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Who could have seen this Pelfrey start coming...

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43 replies to this topic

#1 Trevor0333

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:54 PM

Mike Pelfrey 2013
5-13 W-L - 5.19 ERA - 1.55 WHIP - 10.8 H/9 - 3.1 BB/9 - 6 K/9 etc...

Mike Pelfrey 2014
0-2 W-L - 7.84 ERA - 1.82 WHIP - 12 hits - 9 runs - 4 HR's - 6 SO - 7 Walks in 10 IP

Wow, it's a good thing "we arent in the business of rehabilitating players for other teams", what a silly quote Twins FO. Yes its only 2 starts but its 2 starts exactly like the previous year. A straight as an arrow 94 mph fastball thrown 80% of the time. OMG I don't undrstand how Pelf is getting rocked with that combination.

Deduno has had a couple real head scratching moments out of the pen (about as expected as Bartletts start as a SuperUte) for a player of his type coming out of the bullpen. There is no legitimate arguement against Pelfreys rotation spot should being given up to Deduno very very very soon.

How long or how long of a leash should Pelfrey be getting? Im confused as to how he earned this leash to even begin with.

#2 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:03 PM

I'd rather see Meyer come on down for Pelf's spot.

#3 Trevor0333

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:14 PM

I'd rather see Meyer come on down for Pelf's spot.


I have no problem letting Meyer start in AAA and taking over for an innefective Deduno or Corriea.

#4 twinsnorth49

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:16 PM

I give Pelfrey one more start, if it remotely resembles the first two, it's time for Deduno.

#5 mike wants wins

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:18 PM

I think the discussion of how long his leash should be is an interesting one, but I don't expect it to happen in this thread.
Lighten up Francis....

#6 Trevor0333

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:21 PM

I think the discussion of how long his leash should be is an interesting one, but I don't expect it to happen in this thread.


I never would have "given" him a spot in the rotation to begin with but at this point, maybe 2 more starts and if its more of the same. Maybe we can trade him to the Korean team for Albers back.

#7 nicksaviking

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:21 PM

I could see the Twins starting the clock on May before Meyer.

Still, Plefrey is on a two year deal. I have a hard time believing he doesn't get a minimum of 10 starts barring injury.

#8 mike wants wins

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:22 PM

agree with nick. But I think we get some other AAAA guy before either one. And, agreed, no way I would have signed him this offseason, but they did, for two years I believe.
Lighten up Francis....

#9 Marta Shearing

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:28 PM

I have no problem letting Meyer start in AAA
and taking over for an innefective Deduno or Corriea.

Deduno had a great spring. His struggles are because he's in the bullpen. He's a starter, and deserves to be starting on this team. Its amazing on a staff this bad they have their best starter in a mopup role in the bullpen.

#10 iTwins

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:32 PM

How many starts did the Twins give Jason Marquis in 2012 - 7 or so? I'd put the leash at that point for Pelfrey. If he continues to turn out starts like the first two, I think the Twins make a move 5 to 7 starts in. (I'd wager flipping Deduno and Pelfrey's places will be the first "move").

#11 Thrylos

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:39 PM

At some point the real question should be 'how long Anderson's leash should be?" My answer is "shorter than Pelfrey's."

(Or back to the original question, Pelfrey's leash should be longer than Anderson's.)
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#12 adjacent

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:46 PM

At some point the real question should be 'how long Anderson's leash should be?" My answer is "shorter than Pelfrey's."

(Or back to the original question, Pelfrey's leash should be longer than Anderson's.)

I tend to agrree with Thrylos in this one, because it is not only Pelffrey, but all of the starters are struggling right now. Having said that, I don't think there will be any move before May in that front.

#13 longstrangetrip

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:49 PM

I recognize there's another thread about the honeymoon period for the entire staff, but to some extent Pelf's leash length has something to do with how the other 4 starters are doing. Right now only Gibson has been sharp (in his only start), and Pelf actually looks better to me than the other three. He's pitching at a quicker pace, and his 2-seamer is moving very well against lefties. Pelf is a favorite of both Gardy and Anderson, so even though there is more money invested in Correia, Hughes and Nolasco, Pelf may get a longer leash than others because of his popularity.

