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#1 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:35 PM

The Titans aren't a good team by any means, but a 30-7 beat-down against anyone is a good sign, the defense looked incredible, Ponder made like 4 or 5 really awful throws in a row and got 2 INT's against him, perhaps it was a good learning experience as he came back and ended up having a nice game (25-35, 240 yards and 2 TDS) hopefully he learns not to force those balls in the future.

That defense though, wow. I know Tenn was missing their "starting" QB, but Hasselbeck might be just as good as Locker at this point and the D played amazing all around.

Heading to DC next weekend for the Skins/Vikings game. Should be a great test for this team, hopefully are 5-1 by this time next week.

#2 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 06:36 PM

Wow.....this defense is for real. Is it the talent or is the new coordinator just really mixing it up well? It's pretty much the same team plus Harrison Smith and Brinkley and Cook - are they making THIS much of a difference?

#3 Willihammer

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:46 AM

I think the greatest test they've faced so far is Indianapolis. Ten is lousy, Hasselbeck is a bottom 5 QB so far. We'll see how the D holds up after the by when they have to face A-Rodg and Cutler twice each. No EAgles, Giants, or Falcons on the schedule, that helps too. They are definitely improved but might be playing over the heads a little right now.

#4 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 02:10 PM

I think the greatest test they've faced so far is Indianapolis. Ten is lousy, Hasselbeck is a bottom 5 QB so far. We'll see how the D holds up after the by when they have to face A-Rodg and Cutler twice each. No EAgles, Giants, or Falcons on the schedule, that helps too. They are definitely improved but might be playing over the heads a little right now.


Funny, no mention of the 49ers who put up 45 points against a Bills team that just put in 100+ mil into their defense this off-season.
Also no mention of the Lions, who aren't great but have a high powered offense.

Tenn sucks, but its still an amazing feat that they made it past the Vikings 45 zero times until a late drive when the game was already out of hand.

The Vikes D have completely dominated these last 3 games, I'm not sure what more you could ask from them. The D-Line is stout, the LB group has improved and the secondary actually looks like an NFL caliber secondary for the first time in what feels like forever.

Will they struggle potentially against Aaron Rogers? Duh, who doesn't struggle against him. Luckily for us GB's defense is awful as is there o line, so as long as the Vikes Defense puts pressure on him and Ponder and co. limit turnovers there is zero reason why the Vikings can't compete and win at least one game against the Packers.

#5 Willihammer

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:27 PM

Yeah but this defense also made Blaine Gabbert look pretty good, at home. And, the Bills gave up ~600 yards to the Pats last week. But you can do the "x beat y who almost lost to z and z lit up x" game all day.

I'll admit I may be experiencing symptoms of AVATAR syndrome.

#6 TheLeviathan

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:17 PM

I would say, since teh defensive personnel is almost identical to last year, that it's fair to be cautious. I'm not sure what the difference is right now, so I'm not 100% bought-in either.

#7 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:00 AM

I would say, since teh defensive personnel is almost identical to last year, that it's fair to be cautious. I'm not sure what the difference is right now, so I'm not 100% bought-in either.

We are Vikings fans, we are always waiting for the 2nd shoe to drop :)

#8 Thor

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:34 PM

You can call me "Paul Allen optimistic" but the start shouldn't be that big of a suprise

2 true superstars on offense(Percy and Adrian)
One of the best pass rushers of the last 10 years
Greenway has always been very good, now he looks like he may be the other true superstar on D.

Put 2 guys on each side that are at the top of the heap of players and mix in a couple first round picks that play like veterans, a FA or 2 and let last years 1st rounder play with some protection and confidence and good thins happen. Besides this is the NFL where an average of 6 teams that missed the playoffs the year before make it the next. All of the bad breaks we had last year are paying dividends now. (I thought we should have been a 7-9 team last year) So we are due 4 wins from last year and should be a 9-7 team this year. Make that 11-5 and 2 playoff wins and see what happens in the NFC Championship game!:go:

#9 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:04 AM

You can call me "Paul Allen optimistic" but the start shouldn't be that big of a suprise

2 true superstars on offense(Percy and Adrian)
One of the best pass rushers of the last 10 years
Greenway has always been very good, now he looks like he may be the other true superstar on D.

