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Pavano Done

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#1 DPJ

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:26 PM

http://hardballtalk....new-diagnsosis/

It’s too bad it took three months diagnose that. I could have been resting. The good news is, it doesn’t require surgery. I’ve had this in the past and gotten through it, and obviously I’ve pitched a lot since then. But as far as I’m concerned, this whole season has been a failure on many levels, for myself, for the team. It’s just kind of lousy that it took this long.


And a nice shot at the Twins Medical Staff on the way out the door.

#2 Mauerzy4Prez

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:39 PM

Can somebody please find a JPEG of the angry mob that went to kill frankestein's beast and post it on here for me? I am at work and can't get through our privacy blocks.......

Seriously though, this is so ridiculous it's not even funny. If TR wants to save himself a whole lot of headaches, and potentially keep his job. I'd like to think that he is having his HR department cut final paychecks right now for the entire medical staff.

#3 Willihammer

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:44 PM

How do you rehab a bruised bone, rest it? Has Zorro been throwing BP for the last three months?

#4 Mauerzy4Prez

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:47 PM

How do you rehab a bruised bone, rest it? Has Zorro been throwing BP for the last three months?


I bruised a bone on the top of my right foot when I was young and it is incredibly painful. There is a lot of swelling, and really the only thing you can do is rest and ice it. Surgery won't help anything... The Twins medical staff may have reinstated the nickname "American Idle" for Pavano...

#5 Jim Crikket

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:48 PM

Pavano went on to say he'd take the blame. As he should. After all, ANY Twins player who has so much as a hangnail and doesn't get several opinions outside of the Twins so-called medical staff should accept the blame for just being stupid.
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#6 Mauerzy4Prez

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:48 PM

How do you rehab a bruised bone, rest it? Has Zorro been throwing BP for the last three months?


I bruised a bone on the top of my right foot when I was young and it is incredibly painful. There is a lot of swelling, and really the only thing you can do is rest and ice it. Surgery won't help anything... The Twins medical staff may have reinstated the nickname "American Idle" for Pavano...


..... P.s. my bruised bone was diagnosed by a simple x-ray at an urgent care in Ft. Myers Beach FL while I was on spring break vacation. It took our staff over 3 months to diagnose Pavano. DOH!!!

#7 Twins Twerp

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:50 PM

https://encrypted-tb...ATr3CWbSR_JhH_Y

Twins training staff does it again. When I think of twins training staff I think of those doctors you hear about sometimes in the news that weren't actually doctors. The ones who somehow got into the hospital and started prescribing meds and before they knew it they were full fledged doctors, without the training. Thats what I think of.

#8 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:51 PM

So the solution this time was actually rest and rehab...interesting.

#9 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:51 PM

My question is, if he's had this before (and I take him at his word for that) why didn't he recognize the symptoms himself? If he suspected it, did he never raise that possibility himself? And how many other doctors has he been to besides those on the Twins staff?

I have the same concerns about the Twins medical staff as everyone else, but I have to think there's more to the story than a couple of soundbites from Pavano himself, given in a moment of (understandable) frustration.

#10 Mauerzy4Prez

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:52 PM

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7Ggt9KxDvCHB_FNalYeIRw9yjw2hNj1Gw-ATr3CWbSR_JhH_Y

Twins training staff does it again. When I think of twins training staff I think of those doctors you hear about sometimes in the news that weren't actually doctors. The ones who somehow got into the hospital and started prescribing meds and before they knew it they were full fledged doctors, without the training. Thats what I think of.


LOL Nice... is this after they toppled the statue of Sadaam in Iraq or after the Medical staffs office was set on fire?

#11 Mauerzy4Prez

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:53 PM

My question is, if he's had this before (and I take him at his word for that) why didn't he recognize the symptoms himself? If he suspected it, did he never raise that possibility himself? And how many other doctors has he been to besides those on the Twins staff?

I have the same concerns about the Twins medical staff as everyone else, but I have to think there's more to the story than a couple of soundbites from Pavano himself, given in a moment of (understandable) frustration.


Any other person than Pavano and I'd agree with your last point... Every time I hear him speak he holds himself accountable for his mistakes and sometimes others. He is a team guy, and if he is expressing frustration in the staff, it tells me that this was mostly on them.

#12 SweetOne69

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:56 PM

Just to play devil's advocate, why would/should the medical staff examine the elbow when the player is complaining about a shoulder issue?

There is a major difference in location between rotator cuff weakness and a bruised humorous. Also if Pavano has had it before, couldn't have brought up his opinions with the doctors?

