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#1 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:57 AM

With the season about to get underway, we thought it was a good idea to create a place to talk specifically about the Vikings and the NFL in general. Now talk.

#2 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:18 PM

I believe the best way to start this forum off is to wish serious bodily harm to Christian Ponder in hopes that another awful season will land us a legit NFL QB like Barkley and not Pennington the Second.

#3 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:22 PM

I believe the best way to start this forum off is to wish serious bodily harm to Christian Ponder in hopes that another awful season will land us a legit NFL QB like Barkley and not Pennington the Second.


As an outsider looking in, it's always comical to see Vikings fans wish for an awful season so they can go draft another quarterback.

#4 Fatt Crapps

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:29 PM

Oh come on guys. Haven't you heard the reports that he's "light-years" ahead of last year? Super Bowl or bust!!

#5 Fatt Crapps

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:34 PM

Remember when Joe Webb single-handedly won a game in 2010? (A loss would've netted them Patrick Peterson instead of the almighty Ponder) Remember when he did it again last year? (Would've received multiple picks from the Redskins, or just kept RG3) If you're trying to rebuild a franchise, why in the hell do you attempt to win that absolutely meaningless game? And what other franchise would rush their best player back with 2 games remaining and a 2-12 record when he's not close to 100%?

#6 fatbeer

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 04:27 PM

Never use early 1st round picks on QB's. For every Peyton Manning theres 2 Akili Smiths. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rogers can be had without being fools.

#7 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 05:11 PM

As an outsider looking in, it's always comical to see Vikings fans wish for an awful season so they can go draft another quarterback.


Yeah, it's a revolving door alright - but god do I hate that pick of Ponder.

#8 Kobs

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 05:58 PM

I always thought this was a bit dumb in the old place, why not just make this a football forum?

#9 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 06:24 PM

I always thought this was a bit dumb in the old place, why not just make this a football forum?


That's basically what it is. There won't be an NFL forum.

#10 Badsmerf

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 09:36 PM

Yeah, it's a revolving door alright - but god do I hate that pick of Ponder.


As do I. Unfortunately, we are going to be force fed the BS that he is legit and made strides in the offseason. Whatever. I would take Farve now over Ponder.

#11 DPJ

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:46 AM

Never use early 1st round picks on QB's. For every Peyton Manning theres 2 Akili Smiths. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rogers can be had without being fools.


Yeah cause it's just so easy to luck into a Brady, Breese and Rogers.

#12 TheLeviathan

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:14 AM

As do I. Unfortunately, we are going to be force fed the BS that he is legit and made strides in the offseason. Whatever. I would take Farve now over Ponder.


That's why I think only bodily harm to Ponder can save us. Wanna flip the coin for which one of us is Tanya Harding and which is Shane Stant?

#13 DPJ

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:54 AM

That's why I think only bodily harm to Ponder can save us. Wanna flip the coin for which one of us is Tanya Harding and which is Shane Stant?


You should be rooting for Ponder to stay healthy and just suck as he more then likely will. If he gets hurt then the fron office is just gonna give him another season and a bunch of excuses.

I'm rooting for Ponder to stay healthy, start all 16 and make Tarvaris look like Johnny U.

#14 fatbeer

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:25 AM

Yeah cause it's just so easy to luck into a Brady, Breese and Rogers.


The point is there are just as many elite later picked QB's as elite top 5 pick QB's. If you have a top 5 pick you can not skrew it up and drafting a QB is the easiest way to skrew it up.

#15 DPJ

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:28 AM

The point is there are just as many elite later picked QB's as elite top 5 pick QB's. If you have a top 5 pick you can not skrew it up and drafting a QB is the easiest way to skrew it up.


Huh?

#16 fatbeer

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:47 AM

Huh?


Sometimes QB's taken in the top 5 aren't very good at football for example Rick Mirer, Akili Smith, Alex Smith, JaMarcus Russle, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch. I'm sick of 35 year old's finishing there career as Vikings, but that approach is actually very logical. Drafting QB's is like drafting goalies in hockey, unless they are hall of famers or close to it they are a waste of a pick.

