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Article: The Curious Case of Anthony Slama

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#1 Cody Christie

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 07:47 PM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...f-Anthony-Slama

#2 ScottyB

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 07:53 PM

"has posted an ERA under 3.00 with more walks than strikeouts."

Make that more strikeouts than walks

#3 Thrylos

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:19 PM

I totally agree with this, with the exception of this little thing:

He isn't going to blow batters away but he gets the job done


as a matter of fact his k/9 ratio indicated that he has been blowing batters away in every level. Even in his much maligned MLB SSS 7 IP he has a 10.3 K/9
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#4 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:29 PM

When we eventually lose Slama - these will be my parting words for him:

"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."

#5 Shane Wahl

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 11:16 PM

It really isn't a curious kind of situation. This organization is stuck in the 20th century. It believes in seeing-eye scouting predominantly. Statistics "lie" is clearly the mantra.

#6 old nurse

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:05 AM

It really isn't a curious kind of situation. This organization is stuck in the 20th century. It believes in seeing-eye scouting predominantly. Statistics "lie" is clearly the mantra.


I am all for giving Slama a chance. Your line is preposterous. Metrics alone do not predict major league success. David McCarty comes to mind as he tore up the minor leagues, fizzled at the majors. There is a clear difference between the skill levels of the players at different levels . To the Twin's credit they are not public about their perceptions of what is lacking in Slama's pitching. On the other hand, they must still be interested in him when discussing winter baseball option.
.

#7 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:05 AM

It really isn't a curious kind of situation. This organization is stuck in the 20th century. It believes in seeing-eye scouting predominantly. Statistics "lie" is clearly the mantra.


Having studied statistics in school (I was a math major) I know that statistics can be made to say just about anything you want. They can be a helpful tool, but I would never trust them completely in making decisions. They are an aid to the decision-making process, but not the sole (or even the most important) aid.

About the article, well written and cogently argued. That said, how many more "Free Slama" articles are we going to have? At what point does this become dead-horse-beating?

#8 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:35 AM

Hope nobody lights a match, all those straw men will burn down.

Another Slama thread, really?

#9 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:44 AM

Hope nobody lights a match, all those straw men will burn down.

Another Slama thread, really?


It's an article, not a thread. Articles are automatically generated as a forum topic.

#10 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:44 AM

At what point do we just rename the site: SlamaDaily?

#11 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:45 AM

At what point do we just rename the site: SlamaDaily?


Parmelee and Slama are the only interesting topics on the Twins right now. It's not surprising that many of the TD writers want to take a shot at interpreting the situation.

#12 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:47 AM

At what point do we just rename the site: SlamaDaily?


Parmelee and Slama are the only interesting topics on the Twins right now. It's not surprising that many of the TD writers want to take a shot at interpreting the situation.

A RP who can't even hit 89 on the radar gun? I guess we have different opinions on what is interesting.

#13 JB_Iowa

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:50 AM

The title of the article is clear. If you didn't want to read another take on the handling of Slama, you didn't need to read it. And you didn't need to comment.

It doesn't surprise me that Cody wrote a piece about Slama for his blog, "North Dakota Twins Fan" and I appreciate that his blog entries are also posted here at TD.

#14 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:56 AM

A RP who can't even hit 89 on the radar gun? I guess we have different opinions on what is interesting.


What's interesting about Slama is his situation, not necessarily the pitcher himself. He could fail as a MLB reliever. The interesting question is "why isn't he getting a shot instead of Gray/Perdomo/scrub reliever?"

#15 biscuit

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:02 AM

Slama really did not look good in his two stints with the Twins. But there are guys who look a hell of a lot worse who get longer looks. I think he must have insulted the manager in some way: maybe called him 'fat, balding.'

#16 JB_Iowa

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:08 AM

Does anyone remember the circumstances under which Slama was called up in 2011? Just went and saw that he had 2.1 IP with 0H, 0R, 2 BB, 1 WP and 3 SO.

Wondered what happened that he only got in 2 games. Was someone just out for a day or two? Again, with how bad this club was, it seems just downright weird that they didn't keep him with the club for more than 2 games. I know they hate walks but it's not like their other relievers were all that effective -- maybe Matt Capps didn't walk anybody but it seemed like he always put at least 1 runner on base before he worked his way out of an innning.

Edited by JB_Iowa, 06 September 2012 - 08:10 AM.
added the WP


#17 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:12 AM


A RP who can't even hit 89 on the radar gun? I guess we have different opinions on what is interesting.


