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Article: SP Depth Chart - 8/22

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#1 Nick Nelson

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:29 PM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...epth-Chart-8-22

#2 glunn

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:56 PM

These rankings seem fair to me, but maybe you might consider BJ Hermsen as a possible #11.

After looking at this, I would expect the Twins to lose 90+ games next year unless they can get some better starters. The only player on the list who seems semi-solid is Diamond, and it seems to me that there is a high probability every other player listed could be a disaster in 2013.

#3 Nick Nelson

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:43 PM

Hermsen is on the fringe, but I think the Twins are going to move fairly slow with him. Doubt we'll see him up before midway through 2013 at the earliest.

I think this list makes it clear that the Twins need a lot of help toward the top. At least 2-3 of the guys currently in the top five should be sitting on the outside as depth and insurance.

#4 old nurse

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:03 AM

Would it be worth the Twins looking to the independent leagues for some starting pitting. Scott Kasmir hasn't quite found himself yet, but a Jason Lane might be a worthwile look in spring.

#5 weinshie

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:53 AM

Reasonable list, but shouldn't the title be "SP Shallow Chart"? Sorry, couldn't help myself!

#6 beckmt

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 03:25 AM

This list shows how bad the Twins starting pitching is. TR has a lot of work to do this offseason. Do not think any of the AAA or AA types will help at this time.

#7 stringer bell

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 04:17 AM

Walters is almost done rehabbing, correct? He probably figures in the list as well.

#8 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 05:59 AM

Would it be worth the Twins looking to the independent leagues for some starting pitting. Scott Kasmir hasn't quite found himself yet, but a Jason Lane might be a worthwile look in spring.


I hear there's some guy named Clemens who might be worth a look.:)

#9 twinswon1991

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:05 AM

Looks like 100 losses to me. A monkey could draft and develop better than that.

#10 Visnovsky

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:26 AM

What a pathetic group of pitchers to make a major league rotation. If I were the GM, I would want to punch a wall every time I saw Bill Smith walking around the office.

#11 Riverbrian

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:29 AM

Looks like 100 losses to me. A monkey could draft and develop better than that.


A monkey???

I admit it's possible that a Monkey could draft better... But Develop better??? A Monkey??? Now you are being silly!!!

A monkey couldn't lead by example cuz of Monkey Physiology and you also have a vocal communication problem because of the high screeching sounds that most species make.

#12 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:33 AM

Looks like 100 losses to me. A monkey could draft and develop better than that.


Your schtick is tired. You repeat the same point over and over and over again. We get it. You don't like the front office.

Stop repeating the same "argument" (for lack of a better term) to the point of nausea. You're bringing absolutely nothing to the forum with these posts. We're instituting new rules on chronic negativity and you will put yourself at risk of a temporary ban if you keep it up.

#13 twinswon1991

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:54 AM

Looks like 100 losses to me. A monkey could draft and develop better than that.


Your schtick is tired. You repeat the same point over and over and over again. We get it. You don't like the front office.

Stop repeating the same "argument" (for lack of a better term) to the point of nausea. You're bringing absolutely nothing to the forum with these posts. We're instituting new rules on chronic negativity and you will put yourself at risk of a temporary ban if you keep it up.



Go ahead and ban me tough guy. Are you that insecure that if someone disagrees with you on a subject your only reaction is to boot them?

It is hard to believe there would be any negativity after 2 straight 99+ loss seasons with no end in site.

Why dont you just admit that you are trying to kiss up to the Twins by trying to positively spin every disaster in hopes of getting a job with them or some insider info?

If you boot me I'll just go back to the only fair and balanced (non ass kissing) Twins site on the web: aarongleeman.com.

#14 mike wants wins

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:18 AM

Let's hope they acquire two legit options in the off-season. I do think there are three MLB level starters on that list....

#15 Fire Dan Gladden

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:36 AM

[quote name='twinswon1991'][quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='twinswon1991']Looks like 100 losses to me. A monkey could draft and develop better than that.[/QUOTE]

Your schtick is tired. You repeat the same point over and over and over again. We get it. You don't like the front office.

Stop repeating the same "argument" (for lack of a better term) to the point of nausea. You're bringing absolutely nothing to the forum with these posts. We're instituting new rules on chronic negativity and you will put yourself at risk of a temporary ban if you keep it up.[/QUOTE]


Go ahead and ban me tough guy. Are you that insecure that if someone disagrees with you on a subject your only reaction is to boot them?

