Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

The Store

Recent Blogs

Photo

Gammons: Red Sox willing to take on all of Mauer's contract

boston red sox joe mauer peter gammons twinkietown.com
  • Please log in to reply
70 replies to this topic

#1 Parker Hageman

Parker Hageman

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 1,250 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:48 AM

Jesse Lund at TwinkieTown.com says that Peter Gammons told MLB Network that the Red Sox were willing to acquire Joe Mauer -- including his entire salary.

#2 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,413 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:54 AM

Well, yeah. There's no way in hell a team trades a franchise catcher that OPSes around .850 with a .410 OBP and eats part of the contract.

I'm not a fan of trading Mauer (AT ALL) but there's a small part of me that would love to see him tear it up in Fenway. He might be a perennial 1.000 OPS guy in that park.

#3 gunnarthor

gunnarthor

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,705 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:56 AM

Still not happening.

#4 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,758 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:57 AM

At first I thought this might be a good idea. But since it is clear they refuse to sign legit free agents, I am now opposed to this idea.

#5 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,413 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:05 AM

At first I thought this might be a good idea. But since it is clear they refuse to sign legit free agents, I am now opposed to this idea.


Given this market, they're not going to get somebody as good (much less better) than Mauer for $23m. It doesn't make any sense to trade the guy because all you have to do after that is go overpay somebody else.

#6 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,758 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:08 AM

I had hoped they would use that money, combined with the other money they have already freed up, to sign two or three of the tier 1 pitchers. But since it looks like even with tens of millions to spend, and having Mauer, they will not even sign a tier 2 guy.....

#7 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,321 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:13 AM

Good idea, get that payroll down around 60m so Terry and the Pohlads are happy. We still have Drew to step in Mauers spot!
It would appear that Mauer will be past his prime before the Twins can contend again so if the Sux offer Bogaerts, Barnes and Webster for him do it. We can lose 90+ games with him or without him.
This comment brought to you from the Rosedale Mall studio by Hamm's Beer, brewed in the land of sky blue waters.

#8 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,013 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:15 AM

Well, yeah. There's no way in hell a team trades a franchise catcher that OPSes around .850 with a .410 OBP and eats part of the contract.

I'm not a fan of trading Mauer (AT ALL) but there's a small part of me that would love to see him tear it up in Fenway. He might be a perennial 1.000 OPS guy in that park.


I agree. What's the single-season doubles record? I seriously think he would break it in Monster doubles alone.

#9 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 4,453 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:20 AM

Its kind of interesting that Boston seems to really really really really really want Mauer. I'm honestly not sure why. They were horrible last year and should be thinking rebuild, instead they want an expensive contract.

I'm not a huge fan of trading Mauer, and if I were Ryan, I'd be insisting they gave up the farm to get him too... that's about the only way I trade Mauer. The PR hit in the short term would be bad, but for the right prospects, this team would be setup very well come 2015.

#10 twinsnorth49

twinsnorth49

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 3,679 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:25 AM

Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent.

#11 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,758 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:27 AM

Twinsnorth showing his age.....

#12 TwinsFanInPhilly

TwinsFanInPhilly

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 133 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:58 PM

FWIW from Twitter

MLB Network Radio@MLBNetworkRadio Terry Ryan, Twins General Manager, tells us that they will listen to all offers on Joe Mauer & Justin Morneau. They need pitching

#13 Top Gun

Top Gun

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,253 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:06 PM

Peter Gammons = Mr. Red Sox Dream on!

#14 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,011 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:09 PM

FWIW from Twitter

MLB Network Radio@MLBNetworkRadio Terry Ryan, Twins General Manager, tells us that they will listen to all offers on Joe Mauer & Justin Morneau. They need pitching


Well yeah, it would be dumb not to listen to all offers.

But to get Mauer I think there are very few players they could take in return and not be absolutely roasted by the media/fans. It's not going to happen.

#15 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,758 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:10 PM

It was a great use of a classic line.....

#16 TwinsFanInPhilly

TwinsFanInPhilly

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 133 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:12 PM

[quote name='SpiritofVodkaDave'][quote name='TwinsFanInPhilly']FWIW from Twitter

MLB Network Radio@MLBNetworkRadio Terry Ryan, Twins General Manager, tells us that they will listen to all offers on Joe Mauer & Justin Morneau. They need pitching[/QUOTE]

Well yeah, it would be dumb not to listen to all offers.

