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The Football thread (saacaaar)

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#1 Easy 10

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:49 PM

Hi all,

I'm a newbie here, tuning in mainly for the news and views on the Twins as they are now officially my adopted team. I'm still on a steep learning curve on the great sport of baseball so please bear with me. Its a lot to take in.

But as an englishman posting from England, football is my first love (and I'm talking soccerism here, not NFL, although I watch that too). Brighton and Hove Albion FC is my team and I'm a season ticket holder there, but I also have many, many football clubs over here who I openly despise for a bewildering variety of reasons which often boil down to bitterness, resentment, jealousy or moral outrage.

Anyhoo, if you have any mild interest in British soccerball (or "football" as we call it), and have any questions about it, then feel free to air them here and I will do my best to answer them *

* any opinion expressed will likely be deeply skewed by the authors own irrational and entirely unreasonable views on opposition teams, players, supporters and in some cases their mascots.

#2 twinsnorth49

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 06:49 PM

A return to the Premier League in the cards for the Gulls anytime soon?

Managing LFC in FIFA 14 on my son's Xbox is my guilty pleasure these days, I'm addicted.

#3 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:13 PM

Go Man U!!!!!
When life gives you lemons, suck on them and persevere.

#4 steve

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:26 PM

I like everything about soccer, except the soccer. I like the excitement of the crowds, the controversies, the passion, the blatant diving. The WAGS.

In supposedly socialist Europe, soccer is a true meritocracy. There is promotion and relegation. Success is rewarded, failure is punished.

There is no draft, no salary cap. There is no limit to the size of your team, only how many you can dress for a game.

There is no competitive balance. The good teams are much better than the poor teams.

The actual games I fast forward through until there is a goal. I can only imagine what a soccer fan, used to continuous action, thinks while watching a baseball game. Ten men standing around, usually doing nothing. For three hours.

Of course, to a baseball fan, there is more to it than that. There are subtleties, and the anticipation of impending action.

The one thing I will never understand is MLS. Who wants to watch a league of Americans play soccer, might as well have a league of Americans play hockey.
Sold or not, empty seats behind homeplate are an eyesore and an embarrassment.

#5 Easy 10

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 03:05 AM

[edit]
duplicate post. Ugg.

Edited by Easy 10, 09 April 2014 - 03:11 AM.


#6 Easy 10

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 03:10 AM

A return to the Premier League in the cards for the Gulls anytime soon?

Managing LFC in FIFA 14 on my son's Xbox is my guilty pleasure these days, I'm addicted.


Well, 5 games to go this season and we're just 2 points outside the Promotion Playoffs, so there's a chance, but only a slim one. We've just got to try and finish 6th and then take it from there. MaHOOsive win last night, 4-1 at Leicester (who are already promoted to the Premier League), so thats kept us in the hunt, but we've got to follow that up with, I reckon, at least 3 more wins out of the 5 remaining games, maybe even 4. Starting Saturday at the Amex v Charlton Athletic...

#7 Easy 10

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 03:42 AM

I like everything about soccer, except the soccer. I like the excitement of the crowds, the controversies, the passion, the blatant diving. The WAGS.

In supposedly socialist Europe, soccer is a true meritocracy. There is promotion and relegation. Success is rewarded, failure is punished.

There is no draft, no salary cap. There is no limit to the size of your team, only how many you can dress for a game.

There is no competitive balance. The good teams are much better than the poor teams.

The actual games I fast forward through until there is a goal. I can only imagine what a soccer fan, used to continuous action, thinks while watching a baseball game. Ten men standing around, usually doing nothing. For three hours.

Of course, to a baseball fan, there is more to it than that. There are subtleties, and the anticipation of impending action.

The one thing I will never understand is MLS. Who wants to watch a league of Americans play soccer, might as well have a league of Americans play hockey.



You list a lot of the things I love AND hate about the game there Steve ! But you're right, put it all together and its an intoxicating mix.

The diving just drives me nuts, when a grown man throws himself to the floor, rolling aroujnd, clutching his ankle or some other appendage, simulating an injury just to win a free kick / penalty / get the other guy sent off. Then 10 seconds later he's up and running around like a 2 year old, as if nothing happened. One second he's at deaths door, the next...hey, he's ok !! Maddening. But it all adds to the controversy and whips the crowd up.

