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#1 stringer bell

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 04:48 AM

The Twins current 25 man roster (counting the transaction of Pelfrey, Hicks, Santana, and Darnell) has six starting pitchers (one assigned to the bullpen), seven relief pitchers, three catchers, three shortstops, one third baseman, one second baseman, two first basemen, one corner outfielder and one utility outfielder. What's wrong with this picture? Well, there's no center fielder to start with--Sam Fuld, a perfectly fine fourth outfielder, had started 182 games in the major leagues, 54 in center field, when the Twins acquired him. He now sits as the only option to play center, leaving the team without a backup there. Eduardo Escobar has won an opportunity to become the Twins' everyday shortstop. However, that leaves the team without anyone who can play multiple positions in the infield. Chris Colabello, who played a few (less than 10) games in right field in the minors has now started 14 games in right for the major league team this year and cost the team multiple outs and bases in the field. The idea of a solid starting nine backed up by a versatile bench has been knocked on it's rear end.

#2 TKGuy

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 05:39 AM

That's why I think the Twins should DFA Florimon and bring up Bernier, at least he can play multiple positions and is having a pretty good season with the bat so far

#3 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:16 AM

Don't have a problem DFAing Florimon, but goodness there's a pitcher or two that needs to be removed from the roster.

#4 Sconnie

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:26 AM

I think, if Florimon stays on the 40, he can be optioned to AAA. He's supposed to have options, but the Orioles lost him to the Twins when they took him off their 40. He's still valuable.

#5 stringer bell

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:29 AM

50-some at-bats doesn't undo 10 season of less than mediocrity for Bernier. I don't remember one hard-hit ball from him last season for the Twins. If the Twins want a no-power guy they should go with Beresford, but I guess I would wait for Nunez, unless it is going to be a month.

#6 Sconnie

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:42 AM

We got a complete game out of Nolasco, can either Corriea or Darnell please make room for a third outfielder? Preferably one with wheels.

#7 Thrylos

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 07:28 AM

I think, if Florimon stays on the 40, he can be optioned to AAA. He's supposed to have options, but the Orioles lost him to the Twins when they took him off their 40. He's still valuable.


If so, let's see what he can bring in a trade.
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#8 Thrylos

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 07:31 AM

We got a complete game out of Nolasco, can either Corriea or Darnell please make room for a third outfielder? Preferably one with wheels.


The problem is that the only centerfielders in the organization are in AA and A+ and Kenny Wilson (the most "experienced") is hitting .233/.292/.326 in AA...
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#9 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 08:02 AM

I think this is the third season in a row where poor 40 man roster construction impacts the 25 man roster. Some of that is due to fairly bad luck with injury, some of it isn't. Keeping Bartlett around, for example, immediately cost a spot on both rosters and that's not bad luck. The need for three catchers and oversized bullpens impacts both rosters, and that isn't bad luck.

So you end up, a month into the season, without suitable options.

#10 stringer bell

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 08:30 AM

I think this is the third season in a row where poor 40 man roster construction impacts the 25 man roster. Some of that is due to fairly bad luck with injury, some of it isn't. Keeping Bartlett around, for example, immediately cost a spot on both rosters and that's not bad luck. The need for three catchers and oversized bullpens impacts both rosters, and that isn't bad luck.

So you end up, a month into the season, without suitable options.

Agree, Chief. I ran out of time, but I was going to analyze the composition of the 40-man roster. It also is malfitting, housing several players who don't have major league futures, too many catchers and not nearly enough possible contributors for this year. The two position players most likely to be competent for the Twins are Nunez and Parmelee, one injured and the other not on the 40-man roster. On the 40-man roster, the Twins have three injured outfielders, and only one other position player is injured--Nunez. Maybe that is a little bad luck. Much of this juggling will likely be undone after this weekend, but still it is truly a mess right now.

#11 JB_Iowa

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 09:12 AM

When Fuld hit the wall last night, I thought .... wow, it could get worse yet.

#12 stringer bell

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 09:19 AM

BTW, the solution to backup infielder and backup center fielder? Emilio Bonifacio was cleared and could have been claimed before the season. Just sayin'.

#13 howeda7

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 02:02 PM

If Juan Pierre is available, go sign him. I know he doesn't have much left, but we need a 2nd OFer who can play CF and he's still valuable as a pinch-runner if nothing else.

#14 jorgenswest

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 03:38 PM

BTW, the solution to backup infielder and backup center fielder? Emilio Bonifacio was cleared and could have been claimed before the season. Just sayin'.


