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#1 mike wants wins

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:27 PM

Please DFA him.

Edited by ashburyjohn, 28 June 2014 - 09:18 AM.
Fixed the spelling of the gentleman's name. :)

Lighten up Francis....

#2 drock2190

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:40 PM

No he has "experience"

#3 TKGuy

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:45 PM

He got pinch hit for by a guy from Class A, nuff said

#4 jokin

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 11:11 PM

Please DFA him.


Yesterday.

#5 ScottyB

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 11:28 PM

I say DFA him and activate Smalley or Carew. Either one would be more useful than him.

Edited by ashburyjohn, 28 June 2014 - 09:10 AM.


#6 jaimedude2

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 11:42 PM

Please DFA him.

Two consecutive games where Guerrier looks like he is in mop up mode and he gives up the winning runs. For cripes sakes major league baseball is a business and a major league baseball team like the Twins is supposed to be in the business of winning baseball games, not just giving good guys a chance. This is the breaking point of any season right before the All Star break, you either turn the page on some people that are not cutting it and move forward with new guys, or you stick to your guns and get more losing likely end up getting the boot from your own job as management. Three years is enough of giving the same people 100 chances. I said to my friends when Guerrier gave up that 5th run you watch before the Twins hit that fifth run will cost them the game as the Twins will score 4 and come up short. If they tie the game at 4 Dozier is hitting for the Win not the pressure of a tie.

All Terry Ryan and Ron Gardenhire can talk about is how quickly they can send Polanco down. That is because if the kid hit's and fields well while he is here, he makes them look bad by continuing to hold on to and cling to their reasoning for keeping Florimon in the big leagues. This is the point in time that ownership needs to step to Dave St Peter and let him know, you let GM Ryan and manager Gardenhire know were tired of these same bad actors and excuses for the losing and filling holes with players that cannot help the Twins win.

Don't care if these are good guys or experienced players, bottom line is this NO ability to help win games or generate positive outcomes means adios. In both cases Florimon and Guerrier need to be shown the door, they have proved they are not contributors. St Peter needs to step in and say make the tough choices and share the pain or we will find people that will do that. That is leadership not clinging on to some BS hope or ideal of the past. There has been to much losing to keep on clinging to false hope.
When it has become so obvious to the teams fans even that what they call trying to win isn't going to happen with a couple of these players, then someone needs to effect change.
Someone has to be the bad guy and cut the cord, making tough decisions about people you like is what separates the winners from the also rans and stuck in the mud repetitive losing types. You cannot look the guy's in the minor leagues in the face that are having success and keep them down when guys like Florimon and Guerrier continue to fail, this type of failure breeds contempt from teammates even if they like the guy. I like the Twins, but they invent ways to make excuses. They need to cut the crap on the excuse making and finally start delivering some good results. You cannot continue to scrape the bottom and stay relevant in the entertainment business, eventually a fancy hamburger or a craft beer is not enough to keep people going to the ballpark it is about baseball and winning competitive baseball that keeps them coming back. Some of these guys need to draw a line in the sand and become part of the solution, they battle and have the will to win now they need to start using some of that younger talent to shine through. Starts with adding some smoke to the bullpen and putting some more bullets in Gardy's gun on offense. They started it by bringing in Morales, they need to do more.

Edited by jaimedude2, 27 June 2014 - 11:58 PM.


#7 Thrylos

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 07:14 AM

I say DFA him and activate Smalley or Carew. Either one would be more useful than that piece of crap.


He is what he is. The problem here is not Florimon. The problems are:

- Ryan and Antony who kept him on the 40-man roster and promoted him to the majors.

- Gardenhire who is playing him over Polanco.

Players have the abilities they have. They cannot help that. General Managers' and Managers' jobs are to assess those abilities and act accordingly. This is totally on the Front Office and the Manager. And there is not the first time that this combination of suspects has done that. Even in competing teams: Brian Buscher, Jason Tyner, Matt Tolbert, et al. come to mind. Not to mention the Ponsons and Marquises of the world.
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#8 ashburyjohn

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 09:16 AM

That is because if the kid hit's and fields well while he is here, he makes them look bad by continuing to hold on to and cling to their reasoning for keeping Florimon in the big leagues.