But to get Mauer I think there are very few players they could take in return and not be absolutely roasted by the media/fans. It's not going to happen.[/QUOTE]

Not sure where anyone (including me) said it was going to happen.

#17 E. Andrew

E. Andrew

    Member

  • Members
  • 94 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:13 PM

If we traded Mauer we'd essentially be admitting that 'No, the Twins never want to own a ~$20 million player.' Because he's worth the money. So financially, I guess if you can find a reasonable alternative. whatever. But if there's ever a ~$20 million dollar player that - specifically the Twins - should own, this is the one. The Pohlads have made it clear that half of revenue will be spent on players, so the money will be there, and a large chunk of it should go to Mauer. Fans love him (and they create the revenue) and he's worth it.

#18 Oxtung

Oxtung

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,430 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:14 PM

I think many of you are quick to dismiss this idea. While trading Mauer would certainly hurt in the short term it might be the best long term option. We aren't going to be competitive in 2013 (unless TR all of a sudden decides to spend on FA). We are going to be a transitioning team in 2014. 2015 we might be competitive but 2016+ is looking potentially very strong.

In 2013 & '14 Mauer is going to be at his peak but will be wasted on bad teams. By the time 2015 rolls around he will be 32 years old. He probably will be out from behind the plate full time and his hitting could very well be starting to slide. Now you've got years 32-35 of Mauer while you are actually good but he is not (this is all relative of course, he could still put up OK numbers but probably not near his MVP days that he is getting paid for).

The real kicker here is the payroll flexibility. We will be paying Mauer $23M for what almost certainly won't be $23M worth of production. We will have so much money wrapped up in Mauer that we won't have much money to go out and sign (or re-sign) that piece we need to put us over the top.

While in the short term trading Mauer would be a big PR hit in the long term the payroll flexibility combined with hopefully a very competitive team in 2015+ might making it beneficial.

#19 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 8,792 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:19 PM

The Red Sox may pay the entire salary but the entire salary would lessen the return in my opinion... And if the return is lessened... The reason to move Mauer is also lessened.

If Money is freed up in a Mauer deal... In my opinion... There is nothing worthwhile to spend it on at the moment. We got enough money to spend on what is currently out there with Joes salary factored in.

if the Red Sox want to take the salary and give us a real nice package of players... Goodbye Joe... I'll miss you... I've loved watching you play.

#20 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,413 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:19 PM

We will be paying Mauer $23M for what almost certainly won't be $23M worth of production.


Given what we've seen in the past few weeks, I very much think the Twins will be getting $23m of production from Mauer. Guys like BJ Upton are getting $15m a year now. Jose Reyes goes from $10m to $22m in 2014. Greinke, a borderline #1 at best, looks to approach $20m a year. Sanchez, who isn't as good as Greinke, is asking for $16-17m.

I'm perfectly content with Mauer at $23m, provided he doesn't completely break down.

FWIW, you can add the 2012 WAR of Greinke AND Sanchez together and they're about the same value as Mauer by himself.

#21 gunnarthor

gunnarthor

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,705 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:20 PM

I think many of you are quick to dismiss this idea. While trading Mauer would certainly hurt in the short term it might be the best long term option. We aren't going to be competitive in 2013 (unless TR all of a sudden decides to spend on FA). We are going to be a transitioning team in 2014. 2015 we might be competitive but 2016+ is looking potentially very strong.

In 2013 & '14 Mauer is going to be at his peak but will be wasted on bad teams. By the time 2015 rolls around he will be 32 years old. He probably will be out from behind the plate full time and his hitting could very well be starting to slide. Now you've got years 32-35 of Mauer while you are actually good but he is not (this is all relative of course, he could still put up OK numbers but probably not near his MVP days that he is getting paid for).

The real kicker here is the payroll flexibility. We will be paying Mauer $23M for what almost certainly won't be $23M worth of production. We will have so much money wrapped up in Mauer that we won't have much money to go out and sign (or re-sign) that piece we need to put us over the top.

While in the short term trading Mauer would be a big PR hit in the long term the payroll flexibility combined with hopefully a very competitive team in 2015+ might making it beneficial.


First, Mauer isn't going to waive his no-trade clause so it's probably a moot point. But look at this years FA class. Where would the Twins spend the money in the future? They might lock up young prospects like Sano on deals that buy out their first few years of free agency but if they trade Mauer, I think it would mean that they are set at payrolls around 70-80m. I don't think they'd ever. use FA to sign a guy like Anibal Sanchez

#22 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,628 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:20 PM

However generally when a team says they are willing to eat all of a salary, the implication is that they will do so in exchange for not including top prospects and for Mauer, I'd want them all.

