Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

The Store

Photo

Strasburg

  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,017 posts

Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:02 AM

I think anyone bashing the Nationals for their gameplan with him are absolutely insane.
Strasburg has a hall of fame potential, and there is zero reason to risk losing him permanently.

The NL East should be very winnable for the next few seasons as the Phillies are a mess, the Mets are the Mets and the Braves never want to win anything, in addition the Nationals should only be getting stronger moving forward. At the end of the day Strasburg is the nationals property, they need to do what is best to make sure that property gets its maximum value.

ESPN had that bumbling idiot Tim Mcarver on Sporstscenter and he was bashing the Nationals. On another note, I sort of hope McCarver has some deviant sex scandal come to light, since fox seems content on keeping his dumb ass on national TV for every single playoffs.

#2 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 968 posts

Posted 15 August 2012 - 04:44 PM

The Braves never want to win anything? What in the heck does that mean?! LOL
Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

#3 notoriousgod71

notoriousgod71

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 997 posts

Posted 15 August 2012 - 04:53 PM

It is assenine. If they're intent on keeping his innings down, just skip a start here or there. Taking him out of the playoffs would be the worst thing they could do. The playoffs don't come around every year. They need to take every opportunity to try and win while they can.

#4 YourHouseIsMyHouse

YourHouseIsMyHouse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,235 posts

Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:31 PM

I don't mind what they're doing. I think they should keep his innings down because the season does wear down on younger players who don't have their arms stretched out like the vets. What I'd propose for them is only let him work 4 innings per start so he can go in the season a little deeper.

#5 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 7,219 posts

Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:14 PM

I understand and respect the innings limit. I think it's smart. However, they've been saying they would do it all season. I don't understand why they didn't give him a 15 day DL stint in mid-May and another one in early July or something. He's a difference maker. He's very good, dominant. The kind of guy that you'd really want in the playoffs! I'd be upset if I was on that team.

#6 notoriousgod71

notoriousgod71

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 997 posts

Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:24 PM

I don't mind what they're doing. I think they should keep his innings down because the season does wear down on younger players who don't have their arms stretched out like the vets. What I'd propose for them is only let him work 4 innings per start so he can go in the season a little deeper.


Joba thinks that will certainly keep him healthy and a better pitcher because of it.

#7 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 4,913 posts

Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:26 PM

Didn't a recent study show that the babying of pitchers was actually causing more injuries? I can't remember where that was from on BYTO. Either way, this is the same team that let him pitch in the all-star game and could've just skipped a start here and there and not created this stupid situation.

#8 greengoblinrulz

greengoblinrulz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,759 posts

Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:44 PM

There is absolutely NO data that shows lowering the pitchers innings after TJ surgery is harmful/good. Its all doctor opinion. There are cases on both sides of the arguement. Pitchers recovered from TJ have argued this point this summer. It's a case by case basis.
WASH/Rizzo didnt think they would be in the playoff hunt/this has caught them by surprise. There wasnt any press when they did it last yr for Jordan Zimmerman.
The fact that a team front office would effectively 'not give its all' in the playoffs is embarrassing. There are players upset with this as they know that no matter how strong WASH looks, there is no guarrantee that they will be back in the playoffs in the next few yrs. 4 more yrs from now, after protecting Strasburg (in their eyes), he can still just leave em as a FA with nothing to look back on but 'what ifs' on their playoff run that could've been.

#9 minn55441

minn55441

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 512 posts

Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:06 PM

I understand and respect the innings limit. I think it's smart. However, they've been saying they would do it all season. I don't understand why they didn't give him a 15 day DL stint in mid-May and another one in early July or something. He's a difference maker. He's very good, dominant. The kind of guy that you'd really want in the playoffs! I'd be upset if I was on that team.


I agree Seth. this discussion has been going on all season. I understand that they have to be careful about starting to limit his innings or start giving him forced DL stints, only to go on a losing street and miss the playoffs. It would be similar to starting your touchdown celebration at the 10 yard line only to be caught from behind and tackled before you hit the end zone. You have to make the playoffs before you can start worrying about how you are going to play in the postseason. With that said, I see it as a better option to skip every other start from here on out. What ever it takes to make sure he still has enough innings left for several October starts.

#10 greengoblinrulz

greengoblinrulz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,759 posts

Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:22 PM

Another thing that I think makes Wash look bad is Stras is now 2 full yrs removed from surgery.....not one year. If this year were his first innings back from surgery, I would think about his differently....but he was back & rehabbing strong last year.
I wouldnt have a problem with 180IP, if they woulda announced that number earlier. You can work with that. It the change to 180IP after they took massive heat all yr.
I have no problem with Kyle Gibson bein kept at 180 next yr, but Mn already showed how they believe in their rehab by havin FLiriano go 200IP (majors/minors) in his first yr back in 08

#11 gil4

gil4

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 587 posts

Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:52 PM

There is absolutely NO data that shows lowering the pitchers innings after TJ surgery is harmful/good.


