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Article: What Would It Take To Come Back?

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#1 Nick Nelson

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:44 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...ke-To-Come-Back

#2 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:48 PM

Nick, have you been drinking some of my Kool-Aid recently?

#3 gunnarthor

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:51 PM

6) No slumps by Plouffe, Mauer, Willingham etc AND Morneau has to start producing at an respectable level.

#4 Top Gun

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:06 PM

The SP will have to go 6 strongs Innings. Twins come out and win 10 in a row and then do it again later. Key pitching,good defense and timely hitter can do it.

#5 glunn

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:11 PM

7) Verlander pitches every game like he did tonight, the entire Indians squad gets a bad case of the flu for a month, the Royals lose their three best players for using PEDs, and the White Sox all have whiplash from a bus accident.

8) at least three Twins pitchers get bitten by the same radioactive spider that bit Plouffe.

#6 Land Of 10,000 Beasts

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 01:31 AM

7) Verlander pitches every game like he did tonight, the entire Indians squad gets a bad case of the flu for a month, the Royals lose their three best players for using PEDs, and the White Sox all have whiplash from a bus accident.

8) at least three Twins pitchers get bitten by the same radioactive spider that bit Plouffe.


I was gonna add a 9th but I just couldn't top that. That was brilliant sir.

#7 twinswon1991

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:21 AM

Nick needs to be introduced to reality! The Twins have been the WORST team in the AL since September 2010 and have shown no signs of improvement. I take it this is your first year following the club?

#8 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:34 AM

No injuries! So far this year we have been very lucky not to have a position player go down - and we're still 11 games back! Imagine if Mauer or Willingham or Span or Revere were down for 6 weeks.

#9 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:42 AM

as bad as the central is, they'd need their starters to suddenly look like good starters and for Morneau to hit like he did in May. Though that said, they should be selling.

#10 Badsmerf

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:04 AM

and have shown no signs of improvement.


You must not have been watching this team for the last month or so. I would call an entire month playing above 500 ball a sign of improvement.

#11 edavis0308

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:14 AM

Nick needs to be introduced to reality! The Twins have been the WORST team in the AL since September 2010 and have shown no signs of improvement. I take it this is your first year following the club?


Good thing you heeded his suggestion of no "it isn't going to happen" responses.

#12 Boom Boom

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:59 AM

I was going to say "You're out of your gourd, Nick"... but that's been disallowed. So instead... remember that historically improbable run in 2006? The Twins could get right back in it with another one! All it'll take is to make the 2006 Twins look like the 2003 Tigers!

#13 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:25 AM

You must not have been watching this team for the last month or so. I would call an entire month playing above 500 ball a sign of improvement.


No, they're still terrible. Playing winning ball only means they're playing winning ball. That's not how you succeed in this league.

*head explodes*

#14 Badsmerf

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:34 AM

Playing winning ball only means they're playing winning ball. That's not how you succeed in this league.


That is a real paradox my friend... The word "improvement" means getting better. I would consider the last month as a positive for the Twins, and reason for optimism.

#15 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:35 AM

Playing winning ball only means they're playing winning ball. That's not how you succeed in this league.


I guess I need this clarified as to what your point is. I would have said that winning is the definition of success.

#16 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:36 AM

That is a real paradox my friend... The word "improvement" means getting better. I would consider the last month as a positive for the Twins, and reason for optimism.


You're getting a bad case of VD buddy. And not the usual kind.....

#17 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:41 AM

That is a real paradox my friend... The word "improvement" means getting better. I would consider the last month as a positive for the Twins, and reason for optimism.


Well, it's pretty obvious that the team is improving. These are the cost-controlled guys that have been driving the team for the past 4-6 weeks:

Mauer
Plouffe
Diamond
Perkins
Burton
Revere
Willingham
Span
Burnett
Doumit
Duensing

All of those guys are locked up through 2014, if I'm not mistaken. That's half the 25 man roster.

