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Bears vs Vikings

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#1 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:35 PM

This might actually be the biggest game in Minnesota sports in over 2 years, which is exciting and depressing at the same time.

A couple weeks ago it didn't look like the Vikes had much of a chance @Chicago, the only things they had going for them was coming off a bye with Chicago coming off two good opponents and a short week from a MNF game (out west)

However the Bears looked freaking terrible last night. If Cutler is out of the game, not only the Vikes have a chance to win I actually think they have a very good chance to win.

Other then Tillman the Bears defense isn't the greatest in the world, if you can just limit the turnovers the Vikings should be fine (especially with Campbell as the QB) The Bears O-Line is atrocious, and their run defense has some serious holes. 150 from Peterson shouldn't be a suprise.

#2 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:28 PM

This play calling is horse****. They have thrown every single 1st down.

#3 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:25 PM

1 step forward 19 steps back for Ponder.

He isn't even close to the answer. Hopefully we can draft Landry Jones.

#4 Reginald Maudling's Shin

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

I think they need about 3 more o-linemen before they should consider reaching for another "franchise" QB.

#5 TheLeviathan

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:28 PM

This is not an offensive line problem. They aren't picking up the blitz well, but the issue his his pocket presence is absolutely awful. He runs into the defensive lineman in a natural pocket. He springs out when he doesn't need to. He isn't able to be even as evasive as Cutler.

Anyone who wants to excuse Ponder based on the line should watch what Cutler did today. When he broke away from pressure he looked to throw downfield and make a play. Ponder looks like a scared rabbit. And sometimes he scares himself even when there is plenty of time.

#6 Willihammer

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:34 PM

Why is Musgrave calling for Ponder to line up in the shotgun on 3rd and short or 4th and short in the red zone? I counted 3 times where Ponder did that and all three were incompletions. It was the same in Washington, where we settled for 3 field goals instead of TD's in the red zone. It seems like it is a broadcast to the linebackers, "Hey, don't worry about the best player on the field, AP. Cover the tight ends and wide outs instead."

#7 luke829

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:46 PM

This is not an offensive line problem. They aren't picking up the blitz well, but the issue his his pocket presence is absolutely awful. He runs into the defensive lineman in a natural pocket. He springs out when he doesn't need to. He isn't able to be even as evasive as Cutler.

Anyone who wants to excuse Ponder based on the line should watch what Cutler did today. When he broke away from pressure he looked to throw downfield and make a play. Ponder looks like a scared rabbit. And sometimes he scares himself even when there is plenty of time.


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#8 Reginald Maudling's Shin

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:04 AM

Ponder looks like he has no clue what to do in the pocket but the o-line is still terrible. These are not mutually exclusive statements.

#9 TheLeviathan

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:31 PM

Ponder looks like he has no clue what to do in the pocket but the o-line is still terrible. These are not mutually exclusive statements.


Terrible isn't what I see. I see avergae or slightly below. Ponder makes them look worse.

#10 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:06 PM

Yeah the line isn't terrible, its right around average but def an improvement over last year. I mean Peterson is great and all, but you gotta give the online some credit for him leading the league in yards, no?

Lev, thoughts on trying to bring in Alex Smith? Obviously he isn't the ideal franchise Andrew Luck/Aaron Rogers QB everyone would prefer, but Luck seems to be a pretty solid QB.

Hell, if it wasn't for his PR fumbling two punts he very well could have won a super bowl last year. In fact, IMO he has been pretty awesome this year with a 70% COMP and a 104 Passer rating, (61 and 90.07 in 2011 including 6 game winning drives)

Most importantly he doesn't throw a ton of picks and could be the perfect short term QB for this run first offense.

#11 TheLeviathan

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:22 PM

[quote name='SpiritofVodkaDave']Yeah the line isn't terrible, its right around average but def an improvement over last year. I mean Peterson is great and all, but you gotta give the online some credit for him leading the league in yards, no? [/quote]

I would call their run blocking ability very good. This is one of the few times in his career that I can remember Peterson getting 6-7 yards before contact on a consistent basis. They are really blocking well, especially when you consider our ability to complete anything over 10 yards is seemingly impossible. That's a lot of yardage against 8-9 man defensive fronts.

[QUOTE]Lev, thoughts on trying to bring in Alex Smith? Obviously he isn't the ideal franchise Andrew Luck/Aaron Rogers QB everyone would prefer, but Luck seems to be a pretty solid QB.[/QUOTE]t

I wouldn't oppose it but let's face it - we're stuck with Ponder at least one more year and then we'll be addressing it in the draft again. Our cart is hitched to Ponder for at least that long. The upside of that is that the draft this year is shallow in QBs and likely very good in two years. The downside is we continue to waste the career of maybe the best running back of all time. Certainly the best of this generation.

#12 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:54 PM

[quote name='TheLeviathan'][quote name='SpiritofVodkaDave']Yeah the line isn't terrible, its right around average but def an improvement over last year. I mean Peterson is great and all, but you gotta give the online some credit for him leading the league in yards, no? [/QUOTE]

I would call their run blocking ability very good. This is one of the few times in his career that I can remember Peterson getting 6-7 yards before contact on a consistent basis. They are really blocking well, especially when you consider our ability to complete anything over 10 yards is seemingly impossible. That's a lot of yardage against 8-9 man defensive fronts.