What's interesting about Slama is his situation, not necessarily the pitcher himself. He could fail as a MLB reliever. The interesting question is "why isn't he getting a shot instead of Gray/Perdomo/scrub reliever?"


The team has answered that question several times. The question has become do fans know more than the Twins FO on player development?

This actually sorta reminds me of the Kila Ka'aihue situation in KC. KC fans demanded that Ka'aihue be brought up - he had dominated the minors (although prospect sites weren't as heavy on him). He got 12 games in the majors at 24, spent all of his age 25 season back in AAA, as well as most of his age 26 season. In 5 seasons at AAA (over 400 games) he had an OPS over .900 while drawing nearly as many walks as strike outs. KC fans were going crazy that he didn't get a shot since KC sorta sucked while letting vets like Mike Jacobs play first base. Things from the FO like his defense is horrible, he has plate issues, he can't hit ML pitching were part of some vast conspiracy by a FO afraid of stats. Of course, he was a disaster at the ML level, traded for a crappy relief pitcher and DFA'd by Billy Beane.

#18 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:14 AM

Does anyone remember the circumstances under which Slama was called up in 2011? Just went and saw that he had 2.1 IP with 0H, 0R, 2 BB, 1 WP and 3 SO.

Wondered what happened that he only got in 2 games. Was someone just out for a day or two? Again, with how bad this club was, it seems just downright weird that they didn't keep him with the club for more than 2 games. I know they hate walks but it's not like their other relievers were all that effective -- maybe Matt Capps didn't walk anybody but it seemed like he always put at least 1 runner on base before he worked his way out of an innning.


I think someone came back of the DL and then Slama was sent back to AAA and got hurt and missed a lot of time.

#19 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:46 AM

[quote name='gunnarthor'][quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='SpiritofVodkaDave']
A RP who can't even hit 89 on the radar gun? I guess we have different opinions on what is interesting.[/QUOTE]

What's interesting about Slama is his situation, not necessarily the pitcher himself. He could fail as a MLB reliever. The interesting question is "why isn't he getting a shot instead of Gray/Perdomo/scrub reliever?"[/QUOTE]

The team has answered that question several times. The question has become do fans know more than the Twins FO on player development?

This actually sorta reminds me of the Kila Ka'aihue situation in KC. KC fans demanded that Ka'aihue be brought up - he had dominated the minors (although prospect sites weren't as heavy on him). He got 12 games in the majors at 24, spent all of his age 25 season back in AAA, as well as most of his age 26 season. In 5 seasons at AAA (over 400 games) he had an OPS over .900 while drawing nearly as many walks as strike outs. KC fans were going crazy that he didn't get a shot since KC sorta sucked while letting vets like Mike Jacobs play first base. Things from the FO like his defense is horrible, he has plate issues, he can't hit ML pitching were part of some vast conspiracy by a FO afraid of stats. Of course, he was a disaster at the ML level, traded for a crappy relief pitcher and DFA'd by Billy Beane.[/QUOTE]

No matter what you think of Slama, this team kept Jeff Gray on its roster for a good portion of the season. Jeff Gray is an awful major league baseball pitcher. We knew that from day one. Nothing he did had any indication that he would stick in the majors (literally, zero indication), yet the team stuck with him for at least two months.

If the team wanted to see Perdomo so badly, why didn't it happen earlier and why isn't Slama getting a shot in September? Why did the front office stick with a guy who was so freakin' awful that even the most casual fan could tell he was not major league material? On that basis alone, Slama deserved a shot after the "scholarship" comments when JR returned to the GM spot.

I don't care that much about Slama. He could fail spectacularly. That's not the point. The point is that a guy who earned a shot at the majors is not getting it in favor of playing a combination of talentless scrubs for a good portion of the season.

#20 Shane Wahl

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:53 AM

It really isn't a curious kind of situation. This organization is stuck in the 20th century. It believes in seeing-eye scouting predominantly. Statistics "lie" is clearly the mantra.


Having studied statistics in school (I was a math major) I know that statistics can be made to say just about anything you want. They can be a helpful tool, but I would never trust them completely in making decisions. They are an aid to the decision-making process, but not the sole (or even the most important) aid.

About the article, well written and cogently argued. That said, how many more "Free Slama" articles are we going to have? At what point does this become dead-horse-beating?


So what distortion is being made about Slama's statistics? No one is saying that they should be "trusted completely" but rather that perhaps we should be able to get some more Slama statistics . . . as in his major league stats.

