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Article: Gibson Causing Giddiness

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#1 Nick Nelson

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:26 PM

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#2 Thrylos

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:50 PM

Perhaps even more encouraging than the numbers are the reports on Gibson's fastball velocity, which was purportedly registering up to 93 MPH in his latest start.


Indeed that is what matters: throwing hard with no pain.
And Joe C's numbers are pretty conservative. Mackey indicates that PitchF/X had him at 93-95. He will get a chance this ST; up to him to grab it by the horns...
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#3 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:04 PM

Stunned by TR's statement of Gibson getting only 130 innings next yr after getting 70ish innings already THIS season. Where does that come from.
Handling of Hicks/Arcia/Gibson just shows me that the club isnt interested in truly competing next yr....just field a team & hope for the best.

#4 clutterheart

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:57 PM

Stunned by TR's statement of Gibson getting only 130 innings next yr after getting 70ish innings already THIS season. Where does that come from.
Handling of Hicks/Arcia/Gibson just shows me that the club isnt interested in truly competing next yr....just field a team & hope for the best.


While I agree that the Ryan's plan is to wait out this bad patch, I am not sure how they are mishandleing Hicks & Arcia. I think both are going to go to Spring training and if they play well, it would be shocking f they both don't see time on the 25 man roster next year.
Further I am not unhappy at all to hear that Gibson would get reduced innings. His long term health is more important. But in the unlikely event they team plays well out of the gate next year and is contention, hopefully they take steps to have him avaiable for the playoffs. (By limiting his innings in Late July & August)

#5 Seth Stohs

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:58 PM

Proceeding cautiously with Hicks (22 year old coming off his first quality all-around season, in AA), Arcia (half-season of AA time) and Gibson (after missing all of 2012 with TOMMY JOHN surgery... yeah, that's crazy!

#6 Shane Wahl

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:34 PM

Maybe he can start the season in the bullpen in Rochester? Or as a starter going 2-3 innings (and have an Andrew Albers or someone take over in long relief for each start?). That way he stays as 30 or so innings through May (imagine what Washington could have done in the playoffs if they had managed Strassburg appropriately). A strict 5 inning limit through August would push it to 100 at the most. Then turn him loose in September. Now, of course, we all know that the Twins will be playing deep into October so . . . . there's not that.

#7 beckmt

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:03 AM

I'm sure unless Gibson is lights out in spring training, he will start in Rochester. It could be that the options take themselves out of contention and he has to start in Minnesota. I hope he is here as it seems like the Twins need him. I did some checking at mlbtradermors and there are a lot of clubs looking for starting pitching.. That would seem to mean that unless TR is willing to overpay, we will have about the same staff as the end of last year. That will not work.

#8 NoCryingInBaseball

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:40 AM

Limiting innings the following year after TJ seems appropriate and in the long-term best interest of Gibson (and the team if his stuff is as good as the reports). Rather than sit him down in September, like Washington did to Strassburg, why not have him sit out a month in the spring. After all, he is pitching Fall League.

#9 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:48 AM

Limiting innings the following year after TJ seems appropriate and in the long-term best interest of Gibson (and the team if his stuff is as good as the reports). Rather than sit him down in September, like Washington did to Strassburg, why not have him sit out a month in the spring. After all, he is pitching Fall League.


I don't see the need to have him sit out but a short stretch in the bullpen might be in order to keep him pitching through September.

#10 mike wants wins

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:32 AM

There is no evidence that limiting innings matters. The data is on the interwebs. No reason that he should pitch in Rochester, but not Minnesota, if he is one of the five beat starters. He is 25, there are only so many years in an arm. But we all know he will start in Rochester.

#11 Twins Twerp

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:33 AM

Stunned by TR's statement of Gibson getting only 130 innings next yr after getting 70ish innings already THIS season. Where does that come from.
Handling of Hicks/Arcia/Gibson just shows me that the club isnt interested in truly competing next yr....just field a team & hope for the best.


Some people will look at anything half full. Are still complaining about 2 AA hitters not getting called up to get 5 AB's in September? I mean how bad is your life that you have to come on this website, day after day, and post your negative viewpoint. "Pitch to contact is the worst, Tom Kelly's is a good high school coach, we take to long to call up our prospects, nag nag nag." This organization has hit a rough patch but it did spend the last decade being one of the top teams in the AL. So I think we should all just calm down and let TR do his thing and get us back to respectability. This team is not that far off.

#12 Badsmerf

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:56 AM

That pitch limit is a little low. It is actually about 100% from what he pitched this year, so the Twins must have seen something that has lead them to believe that is a good number. When you think about it, that is quite a workload on an arm. I think I'd push it to about 150 or so, but I believe more pitches creates stronger arms. I don't think the Twins will have the same problem the Nationals did with the playoffs....
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#13 nicksaviking

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:33 AM

You'd like to limit his innings at Rochester so he is able to pitch deeper into the season at the MLB level, but if his innings are limited at AAA, how is anyone going to be able to determine if a promotion is warrented?