Moderator's note: we realize emotions run strong on topics like this, but I needed to edit out some clearly disrespectful words elsewhere in this thread, and here the discussion verges into claiming to know what goes on inside other people's heads. Please review the TD Comment Policy if you are unsure what respectful discourse means. (Not that any policy statement can cover every case, so please try to stay away from the "line".)

http://twinsdaily.co...-September-2013

#9 jaimedude2

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 09:29 AM

Moderator's note: we realize emotions run strong on topics like this, but I needed to edit out some clearly disrespectful words elsewhere in this thread, and here the discussion verges into claiming to know what goes on inside other people's heads. Please review the TD Comment Policy if you are unsure what respectful discourse means. (Not that any policy statement can cover every case, so please try to stay away from the "line".)

http://twinsdaily.co...-September-2013


Feel free to delete this post, I like the Twins, you are right I should not have commented on the GM and the manager on Polanco and inferring they are trying to keep him down, they want what is best for the kid and ultimately the team like the rest of us. I have piled on Florimon enough, they will keep him, doesn't matter the amount of mouth breathing, he doesn't need any more piling on. Injury's and necessity are why he is here anyways.

#10 notoriousgod71

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 09:31 AM

I say DFA him and activate Smalley or Carew. Either one would be more useful than him.


If it gets Smalley off of telecasts I'm all for it.

#11 Boom Boom

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 09:46 AM

Yeah... when Polanco pinch-hit for him I couldn't wrap my head around why P-Flo was starting in the first place.

#12 jokin

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 09:56 AM

Yeah... when Polanco pinch-hit for him I couldn't wrap my head around why P-Flo was starting in the first place.


Oh yeah..... it was the logical, and very telling, move (the other logical move was to PH Parm for Fuld, I still don't get that one). I wonder if it was telling enough to earn Polanco a starting spot today? It could probably be rationalized that it's not fair to put the kid in against Darvish, but come on.... Florimon looks as totally lost at the plate as Hicks did in April, 2013, probably worse.

#13 Danchat

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 10:33 AM

Oh yeah..... it was the logical, and very telling, move (the other logical move was to PH Parm for Fuld, I still don't get that one). I wonder if it was telling enough to earn Polanco a starting spot today? It could probably be rationalized that it's not fair to put the kid in against Darvish, but come on.... Florimon looks as totally lost at the plate as Hicks did in April, 2013, probably worse.

Polanco better be starting today. I still remember the day when TR said "no scholarships". Then why is Florimon still starting? Polanco is already superior at the plate, but who knows if he can play defense until you actually start him!

Florimon should be the next man to be outrighted off the 40 man roster. Whether they want Bernier, Beresford, even Romero (Plouffe should be ready, though) or if Meyer is ready to come up, P-Flo should be gone. He's batting .093. 'Nuff said.

#14 ScottyB

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:09 PM

Polanco better be starting today.


Sorry - It's Florimon once again.

Edited by ChiTownTwinsFan, 28 June 2014 - 12:13 PM.


#15 jorgenswest

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:16 PM

If Polanco were to start it would be with Hughes and his fly ball tendency.

#16 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:21 PM

Polanco better be starting today. I still remember the day when TR said "no scholarships". Then why is Florimon still starting? Polanco is already superior at the plate, but who knows if he can play defense until you actually start him!

Florimon should be the next man to be outrighted off the 40 man roster. Whether they want Bernier, Beresford, even Romero (Plouffe should be ready, though) or if Meyer is ready to come up, P-Flo should be gone. He's batting .093. 'Nuff said.


I don't think this is a scholarship issue. Florimon gets the league minimum... This one is on Gardy.

#17 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:25 PM

If Polanco were to start it would be with Hughes and his fly ball tendency.


Yes, because its slightly more likely a ball will be hit somewhere else than shortstop.