It is hard to believe there would be any negativity after 2 straight 99+ loss seasons with no end in site.

Why dont you just admit that you are trying to kiss up to the Twins by trying to positively spin every disaster in hopes of getting a job with them or some insider info?

If you boot me I'll just go back to the only fair and balanced (non ass kissing) Twins site on the web: aarongleeman.com.[/QUOTE]

Brock,

I agree that twinswon1991 does absolutely nothing but stir the pot. His comments are almost always inflammatory and provide little insight other than he does not like the current management system and anybody who works for the Twins. I personally do not think he brings anything constructive to this website. hat being said, I don't think he deserves a ban at this time.

Posters like him always make me laugh. He rips and rips on the team, yet calls himself a fan. Nothing in the way of how to get better, other than to fire everybody. No comments on realistic ways to improve the team, no constructive comments on why the team is struggling, no constructive comments on some of the positive things (which there are some), just fire everybody. I'll bet he listens to the Common Man and Barrero every day, and devours everything Mackey and Reusse say. Everybody knows he brings nothing to the table, let him squeak his peace then move on to the next topic. Posters like him show that this is a public site. As long as he refrains from personally attacking anybody, he isnt worth the time to monitor.

Worry more about the personal attacks and the spam then about posters whose only intention is to anger you. BTW, I am huge fan of Gleeman. When he ultimately moves up in the world and gives up his site, it will be missed.

#16 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:40 AM

Gibson should be higher then 9.

#17 Winston Smith

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:48 AM

Reasonable list, but shouldn't the title be "SP Shallow Chart"? Sorry, couldn't help myself!



The only way "depth" should be used here is for how far under water this group is. This is a sad bunch for a supposed major league team.

#18 Mr. Ed

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:02 AM

Dice K 1-hit the Twins AAA affiliate over 8 innings. MN could make him their big off-season acquisition :P

#19 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:03 AM

Dice K 1-hit the Twins AAA affiliate over 8 innings. MN could make him their big off-season acquisition :P


Their track record on Asian players has been stellar to this point. I say they go for it.

#20 JB_Iowa

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:15 AM

I appreciate the effort to lay out the list, Nick. It doesn't do anything for my lack of optimism about this team but it does provide a nice summary of information.

I want to add one response about Bill Smith, though. He was definitely not my favorite person -- and I made a number of posts on the Strib site last year calling for him to be fired -- but blaming all of this on Bill Smith (per one of the posts above) is ludicrous. Other than Smith, the SAME people are involved in the decision-making now. Same scouting director, same Assistant GM, same director of player personnel, same minor league coordinator -- and your current GM was a "Special Assistant" to Smith (primarily dealing with scouting matters as I understand it). The Twins front office has always worked cooperatively -- Smith may have been the final say but he relied on information from everyone else. I have no doubt that Terry Ryan excercises a greater degree of personal judgment and has significantly more "baseball savvy" to back up his decisions -- but the underpinnings of the Twins decision-making system all remain the same.

#21 cr9617

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:24 AM

Looks like 100 losses to me. A monkey could draft and develop better than that.


Your schtick is tired. You repeat the same point over and over and over again. We get it. You don't like the front office.

Stop repeating the same "argument" (for lack of a better term) to the point of nausea. You're bringing absolutely nothing to the forum with these posts. We're instituting new rules on chronic negativity and you will put yourself at risk of a temporary ban if you keep it up.


Get over yourself Brock.

The team stinks as a result of an organization that can seem to tie their own shoe laces. What is there to be positive about?

#22 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:35 AM

Get over yourself Brock.

The team stinks as a result of an organization that can seem to tie their own shoe laces. What is there to be positive about?


If you have an issue with how I do things, feel free to PM me about it.

As for "getting over myself", this has little to do with my personal feelings and everything to do with the quality of the forum posts.

#23 3up3down

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:35 AM

this shows why alot of young pitchers try to pitch thru injuries, walters was in the discussion with diamond before he got injured....just shows its better to be bad than injured..

#24 CRArko

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:37 AM

The team stinks as a result of an organization that can seem to tie their own shoe laces. What is there to be positive about?


That you're not Cubs fans.

#25 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:38 AM

The problem isn't being negative, the problem is continuing to beat the same dead horse over and over again without bringing any substance or value to threads.

He wouldn't be banned because he was sour on the Twins, he would be banned because he was acting like a God Damned child. There are plenty of posters here who are very negative on the Twins these days, but still bring value and thoughts to a thread.

