Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

The Store

Recent Blogs

Photo

Article: Trading Season Opens: Prepare For Disappointment

  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 Jim Crikket

Jim Crikket

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,114 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:10 AM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...-Disappointment
I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~

#2 freightmaster

freightmaster

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:20 AM

very well written, we have to dump liriano now, if its to yankees, they wont worry about re-signing him, if he performs, they will ante up, no problem, so its got to be to a money team to get anything respectable

#3 ScottyB

ScottyB

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 541 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:39 AM

People seem to forget that Matt Capps actually has an option for 2013 of $6M (with a 250K buyout), so his tradability is more than a 3 month buy. If he is used as a closer or an 8th inning setup guy, $6M is a very reasonable salary for 2013.

#4 Kobs

Kobs

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 301 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 10:32 AM

Doumit cannot realistically be traded.

#5 Badsmerf

Badsmerf

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,614 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 10:37 AM

Hammel from the O's just went down. Could make things interesting.

#6 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 4,441 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:15 PM

common Terry... work your mojo and flip Liriano to NY for Michael Pineda... /pipedream

#7 glunn

glunn

    Head Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 5,091 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:25 PM

The disappointment would be more tolerable if SOMEONE were to be fired, even if it's only TC Bear.

#8 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,204 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:27 PM

People seem to forget that Matt Capps actually has an option for 2013 of $6M (with a 250K buyout), so his tradability is more than a 3 month buy. If he is used as a closer or an 8th inning setup guy, $6M is a very reasonable salary for 2013.


I beg to disagree... check how much the Twins are paying Burton now and how much they paid to extend Perkins. $6 for Capps is way too much. If he were a lights out type of closer, that would had been a better story...

Back to the original post. Great job JC. Good stuff. But the bottom line is: if TR does not bring new players to make this team competitive, he should be gone for failure to perform his job.
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#9 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,747 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:54 PM

$6MM for a closer on a 90 loss team? Or use that money to get some starters? No contest. Great article, and I agree, I'm going to be disappointed. I just don't see them pulling off the kind of trade I'd like, nor signing FAs in the offseason the way I would.

#10 ScottyB

ScottyB

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 541 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 02:07 PM

What I meant is that Capps' value as trade bait is not as a 3-month rental. I agree that he is unneeded on the current team. But he is a 28 year old with closing experience and therefore would have more value to a contending team than a nothing body in return. MLB Trade Rumors says that the Angels are interested in Liriano and Capps - I think a nice package could come back in return if they package the two together. We might be able to get a few high upside potential starters from the low minors in return.

#11 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,747 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 02:13 PM

Ah, well, with that I agree, ScottyB.
Lighten up Francis....

#12 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 4,441 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 03:17 PM

Just looking at trade volumes over the years says that the bulk of the team will still be donning a Twins uni come Aug 1. It will be a good deadline if TR can get Liriano and Span moved for some AA starting pitching.

#13 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,890 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 15 July 2012 - 03:26 PM

I think you can only be disappointed if you have unreal expectations. They are not going to blow up the team. Liriano and Capps are almost certainly the only people that will be traded before August 1 (Pavano could be a waiver trade), and neither of them will get will bring a huge package in return - though the Liriano return will be OK. Span gets traded during the winter.

#14 Jim Crikket

Jim Crikket

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,114 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 03:59 PM

Thanks to the TwinsDaily crew for the bump up to the "big board" and to everyone who left comments. ScottyB, you're right, I should have at least made reference to Capps' option. I guess I'm just not as convinced as you are that it will matter. There are 2 weeks left before the non-waiver deadline and I'll be surprised if he does anything in that period of time that makes a potential trade partner think that the option is worth upping their ante. Any GM considering Capps has to establish his value right now as a damaged set up man with questionable velocity. His history as a closer will not, in my opinion, increase his trade value in the next two weeks. Maybe by August, if he's still around as a waiver trade, that could change.

#15 Dilligaf69

Dilligaf69

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 365 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 05:47 PM

Well they are not trading Diamond that i can promise you.!