I wasn't interested. I was wrong. I couldn't imagine his poor defense in CF matching well with our corner OFs. His other position is 2B and Dozier has been solid. In hindsight they should have signed him and put him in the OF mix or started him at 2B and moved Dozier to SS.

I argued then that they would still need a back up infielder but he would have been a lot better in the role that the Twins envisioned Bartlett. The Bartlett role wasn't one I had foreseen.

#15 tobi0040

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:05 PM

That's why I think the Twins should DFA Florimon and bring up Bernier, at least he can play multiple positions and is having a pretty good season with the bat so far


If only their was a dedicated Twins site that predicted issues at the SS position this year. I thought we were all set.

#16 tobi0040

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:06 PM

If so, let's see what he can bring in a trade.


Terry called around and was offered Chinese takeout for one. He should have done that deal.

#17 DuluthFan

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:54 PM

Sam Fuld is the back up center fielder. He is holding the position until Hicks returns from the DL. What you are looking for is the back up to the back up, which most teams don't keep on the 25 man roster. The Twins did pickup a minor league outfielder from Toronto who is on the 40 man roster and they still have their own minor league system to draw on.

As far as back ups for 2nd and 3rd, with the way Dozier and Plouffe are playing this year they should not need many off days. In the case that they do, Escobar can slide over to cover the position while Florimon covers shortstop.

#18 Beezer07

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 08:09 PM

At some point, someone has to put an end to the "you need one catcher on the bench at all times" nonsense, right? It really hurts the team to have Hermann as the defensive replacement when the Twins also have two too many pitchers on the roster.

#19 Deduno Abides

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 08:26 PM

I think this is the third season in a row where poor 40 man roster construction impacts the 25 man roster. Some of that is due to fairly bad luck with injury, some of it isn't. Keeping Bartlett around, for example, immediately cost a spot on both rosters and that's not bad luck. The need for three catchers and oversized bullpens impacts both rosters, and that isn't bad luck.

So you end up, a month into the season, without suitable options.


And some odd fascination with collecting unusable scrap heap players released by other struggling teams, like Raley and Fryer, and giving them 40-man spots. Players like these have no track record of minor league excellence and comparable players seem to be regularly available. Even Juan Pierre would be more likely to positively impact the major league Minnesota Twins this year than Kenny Wilson will any year. Why isn't taking a flyer on a player with recent major league success like Bonifacio a better idea than accumulating AAA roster filler?

P.S. Don't bring up Rondell White, Ruben Sierra, Tony Batista, Sidney Ponson, Luis Ayala, Phil Nevin or many other veterans who did have major league success, but years before their acquisition by the Twins.
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#20 Sconnie

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 08:48 PM

And some odd fascination with collecting unusable scrap heap players released by other struggling teams, like Raley and Fryer, and giving them 40-man spots. Players like these have no track record of minor league excellence and comparable players seem to be regularly available. Even Juan Pierre would be more likely to positively impact the major league Minnesota Twins this year than Kenny Wilson will any year. Why isn't taking a flyer on a player with recent major league success like Bonifacio a better idea than accumulating AAA roster filler?

P.S. Don't bring up Rondell White, Ruben Sierra, Tony Batista, Sidney Ponson, Luis Ayala, Phil Nevin or many other veterans who did have major league success, but years before their acquisition by the Twins.

I still think Kenny Wilson is good depth for 2015, however you can't go into a season with one CF who's coming off injury and for the most part washed up in AAA and one prospect CF in MLB with no back up at either level and just hope for the best. You are right AAAA players and fringe aged vets do have a place, and it's situations like this.

PS I realize Hicks is no longer a true prospect, but the Twins still don't really know what they have in him. It's getting closer to decision time, but there's still time for Hicks to earn a; 1) starting spot for 2015, 2) 4th outfielder spot, 3) one way ticket to AAA Rochester, or 4) Release.

Edited by Sconnie, 03 May 2014 - 08:50 PM.
Clarify


#21 Sconnie

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 08:53 PM

Terry called around and was offered Chinese takeout for one. He should have done that deal.

Did it come with the cream cheese wontons? Unless it did, no deal.

#22 Sconnie

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 10:01 PM

At some point, someone has to put an end to the "you need one catcher on the bench at all times" nonsense, right? It really hurts the team to have Hermann as the defensive replacement when the Twins also have two too many pitchers on the roster.

I think what hurts more, is the crappy rotation that up until recently 4/5 could only get you 5 innings. It takes two extra relief pitchers who to fill that space. True, the extra catcher hurts, but at least the extra catcher picks up a bat with regularity.