#13 Thrylos

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:59 PM

That was so easy to see coming from miles away.

Capps is done too btw...
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#14 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:05 PM

I'd rather hire some witch doctors or go with TCM before the Twins current staff.

#15 TwinsMusings

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:16 PM

http://www.twincitie...wn-season-after

Shipley's story has a bit more detail. From one of Pavano's quotes it sounds like there was more than one injury and he and the trainer did get the shoulder rehabbed, but still had pain. Does anybody remember when Pavano might have been hit on the arm by a come-backer causing the bruise? In spring training?

Hard to see how the Twins will be interested in bringing him back unless he is willing to take substantially less in guaranteed salary.

#16 CRArko

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:18 PM

If this was private practice there would likely be a malpractice suit brewing. I suppose the teams are indemnified in the CBA, though.

You wonder when Nishioka began moonlighting as a doctor...

#17 jokin

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:18 PM

Just to play devil's advocate, why would/should the medical staff examine the elbow when the player is complaining about a shoulder issue?

There is a major difference in location between rotator cuff weakness and a bruised humorous. Also if Pavano has had it before, couldn't have brought up his opinions with the doctors?


If you can't laugh at the ridiculous state of the Twins medical staff, the diagnosis must be a bruised humorous.

#18 gunnarthor

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:20 PM

Too bad. I liked Pavano. And this certainly doesn't look good for the medical staff. We'll see what Ryan says about it.

#19 jokin

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:22 PM

Too bad. I liked Pavano. And this certainly doesn't look good for the medical staff. We'll see what Ryan says about it.


Where are all those folks who kept insisting all year that Ryan needs to be given more time to fully assess the situation?

Answer: Running for the tall grass...

#20 Mr. Ed

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:24 PM

That was so easy to see coming from miles away.

Capps is done too btw...


yes

and yes

Go into next year with co-closers. AND

get another set up guy ready, so Gardy can figure out how to use Perkins/Burton besides the 9th inning after some slug has blown the close game open.

#21 Thrylos

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:25 PM

I think that the medical staff screwed up big time this season with (Chronologically) :

Zumaya (evaluation when they signed him)
Baker
Wimmers
Capps
Pavano
Plouffe (I hope I am wrong, but, again...)

Here are some fun numbers.

The cost of the Twins' 12 highest paid pitchers this February:
(in $MM)

Pavano 8.5
Baker 6.5
Liriano 5.5
Blackburn 4.75
Capps 4.5
Marquis 3
Perkins 1.55
Burton .75
Zumaya .85
3 at .5

Total $37.4 M

$ wasted for medical reasons: 20.35 or 54.4%

$ wasted for bad contracts (Blackburn and Marquis) : 7.75 or 20.7 %

Total Money wasted for medical reasons and bad contracts about 75%

So these Twins threw away 3/4 of what they spend for their 2012 pitching staff... How can a team not suck if they do that?
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#22 jokin

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:27 PM

I think that the medical staff screwed up big time this season with (Chronologically) :

Zumaya (evaluation when they signed him)
Baker
Wimmers
Capps
Pavano
Plouffe (I hope I am wrong, but, again...)

Here are some fun numbers.

The cost of the Twins' 12 highest paid pitchers this February:
(in $MM)

Pavano 8.5
Baker 6.5
Liriano 5.5
Blackburn 4.75
Capps 4.5
Marquis 3
Perkins 1.55
Burton .75
Zumaya .85
3 at .5

Total $37.4 M

$ wasted for medical reasons: 20.35 or 54.4%

$ wasted for bad contracts (Blackburn and Marquis) : 7.75 or 20.7 %

Total Money wasted for medical reasons and bad contracts about 75%

So these Twins threw away 3/4 of what they spend for their 2012 pitching staff... How can a team not suck if they do that?


Stop writing so quickly, Ryan can't assess the situation that fast.

#23 jokin

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:30 PM

I think that the medical staff screwed up big time this season with (Chronologically) :

Zumaya (evaluation when they signed him)
Baker
Wimmers
Capps
Pavano
Plouffe (I hope I am wrong, but, again...)

Here are some fun numbers.

The cost of the Twins' 12 highest paid pitchers this February:
(in $MM)

Pavano 8.5
Baker 6.5
Liriano 5.5
Blackburn 4.75
Capps 4.5
Marquis 3
Perkins 1.55
Burton .75
Zumaya .85
3 at .5

Total $37.4 M

$ wasted for medical reasons: 20.35 or 54.4%

$ wasted for bad contracts (Blackburn and Marquis) : 7.75 or 20.7 %

Total Money wasted for medical reasons and bad contracts about 75%

So these Twins threw away 3/4 of what they spend for their 2012 pitching staff... How can a team not suck if they do that?