This team is far from "good" but it's obvious that they have something brewing that could form into a decent team with the right acquisitions. No one of importance outside of Liriano is going to be lost after this season. That's one guy. One guy. Everybody else has been ineffective or injured.

Two starting pitchers (one for Span, one FA) with Gibson returning to form and this team is suddenly an AL contender. It's a bit of a stretch to expect everything to slot in perfectly but after the past two seasons being decimated by injury, it's about damned time the Twins got a break.

#18 CDog

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:42 AM

You must not have been watching this team for the last month or so. I would call an entire month playing above 500 ball a sign of improvement.


You lowballed your own point...it's been two months. Man that first month+ hurts more every day!

Agree with the previously made point: I think one of the bigger requirements is Morneau improving even half-way from where he's been to where he "should" be.

#19 savvyspy

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:46 AM

Tommorow Nick is going to lay out how to get struck by lightning at the exact time you sank your 2nd hole in one of the round. And tune in Friday for a breakdown of which Victoria's Secret model is going to ask me to marry them!!

#20 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:51 AM

Two starting pitchers (one for Span, one FA) with Gibson returning to form and this team is suddenly an AL contender. It's a bit of a stretch to expect everything to slot in perfectly but after the past two seasons being decimated by injury, it's about damned time the Twins got a break.


Well if we address one of the starter spots with trading Span than it takes him off the team control list. Nit-picky but worth noting that we would have a corner outfield spot to fill. But, to be honest, I'd much rather see us shop Willingham than Span. If you can get a similar package for Hammer as Span, it would make much more long-term sense for the team. And at this pace, I think Hammer's value is about as high as it will ever be at the end of this month.

These next few months are going to tell a lot about what hopes we can have going forward.

#21 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:01 AM

Well if we address one of the starter spots with trading Span than it takes him off the team control list. Nit-picky but worth noting that we would have a corner outfield spot to fill. But, to be honest, I'd much rather see us shop Willingham than Span. If you can get a similar package for Hammer as Span, it would make much more long-term sense for the team. And at this pace, I think Hammer's value is about as high as it will ever be at the end of this month.

These next few months are going to tell a lot about what hopes we can have going forward.


I disagree. I think teams are still going to be wary of Willingham based on his age, the fact that he was a FA this offseason and they didn't pick him up, and that he's a limited ability corner outfielder.

On the other hand, the Twins have Revere behind Span. Putting Revere in CF actually strengthens him as a player, as CF makes his range more of a factor and his arm is slightly marginalized there.

That means the team needs to find a corner OF for 2013. Thankfully, corner outfielders who can put up Revere's offensive production (though not defensive) are one of the easiest things to find in baseball. It's not even that difficult to find a guy who will hit enough to offset the defensive loss in moving Revere to CF. All the Twins need is a guy who can play corner OF for one season, after which one of the Hicks/Arcia/Benson trio should be close to getting a shot.

Like, say, a one or two year deal to Torii Hunter. It makes sense on so many levels. Fans love him, he's probably open to returning to MN, and he's nothing more than a corner OF at this point and possibly nothing more than a backup in 2014.

#22 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:08 AM

All the Twins need is a guy who can play corner OF for one season, after which one of the Hicks/Arcia/Benson trio should be close to getting a shot.


Hence the beauty of having Revere/Span there. Span's team control is ongoing for quite some time and his value will still be there. Willingham's value is only going to plummet from here. I get the appeals of keeping him, but I don't think it's impossible we could find a strong suitor for him.

For instance, Baltimore could really use some help in the corner OF spots. Ditto the Mets, Pirates, and Dodgers. I'd argue we could get a solid young pitcher from any of those teams that would be worth pulling the trigger.

#23 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:10 AM

Hence the beauty of having Revere/Span there. Span's team control is ongoing for quite some time and his value will still be there. Willingham's value is only going to plummet from here. I get the appeals of keeping him, but I don't think it's impossible we could find a strong suitor for him.

For instance, Baltimore could really use some help in the corner OF spots. Ditto the Mets, Pirates, and Dodgers. I'd argue we could get a solid young pitcher from any of those teams that would be worth pulling the trigger.