#23 nicksaviking

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 10:47 PM

I think this is the third season in a row where poor 40 man roster construction impacts the 25 man roster. Some of that is due to fairly bad luck with injury, some of it isn't. Keeping Bartlett around, for example, immediately cost a spot on both rosters and that's not bad luck. The need for three catchers and oversized bullpens impacts both rosters, and that isn't bad luck.

So you end up, a month into the season, without suitable options.


I would suggest trade deadline deals involving moving one veteran in the last months of his contract in exchange for two players who require 40-man spots despite the fact that they were already DFA candidates may be one reason for such 40-man problems.

I'm really curious which AAAA swingman and utility players the Twins will be asking for in exchange for Willingham this July.

#24 spycake

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:12 AM

I would suggest trade deadline deals involving moving one veteran in the last months of his contract in exchange for two players who require 40-man spots despite the fact that they were already DFA candidates may be one reason for such 40-man problems.

I'm really curious which AAAA swingman and utility players the Twins will be asking for in exchange for Willingham this July.


Yeah, the Twins would have been better off just getting Escobar for Liriano, and Johnson for Morneau. It's like they couldn't resist getting another "free" player even though ultimately they had no real interest or affinity for that player.

On the other hand, there has almost always been enough dead weight on the 40-man, this shouldn't really be an issue. If they are willing to cut that dead weight, of course.

#25 CRArko

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:05 AM

At the moment the best record in baseball is held by the Brewers. Here is their 40-man:

http://milwaukee.bre...an.jsp?c_id=mil

Anybody want to perform the same analysis of this?
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#26 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:18 AM

At the moment the best record in baseball is held by the Brewers. Here is their 40-man:

http://milwaukee.bre...an.jsp?c_id=mil

Anybody want to perform the same analysis of this?


If you are referring to the lack of OF depth on the Brewers roster, my only opinion would be that you probably should have a little more depth when your everyday CF'er is Aaron Hicks and his sub .600 career OPS vs. one of the best CF'ers in baseball.

#27 spycake

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:52 AM

At the moment the best record in baseball is held by the Brewers. Here is their 40-man:

http://milwaukee.bre...an.jsp?c_id=mil

Anybody want to perform the same analysis of this?


5 OF (1 on DL), including at least 2 natural CF, just 2 catchers. On their 25 man, there are 4 OF including the 2 CF and only 12 pitchers.

#28 Deduno Abides

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 12:19 PM

I still think Kenny Wilson is good depth for 2015 . . .


Good luck with that. I'm not saying he won't get a chance, because the team overweights speed, but the only way a 24-year old hitting .220 in AA with no power and a career 2:5 W:K ratio (worse in AA last year and this year) who has made 2 errors in 8 games with New Britain (as an outfielder!) will provide any material contribution to the success of the 2015 Twins is if Wilson stands behind a wall with his face partially obscured and gives sage advice to Gardy or his sidekick Rick "Al Borland" Anderson.
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#29 ashburyjohn

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 12:32 PM

the only way a 24-year old hitting .220 in AA with no power and a career 2:5 W:K ratio (worse in AA last year and this year) who has made 2 errors in 8 games with New Britain (as an outfielder!) will provide any material contribution to the success of the 2015 Twins is if Wilson stands behind a wall with his face partially obscured and gives sage advice to Gardy or his sidekick Rick "Al Borland" Anderson.


Attached File  lloyd-300x300.jpg   20.71KB   82 downloads

(He's my Adopt-A-Prospect after all.)

Edited by ashburyjohn, 04 May 2014 - 04:00 PM.


#30 Riverbrian

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 03:46 PM

Sam Fuld is the back up center fielder. He is holding the position until Hicks returns from the DL. What you are looking for is the back up to the back up, which most teams don't keep on the 25 man roster. The Twins did pickup a minor league outfielder from Toronto who is on the 40 man roster and they still have their own minor league system to draw on.

As far as back ups for 2nd and 3rd, with the way Dozier and Plouffe are playing this year they should not need many off days. In the case that they do, Escobar can slide over to cover the position while Florimon covers shortstop.


Yeah but...

We broke camp with Hicks as the starter (which was questionable after Hicks 2013). And Bartlett as the backup (which was just plain questionable). Shedding Presley which was questionable and we were fortunate that Fuld became available or else it's Clete Thomas ilk again.

Personally... I'm not looking for a backup or a backup to the backup... I'm looking for a starter.

I was driving down 1st street... I hit this huge pothole... The sound was loud... The car shook... I worried that I wrecked my car... A week later I was driving down the same street... Same pothole... I swerved to avoid it.

I'm looking for an indication that the powers that be... noticed... that Clete Thomas played 92 games in 2013.

Edited by Riverbrian, 04 May 2014 - 03:50 PM.