Deduno looks uncomfortable coming out of the pen, and I think will be in the rotation by June 1. It will be interesting to see who he replaces, assuming all five stay healthy. If Pelf and one of the three higher-priced free agents are both struggling by late May, and the other pitcher has worse stats than Pelf, I wouldn't be surprised if the coaching staff put the higher-priced pitcher in the pen before Pelf.

#14 jokin

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:51 PM

Im confused as to how he earned this leash to even begin with.


Pelfrey had a very strong 2nd half last year. He had a 3.65 FIP.

And he got better, even with a bad ERA in September of 2013 due to a anomalous .431 BABIP and outlying strand rate, his FIP that month was 2.89, xFIP- 3.63, meanwhile- he had a commanding, season-best month K/9 of 9.31.

Clearly, after today's start, and the last inning of his first start, he hasn't built on his 2nd half momentum of 2013, but while the results have been similar, the intervening good evidence that he was regaining his effectiveness would suggest that after his first 2 starts, this isn't the exact same situation as last year. According to PitchFX, Pelf hasn't thrown a breaking ball yet- versus the 20% ratio of last season, and he's obviously struggling mightily on the placement of his various FBs- their location is either randomly wild or right down main street.

#15 jokin

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:57 PM

I tend to agrree with Thrylos in this one, because it is not only Pelffrey, but all of the starters are struggling right now. Having said that, I don't think there will be any move before May in that front.


Are you talking about the starters or Anderson? There is no way that something will be done with Anderson's leash.

#16 longstrangetrip

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:01 PM

Pelfrey had a very strong 2nd half last year. He had a 3.65 FIP.

And he got better, even with a bad ERA in September of 2013 due to a anomalous .431 BABIP and outlying strand rate, his FIP that month was 2.89, xFIP- 3.63, meanwhile- he had a commanding, season-best month K/9 of 9.31.

Clearly, after today's start, and the last inning of his first start, he hasn't built on his 2nd half momentum of 2013, but while the results have been similar, the intervening good evidence that he was regaining his effectiveness would suggest that after his first 2 starts, this isn't the exact same situation as last year. According to PitchFX, Pelf hasn't thrown a breaking ball yet- versus the 20% ratio of last season, and he's obviously struggling mightily on the placement of his various FBs- their location is either randomly wild or right down main street.


He actually threw an outside curve on the first pitch after Fuld's HR. I remember because I forgot that he had a curve, since I hadn't seen one this year. You make a good point about Pelf's strong finish last year, and it's another reason I would think Hughes would have a shorter leash (despite the bigger contract).

#17 Shane Wahl

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:01 PM

That the pitching coach still has a job is fascinating to me. It was fascinating to me in the offseason when the defenders of Gardy and Anderson came out claiming things like "managers (and coaches) don't really matter."

Clearly they do. How can yet another year of horrific starts to start the season (and especially in early innings) be a matter of the pitchers themselves and not something with what is going on in their instruction and preparation?

#18 longstrangetrip

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:42 PM

That the pitching coach still has a job is fascinating to me. It was fascinating to me in the offseason when the defenders of Gardy and Anderson came out claiming things like "managers (and coaches) don't really matter."

Clearly they do. How can yet another year of horrific starts to start the season (and especially in early innings) be a matter of the pitchers themselves and not something with what is going on in their instruction and preparation?


The reason Anderson still has a job is the same reason Gardy still has a job. The Pohlads don't fire baseball employees. Come work for the Twins, and know you have a job for life!

#19 clutterheart

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:43 PM

When has Pelfrey been good?

#20 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:02 PM

Deduno had a great spring. His struggles are because he's in the bullpen. He's a starter, and deserves to be starting on this team. Its amazing on a staff this bad they have their best starter in a mopup role in the bullpen.

