might not even get you Matusz. Gausman is completely off the table for the Twins.


Gausman is probably unreachable, but what happens to the Nat's Desperation Meter if they lose Adam LaRoche? There are still enough quality prospects in the Nats org to get a good multi-player deal if they really hit the panic button.

#30 kab21

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

Gausman is probably unreachable, but what happens to the Nat's Desperation Meter if they lose Adam LaRoche? There are still enough quality prospects in the Nats org to get a good multi-player deal if they really hit the panic button.


Are you mixing up the O's and Nats on purpose or accidentally? The Nats already have Mike Morse to play 1B and the O's have a good offense but pretty weak pitching so I don't understand why they would be trading a pitching prospect for a hitter.

Regardless of any desperation meter a guy like Gausman won't be traded for Morneau. And not Willingham either.