Put 2 guys on each side that are at the top of the heap of players and mix in a couple first round picks that play like veterans, a FA or 2 and let last years 1st rounder play with some protection and confidence and good thins happen. Besides this is the NFL where an average of 6 teams that missed the playoffs the year before make it the next. All of the bad breaks we had last year are paying dividends now. (I thought we should have been a 7-9 team last year) So we are due 4 wins from last year and should be a 9-7 team this year. Make that 11-5 and 2 playoff wins and see what happens in the NFC Championship game!:go:


This is a playoff caliber defense, and you are right they have the studs on offense to keep it going as well. At this point our biggest threat is the injury bug, as good as the starters are we just don't have any depth really anywhere on the roster (other then DL maybe)

If one of Allen, Greenway, Harvin, Peterson, Kahlil or even Ponder gets hurt this team suddenly looks very .500 again.

#10 Thor

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 05:21 PM

This is a playoff caliber defense, and you are right they have the studs on offense to keep it going as well. At this point our biggest threat is the injury bug, as good as the starters are we just don't have any depth really anywhere on the roster (other then DL maybe)

If one of Allen, Greenway, Harvin, Peterson, Kahlil or even Ponder gets hurt this team suddenly looks very .500 again.


If any of them but especially Percy gets hurt getting 4 more wins would be a huge challenge.

#11 Badsmerf

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:01 AM

I think the improvement is because of a number of things. Kevin Williams is having a great year again. Brinkely is playing way better than Henderson did, and Erin Henderson has been very good. So the whole LB core has played great so far. The secondary is legit. Cook has been a lock-down guy, Harrison Smith has provided a big-time playmaker and the tackling has been very good by the secondary. I'm more worried about the offense not being able to score points than the defense holding up. I still don't think Ponder is any good. He is smart and protects the ball, but at this points that all. Give him a few receivers and maybe that will help, but this team will have trouble scoring points against good defenses.
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#12 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:38 AM

but this team will have trouble scoring points against good defenses.


Like the 49ers?

As long as this team has Peterson and Harvin on the field they will be able to put up points. It would be nice if one of the other WR/TE's would step up a bit though, Simpson looks like he has promise but is injured apparently?

#13 biggentleben

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:17 PM

Two reasons this Vikings team is doing much better: DRASTICALLY improved line play across the entire offensive line, and much better interior line play on defense. Build from the inside out, and it can help. Kalil was a great pick, Sullivan has taken his lumps, but he's moving quickly to an All Pro level at center, and the rest of the line is quite solid. Kevin Williams' play has been great, but it's been Guion, Ballard, Evans, and Griffen (in pass rush situations) who have made a huge difference to make the defense look that much better.
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#14 TheLeviathan

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:00 PM

Like the 49ers?

As long as this team has Peterson and Harvin on the field they will be able to put up points. It would be nice if one of the other WR/TE's would step up a bit though, Simpson looks like he has promise but is injured apparently?


Is there some reason you just don't post various synonyms of "jerking off"? Because the last few weeks you would make Paul Allen blush with your homerism.

This offense has looked bad more often than it has looked good. There are plenty of reasons not to be in love with this team and it isn't just about the other WRs and TEs. Great QBs can drastically raise the level of the skill players around them. The Vikings have plenty of weapons to be at least an average offense. At some point you do have to pin it on the guy distributing. It would be a lot easier to be positive about what Ponder has done well if you weren't so damn eager to ignore all the things he wasn't doing well.

And great point Ben, I've noticed the same thing. The front seven on defense are playing some intense, ferocious football and the guys up front are giving the QB a lot of time and the RBs some huge holes. Winning the line of scrimmage does wonders for a team's ability to win games.

#15 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:56 PM

Like the 49ers?

As long as this team has Peterson and Harvin on the field they will be able to put up points. It would be nice if one of the other WR/TE's would step up a bit though, Simpson looks like he has promise but is injured apparently?


Is there some reason you just don't post various synonyms of "jerking off"? Because the last few weeks you would make Paul Allen blush with your homerism.

This offense has looked bad more often than it has looked good. There are plenty of reasons not to be in love with this team and it isn't just about the other WRs and TEs. Great QBs can drastically raise the level of the skill players around them. The Vikings have plenty of weapons to be at least an average offense. At some point you do have to pin it on the guy distributing. It would be a lot easier to be positive about what Ponder has done well if you weren't so damn eager to ignore all the things he wasn't doing well.

And great point Ben, I've noticed the same thing. The front seven on defense are playing some intense, ferocious football and the guys up front are giving the QB a lot of time and the RBs some huge holes. Winning the line of scrimmage does wonders for a team's ability to win games.


See you keep claiming that Ponder isn't doing a good job, but yet he has a 95.5 QB Rating. He must be doing ok, no? Could it be better? Yes. Do I think he will continue to improve? Yes.