#21 snepp

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:21 AM

At what point do we just rename the site: SlamaDaily?


Or, WhatDaveApprovesOfDaily?
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#22 Steve Lein

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:44 AM

(apologies in advance for the long comment, I've been on the Slama Bandwagon for years)

Some career AAA numbers of current Bullpen arms for the Twins and others given the opportunity Slama has not:

Player A: 198.2 IP, 219 hits allowed, 101 BB's, 1.435 WHIP, 142 K's, 3.94 ERA.
Player B: 254 IP, 290 hits allowed, 78 BB's, 1.449 WHIP, 186 K's, 3.97 ERA.
Player C: 205.2 IP, 186 hits allowed, 54 BB's, 1.167 WHIP, 193 K's, 3.46 ERA.
Player D: 33.2 IP, 32 hits allowed, 15 BB's, 1.396 WHIP, 39 K's, 4.01 ERA.
Player E: 23.1 IP, 31 hits allowed, 9 BB's, 1.714 WHIP, 21 K's, 5.79 ERA.
Player F: 201.2 IP, 208 hits allowed, 51 BB's, 1.284 WHIP, 120 K's, 3.21 ERA.
Player G: 188 IP, 192 hits allowed, 87 BB's, 1.484 WHIP, 126 K's, 4.07 ERA.

Now, you might look at those numbers and say, okay, a few of them maybe are/were worth a look. But keep in mind, these are all RELIEF PITCHERS. None of those numbers are dominant. Not a single one with an ERA below 3.00, and only one who has managed to strikeout more than 1 batter per inning.

Now of course, I give you the same career AAA line for Anthony Slama:

154.1 IP, 105 hits allowed, 74 BB's, 1.160 WHIP, 191 K's, 2.27 ERA.

This isn't rocket science, the guy deserves a chance. I understand fully that he doesn't have the "stuff" that maybe some of those other guys above do (A through G: Jeff Gray, Jeff Manship, Casey Fien, Tyler Robertson, Alex Burnett, Kyle Waldrop, Luis Perdomo) and he walks quite a few (but is actually not worse than a few of those guys either in that regard), but do you want outs, or "stuff"?! Is he the second coming of Pat Neshek? Probably not. Is he a shoe-in for MLB success? I wouldn't go that far either, but there's gotta be room for him on a team this bad.
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#23 SeanS7921

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:45 AM

First, I think Slama should be up with the club due to his performance this year. That said I don't think he will be taken in the rule 5 draft. Relief pitchers usually aren't taken he would need to remain on the Big league roster the entire year and he is a risk. Also, Slama has hurt himself with bad luck. I believe he would have been called up earlier in the year but missed two months with an injury and he has had injuries last year that cost him as well. When he has been up in the majors he hasn't looked dominate which the Twins probably noticed as well. These are pretty big factors to why Slama isn't playing for the Twins. I think he gets a chance at the Bigs next year especially if he can stay healthy.

#24 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:52 AM

First, I think Slama should be up with the club due to his performance this year. That said I don't think he will be taken in the rule 5 draft. Relief pitchers usually aren't taken he would need to remain on the Big league roster the entire year and he is a risk.


He's almost a zero risk in the Rule V draft. He has dominated AAA for multiple seasons and is now healthy after being injured in previous drafts. Where is the risk? You pay a little money, put the guy on your roster, and see what he does. If he fails, just give him back to the Twins. No loss outside of the $50,000 or whatever it costs to acquire a Rule V guy.

#25 Rosterman

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 11:46 AM

Well, Slama got thru the system last year because he was injured, which also hurt his chances for a call-up at the end of 2011. Seems that when he got injured this year, he deep-sixed his big opportunity. He came back gangbusters, but the Twins see the need to have a longer look at Waldrop and others. But think about this, to escape the Rule 5 the Twins just need to add Slama to the 40-man. They do this is November and its for 2013. There is really no reason to add him for 2012. They still have the options of sending him up and down. And (correct me if I am wrong) he was only on the 40-man in 2010 and 2011, so the Twins can still have another year even to fool with him if he continues to shore an upsize, 2014. Shades of Pat Neshek for an aging reliever that may shine for a few years for minimal pay. Maybe management knows how to run things more than, say, us fans!

