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Twins went after Ervin Santana, looking at Haren

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#1 phalvorson

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:28 AM

According to Darren "Doogie" Wolfson (sports guy for 5 Eyewitness News) in his "The Scoops" article today on 1500ESPN.com, the Twins were in on Ervin Santana up until the last minute.

From the article:

The source indicated the Twins tried to get the Los Angeles Angels to eat more than the $1 million they sent to Kansas City, which will pay Santana $12 million in 2013.

...

The source went silent when asked if, while talking to the Angels about Santana, pitcher Dan Haren's name has come up.

...
Another name to monitor: Tampa Bay's James Shields. While having his $10.25 million option exercised for 2013, he's available. The Twins seem like a good match with the Rays because of their outfield depth. Tampa Bay is expected to lose outfielder B.J. Upton, who's a free agent."


Additional notes from the article:
• It sounds like the Twins will non-tender Casilla if they have to offer him arbitration.
• The Twins have inquired about pitcher Randy Messenger who is pitching in Japan, supposedly through next year. With Hanshin last year, he went 10-11 in 196.2 IP in 2012 with 166 strikeouts, 65 walks and a 2.52 ERA.


The link to the full article is here:
http://www.1500espn....n_Santana110212

Edited by John Bonnes, 02 November 2012 - 12:54 PM.
Please don't copy big chunks of stories from other sites.


#2 ThePuck

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:51 AM

I'm actually happy they didn't get him...but, on the other hand, this is typical of the Twins...giving just enough effort to show the fanbase they're 'trying' and then just missing out. Ah, shucks. Like when they offered a contract to Hunter that they KNEW he wouldn't take (not enough years) after ignoring him all offseason when he was trying to get an extension. They offered enough money, but not enough years...and they knew the years wouldn't work when they made the offer. But it was a PR offer so some fans would say, well, they tried and it was the greed of Hunter that made it not work.

Offer just enough to make it seem like they're really trying, but little enough to know the deal won't happen.

#3 Thrylos

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:29 AM

The Twins have inquired about pitcher Randy Messenger. Tied to the Hanshin Tigers in Japan through next season, there could be some wiggle room. Messenger went 10-11 in 196.2 IP in 2012 with 166 strikeouts, 65 walks and a 2.52 ERA.


Hope that they are looking at him for Rochester... I am not sure how they think he might be better than DeVries/Deduno/Hendricks/Walters etc at this point. He was a very mediocre RP in the majors (and minors; even though he started a bit in the minors) here
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#4 Seth Stohs

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:40 AM

Looking for another Colby Lewis... A guy who went over to Japan, figured a few things out, showed he could eat some innings, and he'll get a shot again in the big leagues.

#5 iastfan112

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 09:37 AM

Looking for another Colby Lewis... A guy who went over to Japan, figured a few things out, showed he could eat some innings, and he'll get a shot again in the big leagues.


Lewis was a better prospect and had better results in Japan though.

#6 Parker Hageman

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 10:11 AM

Looking for another Colby Lewis... A guy who went over to Japan, figured a few things out, showed he could eat some innings, and he'll get a shot again in the big leagues.


I have got to believe that based on Lewis's numbers in the NPB he would have a much higher success rate of transferring to the MLB than Messenger's does.

Lewis (2008-2009): 354.1 IP, 307 hits, 369-to-46 strikeouts-to-walks
Messenger (2011-2012): 296.2 IP, 294 hits, 288-to-110 strikeouts-to-walks

#7 mike wants wins

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 10:17 AM

We are going to read this about every pitcher...." We were interested, but they wanted more money, or more years, or more prospects than we were willing to do'. Over and over, until only bad pitchers are left. First pitcher in, and we are already hearing it.

#8 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 10:24 AM

We are going to read this about every pitcher...." We were interested, but they wanted more money, or more years, or more prospects than we were willing to do'. Over and over, until only bad pitchers are left. First pitcher in, and we are already hearing it.


I don't fault them for not going all-in on Santana. He's the type of guy that you pick up if you can get a decent deal on him but if you can't, you pursue some of the more reliable (and longer-term) guys on the market.

Remember that acquiring Santana would have done serious damage to the Twins' ability to pursue a Jackson/Sanchez type and signing them to multiple seasons. $13m is a lot of money for a guy who's going to be around for one season on a team that needs four starting pitchers for 2013 and beyond.

#9 mike wants wins

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 10:45 AM

I don't either. My statement was not really about him, it was about what I predict will be a trend.....

#10 ScottyB

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 10:47 AM

Santana is a right-handed Liriano. He's got the stuff, but totally inconsistant. If you wouldn't drop $13M on Liriano, why drop it on Santana?