Of course if he's killing it at AAA, the fans are going to demand a callup while the front office is trying to figure out how best to play the Super 2 game with him.

#14 mike wants wins

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:44 AM

He is 25, and in his prime. Worrying about his pay 5 years into his MLB career seems to misunderstand some pretty fundamental odds of his career turning out in certain ways. This has been a weakness of teams for a few years now. Had Trout been in the majora all year, Anaheim might be in the playoffs....not that I think Gibson is Trout or the Twins are the Angels.

#15 Jim Crikket

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:54 AM

If Gibson really is lights-out in Spring Training, it's going to be really interesting to see what Terry Ryan does with him. He's essentially (and rightfully) told his manager that his job is on the line in 2013 and a bad start could even see a change made in mid-season. Given that, would he really also tell him that he can't use one of his best starting pitchers (potentially even THE best) until May or even June? That would be an interesting conversation to listen in on.

#16 Winston Smith

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:55 AM

If he is one of the best 5 starters and it's hard to believe he wouldn't be he should start with the Twins. They could limit his innings by skipping his start once a month, that's easy to do with days off. That would limit his innings to what they want. I think the norm is about 150-160 innings.
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#17 Ex-Iowegian

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:58 AM

This is quite simply, very good news.

#18 joeboo_22

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:15 AM

130 is way to few. I don't agree with a 170-180 limit but I can live with it. 130 though is at the point where I'd consider putting him in the bullpen. Which is not where he is needed. Unless he isn't 100%, he should pitch 180 innings as a starter.

If he is 1 of the 5 best starters in ST, he should start with the Twins, I don't care, whether that means he has to be shut down in August. If he is on a 130 IP count, the last thing we need is for him to use 30 of them in Rochester, when we have starters getting lit up in Minnesota

#19 Steve Penz

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:23 AM

Stunned by TR's statement of Gibson getting only 130 innings next yr after getting 70ish innings already THIS season. Where does that come from.
Handling of Hicks/Arcia/Gibson just shows me that the club isnt interested in truly competing next yr....just field a team & hope for the best.


Some people will look at anything half full. Are still complaining about 2 AA hitters not getting called up to get 5 AB's in September? I mean how bad is your life that you have to come on this website, day after day, and post your negative viewpoint. "Pitch to contact is the worst, Tom Kelly's is a good high school coach, we take to long to call up our prospects, nag nag nag." This organization has hit a rough patch but it did spend the last decade being one of the top teams in the AL. So I think we should all just calm down and let TR do his thing and get us back to respectability. This team is not that far off.


Amen and thank you. To go nuts and start rushing players will destroy them. Why not hold off get them more ready. 1.5 weeks ago i heard Rosen insinuate that we should rush Sano up to the mlb level. Good lord why?

When the young players are ready they will get to target field.

Relax please.

#20 PopRiveter

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:26 AM

If he pitches well in ST and they want to limit innings and ease him in slowly, I'd prefer to see him used sparingly in relief with the Twins rather than starting in Rochester. That way, he starts to experience MLB competition before joining the rotation and fires fewer of his bullets against AAA players. I know it affects contract status eventually, but they need to play every angle they can to establish a real, major-league rotation now.

#21 TRex

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:00 AM

Do you really want to put someone in the bullpen who is coming back from major surgery AND has never pitched from the bullpen before... AND at a level of competition he has never seen before? That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. In addition, some pitchers (i.e. Slowey) just don't feel right out of the pen, so how in the world is he supposed to know what arm pain is normal bullpen usage versus breakup of scar tissue or something worse?

#22 ThePuck

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:01 AM

[quote name='SRP'][quote name='Twins Twerp'][quote name='greengoblinrulz']Stunned by TR's statement of Gibson getting only 130 innings next yr after getting 70ish innings already THIS season. Where does that come from.
Handling of Hicks/Arcia/Gibson just shows me that the club isnt interested in truly competing next yr....just field a team & hope for the best.[/QUOTE]

Some people will look at anything half full. Are still complaining about 2 AA hitters not getting called up to get 5 AB's in September? I mean how bad is your life that you have to come on this website, day after day, and post your negative viewpoint. "Pitch to contact is the worst, Tom Kelly's is a good high school coach, we take to long to call up our prospects, nag nag nag." This organization has hit a rough patch but it did spend the last decade being one of the top teams in the AL. So I think we should all just calm down and let TR do his thing and get us back to respectability. This team is not that far off.[/QUOTE]

Amen and thank you. To go nuts and start rushing players will destroy them. Why not hold off get them more ready. 1.5 weeks ago i heard Rosen insinuate that we should rush Sano up to the mlb level. Good lord why?

When the young players are ready they will get to target field.