#17 DPJ

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:15 AM

Sometimes QB's taken in the top 5 aren't very good at football for example Rick Mirer, Akili Smith, Alex Smith, JaMarcus Russle, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch. I'm sick of 35 year old's finishing there career as Vikings, but that approach is actually very logical. Drafting QB's is like drafting goalies in hockey, unless they are hall of famers or close to it they are a waste of a pick.


That's the worst logic I've ever heard not to draft a certain position. I don't care what the bust propobility is, if Andrew Luck, RG3, Newton, Bradford or whatever top ranking QB is on the board and you need one a QB...you take him.

#18 fatbeer

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 12:26 PM

It's only bad logic if theres no other way to get pro bowl QB play. The Vikings have proven thats not the case. It's a scarce position, but it's not like elite starting pitching or elite goal scorers in hockey or elite point guards. I can live with using 2nd round picks on QB's until one hit's but you can't use two first round picks on QB's in 3 years. The kid from USC is not in the same class as Luck Newton or RG3. He'll be picked #1 because the best QB always is if he's at least competent, but he's probably not a top 10 pick talent. The best approach is to trade down a few spots take and the QB if he's still there, but overvaluing a guy because you hope he's on your roster 8 years down the line is silly.

#19 DPJ

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:20 PM

It's only bad logic if theres no other way to get pro bowl QB play. The Vikings have proven thats not the case. It's a scarce position, but it's not like elite starting pitching or elite goal scorers in hockey or elite point guards. I can live with using 2nd round picks on QB's until one hit's but you can't use two first round picks on QB's in 3 years. The kid from USC is not in the same class as Luck Newton or RG3. He'll be picked #1 because the best QB always is if he's at least competent, but he's probably not a top 10 pick talent. The best approach is to trade down a few spots take and the QB if he's still there, but overvaluing a guy because you hope he's on your roster 8 years down the line is silly.


How the hell else go you get elite QB play then drafting them? Elite QB's don't hit the open market and the Farve's of the world just don't fall into a teams lap to play outta his mind for a season. The bottom line is top ranked QB's in the draft more often turn into elite QB's then the guys in the 2nd round and beyond. Yes the Brese and Brady of the world are always gonna exist and yes the Smith, Carr, Russel, Harrington of the world are always gonna exist...but the Mannings, Big Ben, Stafford, Ryan, Flacco, Rivers, Vick and gang of other early first round QB's says otherwise.

#20 fatbeer

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 02:02 PM

The Vikings have proven for 20 years there always proven QB's available.

#21 DPJ

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:24 PM

The Vikings have proven for 20 years there always proven QB's available.


And they have what to show for it...a couple of choke jobs in NFC Championship games?

NTM the game is different now, it's a QB driven league. The days of surrounding enough talent around a Brad Johnson or Cunningham are over.

#22 TheLeviathan

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:00 AM

And they have what to show for it...a couple of choke jobs in NFC Championship games?

NTM the game is different now, it's a QB driven league. The days of surrounding enough talent around a Brad Johnson or Cunningham are over.


Exactly. You either have a great QB or you have no chance. Sorry, it's the sad fate of the NFL we live in.

#23 Fatt Crapps

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 11:13 AM

"John Sullivan, one of the best centers in the league.." - Paul Allen

#24 Reginald Maudling's Shin

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:31 PM

That's why I think only bodily harm to Ponder can save us. Wanna flip the coin for which one of us is Tanya Harding and which is Shane Stant?


You should be rooting for Ponder to stay healthy and just suck as he more then likely will. If he gets hurt then the fron office is just gonna give him another season and a bunch of excuses.

I'm rooting for Ponder to stay healthy, start all 16 and make Tarvaris look like Johnny U.


Yeah, they're going to give him 2 more years at least. Injuries would only prolong the evaluation period.
I don't know if Ponder will be any good or not, and with this bastard remnant of the kickass offense where they refuse to throw the ball down field nobody else will know until his contract is up. I'm sure he looks awesome in practice against Viking defensive backs though.