#26 Alex

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 02:25 PM

(apologies in advance for the long comment, I've been on the Slama Bandwagon for years)

Some career AAA numbers of current Bullpen arms for the Twins and others given the opportunity Slama has not:

Player A: 198.2 IP, 219 hits allowed, 101 BB's, 1.435 WHIP, 142 K's, 3.94 ERA.
Player B: 254 IP, 290 hits allowed, 78 BB's, 1.449 WHIP, 186 K's, 3.97 ERA.
Player C: 205.2 IP, 186 hits allowed, 54 BB's, 1.167 WHIP, 193 K's, 3.46 ERA.
Player D: 33.2 IP, 32 hits allowed, 15 BB's, 1.396 WHIP, 39 K's, 4.01 ERA.
Player E: 23.1 IP, 31 hits allowed, 9 BB's, 1.714 WHIP, 21 K's, 5.79 ERA.
Player F: 201.2 IP, 208 hits allowed, 51 BB's, 1.284 WHIP, 120 K's, 3.21 ERA.
Player G: 188 IP, 192 hits allowed, 87 BB's, 1.484 WHIP, 126 K's, 4.07 ERA.

Now, you might look at those numbers and say, okay, a few of them maybe are/were worth a look. But keep in mind, these are all RELIEF PITCHERS. None of those numbers are dominant. Not a single one with an ERA below 3.00, and only one who has managed to strikeout more than 1 batter per inning.

Now of course, I give you the same career AAA line for Anthony Slama:

154.1 IP, 105 hits allowed, 74 BB's, 1.160 WHIP, 191 K's, 2.27 ERA.

This isn't rocket science, the guy deserves a chance. I understand fully that he doesn't have the "stuff" that maybe some of those other guys above do (A through G: Jeff Gray, Jeff Manship, Casey Fien, Tyler Robertson, Alex Burnett, Kyle Waldrop, Luis Perdomo) and he walks quite a few (but is actually not worse than a few of those guys either in that regard), but do you want outs, or "stuff"?! Is he the second coming of Pat Neshek? Probably not. Is he a shoe-in for MLB success? I wouldn't go that far either, but there's gotta be room for him on a team this bad.


Great summary.

The AAA competition issue is baffling to me. If these other pitchers are better than Slama, why don't they actually, you know, pitch better than him?

#27 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 03:41 PM

Well, Slama got thru the system last year because he was injured, which also hurt his chances for a call-up at the end of 2011. Seems that when he got injured this year, he deep-sixed his big opportunity. He came back gangbusters, but the Twins see the need to have a longer look at Waldrop and others. But think about this, to escape the Rule 5 the Twins just need to add Slama to the 40-man. They do this is November and its for 2013. There is really no reason to add him for 2012. They still have the options of sending him up and down. And (correct me if I am wrong) he was only on the 40-man in 2010 and 2011, so the Twins can still have another year even to fool with him if he continues to shore an upsize, 2014. Shades of Pat Neshek for an aging reliever that may shine for a few years for minimal pay. Maybe management knows how to run things more than, say, us fans!


A+ post!

#28 snepp

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 03:55 PM

The AAA competition issue is baffling to me. If these other pitchers are better than Slama, why don't they actually, you know, pitch better than him?


Well, it works a little something like this....

Slama's "stuff" doesn't "play" at the ML level, while the "stuff" those other guys have (apparently) does. But it's special "stuff" they possess, it doesn't work at the AAA level.

I don't know what to say, I tried. *shrug*
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#29 The Greatest Poster Alive

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 04:33 PM

I agree that based on the terrible performance of the rest of this roster, there's no point in keeping him in AAA... let him have his one shot.

That being said... I am curious about the success rate of relievers that throw <89 MPH... off the top of my head i can't think of many that started their careers with this little "stuff." It's one thing for a veteran reliever to hold on as his velocity dims... but to start a career with a noodle like this? I doubt it's very effective

(again, don't get my skepticism about Slama's abilities with a belief that he shouldn't get a chance to pitch at the MLB level)

#30 Rick Niedermann

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:16 PM

A RP who can't even hit 89 on the radar gun? I guess we have different opinions on what is interesting.
Funny thing is Jake Peavy was sitting right around 89 yesterday and baffled the Twins all day. His numbers say he is better then half of the Twins staff right now. Swarzak is a AAAA pitcher, Perdomo is AAA, Robertson AAA, Manship...is just Manship, bad. On and on. The Twins management, scouts etc are not always right. Brian Harper comes to mind. Kelly hated him. But he couldn't keep him out of the lineup cuz he just kept hitting....for 6 years at a .300 clip. At any rate, a look see for on a team about to lose 90+ games just makes sense. And the Twins blew it and pissed off their fan base.