#18 Rosterman

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:38 PM

In some ways, no brainer. You play Polancho AHEAD of Florimon for two days. See what he does. On Monday, Plouffe and Nunez come back (I would only activate one, pending the outcome of Pino's pitching performance) and move Escobar back to shortstop, where he must be more comfortable as he is hitting squat since moving to third. When you send Flory down, remove him from the 40-man so you CAN bring up Beresford or Bernier if the position arise again. If Pino falters, remove him from the 40-man because you can (except, yes, someone will claim him...hummm, maybe should've done that with Deduno BEFORE his last great relief outing). Anyways, FLorimon is nothing. Nothing. No one will claim him. You can always readd him at some point if you want. Or, if someone claims him...you have others!
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#19 Otwins

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 03:04 PM

Floriman is also a drag on Escobar batting 8th. It is the same effect as hitting in front of the pitcher. What are they afraid of with Polanco? He might make an error or have a bad AB against Darvish. Florimon has both already by the 3rd inning. I think you do have to DFA him because gardy keeps starting him. It would make sense to start Polanco and put Florimon in for defense if the twins are ahead late in a game but Gardy won't do it.

Edited by Otwins, 28 June 2014 - 03:08 PM.


#20 Trautmann13

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 03:13 PM

Plouffe will be back on Monday. At that point Polanco will almost certainly be moved back down. I literally see no logic in having him get only 3-5 ABs and than saying "see you in 3 years." I truly believe Gardy is starting Florimon for sympathy sake. If Polanco doesn't start tomorrow I may, for the first time, be seriously asking what Gardenhire is doing.

#21 Jim H

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 03:27 PM

I sure understand the Florimon dislike. Still, it took 2 injuries to get him back to the majors and 3 injuries to get him into the starting lineup. He should be back in the minors in a few days. As to why he his starting instead of Polanco, it is probably easier to loss a game in the field rather than win one with the bat. Polanco, without the 3 injuries to infielders, would be hoping for a promotion to AA pretty soon. He doesn't belong in the majors, yet.

I expect the Twins will keep Florimon around, rather than release him, for a little while. If Escobar or more likely Santana can establish themselves as a reliable shortstop, well then release Florimon. Florimon is still the best defensive shortstop the Twins have. If the other two can't be consistent big league shortstops, Florimon could reemerge as a starter. I don't really think that will happen, but I didn't think either Escobar or Santana would be 300 hitters in the majors either. And they probably won't be, it sort of depends where their bats settle into at the major league level.

#22 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 03:34 PM

I expect Florimon to stay on the 40 man roster too. He's exactly the kind of player you want to accumulate if the goal is to lose 90 plus games season after season.

#23 twinsnorth49

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 04:31 PM

As to why he his starting instead of Polanco, it is probably easier to loss a game in the field rather than win one with the bat. Polanco, without the 3 injuries to infielders, would be hoping for a promotion to AA pretty soon. He doesn't belong in the majors, yet.


Neither does Florimon, they know what Florimon brings and at the plate it's nothing, for such a short stint they might as well expose Polanco to some major league pitching and see what they get. I'll take my chances with him in the field as opposed to Florimon at the plate.

#24 oldguy10

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 05:02 PM

The real problem here is they have way too many players that contribute to 90 losses year after year don't they?

#25 jorgenswest

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 05:26 PM

If Polanco were to start it would be with Hughes and his fly ball tendency.


With Hughes in the mound, Florimon was in the game to field one ground ball.

Gibson is the opposite extreme among the Twins starters. His ground ball rate is 56% compared to 36% for Hughes.

If Gardenhire thought through the line ups this weekend shouldn't this have been the game to start Polanco with his poor defensive reputation? Wouldn't you want the best possible infield for Gibson? Perhaps Florimon will start tomorrow also.

#26 DocBauer

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 06:06 PM

Neither does Florimon, they know what Florimon brings and at the plate it's nothing, for such a short stint they might as well expose Polanco to some major league pitching and see what they get. I'll take my chances with him in the field as opposed to Florimon at the plate.


This. A lot of great quotes to copy. But I think this one sums it up most succinctly.

I just don't get it! I'm a Gardy fan and supporter, but I just don't get the Florimon support at this point. And I came in to this season as a Florimon supporter, so consider that before I continue. I loved watching him in the field. And I truly believed, speculated, hoped we'd see some natural progression from him after last seasons experience. He's a good enough athlete, with a mostly solid first half of 2013, that I thought we might see a .240-ish hitter this year, with a following uptick in OB, that would result in a few more extra base hits and more SB opportunities.

