Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:00 AM
Posted 08 March 2012 - 01:10 AM
"And we'll see ya tomorrow night!!!!"
Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:31 AM
Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:43 AM
Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:56 AM
Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:23 AM
Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:27 AM
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:49 AM
Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:08 AM
Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:24 AM
The problem is the Twins philosphy. They never sign power hitters or pitchers because these players dont fit Gardy's way of thinking.
I do have problems with the Twins' philosophy is general, but to tell the honest true, twice they drafted the highest power rated prospect in the draft (Parmelee, Travis Harrison) and after Bill Smith took over, they have been drafting power arms as well... Just they are not many power arms and bats in the prospect pool before the draft and those guys usually go on the top 10-15 picks... Even is Sano is 25, he is still the best power prospect in the minors. Age does not make his bat less powerful.
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:30 AM
Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:10 PM
Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:16 PM
I think this is a really good point. But we all have to realize that just being a big league starter doesn't mean the player is a top talent, or even impact player. How many of these guys would be considered potential starters for the Phillies, Tigers, Yankees, Rays, Red Sox, Reds, Brewers, etc, or any of the other first division teams? Maybe Benson, based upon his athletic ability, but that's probably it, and he wouldn't be considered a potential starter until 2013 at the earliest.
jmlease - that's my point... lots of sure-thing guys bust, and if the Twins, in fact, have 4-5 guys who should be big league starters who will start the season in AAA, that's not a bad thing at all... that was really my point.
Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:43 PM
Posted 08 March 2012 - 01:08 PM
I get what you're saying, but to be honest, I don't care if they would start for those other teams. The Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies are the only teams that may be able to afford getting stars at all positions. Any team with a payroll south of $140 million is going to have a few players making league minimum. Playoff and winning teams will need some stars too, and that gets back to the discussion about how the Twins really need to get health and performance from Mauer, Morneau, Span, Liriano and Baker... those are the impact players. I guess my other point is that sometimes these guys that are considered 2nd or 3rd tier prospects by the experts come in and perform very well, above expectations, for 3-5 years when they are most valuable to their teams.
Sure, the 2nd or 3rd tier prospects come in and perform as you would expect a 2nd or 3rd tier player to perform...league average. How many more role players and middle relievers does this team need? I for one don't feel the problem is a lack of talent in the upper minors, it's the lack of impact/first division regular type talent. Right now Sano is the only consensus impact talent in the entire system, the next closest group (Benson, Arcia, Rosario) are more popular with some scouts/publications than others and are probably overvalued by Twins fans and bloggers.
Posted 08 March 2012 - 02:57 PM
There is huge difference between Impact players and Role players on a roster. The Twins have a lot of talent in New Britain and Rochester but only a few of them are impact players. Let’s look at the following players;
1. Chris Parmelee- He will be a future impact player if he continues to develop in Rochester.
2. Brian Dozier- It’s uncertain what role Dozier will play with the Twins in the future. Some view him as a utility player and others view him as the starting SS. Time will tell but he could be an impact player.
3. Joe Benson- He has all the tools to be a superstar player. However, he has taken a little longer to develop and at times looks overmatched. He strikesout way too much and does not make enough contact. I’m leaning towards Benson being a role player.
4. Kyle Gibson- Nobody knows how he will recover from T.J. surgery. He won’t be ready until 2013 and might be a #3 pitcher in the starting rotation. Clearly he is role player.
5. Liam Hendriks- He appears to be a pretty solid middle of the rotation starter (#3 or #4). Might improve some more at Rochester and surprise some people. He is a role player.
6. Rene Tosoni- He has good opposite field power but clearly is not a starting outfielder. There also is no room for him unless somebody is traded. A 4th outfielder at best for Twins and another role player.
7. Aaron Hicks- He is still young and talented enough to put it all together and become the next Torii Hunter. However, he has been very inconsistent over the last two years and his stock has fallen. I believe he will produce if he can make it to the majors. Right now that is a big IF.
8. Luke Hughes- He has good power and plays decent defense at 2B (His best position). Does not appear to be a everyday player because he gets injured too often. He will make the team as a bench/role player.
9. Alex Wimmers- Struggled with control problems but came back strong towards the end of last year. Not sure if he will become stagnant or continue to move through the system. Projects to be a #3 or #4 pitcher and that’sbeing optimistic. A role player.