Promotion / relegation realy adds an edge to proceedings. Getting relegated down a division is a miserable experience (the bottom 3 teams in each 24-team division goes down a league). Thats one thing I can't get my head around in baseball and NFL. Unless you're near the top of the standings or chasing playoffs, theres really very little to actually play for without that lurking fear of relegation being there. In football, avoiding relegation is sometimes celebrated as wildly as winning the league or getting promoted, it means THAT much. The relief is so intense at avoiding the despair of going down a league.

I've never been to a baseball game, but having watched it on TV, the atmosphere seems a lot more...relaxed. Sedate even. Football crowds get a lot more involved. We like to chant songs, often with obscene and/or insulting lyrics at the players, or at the referee, or at the oppositon fans who are always housed in their own part of the stadium, totally separated from the home fans. This makes the game a very "tribal" experience. Its US vs THEM, and there they all are, in that corner of our ground, on our patch, trying to beat OUR team. How dare they. So it goes way beyond boo-ing.

When a goal is scored...its bedlam. We football fans go absolutely bonkers, leaping around and screaming "YYYYEEEESSSS" at the top of our voices. This is because (unlike, say, basketball), there is a true rarity value to a goal. Scoring is hard ! There may only be one goal to celebrate. There may be NO goals to celebrate, so when your team scores, its such a massive release, a huge rush. Then once the euphoria has died down, the fans will often turn their attention to the glum set of supporters who's team has just conceded the goal, and begin the time-honoured gloating chant:

You're not singing
You're not singing
You're not singing any more
You're not sing-ing aaaany more


To which they will reply...

Sing when you're winning
You only sing when you're winning
Sing when you're wiiin-ning
You only sing when you're winning


Childish ? Unsporting ? You bet. But god I love it. Gosh there's about a million different chants for different situations.
Sorry to waffle on, but I do find the different cultures in our sports and our fans endlessly fascinating. I could bang on about this all day :)

I'd best get some work done though I guess.


#8 Easy 10

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 03:46 AM

Go Man U!!!!!


Oh, and I can't let this pass with a boooo

so

BOOOOOOO !!

#9 steve

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 02:22 PM

I've never been to a baseball game, but having watched it on TV, the atmosphere seems a lot more...relaxed. Sedate even.



Oftentimes baseball is sedate. Occasionally, it is not.

http://youtu.be/BT_MODis138

Your favorite team, in a very good game. They've built statues to two of the men playing here.
Sold or not, empty seats behind homeplate are an eyesore and an embarrassment.

#10 twinsnorth49

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 03:09 PM

Go Man U!!!!!



Go to he** maybe, I'd be alright with that.

#11 steve

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 04:01 PM

OK Easy 10, here's a question.

What movies about association football can you recommend?

I've seen two:

Bend it Like Beckham, and Green Street Hooligans.

There's lots of movies about baseball. I'd like to see more about soccer.
Sold or not, empty seats behind homeplate are an eyesore and an embarrassment.

#12 Fatt Crapps

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 01:45 AM

Forza Juve!

#13 twinsnorth49

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:05 AM

"There's only one Phillipe Coutino, one Phillipe Coutino"!!

Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpoooool!!!!!

Liverpool 3- Man City 2!!!

Skrtel is a beast.

#14 Easy 10

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 04:20 PM

OK Easy 10, here's a question.

What movies about association football can you recommend?

I've seen two:

Bend it Like Beckham, and Green Street Hooligans.

There's lots of movies about baseball. I'd like to see more about soccer.


Well, soccer is notoriously difficult to choreograph, so you'll never get a "decent" soccer movie that looks in any way convicing in terms of whats happening on the field of play. So its got to be all about the drama off the field.

Bend It Like Beckham is pretty poor, none of the football scenes are in the least bit convincing. And with all due respect, girls football isn't exactly a rich tapestry to weave a story from anyway, even if you do hang our "pin up boys" name in the title. Green Street is ok-ish as an off-field hooligan drama, but not really a very accurate repesrentation. Hobbits at Upton Park ? Mmmnah.

Probably my fave football movie is one called The Damned United, based on an excellent novel by David Peace. Its set in the early-1970's when the legendary (here at least) Brian Clough took over as manager of "dirty" Leeds United, for 44 days, before effectively being forced out by a players revolt. True story, garnished a little for the silver screen, but the performances and the whole look of the film is top notch. It perfectly captures the dour grim darkess of 1970's northern England.