Relax please.[/QUOTE]

How long does a 1st rounder and 2nd rounder need to be in the minors before one can say that was a wasted 1st round or 2nd round pick?

#23 Linus

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:31 AM

Its all about service time. There is no way the Twins should burn a year of control when he is coming off TJ surgery and the club is likely not to contend. Since we will never sign an ace through free agency, its critical to add the extra year of control - it may be the only we he is here the final year before free agency.

#24 mbents

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:32 AM

I don't see the need to have him sit out but a short stretch in the bullpen might be in order to keep him pitching through September.


I don't understand the benefit of having Gibson pitching through September. It's unlikely that the Twins will be competitive in 2013, so if they want to cap Gibson's innings at 130 then it doesn't really matter when he reaches that limit. If the Twins somehow find themselves in a situation similar to what the Nationals went through with Strasburg this summer, then maybe they have Gibson skip a start here and there so he can pitch through September. If that's the case, it's a good problem to have (and hopefully one that they would handle better than the Nats with Strasburg).

#25 PopRiveter

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:38 PM

Do you really want to put someone in the bullpen who is coming back from major surgery AND has never pitched from the bullpen before... AND at a level of competition he has never seen before?


Absolutely. There are roles within a bullpen that can be managed very closely. You have control. He certainly wouldn't fit as a go-to BP guy (like a Perkins, Burton workhorse.) But, he can be valuable and remain protected if used for 2 innings here and there on a regular basis.
You can plan to have him as 2nd in line on days a shorter-inning starter throws. For example, If Deduno makes the squad. Kyle loosens up after inning 4 (or 5 if you prefer) regardless of the game scenario. If Deduno (or other chosen guy) flames out early, long relief guy enters the game to bridge to Kyle. If Deduno pitches a gem, Kyle throws a BP session that is tailored to his recovery/strengthening program.
You can afford to carry one reliever in a very protected role like that if there is reason to. In my opinion, that experience would be very valuable and help position him to contribute in the rotation later with some momentum already established. All the while, his innings will have been limited early in the season rather than late in the season.

#26 joeboo_22

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:42 PM

Do you really want to put someone in the bullpen who is coming back from major surgery AND has never pitched from the bullpen before... AND at a level of competition he has never seen before? That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. In addition, some pitchers (i.e. Slowey) just don't feel right out of the pen, so how in the world is he supposed to know what arm pain is normal bullpen usage versus breakup of scar tissue or something worse?


No, the best thing would be to put a 180 IP limit and have him as a starter all year, whether that is in AAA or the majors. The problem is by putting a 130 IP limit, he could be done by the early August, and if he is good enough to be with the Twins all year he should be with the Twins all year.

#27 h2oface

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 02:56 PM

gibson will have to rack up quite a career for me to ever forget that the braintrust of the minnesota twins could have had mike trout instead, even as low as they picked when they chose gibson. but then one wonders....... if the twins would have still had trout playing high a or double a last year, and been trying to make him hit the ball different than his unorthodox style..............

Edited by h2oface, 17 October 2012 - 03:00 PM.


#28 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:12 PM

I don't see the need to have him sit out but a short stretch in the bullpen might be in order to keep him pitching through September.


I don't understand the benefit of having Gibson pitching through September. It's unlikely that the Twins will be competitive in 2013, so if they want to cap Gibson's innings at 130 then it doesn't really matter when he reaches that limit. If the Twins somehow find themselves in a situation similar to what the Nationals went through with Strasburg this summer, then maybe they have Gibson skip a start here and there so he can pitch through September. If that's the case, it's a good problem to have (and hopefully one that they would handle better than the Nats with Strasburg).


I'm of the opinion that you never enter a season without the expectation of being competitive unless you've just finished wiping the roster through a fire sale.

#29 PseudoSABR

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:17 PM

gibson will have to rack up quite a career for me to ever forget that the braintrust of the minnesota twins could have had mike trout instead, even as low as they picked when they chose gibson. but then one wonders....... if the twins would have still had trout playing high a or double a last year, and been trying to make him hit the ball different than his unorthodox style..............

Lot's of teams passed on Trout...

#30 Thrylos

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:03 PM

If he is one of the best 5 starters and it's hard to believe he wouldn't be he should start with the Twins. .


Plenty of examples that the Twins did not start the best 5 out of Spring Training in recent seasons... 2006: Liriano had to start the season in the pen. 2007: (the year of Sir Sidney and Ramon Ortiz) Garza had to start the season in Rochester to pay his dues; 2008 (the year of Livan). Liriano has to stay in AAA forever so the super 2 clock will not click; 2011: Slowey was much better than Blackburn in ST, Blackburn gets to be in the rotation (because of the scholarship) . 2012: Marquis has an atrocious ST, he is not ready and he still wins a spot. So it is the norm vs the exception in Twinsland....
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