#11 righty8383

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 10:57 AM

Assuming the Angels do not pick up the option on Haren, do you guys think they will make him a qualifying offer?

#12 johnnydakota

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 11:19 AM

dont worry have fun enjoy the winter and know come march terry ryan will have a world series caliber team ready for us to watch and buy season tickets for ...go terry you da man

#13 johnnydakota

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 11:23 AM

if the twins want a pitcher from japan they should look at 18 year old shohei otani..
the twins have a few dollars left from the 2012 international signing bonuses, they should make an offer now and give him a 3-5 year quarenteed contract of a million per year , in lou of a big bonus...but thats if they want to aquire pitching ...

#14 PseudoSABR

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:24 PM

Assuming the Angels do not pick up the option on Haren, do you guys think they will make him a qualifying offer?

It'd be akin to the option if he accepts. 12 mil arb plus the 3.5 mil decline kicker....

#15 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:34 PM

[quote name='PseudoSABR'][quote name='righty8383']Assuming the Angels do not pick up the option on Haren, do you guys think they will make him a qualifying offer?[/QUOTE]It'd be akin to the option if he accepts. 12 mil arb plus the 3.5 mil decline kicker....[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure I read somewhere a qualifiying offer will be over $13M this winter.

#16 John Bonnes

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:58 PM

if the twins want a pitcher from japan they should look at 18 year old shohei otani..
the twins have a few dollars left from the 2012 international signing bonuses, they should make an offer now and give him a 3-5 year quarenteed contract of a million per year , in lou of a big bonus...but thats if they want to aquire pitching ...


I don't think they can. Offers to Otani will be limited by the cap on international signing bonuses. And I'm quite sure the CBA limits their ability to get around it with offers of a guaranteed contract.

#17 70charger

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 04:18 PM

I'm actually happy they didn't get him...but, on the other hand, this is typical of the Twins...giving just enough effort to show the fanbase they're 'trying' and then just missing out. Ah, shucks. Like when they offered a contract to Hunter that they KNEW he wouldn't take (not enough years) after ignoring him all offseason when he was trying to get an extension. They offered enough money, but not enough years...and they knew the years wouldn't work when they made the offer. But it was a PR offer so some fans would say, well, they tried and it was the greed of Hunter that made it not work.

Offer just enough to make it seem like they're really trying, but little enough to know the deal won't happen.


I find this line of reasoning totally unconvincing. Occam's razor. Is it more likely that the Twins valued Santana at, not $12 million, but say $10 million? Or is it more likely that the Twins are putting on an elaborate dog and pony show, gambling tens of millions of dollars on players that they don't want, all for the PR impact on the very few hardcore fans who are still paying attention in November?

#18 ThePuck

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 04:29 PM

[quote name='70charger'][quote name='ThePuck']I'm actually happy they didn't get him...but, on the other hand, this is typical of the Twins...giving just enough effort to show the fanbase they're 'trying' and then just missing out. Ah, shucks. Like when they offered a contract to Hunter that they KNEW he wouldn't take (not enough years) after ignoring him all offseason when he was trying to get an extension. They offered enough money, but not enough years...and they knew the years wouldn't work when they made the offer. But it was a PR offer so some fans would say, well, they tried and it was the greed of Hunter that made it not work.

Offer just enough to make it seem like they're really trying, but little enough to know the deal won't happen.[/QUOTE]

I find this line of reasoning totally unconvincing. Occam's razor. Is it more likely that the Twins valued Santana at, not $12 million, but say $10 million? Or is it more likely that the Twins are putting on an elaborate dog and pony show, gambling tens of millions of dollars on players that they don't want, all for the PR impact on the very few hardcore fans who are still paying attention in November?[/QUOTE]

Okay

#19 johnnydakota

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 05:23 PM

[quote name='John Bonnes'][quote name='johnnydakota']if the twins want a pitcher from japan they should look at 18 year old shohei otani..
the twins have a few dollars left from the 2012 international signing bonuses, they should make an offer now and give him a 3-5 year quarenteed contract of a million per year , in lou of a big bonus...but thats if they want to aquire pitching ...[/QUOTE]

I don't think they can. Offers to Otani will be limited by the cap on international signing bonuses. And I'm quite sure the CBA limits their ability to get around it with offers of a guaranteed contract.[/QUOTE]
so now there is a slot system to minor leaque payroll?a player can only earn 50,000 a year?75,000 a year?

#20 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:03 PM

MLBtraderumors (via ESPNChicago) is reporting Haren to the Cubs for Marmol.

Strike another one off the "potentials" list.