It helps if you *know* the main characters for real of course (Clough the talented, charismatic, brash, outspoken young upstart manager, Don Revie as the curmudgeonly old former Leeds Utd boss) but the actors do fantastic renditions of them both, and their intense rivalry really brings the film to life.

Check out the real Clough / Revie here

This is legendary stuff over here, and it makes for a terrific film.

#15 Easy 10

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 04:33 PM

"There's only one Phillipe Coutino, one Phillipe Coutino"!!

Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpoooool!!!!!

Liverpool 3- Man City 2!!!

Skrtel is a beast.


One hell of a match, although I happen to think Skrtel is one of the dirtiest defenders in the PL. He gets away with MURDER in the box, pushing, pulling and grabbing opposition players all over the place. He's the only guy I see who seems to be trying to swap shirts with another player before the end of the game. If the referees were brave enough he'd be conceding 3 penalties a game easily !

But anyway. I had a cheeky little treble. Liverpool to beat Man City, Chelsea to beat Swansea, and Twins to beat the Royals, odds of around 9/1.

The first two came in this afternoon, so I watched my At Bat app tonight with my fist in my mouth hoping for the Twins to get that win and bring home the bacon, and they didn't let me down :)

God bless Correia

#16 steve

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:20 AM

Probably my fave football movie is one called The Damned United, based on an excellent novel by David Peace. Its set in the early-1970's when the legendary (here at least) Brian Clough took over as manager of "dirty" Leeds United, for 44 days, before effectively being forced out by a players revolt. True story, garnished a little for the silver screen, but the performances and the whole look of the film is top notch. It perfectly captures the dour grim darkess of 1970's northern England.


Thanks for this recommendation, just wish Netflix on demand would show it.
Sold or not, empty seats behind homeplate are an eyesore and an embarrassment.

#17 steve

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:27 AM

The news of the day is that David Moyes, the replacement for Sir Alex Ferguson, is out as manager of Manchester United.

1.) Is Manu out of Champions League next year, and also out of Euro League?

2.) Was Moyes put into an impossible situation?

3.) To what degree are the American owners of Manu responsible for this failure?

4.) How much schadenfreude is permitted? Some, a lot, or a whole lot?
Sold or not, empty seats behind homeplate are an eyesore and an embarrassment.

#18 Easy 10

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:28 AM

[quote name='steve']The news of the day is that David Moyes, the replacement for Sir Alex Ferguson, is out as manager of Manchester United.

1.) Is Manu out of Champions League next year, and also out of Euro League?[/QUOTE]

The Europa League is for clubs finishing 5th, and they might still manage 5th. But this is very much the poor relation to the Champions League - most clubs don't even take it very seriously, and field under-strength teams in it as its played (rather inconveniently) on Thursday nights. Spending 7 hours on a plane jetting across Europe to a Siberian coalmine for a Thursday night fixture against some team hardly anyone has heard of is not ideal preperation, when you have to get back to England for a proper game at the weekend.

But yes, Manchester United have failed to qualify for next seasons Champions League. Only the top 4 teams in the Premier League qualify from England, and sadly (hilariously), 4th place is now beyond them. This is the first time since 1995 they have failed to qualify for the competition. Quite apart from the catastrophic drop in income they will suffer (primarily TV money), this will also make it much tougher to recruit top-class players to the club, as top-class players tend to want to play for the clubs who are involved in what is considered THE premiére competition in Europe. Uniteds squad is in urgent need of a major overhaul this summer to become competative again, and that will not be easy with no Champions League on the agenda for the forseeable.

[quote name='steve']2.) Was Moyes put into an impossible situation?[/QUOTE]

Impossible ? No. Difficult ? Certainly. Moyes inherited a team which was reigning Champions when Sir Alex Ferguson retired last year, and its widely considered that Fergie performed miracles in making champions out of what was, essentially, a fairly average squad, with only one or two genuinely world class players. The extent of his genius has now become apparent, as Moyes has failed miserably to get even close to defending that title with what is largely the same group of players plus a couple of his own (very expensive) additions. They currently sit 7th in the table, a seismic 23 points behind current leaders Liverpool, and are well on course to becoming the worst defending Champions in Premier League history.

My opinion is that Moyes made it difficult for himself from the start by binning the entire United backroom staff on his arrival, and bringing in his own backroom team from Everton, severing any semblance of continuity. So players at United who were accustomed to success were now being led by a manager and coaching staff who had won nothing. And boy, does it show.