DeDuno is NOT their best starter.

Nolasco, Correia and Hughes have the track record. Gibson has significantly more upside, the only one you can make an argument for is Pelfrey who also had his moments in 2013 as well. Honestly, there is really no excuse to be pitching poorly in the bullpen
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald

:whacky028::whacky028: :whacky028::whacky028:

#21 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:03 PM

When has Pelfrey been good?


2008, 2010, he showed a few promising flashes last year as well.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald

:whacky028::whacky028: :whacky028::whacky028:

#22 jokin

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:03 PM

When has Pelfrey been good?


2008
2010

2013 (July-September)

Edited by jokin, 10 April 2014 - 06:08 PM.


#23 Kwak

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:08 PM

Why would Pelfrey be "on a leash"? The Twins knew who he was when they signed him--and he is pitching the same as last year. It's not like Pelfrey had to arm-wrestle a contract away from other pitchers to sign here.

#24 clutterheart

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:15 PM

2008, 2010, he showed a few promising flashes last year as well.


So a long time ago...and even then his peripherals where not fantastic. I dunno, I have never been all that happy he was on the team.

#25 LaBombo

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:46 PM

Deduno had a great spring. His struggles are because he's in the bullpen. He's a starter, and deserves to be starting on this team. Its amazing on a staff this bad they have their best starter in a mopup role in the bullpen.

Barring injury, Nolasco and Hughes aren't leaving the rotation after two months' worth of struggling, let alone two starts' worth.

That leaves Correia, who was better than Deduno last year, Pelfrey, who was arguably better and had better seasons than his 2013 before TJ, and Gibson, who was worse than Deduno but has the 2014 rotation's only win and its only ERA under 6.

Deduno will get his chances to start at some point, either due to injury or ineffectiveness of the front five. Until then, he should continue to work on turning himself into a relief pitcher. Most relievers in MLB were starters at one point in their careers, so it's an extremely common career arc and the odds are he'll get it figured out eventually.

In fact, you could argue that he already has, with the exception of control, already started to do so based on his high K rate and low FIP/xFIP. Like the rotation, he's a work in progress as a reliever, and I hope he continues to progress. He's fun to watch when he's on, and entertaining in an America's Funniest Videos sort of way when he's not.

#26 LaBombo

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:48 PM

That the pitching coach still has a job is fascinating to me. It was fascinating to me in the offseason when the defenders of Gardy and Anderson came out claiming things like "managers (and coaches) don't really matter."

And it's a self-nullifying argument to boot. If they don't matter, what's the harm in replacing them?

#27 Since71

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:51 PM

Deduno was their best starter last year. as for track record I can agree with you on Nolasco and Correia but Hughes track record is not good. Yes Gibson has the most upside. Deduno is a starter and earned his chance to start. as for your comment that there is no excuse for pitching poorly in the bullpen... starting and relieving are apples and oranges and some guys can't do both well. I am not advocating for a change yet but if things don't improve then Deduno should be 1st option into rotation

#28 zchrz

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:54 PM

I was not a fan of the signing and still think it was a poor decision. Pelfry could have a rebound year and be a league average 4 or 5 (that's his upside), why waste a spot on a rebuilding team for that. The sinker is nasty but he has little control of it.
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#29 jokin

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:57 PM

So a long time ago...


And last July-September. Again, he was "good", in a sort of innings-eating, 5th starter kind of way, and he's being paid commensurately to that end. As most have said, I'm not a big fan of his signing, but 2 years with Big Pelf isn't going to derail or block someone else's career trajectory- he can go to the pen when we suddenly, somehow have 5 obviously better alternatives.

Edited by jokin, 10 April 2014 - 07:15 PM.


#30 notoriousgod71

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 07:07 PM

Deduno had a great spring. His struggles are because he's in the bullpen. He's a starter, and deserves to be starting on this team. Its amazing on a staff this bad they have their best starter in a mopup role in the bullpen.


You just can't show emotion out there. We don't do that kind of stuff around here.