The team started out a little sluggish this year but even you have to admit the last three weeks have been nothing short of impressive.

#16 TheLeviathan

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:49 PM

See you keep claiming that Ponder isn't doing a good job, but yet he has a 95.5 QB Rating. He must be doing ok, no? Could it be better? Yes. Do I think he will continue to improve? Yes.

The team started out a little sluggish this year but even you have to admit the last three weeks have been nothing short of impressive.


He's not the reason we're winning games. And the offense has been inept for long stretches this season, so in part we're winning inspite of the offense. His QB rating is driven by completion percentage and low turnovers - which are good things - but we need more from him if we're a serious contender.

The last three weeks the offensive line, special teams, and defense have impressed me. The offense laid an egg against a bad Detroit defense and were pretty meh against a sub-par Titans team. I was impressed in the Niners game though.

#17 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:27 PM

See you keep claiming that Ponder isn't doing a good job, but yet he has a 95.5 QB Rating. He must be doing ok, no? Could it be better? Yes. Do I think he will continue to improve? Yes.

The team started out a little sluggish this year but even you have to admit the last three weeks have been nothing short of impressive.


He's not the reason we're winning games. And the offense has been inept for long stretches this season, so in part we're winning inspite of the offense. His QB rating is driven by completion percentage and low turnovers - which are good things - but we need more from him if we're a serious contender.

The last three weeks the offensive line, special teams, and defense have impressed me. The offense laid an egg against a bad Detroit defense and were pretty meh against a sub-par Titans team. I was impressed in the Niners game though.


The "high completion% and low turnovers" comment was the EXACT same thing said about Smith last season, and he took them to the brink of the super bowl.

I agree that he needs to still improve, but it would be nice if he had more than Harvin to throw to. Look how awesome Smith has been this year with a couple more competent WR's at his disposal.

Also the offense looked fine against Tennessee, they put up 30 points with an injured Adrian Peterson!

#18 TheLeviathan

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:51 AM

[QUOTE]The "high completion% and low turnovers" comment was the EXACT same thing said about Smith last season, and he took them to the brink of the super bowl. [/QUOTE]

Again, in this NFL, that kind of QB will not get it done. Not even with a ridiculously good defense like SF had last year.

[QUOTE]I agree that he needs to still improve, but it would be nice if he had more than Harvin to throw to. Look how awesome Smith has been this year with a couple more competent WR's at his disposal.[/QUOTE]

His two leading receivers were on this team last year. So I'm not seeing your point. Crabtree and Davis are getting the same attention they did last year, all that's changed is Smith is playing better. People have to understand this - in this league QBs make skill players better, rarely the other way around.

[QUOTE]Also the offense looked fine against Tennessee, they put up 30 points with an injured Adrian Peterson![/QUOTE]

Fine yes. Impressive? No.

#19 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:55 AM

The 49ers added Manningham and Moss, while neither is a pro bowl caliber WR they are both pretty damn legit and open the field up quite a bit (leaving Davis and Crabtree to see more single man coverages) Hell Manningham or Moss would be the 2nd best WR on the Vikes roster currently. (I like Simpson, but he is injured and sounds like it will be nagging the rest of the year) This is why I think Smith has been able to take that jump from solid to very good/great this season. Or maybe its just taken him 6 years to progress, who knows.

The problem with the Vikes is after Harvin they don't have any legit WR's just a bunch of guys who should be #4's or so. Jenkins is awful and Aroshmandu isn't bad as a 4. I like what Rudolph has done but he's more around league average then great.

I wish we could find someone who grows tired of a WR and flip them for Toby Gerhart at some point this season.

#20 TheLeviathan

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:04 PM

I don't disagree that we could upgrade our WR depth, I disagree that is it crippling our offense. The QB can do a lot at the line and during a play to work people open and to throw people open. (Odd term, but it's one thing Rodgers is particularly good at)

Manningham and Moss are not drawing double teams. It's absurd to think teams are saying "I'll let Crabtree and Davis beat me....but not an ancient Randy Moss!" Again, Smith is playing better and is utilizing his skill players better. Which is what Ponder needs to do.

#21 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:11 AM

I don't disagree that we could upgrade our WR depth, I disagree that is it crippling our offense. The QB can do a lot at the line and during a play to work people open and to throw people open. (Odd term, but it's one thing Rodgers is particularly good at)

Manningham and Moss are not drawing double teams. It's absurd to think teams are saying "I'll let Crabtree and Davis beat me....but not an ancient Randy Moss!" Again, Smith is playing better and is utilizing his skill players better. Which is what Ponder needs to do.