[quote name='steve']3.) To what degree are the American owners of Manu responsible for this failure?[/QUOTE]

For this failure specifically ? Very little. Man U had continued with their unprecedented success during the Glazers stewardship, thanks largely to letting Ferguson get on with his job and backing him in the transfer market. Moyes was appointed his successor on Fergusons own recommendation when he retired, and was given some £70m to spend. The fact that he's made an almighty great horlicks of the job cannot be laid at the Glazers door.

[quote name='steve']4.) How much schadenfreude is permitted? Some, a lot, or a whole lot?[/QUOTE]

Oh, a whole lot. A truckload. A FLEET of trucks, delivering entire shipping containers stuffed full of schadenfreude, to be delivered around England and the world to every plastic Man U fan who ever donned that ubiquitous red shirt, sat their fat arse on a barstool in front of the TV, and basked in the (seemingly endless) reflected glory of Manchester United PLC from afar, whilst looking down their noses at fans of apparently less distinguished or successful clubs. But you know what ? Those same fans will probably just go and buy a Liverpool / Man City / Chelsea * shirt for next season.

Lovely stuff.

* Delete as applicable according to whoever wins the Premier League.

Edited by Easy 10, 22 April 2014 - 08:38 AM.


#19 Easy 10

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:38 PM

Quite an interesting article here about the apparent growing in popularity of football in the USA

http://www.nytimes.c...cles.html?_r=1#

#20 twinsnorth49

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:53 PM

Oh, a whole lot. A truckload. A FLEET of trucks, delivering entire shipping containers stuffed full of schadenfreude, to be delivered around England and the world to every plastic Man U fan who ever donned that ubiquitous red shirt, sat their fat arse on a barstool in front of the TV, and basked in the (seemingly endless) reflected glory of Manchester United PLC from afar, whilst looking down their noses at fans of apparently less distinguished or successful clubs. But you know what ? Those same fans will probably just go and buy a Liverpool shirt for next season


LOL!!! This, This and this, well said! The stench of failure looks good on them and their insufferable fans, many of which have probably never watched an entire football match in their lives. Moyes should have never left Everton, getting his just desserts I say.

Yes, an influx of Liverpool jerseys and scarves is seemingly inevitable with the bandwagon crowd, all proclaiming to be lifers I'm sure, waxing poetically about Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley from their Google fandom.

#21 Easy 10

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:11 AM

LOL!!! This, This and this, well said! The stench of failure looks good on them and their insufferable fans, many of which have probably never watched an entire football match in their lives. Moyes should have never left Everton, getting his just desserts I say.

Yes, an influx of Liverpool jerseys and scarves is seemingly inevitable with the bandwagon crowd, all proclaiming to be lifers I'm sure, waxing poetically about Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley from their Google fandom.


Indeed. And lets be clear - I have no problem with the long-term Man U fans who were there prior to the last 20 years of non-stop trophies. The ones who get themselves along to Old Trafford to watch their team and support their team, through wind and rain, thick and thin (although its been a lot more thick than thin lately), good times and bad.

The ones I struggle to have respect for are the "brainwashed generation" in this country. The Sky Sports brigade, who have never been within 400 miles of Old Trafford, and yet declare their undying love for MUFC from their barstool on the other side of the country. And you ask them why ? Why do you shun your own (less successful) local team ? The one that plays just down the road in your own town or city, the one that is desperate for the support, the one you could actually turn up and watch if you so chose ? Why instead to you support this enormous football behemoth through a TV screen ? And the answer is usually something pretty lame. "Well, my dad always supported them" is a favourite. Or "George Best was my favourite player". Or "My uncles hairdresser had a brother who's best friends dog was born near the Manchester Ship Canal that runs by Old Trafford".

But we know the real reason. The real reason is that they want to be associated with success. They're gloryhunters. They want to puff their chest out in their replica shirt, and lord it over the fans of less successful clubs, because they support "the best". But the irony is, they will never find sporting fulfilment in their lives by doing this, because they have made no emotional investment in that club. They see a winning team, they see silverware, they see glory, and like a moth to a lightbulb, they're attracted to it. They flap and buzz all around it. But sure as dollars to donuts, when that lightbulb starts to dim, they'll gradually move away from it. They won't fly so close any more. They'll melt away, maybe towards a bulb thats shining a little brighter somwehere else.