#16 jimbo92107

jimbo92107

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 546 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:03 PM

I would trade Capps back to the Nationals for Ramos and his torn up knee. Capps is a nice guy, but he still seems to lack a serious repertoire of effective pitches, and if his off-speed stuff is missing, he resorts to the world's most hittable 93mph BP fastball. Blackburn used to be one of my favorites, but now he seems held together by athletic tape. I'd trade him for a promising youngster in A ball. Liriano is exactly at his peak trade value, right this moment. A contending team could use him as a 3rd or 4th starter and possibly pile up some wins. Agreed that he could go to a big budget club and use the second half as tryout for a big contract next year. Span is a prototypical Twins outfielder, developed slowly and deliberately to maximize his potential. He's a solid major league player, and should command top price. His greatest value would be on a team like the Yankees, where he could play right field with Granderson in center. That pair would prevent a lot of balls from landing, and they'd score a ton of runs at the top of the lineup.

#17 cr9617

cr9617

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 157 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:47 PM

I would trade Capps back to the Nationals for Ramos and his torn up knee. Capps is a nice guy, but he still seems to lack a serious repertoire of effective pitches, and if his off-speed stuff is missing, he resorts to the world's most hittable 93mph BP fastball.

Blackburn used to be one of my favorites, but now he seems held together by athletic tape. I'd trade him for a promising youngster in A ball.

Liriano is exactly at his peak trade value, right this moment. A contending team could use him as a 3rd or 4th starter and possibly pile up some wins. Agreed that he could go to a big budget club and use the second half as tryout for a big contract next year.

Span is a prototypical Twins outfielder, developed slowly and deliberately to maximize his potential. He's a solid major league player, and should command top price. His greatest value would be on a team like the Yankees, where he could play right field with Granderson in center. That pair would prevent a lot of balls from landing, and they'd score a ton of runs at the top of the lineup.

No team is going to give up anything promising for Blackburn and the rights to pay 5.5 mil next year.

#18 raindog

raindog

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 299 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:08 AM

Trading Diamnond doesn't seem to mesh with the rest of the article. We're desperately short on pitching, and he's under team control for a couple years at least. Even if he's pitching over his head, he's far and away the best guy with have not named Liriano. Good article though. I'm not going to expect much, but I'm still very interested to see what Ryan can do.

#19 Top Gun

Top Gun

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,253 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:38 AM

Ya trading isn't so easy everyone wants something for nottin and will be hard to deal with. Try it some time!

#20 DAM DC Twins Fans

DAM DC Twins Fans

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 472 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:07 AM

Ya trading isn't so easy everyone wants something for nottin and will be hard to deal with. Try it some time!


Amen to that. Twins have very little of value after Span and Willingham (maybe Revere). I wont be disappointed with Twins trades over the next 45 days--I dont expect anything ofvalue coming in.

#21 nokomismod

nokomismod

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 271 posts

Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:21 AM

Good article JC! If I were an opposing GM, I would start the conversation with Terry Ryan with, "You guys have the worst starting rotation in baseball. Why do you want to trade your best starting pitcher? What's wrong with him?". That being said I really hope we can get something good for Frankie. I trust Ryan to make a good deal.

#22 IdahoPilgrim

IdahoPilgrim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,423 posts

Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:36 AM

Good article JC!
If I were an opposing GM, I would start the conversation with Terry Ryan with, "You guys have the worst starting rotation in baseball. Why do you want to trade your best starting pitcher? What's wrong with him?".


TR response: "We're just not confident that we can sign him to a long-term deal - we think he would be happier with a different organization." Problem solved.

#23 JB_Iowa

JB_Iowa

    Cynical Oldie

  • Members
  • 3,426 posts
  • LocationNorthwest Iowa

Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:19 AM

Just as a reminder -- and for a bit of amusement -- I'm bumping this thread. And yes, it appears that JC and others were right in thinking that Frankie should have been traded immediately after his 15K performance.

#24 Oxtung

Oxtung

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,430 posts

Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:53 PM

And yes, it appears that JC and others were right in thinking that Frankie should have been traded immediately after his 15K performance.


Even during his good streak teams were still thinking of him as a reliever suggesting that his value was never very high.

#25 Jim Crikket

Jim Crikket

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,114 posts

Posted 30 July 2012 - 09:42 AM

Yeah, I'd have dealt him right after that 15K performance, but Oxtung is right, the "rumors" at the time didn't have much that indicated he was highly valued. Also, the legitimate rotation upgrades like Greinke were still on the market, so teams that were in on him (like Chicago, for instance) weren't ready to settle for Liriano. Ryan indicated other teams were still interested, but if what he got from Chicago was indicative of what others were offering, there wasn't anything being offered that Liriano fans would have felt was enough. I guess I would restate my quetsion from the article... if you were a GM, what would YOU offer for two months of Liriano? After Frankie's implosion in Chicago last week, I'm surprised Ryan got what he did.