#26 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:42 AM

The problem isn't being negative, the problem is continuing to beat the same dead horse over and over again without bringing any substance or value to threads.

He wouldn't be banned because he was sour on the Twins, he would be banned because he was acting like a God Damned child. There are plenty of posters here who are very negative on the Twins these days, but still bring value and thoughts to a thread.


ding ding ding

My point has little to do with negativity. It's about negativity and post content. Some people are negative and deliver their thoughts in a clear, well-articulated manner. We encourage those posters to keep doing what they do. To put it bluntly, this team sucks. Changes need to be made. We want posters to talk about what should be done in-depth, even (especially) if their views on the organization aren't pie-in-the-sky rosy.

But if your schtick is to deliver a one-liner that could be cut and paste into 90% of your posts and nobody would notice the difference, that's not adding anything of substance to the board while it does irritate other posters who are attempting to have a rational discussion of the topic at hand. In short, those people are "net loss" posters. They add nothing while detracting significantly.

#27 Riverbrian

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:51 AM

The problem isn't being negative, the problem is continuing to beat the same dead horse over and over again without bringing any substance or value to threads.

He wouldn't be banned because he was sour on the Twins, he would be banned because he was acting like a God Damned child. There are plenty of posters here who are very negative on the Twins these days, but still bring value and thoughts to a thread.


ding ding ding

My point has little to do with negativity. It's about negativity and post content. Some people are negative and deliver their thoughts in a clear, well-articulated manner. We encourage those posters to keep doing what they do. To put it bluntly, this team sucks. Changes need to be made. We want posters to talk about what should be done in-depth, even (especially) if their views on the organization aren't pie-in-the-sky rosy.

But if your schtick is to deliver a one-liner that could be cut and paste into 90% of your posts and nobody would notice the difference, that's not adding anything of substance to the board while it does irritate other posters who are attempting to have a rational discussion of the topic at hand. In short, those people are "net loss" posters. They add nothing while detracting significantly.


Brock... Are you saying that discussion of Monkeys and their ability to run a MLB franchise isn't worth anyone's time.

What if you had an infinite amount of monkeys and an infinite amount of typewriters and an infinite amount of time?

Using that system... It's possible that we end up with Clayton Kershaw on our roster along with Sally Struthers.

#28 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 09:09 AM

So to be honest with this list, I think most teams would be happy to have Diamond next year and rely on one of Hendricks/Gibson to be starters. The rest classify as depth for an AAA rotation. This team needs 3 SPs up at the top. It would be in their best interest to make a calculated FA splash on one guy, trade Span or Morneau for another, and sign a couple of guys to very cheap prove it contracts like they did with Zumaya last season. I don't necessarily expect it to work, but it is the type of deal you do because every now and then, a team gets a guy like Erik Bedard on the cheap. But the reality is that this rotation is pretty bad. I wouldn't mind seeing them give Vasquez a shot just to see if his peripherals can hold up in Minnesota, but given his age, I'm not expecting much.

#29 Winston Smith

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 09:18 AM

I appreciate the effort to lay out the list, Nick. It doesn't do anything for my lack of optimism about this team but it does provide a nice summary of information.

I want to add one response about Bill Smith, though. He was definitely not my favorite person -- and I made a number of posts on the Strib site last year calling for him to be fired -- but blaming all of this on Bill Smith (per one of the posts above) is ludicrous. Other than Smith, the SAME people are involved in the decision-making now. Same scouting director, same Assistant GM, same director of player personnel, same minor league coordinator -- and your current GM was a "Special Assistant" to Smith (primarily dealing with scouting matters as I understand it). The Twins front office has always worked cooperatively -- Smith may have been the final say but he relied on information from everyone else. I have no doubt that Terry Ryan excercises a greater degree of personal judgment and has significantly more "baseball savvy" to back up his decisions -- but the underpinnings of the Twins decision-making system all remain the same.


+++++++

#30 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 09:21 AM

Brock... Are you saying that discussion of Monkeys and their ability to run a MLB franchise isn't worth anyone's time.

What if you had an infinite amount of monkeys and an infinite amount of typewriters and an infinite amount of time?

Using that system... It's possible that we end up with Clayton Kershaw on our roster along with Sally Struthers.


More Sally, less Nishi!

Though I could only imagine the fights over the buffet table. Ten bucks says either Sally or Capps would be on the DL within a week.