The Twins are most likely going to be relying on the cheap guys on the farm for most of the next decade, unless they suddenly decide to get in on Greinke or THE top ace each of the next half dozen years, payroll shouldn't be a concern going forward Mauer's contract included.

#23 wavedog

wavedog

    Member

  • Members
  • 83 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:21 PM

Boston has 3 catchers on their roster already - Salty, Ross and Napoli - not sure they would need another even platooning those at other positions, but if we did deal (which won;t happen and I am not advocating) I am sure we would get one of those back.

#24 greengoblinrulz

greengoblinrulz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,759 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:24 PM

For me, Boston is willing to eat ALL the contract makes me listen BUT then it still goes down to getting acceptable value in players/prospects......3-4 of them. If THAT is what Boston will do, lets do it.....if not, thanks but no thanks

#25 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,792 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:30 PM

Boston has 3 catchers on their roster already - Salty, Ross and Napoli - not sure they would need another even platooning those at other positions, but if we did deal (which won;t happen and I am not advocating) I am sure we would get one of those back.


I think the Sox already are projecting Napoli for some 1B duties. And they have talked about moving Salty. He would be a good get in a package deal, along with their top MI prospect and two SPs, a vet and prospect. Hey, after this last trade and the Red Sox's desperate need for relevancy again, anything's possible.

#26 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,758 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:33 PM

Payroll flexibility only matters if you are going to spend money.....still have not seen that willingness.

#27 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,792 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:33 PM

For me, Boston is willing to eat ALL the contract makes me listen BUT then it still goes down to getting acceptable value in players/prospects......3-4 of them. If THAT is what Boston will do, lets do it.....if not, thanks but no thanks


Let's see how desperate they are. How about their top 2 MI prospects (who are clearly better, now as minor league prospects, than what the Twins plan on playing in 2013), Salty and Lester?

#28 Big City

Big City

    Member

  • Members
  • 36 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

If the Sox offered up Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Boegarts, Barnes and Webster you'd have to listen, right???

#29 Oxtung

Oxtung

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,430 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:00 PM

[quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='Oxtung']We will be paying Mauer $23M for what almost certainly won't be $23M worth of production.[/QUOTE]

Given what we've seen in the past few weeks, I very much think the Twins will be getting $23m of production from Mauer. Guys like BJ Upton are getting $15m a year now. Jose Reyes goes from $10m to $22m in 2014. Greinke, a borderline #1 at best, looks to approach $20m a year. Sanchez, who isn't as good as Greinke, is asking for $16-17m.

I'm perfectly content with Mauer at $23m, provided he doesn't completely break down.

FWIW, you can add the 2012 WAR of Greinke AND Sanchez together and they're about the same value as Mauer by himself.[/QUOTE]

The Twins very well might get $23M of production from Mauer this year and perhaps next year. Maybe even 2015. But how about when Joe is 33, 34, 35 years old? Those are the years we are going to be competitive. Those are the years we could really use that $23M to go out and get that [insert position of need] we are missing. Those are also the years Joe is going to be getting worse and worse. His value will be dropping, especially since he very well might be DH'ing at that point, but his salary will remain $23M.

The Twins are going to continue to lose fans with or without Joe Mauer on the team. That is what happens when you're bad. Unless TR makes a big splash in the FA pitching market we're going to be bad this year and quite possibly next year as well. Those same fans will return when a good product is on the field as shown by the early 2000's attendance resurgence. Joe Mauer isn't going to save this team from poor attendance numbers. But he very well could prevent this team from making a move in 2017 when the Twins are competitive.

So the question ultimately comes down to are a few thousand fans a game in 2013 &2014 worth $23M when the Twins are competitive again? Keep in mind the Twins could use that $23M to go out and get a big name splash to replace Joe Mauer. How does Ryan Dempster AND Shaun Marcum sound?

#30 johnnydakota

johnnydakota

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 1,498 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:06 PM

[quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='mike wants wins']At first I thought this might be a good idea. But since it is clear they refuse to sign legit free agents, I am now opposed to this idea.[/QUOTE]

Given this market, they're not going to get somebody as good (much less better) than Mauer for $23m. It doesn't make any sense to trade the guy because all you have to do after that is go overpay somebody else.[/QUOTE]

With salary inflation this year and next, i expect joes contract will be looked at differently