I could never support any other football team than Brighton and Hove Albion. They're my team, my local club, and they've never won any major trophies, at least not anything a plastic Man U fan would recognise as a trophy. We've been up and down the leagues, existing mainly in the lower divisions (except for four years in 1979 - 1983, our glory years, playing in what is now branded as the Premier League). Since then we've hit the bottom of the 4th division, 92nd out of 92 clubs. And right now, we're in the 2nd Division (or 'Championship' as it is now branded), which is one league below the Premier. So we're not big, we're not successful, but any success we DO achieve just feels all the sweeter for it. I wouldn't swap that feeling of a rare promotion, of finishing top of a lower division, or escaping a relegation, for all the pots and baubles the Man U fans get so accustomed year in, year out.

Brighton till I die :)

#22 Fatt Crapps

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:56 PM

Great stuff, Easy 10.

Although you'll probably hate me because I like Juventus. I have no reason to cheer for them, I just always chose them whenever I played one of those FIFA games. I also cheer for Italy in the Euros and WC (besides the US of course)

Vidal is one of the top players in the world, IMO. Pogba is an up and coming prodigy (haha Man U gave him away for free), and who doesn't enjoy watching Pirlo and Buffon? Their D gets a lot of love but I feel Chiellini and Bonucci are over-rated.

It's a shame they choked in CL this year (they gave up a stoppage-time goal in their first match against Galatasaray that ended in a draw, and lost to them 1-0 in terrible playing conditions)...but watch out for them next year.

But hey, I'll take a 3rd straight Serie A title (and most points/wins ever in a single season)

Forza Juve!

#23 Easy 10

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 11:08 AM

Not at all Mr Crapps, I have no axe to grind with Juve, except for an inherent dislike of Carlos Tevez, who refused to come on as a sub for Man City in a Champions League game in Munich. So apparently him trousering £200,000 a week doesn't necessarily guarantee you his services as a player. The club suspended him, so he went on a 2 week golfing holiday in Argentina. Class act.

Anyhoo, my super Seagulls are up against the powerhouse that is Yeovil Town tonight in the penultiumate game of the season (unless our quest for the Playoffs is successful and our season duley extended). If Yeovil fail to win, then they're relegated back down to League One. Such are the stakes when you get to the sharp end of the season...

Come on you stripes :)

#24 Fatt Crapps

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:24 PM

Yeah, Tevez has certainly had his forgettable moments. But he's played great for Juve this year (minus UEFA and Internationally)...but I've heard that's not uncommon. He'll play great the first year with a new team, and then whine his way out. I hope that's not the case, he and Conte have a nice relationship it seems.

Good luck to the Super Seagulls.

#25 Fatt Crapps

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:27 PM

Pogba's mad skillz.


#26 twinsnorth49

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 09:59 PM

Where's your bus now Mr. Mourinho? No trophies for you sir, ha!

#27 Easy 10

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:24 AM

Well, we only went and did it. In the 92nd minute of the final game of the season, with just seconds remaining, the Seagulls scored a CRUCIAL winner at Nottingham Forest to win 2-1, and snatch the final Playoff spot from Reading. We now playoff against Derby County for a place at Wembley and a shot at promotion to the Premier League. EPIC stuff.



God I love football.

#28 Easy 10

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:31 AM

Where's your bus now Mr. Mourinho? No trophies for you sir, ha!


Don't speak too soon. Chelsea are still in the hunt for the Premier League title with 2 games to go....quite a battle royale at the top with Liverpool and Man City, the closest title race in years.

In fact, I'm just off down the pub to watch them batter Norwich. Then I can come back and tune in to the Twins this evening. Ahhh, Sundays.

#29 Easy 10

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:54 AM

Fair play Mister Twinsnorth...a 0-0 against Norwich has all but extinguished Chelsea's title hopes. No trophies for Mourinho again this season. You were spot on.

#30 twinsnorth49

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 09:53 AM

Fair play Mister Twinsnorth...a 0-0 against Norwich has all but extinguished Chelsea's title hopes. No trophies for Mourinho again this season. You were spot on.


Not much solace in that sadly, absolutely gutted by the meltdown at Selhurst, still in disbelief. Ah well, they've lived on the edge with that defense all year, not many expected them to be top of the table with one to play so at the end of the day a great year and still not over if either The Villa or Baggies can knock off City and Liverpool can go through against Newcastle.

Congrats on your Seagulls, 92 minute? thrilling stuff! Hope you can get up to the Premier League next.