Does TR get a Good Stewardship Conduct Medal for the ~$2M saved by dumping Liriano?

#24 DPJ

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:32 PM

Does TR get a Good Stewardship Conduct Medal for the ~$2M saved by dumping Liriano?


The Pohlad wallet salutes this post.

#25 Winston Smith

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:33 PM

Makes me wonder about Slowey and his wrist injury. He was never the same after he came back, how has Hardy been doing he was injured all the time, isn't that one of the reasons he had to go? Way way to many of these injury screw ups, imo.

#26 twinsnorth49

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:33 PM

Too bad. I liked Pavano. And this certainly doesn't look good for the medical staff. We'll see what Ryan says about it.


Where are all those folks who kept insisting all year that Ryan needs to be given more time to fully assess the situation?

Answer: Running for the tall grass...


I'm still here, I believe Ryan will get this organization all on the same page and moving forward by next year. I'm certainly not going to say everything has gone according to plan and that hasn't burned some goodwill but I'm willing to wait until next year to see how he reacts, not how he overreacts.

#27 jokin

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:38 PM

[quote name='twinsnorth49'][quote name='jokin'][quote name='gunnarthor']Too bad. I liked Pavano. And this certainly doesn't look good for the medical staff. We'll see what Ryan says about it.[/QUOTE]

Where are all those folks who kept insisting all year that Ryan needs to be given more time to fully assess the situation?

Answer: Running for the tall grass...[/QUOTE]

I'm still here, I believe Ryan will get this organization all on the same page and moving forward by next year. I'm certainly not going to say everything has gone according to plan and that hasn't burned some goodwill but I'm willing to wait until next year to see how he reacts, not how he overreacts.[/QUOTE]

With regards to the pitching staff, I'm hard-pressed in saying that anything has gone according to plan. The closest I can come to finding was Jared Burton--- But was Burton a plan? Or more of a prayer?

#28 jwestbrock

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:43 PM

Just to play devil's advocate, why would/should the medical staff examine the elbow when the player is complaining about a shoulder issue?

There is a major difference in location between rotator cuff weakness and a bruised humorous. Also if Pavano has had it before, couldn't have brought up his opinions with the doctors?


If I was them I would do both, every time. In high school I had shoulder/lat weakness that cause me to drop my elbow and it messed with my elbow. I also broke my hand and had hand/wrist weakness. The doctor said I was good and didn't need any rehab, so most any high school senior would do, I went out and started throwing, my first bullpen session I had a very sharp pain in my shoulder and I was done for the year because I was overcompensating for my wrist with my shoulder.

Moral of the story: it is a decent idea to check both on the chance one caused the other. In this case maybe the bruise caused the shoulder or throwing with shoulder issues caused the bruise.

#29 one_eyed_jack

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:44 PM

Too bad. Had Pavano been healthy and had even an average season by his standards, it could have made a big difference.

I'm going to refrain from the joining the chorus of critics dumping on the Twins medical staff. I'm not a doctor, and I don't see what they do every day. So I don't feel as though I have the expertise or knowledge of what they do to make a judgment about their performance. I do know that their job is not easy. There's often not a clear best course of action, and players aren't always entirely honest and forthcoming.

I'm not trying to defend them, maybe they really are awful at what they do.

I just don't know enough about it to play armchair medical expert. Others obviously feel differently, and that's fine.

It's a common phenomenon on issues of the day. Like when there's a major US Supreme Court case and suddenly everyone and their grandmother is a constitutional law scholar. Or when we're involved in armed conflict, anyone who has ever served in the military, known anyone who has served in the military, or seen both Platoon and Saving Private Ryan is apparently qualified to appear on TV with the phrase "military expert" next to their name.

#30 gunnarthor

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 04:02 PM

With regards to the pitching staff, I'm hard-pressed in saying that anything has gone according to plan. The closest I can come to finding was Jared Burton--- But was Burton a plan? Or more of a prayer?


I think the team did a pretty good job fixing/restocking the bullpen, honestly. Coming into the season that was everyone's nightmare. Before the season there wasn't a lot of concern over the starting pitching (some but it fell behind the bullpen and lineup).

As to the medical staff, I'm interested in what Ryan says about it. I'm not an expert so I won't accuse them of screwing things up (others are doing that enough anyway). But we certainly aren't the only team going ballistic over our medical staff - KC and Boston are right there with us.