I have a better scenario: Ponder looks terrible first 5 games, Frazier flips out and goes to Joe Webb, who sucks equally. The rest of the year plays out with musical chairs lousy QBs, the Wilfs clean house and hire someone to hire someone to run the show.

BTW why do you fire a coach and keep his top assistant? Who does that? (Sorry that's last years argument but still frustrating.)

#25 Gernzy

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 09:13 AM

I don't get all the hate for Ponder. He only played half of the season and he wasn't terrible! This season will be make or break for him, but at least give him a chance. You're writing him off before he can show what he can do with a full off-season under his belt.
I bent my wookie...

#26 DPJ

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 10:03 AM

I don't get all the hate for Ponder. He only played half of the season and he wasn't terrible! This season will be make or break for him, but at least give him a chance. You're writing him off before he can show what he can do with a full off-season under his belt.


I never thought Ponder should have been drafted as high as he was. The Vikings locked in on the QB and hell or high water they were gonna draft one even though there were better players on the board still.

Bad pick, bad qb...I just want him to fail in spectacular fashion so the Vikings will realize he's worthless and move on.

#27 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 01:36 PM

I don't get all the hate for Ponder. He only played half of the season and he wasn't terrible! This season will be make or break for him, but at least give him a chance. You're writing him off before he can show what he can do with a full off-season under his belt.


I don't get it either, yes he was a reach in the draft. But you will soon learn that people like Lev and DPJ will root against him every chance they get, just because he was a reach when they drafted him.

Don't get me wrong, I am very skeptical with what Ponder can bring to the table, but I at least want to give him a season before I declare him a guy with no future.

#28 TheLeviathan

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:51 PM

I don't get all the hate for Ponder. He only played half of the season and he wasn't terrible! This season will be make or break for him, but at least give him a chance. You're writing him off before he can show what he can do with a full off-season under his belt.


I don't get it either, yes he was a reach in the draft. But you will soon learn that people like Lev and DPJ will root against him every chance they get, just because he was a reach when they drafted him.

Don't get me wrong, I am very skeptical with what Ponder can bring to the table, but I at least want to give him a season before I declare him a guy with no future.


If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But this is a guy with injury problems, a questionable arm, and happy feet. I'm not encouraged. In a league this QB-driven, anything short of a stud is a waste of time.

#29 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 12:42 AM

[quote name='TheLeviathan'][quote name='SpiritofVodkaDave'][quote name='Gernzy']I don't get all the hate for Ponder. He only played half of the season and he wasn't terrible! This season will be make or break for him, but at least give him a chance. You're writing him off before he can show what he can do with a full off-season under his belt.[/QUOTE]

I don't get it either, yes he was a reach in the draft. But you will soon learn that people like Lev and DPJ will root against him every chance they get, just because he was a reach when they drafted him.

Don't get me wrong, I am very skeptical with what Ponder can bring to the table, but I at least want to give him a season before I declare him a guy with no future.[/QUOTE]

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But this is a guy with injury problems, a questionable arm, and happy feet. I'm not encouraged. In a league this QB-driven, anything short of a stud is a waste of time.[/QUOTE]

I just don't get the point in actively saying how awful he is all the time. In reality we have no idea how he will preform, the odds are stacked against him no doubt, but he still could become a solid QB, QB's in the NFL honestly are tough to predict.

I don't think anyone is claming that Ponder was some great pick, but at this point he is the best drafted QB we have grabbed in quite some time! Might as well give him a shot.

The whole "you need an elite QB to win a super bowl" may not be totally correct, its just heavily weighted since Brady and Eli (who considred him elite before the playoffs last year?) have won a ton of those over the past decade.

#30 anthonyq77

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:30 AM

Eli is not an elite QB. I'm sorry but being good enough in close games with a great team around you does not ELITE make. Peyton is 10 times the qb that Eli could ever wish to be.