I believe there is a study showing that teenagers who have TJ and then start pitching a lot of innings again have a high injury recurrence rate. Nothing for professional pitchers in their 20's yet.

I know there were concerns that giving him a 15 day DL stint and then throwing him back into the rotation without working him back up to it would be more harmful than just racking up the innings. They seem pretty convinced that shutting him down is the only way to go.

I still think that when you have a chance to win it all, you do what you can to do it. You don't hold back for another opportunity because it might not come.

#12 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,017 posts

Posted 16 August 2012 - 10:19 AM

I understand and respect the innings limit. I think it's smart. However, they've been saying they would do it all season. I don't understand why they didn't give him a 15 day DL stint in mid-May and another one in early July or something. He's a difference maker. He's very good, dominant. The kind of guy that you'd really want in the playoffs! I'd be upset if I was on that team.


He will be even more dominant next year and in the future. I guess they could have DL'ed him, but perhaps shutting him down, then ramping him back up causes issues as well.

They took the same approach with Zimmerman and it appears to have paid off, I don't blame them one bit for doing it with Stras.

Also, people act like the Nationals will suddenly be not able to compete in the playoffs, the rotation is still pretty damn solid with Gonzalez/Zimm/Jackson, even without Stras pitching 1 to 2 times a series I still think they have just as good of a chance to win it all as any of the NL teams do.

Also, the Nationals most certainly will be better in the future, Ramos will be back, Harper will only be getting better, Rendon will be knocking on the door and guys like Cole and Meyer should be up in a couple years making a great rotation even better. In addition, they have shown in the past that they are willing to be a big player on the FA market, people forget that they were a big player for Prince Fielder last off-season (along with another top FA the year before IIRC) now that the Nats are a legit team, free agents will actually start signing with them. Yes, nothing is guaranteed in this game, but I'd be willing to bet anyone that the Nats make the playoffs at least 2 more times in the next 4 years.

As mentioned before:
The Phillies are a disaster, The Mets are the Mets and the Marlins tore it all down, the only thing they have to "worry" about are the Braves, who the nationals will be a far superior team moving forward.

#13 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,315 posts

Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:14 AM

I think people look at this too simply from a number of innings POV. All of the talk of shutting him down and starting back up could be dangerous to a hard thrower like Strasburg. The problem with Strasburg's recovery is that he isn't like other pitchers. I'm not sure if he'll have a long career under the most ideal circumstances. I just hope that we get to see 4-5 years of Strasburg.

#14 Pius Jefferson

Pius Jefferson

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 380 posts

Posted 16 August 2012 - 05:38 PM

He only had like 44 innings pitched last season. A bump up to even 160 ip is pretty high. Asking him to go over 200 innings seems excessive. Especially for a pitcher who had to have TJ surgery so soon after he turned professional.

#15 B Richard

B Richard

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 492 posts

Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:50 PM

I hope Strasburg doesn't have to work around an innings limit next season. It's understandable this year coming off TJ surgery, but the general trend of babying pitchers with no injury history really grinds me. With that said, if the Nats want a pennant, Strasburg throws 200+ innings next year.

#16 B Richard

B Richard

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 492 posts

Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:53 PM

I think anyone bashing the Nationals for their gameplan with him are absolutely insane.
Strasburg has a hall of fame potential, and there is zero reason to risk losing him permanently.

The NL East should be very winnable for the next few seasons as the Phillies are a mess, the Mets are the Mets and the Braves never want to win anything, in addition the Nationals should only be getting stronger moving forward. At the end of the day Strasburg is the nationals property, they need to do what is best to make sure that property gets its maximum value.

ESPN had that bumbling idiot Tim Mcarver on Sporstscenter and he was bashing the Nationals. On another note, I sort of hope McCarver has some deviant sex scandal come to light, since fox seems content on keeping his dumb ass on national TV for every single playoffs.


I absolutely loathe Mccarver and his ridiculous comments and assertions. I can't remember if it was him or Joe Buck, but one of the two made some wise crack about Roberto Clemente just deciding to "quit" at 3000 hits, seemingly unaware of his tragedy.

#17 Pius Jefferson

Pius Jefferson

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 380 posts

Posted 18 August 2012 - 01:58 AM

Not a McCarver fan but I can't believe he would have said Clemente decided to quit at 3,000 hits. Unless he had some inside knowledge that Clemente was going to retire.

#18 Top Gun

Top Gun

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,253 posts

Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:33 AM

Ya baby him that will get it done!

#19 Tcrose3636

Tcrose3636

    Member

  • Members
  • 65 posts

Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:16 PM

This innings limit is fine, but why the hell aren't they skipping starts instead of shutting him down prior to and during the playoffs? I like the Nats but am now secretly hoping that they don't ever make the playoffs again and then Stras leaves because of it. I don't get the logic of them not skipping starts.