Honestly I don't think anything is crippling our offense, the offense the past 3 games has looked pretty good. Obviously in Detroit they didn't put up gaudy numbers, but that is because they were playing with a lead and trying to run the clock out. I think they only had him throw the ball like 8-10 times in the 2nd half alone. I do agree he could have played better that game as it was definitely his worst.

I mean at the end of the day he is getting it done, 69% Comp percentage, 95.5 Passer Rating, 7 total TDS vs 2 turnovers 70.64 QBR Rating. Has he made mistakes? Of course. Has he looked "sexy" out there all the time? Nope. But in this case IMO the numbers don't lie, he is getting the job done and the Vikes are 4-1 exceeding all of our expectations. I do think he needs to continue to improve though, but I am pleased with his improvement over last year for sure!

One thing I would like to see the Vikes do is call a couple designed QB sneaks for him. The guy has some decent wheels on him and it could only help further open up the field for him.

#22 TheLeviathan

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:04 AM

Look, he's better than I expected, I won't deny that. And the 49er game impressed the hell out of me. But the offense hasn't been very good, I need to see it be more than Percy and the offensive line carrying the load before I start being impressed overall.

#23 luke829

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:04 PM

The defense seemed to be absent in today's game, granted the turnovers weren't helping anything.
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#24 TheLeviathan

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:35 PM

Some of the stats look nice today but Ponder had some simply terrible throws. Held the ball too long all day as well. And this was the kind of performance I was worried our defense was capable of, I'm not sure what the real identity is yet.

#25 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:38 PM

Ponder looked like dog**** today, terrible passes and terrible decisions all day.

I'm not super worried about the defense yet, RGIII exposed there one real weakness which is lack of speed, fortunately the majority of QBs from here on out aren't exactly the running types:

Freeman, Kolb, Wilson, Rodgers, Cutler, Shaub,Bradford, etc

The frustrating thing with this game is the Vikes should have been up 17-0 in the 1st quarter, not 9-0, you GOT to put the ball in the endzone in this league, and they let the Redskins back into it. Couple that with two gift INT/TD's from Ponder and the Vikings were screwed.

****ty cause they should/could have won this game. Now they gotta win the next two against Zona and TB to keep us in a good spot. @Seattle looks like a damn tough game. But if we can go into the bye at 6-3 we at least set ourselves up for a legit playoff run.

I still maintain this team needs another threat at WR, you could tell the Skins were keying off on Peterson and Harvin all day. Jenkins had a nice catch and Rudolph had a nice game, but it would be so nice if we had someone we could throw a jump ball or something to in the endzone (or go deep) I almost wonder if it would be worth trying to bring on Plaxico Burress? Dude actually played somewhat decent last year and I think could be solid as long as we don't need him as a #1. Thoughts?

Edited by SpiritofVodkaDave, 14 October 2012 - 09:40 PM.


#26 TheLeviathan

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:53 PM

Yeah, defensive speed is lacking. I thought when we went up 9-0 that we were in trouble, we invited the Skins to get a ton of momentum out of those failed opportunities.

#27 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:19 PM

Yeah, defensive speed is lacking. I thought when we went up 9-0 that we were in trouble, we invited the Skins to get a ton of momentum out of those failed opportunities.


This seems to have been an issue all year, the Detroit game was a good example to, some real nice drives that got stalled out. It would be so nice to have a big WR to toss it to in the red zone, since Harvin and Peterson are more or less going to be guarded very closely.

#28 TheLeviathan

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:33 PM

This seems to have been an issue all year, the Detroit game was a good example to, some real nice drives that got stalled out. It would be so nice to have a big WR to toss it to in the red zone, since Harvin and Peterson are more or less going to be guarded very closely.


I guess I thought the issue has been they haven't run enough.

#29 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:29 AM

This seems to have been an issue all year, the Detroit game was a good example to, some real nice drives that got stalled out. It would be so nice to have a big WR to toss it to in the red zone, since Harvin and Peterson are more or less going to be guarded very closely.


I guess I thought the issue has been they haven't run enough.


I agree, they seemed to just decent stretches without giving peterson the ball at all.

One thing I do like is them including Adrian more and more in the passing game.

#30 Willihammer

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:07 AM

I cry a little bit when Ponder lines up in the shotgun.

Defense looked like the 2011 squad again, made the Skins receiving core look like the 2001 Rams. Whatever their gameplan was, it failed fantastically. AVATAR wins again.