10. Carlos Gutierrez- He has all the talent to be a real good big league reliever. He struggles with his control sometimes on the mound and it snowballs into big innings. Could be a dominant force in the 7thor 8th inning if he can make adjustments. A role player.
Edited by Fanatic Jack, 08 March 2012 - 03:11 PM.
Posted 08 March 2012 - 04:06 PM
Posted 08 March 2012 - 04:24 PM
Edited by Fanatic Jack, 08 March 2012 - 04:28 PM.
Posted 08 March 2012 - 04:56 PM
Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:54 PM
Well, I think Gibson still can have impact in the next couple years, and I wouldn't be surprised if Wimmers becomes a nice option as well.
I'm not a fan of the current rotation, but just think how bad it will be in the next year or two. Absolutely no impact starters anywhere on the horizon.....
Back to the main topic, my earlier point still remains. Teams that win divisions, and titles, don't do it with lineups consisting of the players like the Twins currently have in the upper level of the minors. There may be guys who are ML starters, but they are guys who are going to be starters on second division teams. You win with impact players and the Twins are sadly short on those guys in the upper levels of the minors. For a team that is supposed to be built from within, it's a sad statement, especially when you see that they also haven't graduated any impact players in the last couple years. It's far too long a drought for a team that is supposed to rely heavily on home grown players. Terry Ryan is primarily responsible for the lack of talent at these levels as he was in charge or "advising" over all the recent drafts. That's one reason I was never as excited about his return as most. I think he's an upgrade over Smith, but the recent results don't scream huge success as far as evaluating and elevating amateur talent.
Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:55 PM
I get what you're saying, but to be honest, I don't care if they would start for those other teams.
I care. Shouldn't the goal be to have better players than other teams? Isn't that how you win? Don't we want the Twins to win?
Collecting players not good enough to play for anyone else doesn't seem like a good strategy to me.
Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:53 AM
Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:44 AM
Fair enough... but I think we all know that there is a difference between an Impact player and a role player... individual definitions of each are dependent upon each person's opinion. I guess I would have to add another option in between those two. In my mind, a guy like Dozier may not be an Impact player if defined as a multi-time All-Star. But if a guy becomes a guy who plays 140 games a year for 3-6 years, that's certainly more than just a role player. I also don't believe that a #3 starter is a "role" player either. He may not be a Cy Young candidate and make that big of an impact, but to a 25 man roster, the number 3 starter is certainly more than just a role player. In my prospect rankings, I generally don't rank relievers very high, but if you Carlos Gutierrez becomes "a dominant force in the 7th or 8th inning", that's a very important role. If Rene Tosoni is a platoon starter or a bench bat, that's a role player, for sure.
My point wasn't to say that the Twins have a lot of guys who will be Hall of Famers in the upper levels, but they have 5-6 guys who could contribute in a big way (as a starter in the lineup, as a starting in the rotation, or a key component in the bullpen) and several others who can fill roles. The cupboard is far from bare.
ITA with this. Look at how hard it's been for the Twins to fill the SS position. If Dozier becomes an average MLB starting SS for 4-6 seasons with the club, he won't be considered an "impact" player by some, but it'd be a huge win for the franchise not having to search for a SS every season and enduring the many failures we've had over the years.
And a #3 or #4 starter is an impact player too. Teams are always looking for starting pitching, and continuing to develop quality MLB starters is also very good. Filling that #3/4 hole and not overpaying on a replacement-level free agent? Also a big win.
I think I look at "impact" players differently than a lot of the so-called experts; my thoughts are much more like Seth's. Impact players in the upper-levels to me are guys who can come up and fill in when someone gets an injury and not drag the club down. They're guys who have the potential to be starters in MLB for several years. They don't have to just be all-stars in the making to be serious impact players for me. And the twins have a number of guys in AA & AAA that meet that definition.
People always want to have the Next Big Star one promotion away. But that doesn't happen too often. Hopefully the guy the Twins get with the #2 pick in the draft will be one of those players, but even if it doesn't happen I don't think the cupboard is bare and I think the twins can continue to look to their minor league system first when trying to fill holes in the starting lineup.
Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:59 AM
Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:07 PM
This is where GM Terry Ryan being in charge again will really help out.
I don't see how you can make that claim, Ryan has been heavily involved in the Twins draft and player development for the last several years. Unless you think Ryan is an improvement on Ryan, this just doesn't make sense to me.