#20 biggentleben

biggentleben

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 968 posts

Posted 23 August 2012 - 08:25 PM

This innings limit is fine, but why the hell aren't they skipping starts instead of shutting him down prior to and during the playoffs? I like the Nats but am now secretly hoping that they don't ever make the playoffs again and then Stras leaves because of it. I don't get the logic of them not skipping starts.


The way Stras goes max effort and high velo, the worst thing would be to stop and try to start again. If anything, they'd move him to the bullpen. You don't stop and go full on again, that'd be very dangerous to the arm.
Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

#21 notoriousgod71

notoriousgod71

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 997 posts

Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:07 PM

This has the potential to be one giant disaster for the Nats.

#22 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,445 posts

Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:44 PM

I understand and respect the innings limit. I think it's smart. However, they've been saying they would do it all season. I don't understand why they didn't give him a 15 day DL stint in mid-May and another one in early July or something. He's a difference maker. He's very good, dominant. The kind of guy that you'd really want in the playoffs! I'd be upset if I was on that team.


Agreed 100%. If they were planning to cap his innings, they should have had the foresight to shut him down throughout the season instead of at the end so he misses the playoffs.

But I don't blame them for capping his innings. 160 is a lot for a guy his age returning from TJS.

#23 Top Gun

Top Gun

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,253 posts

Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:45 PM

I hope they lose the 1st round of the playoffs and never get there again. Stupid is what stupid does.

#24 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,315 posts

Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:55 AM

I understand and respect the innings limit. I think it's smart. However, they've been saying they would do it all season. I don't understand why they didn't give him a 15 day DL stint in mid-May and another one in early July or something. He's a difference maker. He's very good, dominant. The kind of guy that you'd really want in the playoffs! I'd be upset if I was on that team.


Agreed 100%. If they were planning to cap his innings, they should have had the foresight to shut him down throughout the season instead of at the end so he misses the playoffs.

But I don't blame them for capping his innings. 160 is a lot for a guy his age returning from TJS.


People act like starting and stopping or shifting him to the bullpen is the same capping his innings. it's not and it probably more dangerous than having him simply pitch for the whole season.

#25 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,445 posts

Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:01 AM

People act like starting and stopping or shifting him to the bullpen is the same capping his innings. it's not and it probably more dangerous than having him simply pitch for the whole season.


It would have been tricky to figure out but it's not as if the Nationals are in the middle of a pennant race. They have a comfy lead on the Braves and could have sat Strasburg through the entirety of July and some of June if they wanted to do it.

#26 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,017 posts

Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:45 AM

I hope they lose the 1st round of the playoffs and never get there again. Stupid is what stupid does.


That wont be the case.

#27 DPJ

DPJ

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 636 posts

Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:04 AM

I get the innings cap, it makes sense for a guy coming back from TJ. But the Nationals should also think that more then likly Strasburg isn't gonna be around for the next decade plus in Washington. He's got Boras as an agent and you know damn well Boras already has a 200 page binder ready to pass out to teams at the winter meetings in 2017 when Strasburg is a free agent. If anything I say run that arm into the ground and get as many bullets as you can before the chamber is empty.

#28 mbents

mbents

    Member

  • Members
  • 38 posts

Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:27 AM

It would have been tricky to figure out but it's not as if the Nationals are in the middle of a pennant race. They have a comfy lead on the Braves and could have sat Strasburg through the entirety of July and some of June if they wanted to do it.


Did they have a comfy lead in June and July? I thought things were a little tighter then. I don't really remember, though.

I understand why they would want to limit his innings and it makes sense, but I think they could have executed it better. They are much better than they thought they would be and now they find themselves in this situation. The Nats have been pretty healthy and things have gone well for them, so I think they should go for it. That doesn't mean they should pull a Dusty Baker and run Strasburg into the ground, but if they have a shot at winning the World Series and they shut down their best pitcher, then that's stupid. You never know what's going to happen in the future. Players could get injured or have bad seasons, and then you look back at 2012 and wonder what could have been if Strasburg had pitched in a few more games. You have to go for it if you have a chance.

#29 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,445 posts

Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:47 AM


It would have been tricky to figure out but it's not as if the Nationals are in the middle of a pennant race. They have a comfy lead on the Braves and could have sat Strasburg through the entirety of July and some of June if they wanted to do it.


Did they have a comfy lead in June and July? I thought things were a little tighter then. I don't really remember, though.


I don't think anyone has pressured them in quite some time but admittedly, I don't follow the NL East on a daily basis. I'm sure Ben knows. He's a Braves fan.

#30 Willihammer

Willihammer

    ice cream correspondent

  • Members
  • 2,810 posts
  • LocationSaint Paul

Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:58 AM

The Nats are good without him, better with him. But I guess in the race for a playoff spot you burn up your best guys first like in a game sitaution. I can see both arguments.