[QUOTE]Lev, thoughts on trying to bring in Alex Smith? Obviously he isn't the ideal franchise Andrew Luck/Aaron Rogers QB everyone would prefer, but Luck seems to be a pretty solid QB.[/QUOTE]t

I wouldn't oppose it but let's face it - we're stuck with Ponder at least one more year and then we'll be addressing it in the draft again. Our cart is hitched to Ponder for at least that long. The upside of that is that the draft this year is shallow in QBs and likely very good in two years. The downside is we continue to waste the career of maybe the best running back of all time. Certainly the best of this generation.[/QUOTE]

I dunno man, if Ponder continues to suck it up I think Leslie Fraiser and Speilman start feeling the heat (FWIW: i don't think either should be fired yet, they were given a **** team. Musgrave....yeah he needs to go) I could see them pulling the trigger on bringing in a guy like Smith or Flynn for an honest open competition for the QB spot.

In addition to AP in his prime, you are also going to start wasting Percy in his prime and Jared Allen towards the end of his prime. I know I am a super homer, but I think if we get Alex Smith, and use the draft for more O-line help and maybe a WR we could be looking at a legit contender for 2013. 22 games started or so is enough to find out what Ponder is made of, and plus you can always have him as a backup or whatever if Smith doesn't work out.

#13 Thor

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:56 AM

I posted the Alex Smith question in a different thread but didn't have much action so here is my take.
Alex Smith to me represents the highest level Ponder could achieve. A system QB that doesn't really hurt you but can't rely on him to bring a team back from a hole. He can win quite a bit with a great D and a good running game but for a course of years he will be a 7-10 win QB unless you have the great D and running game. The question could be rephrased to this
"Do the Vikes have the great D and running game to where they could make a serious run with Alex Smith?"

My answer is only if they can add a couple more high enders through this year's draft. That would mean we would have to stink it up the rest of the year to move up and probally have to have someone bite on giving us something for Ponder or Toby to add more picks. Neither of those would bring over a 4th rounder IMHO so there would have to be some creative giving of the future for the now or being able to pick someone up in FA or both.

Now the next question(or maybe the real one) would you rather see this team in contention aka 9-11 wins for the next 4-5 years or do the go big or go home route and have one great chance at a ring and know they will be lucky to win 6 games for the other 3-4 years?

#14 luke829

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:55 PM

I posted the Alex Smith question in a different thread but didn't have much action so here is my take.
Alex Smith to me represents the highest level Ponder could achieve. A system QB that doesn't really hurt you but can't rely on him to bring a team back from a hole. He can win quite a bit with a great D and a good running game but for a course of years he will be a 7-10 win QB unless you have the great D and running game. The question could be rephrased to this
"Do the Vikes have the great D and running game to where they could make a serious run with Alex Smith?"

My answer is only if they can add a couple more high enders through this year's draft. That would mean we would have to stink it up the rest of the year to move up and probally have to have someone bite on giving us something for Ponder or Toby to add more picks. Neither of those would bring over a 4th rounder IMHO so there would have to be some creative giving of the future for the now or being able to pick someone up in FA or both.

Now the next question(or maybe the real one) would you rather see this team in contention aka 9-11 wins for the next 4-5 years or do the go big or go home route and have one great chance at a ring and know they will be lucky to win 6 games for the other 3-4 years?


In regards to your last paragraph, didn't they do something similar a few years back with Bret Farve?
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#15 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:03 PM

Sorry Dave but I think Percy is already gone. We'll bleed it out with a franchise tag, but I think Percy is all but gone as soon as he can be. The team's defense isn't good enough to support a game manager even to a 9-10 win season. They are better off letting this experiment fail badly and force their hand to do the right thing.

#16 mike wants wins

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:28 PM

The Qbs job is to help the team score. IF the "offensive coordinator deluxe" just hands the ball to Peterson on 3rd and 2 and 4th and 2....they would have scored 17 points, on the road, in a game where AP fumbled twice, and the WRs dropped 6-8 balls, against a team that gives up less than 17 points a game on average.

That game was on the WRs and AP and the OC more than on Ponder. Oh, and the OGs are terrible, there is not room for him to step up and throw often.....
Lighten up Francis....

#17 TheLeviathan

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:46 PM

That game was on the WRs and AP and the OC more than on Ponder. Oh, and the OGs are terrible, there is not room for him to step up and throw often.....


.....what? The guards are doing a poor job picking up blitzes but his issues stepping up in the pocket are his "scared bunny" approach more than the line. Watch the greats in the league do it. Watch even the second tier of guys do it. Then watch Ponder. The difference is more than obvious.

#18 Thor

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:23 PM

In regards to your last paragraph, didn't they do something similar a few years back with Bret Farve?


exactly, and like anything there is no gaurentee it works for a chapionship but it is nearly certain that the suck for a while part happens. Very few teams are like the Ravens, Steelers and Pats where they go into every year with a legit chance.

I would rather have a team that is always a 8-10 win projection and hope to catch lightning in a bottle once but I know there are a lot of people who only count championships. I can see both sides but I really don't like the 3-5 win seasons.