I'm not saying that it's an impossible deal, I just think it's unlikely. If a team is willing to bite on Willingham for a pitcher, you do it.

I only feel that it's more likely to happen with Span.

Either way, one of the two should go in trade for a starter.

#24 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:13 AM

Either way, one of the two should go in trade for a starter.


We agree there. Too much to hope Baltimore tries to go for those WC spots and ships out Matusz for him? Probably dreaming.....

#25 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:13 AM

Another thing to mention is that it's not impossible that teams are eyeing up Ben Revere right now. If you can deal Revere, I'd do it yesterday. I have so little faith in his continued production*... *but in all fairness, I have very little faith in speed-based/BABIP/no walk guys in the first place

#26 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:23 AM

Another thing to mention is that it's not impossible that teams are eyeing up Ben Revere right now.

If you can deal Revere, I'd do it yesterday. I have so little faith in his continued production*...

*but in all fairness, I have very little faith in speed-based/BABIP/no walk guys in the first place


I'm with you, though what I saw of him in Detroit is that he's making very solid contact on the ball. One of our OF is expendable. I agree willingham would get the most, I also think he's the most important cog if this team thinks they can compete in 2013. Morneau, whether you like it or not, isn't going anywhere, and given that Parmalee has experience in RF, he'd be a fine stop gap there for the time being until one of Benson/Hicks/Arcia is ready to man it. If Morneau shines at first, you can deal him in 2013 for help and moving Parmalee over there and then call up one of the OF guys. Span or Revere should get something as well. I'm not picky. I just want a starting pitcher that should be a 2/3 type guy.

#27 chopper0080

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:26 AM

Hence the beauty of having Revere/Span there. Span's team control is ongoing for quite some time and his value will still be there. Willingham's value is only going to plummet from here. I get the appeals of keeping him, but I don't think it's impossible we could find a strong suitor for him.

For instance, Baltimore could really use some help in the corner OF spots. Ditto the Mets, Pirates, and Dodgers. I'd argue we could get a solid young pitcher from any of those teams that would be worth pulling the trigger.


The issue I have with trading Willingham is it would create a huge hole in the 4 spot of the lineup and deprive the Twins of the RH power bat they really need in Target Field. Being able to hit home runs is so key for teams these days and Willingham is the one player, outside of the unbelieveable year from Plouffe, that provides this. In my opinion, if we did need to compete and thus keep Liriano, the only viable option would be to trade Span or Revere, and then call up Hicks. He is ready defensively and has been improving at AA. He also brings a similar skill set to the table.

I don't see us contending as a real possibility, but who knows.

#28 Shane Wahl

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:31 AM

Damn--compare this season's numbers for Ben Revere and Juan Pierre (note: I don't think a Juan Pierre comparable is such a bad thing). Why not spend $25 million on two starters in the offseason, keep your best players, and not give in to a near-repeat of 2012 in 2013?

#29 ThejacKmp

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:31 AM

Nick needs to be introduced to reality! The Twins have been the WORST team in the AL since September 2010 and have shown no signs of improvement. I take it this is your first year following the club?



Since September 2010 the Twins have been the 2nd worst team in the AL. The Mariners are 112 and 167 for a .401 winning clip and the Twins are 117 and 159 for a .423 clip. You may call that nitpicking and say they're still not good but I'd call making up statistics worse. Check your facts.

While you're at it, work on reading comprehension. Nick clearly stated that he was throwing out a fun hypothetical which succeeded in adding some levity to a disappointing season. I'm hoping your snide "I take it this is your first year following the club?" is just you being sarcastic and bitter because if you meant it that way I'd have to ask "Is this your first year on the internet?" since Nick Nelson founded this site and is one of the best Twins bloggers out there.

#30 Steve Lein

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:54 AM

You all realize Nick is absolutely NOT saying this is what IS going to happen, only what MUST happen if they expect to get back in it, right?! Obviously, it's not likely.