But it alas, he has not only regressed, he is in the midst of one of the worst seasons I have EVER seen in all of my years. I get he helped us last year. I get he's probably a good kid and working hard. And I get Gardy's and the Twin's sense of loyalty. And I completely get it and understand it. But there is a point where absurd meets ridiculous at a crossroads, and this is it. In fact, I think the exit was a mile or two back. Florimon barely made contact at Rochester, and made huge error numbers while there. I understand there were dual injuries suddenly, but logic and the same Twins loyalty, along with basic smarts, clearly indicated a move to bring Romero up instead.

You'd have a natural 3B actually playing 3B, even if his defense is somewhat suspect. But he offers infinitely more offense than Florimon, and keeps Escobat at SS where he's been excelling. Instead, we disrupt two positions in the infield instead of one.

And then comes the third injury, this time to Santana. The same all applies to the Romero promotion. But if you're going to bring up Polanco, there is less pressure to have to play with him with Escobar staying at short. But even then, if you do have Florimon up, why not let Polanco actually play for a few games? What's he going to do, hit worse than Florimon? I'd much rather have the kid get a couple games under his belt for a ML taste while he's here. And could he really play so poorly in the field that a hit or two, even a couple walks or productive outs still couldn't be better than having Florimon in the lineup?

Let's be honest. It's not mean spirited to state that probably every other team in baseball would have already DFA'ed Florimon at this point. The moves made and not made the past couple of weeks have me more than frustrated, downright dumbfounded and angry.

#27 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 06:13 PM

This. A lot of great quotes to copy. But I think this one sums it up most succinctly.

I just don't get it! I'm a Gardy fan and supporter, but I just don't get the Florimon support at this point. And I came in to this season as a Florimon supporter, so consider that before I continue. I loved watching him in the field. And I truly believed, speculated, hoped we'd see some natural progression from him after last seasons experience. He's a good enough athlete, with a mostly solid first half of 2013, that I thought we might see a .240-ish hitter this year, with a following uptick in OB, that would result in a few more extra base hits and more SB opportunities.

But it alas, he has not only regressed, he is in the midst of one of the worst seasons I have EVER seen in all of my years. I get he helped us last year. I get he's probably a good kid and working hard. And I get Gardy's and the Twin's sense of loyalty. And I completely get it and understand it. But there is a point where absurd meets ridiculous at a crossroads, and this is it. In fact, I think the exit was a mile or two back. Florimon barely made contact at Rochester, and made huge error numbers while there. I understand there were dual injuries suddenly, but logic and the same Twins loyalty, along with basic smarts, clearly indicated a move to bring Romero up instead.

You'd have a natural 3B actually playing 3B, even if his defense is somewhat suspect. But he offers infinitely more offense than Florimon, and keeps Escobat at SS where he's been excelling. Instead, we disrupt two positions in the infield instead of one.

And then comes the third injury, this time to Santana. The same all applies to the Romero promotion. But if you're going to bring up Polanco, there is less pressure to have to play with him with Escobar staying at short. But even then, if you do have Florimon up, why not let Polanco actually play for a few games? What's he going to do, hit worse than Florimon? I'd much rather have the kid get a couple games under his belt for a ML taste while he's here. And could he really play so poorly in the field that a hit or two, even a couple walks or productive outs still couldn't be better than having Florimon in the lineup?

Let's be honest. It's not mean spirited to state that probably every other team in baseball would have already DFA'ed Florimon at this point. The moves made and not made the past couple of weeks have me more than frustrated, downright dumbfounded and angry.



Excellent post, all around.

#28 Kwak

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 06:47 PM

I don't think this is a scholarship issue. Florimon gets the league minimum... This one is on Gardy.


Is this like a "sponsor's exemption" used in golf tournaments?

#29 Othercousin 324

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 06:52 PM

Others have expressed my frustration about Florimon's truly wretched hitting. (Seriously, sometimes I think I'm watching a leffhanded version of Dean Chance at the plate. Tom Nieto, Florimon? I'll take Nieto.) But I'm not impressed with Florimon's fielding either. He's erratic-witness the wildly offline throw he made to home today, witness the misplayed popup in the Angel series. And those of you who defended the decison to go with Florimon based on some defensive metrics you got a hold of.....hope you learned your lesson. Stay away from that s.......stuff!

#30 ScottyB

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 05:52 PM

Anyone else notice that in one weekend Polanco matched Florimon in doubles, triples and tripled his RBI total while spending most of the time on the bench?