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jorgenswest

Maybe there was some risk...

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With the signings of Kubel, Bartlett and Guerrier, comments overwhelmingly went like these below.

This isn't low risk..... it's NO risk
Minor league deals don't cost anything.
What's the negative??
Minor league contracts have zero downside.
Great move to give the Twins one more option without any risk whatsoever.
It's nothing more than looking at every possible way to improve your team, with virtually zero cost and no impact to your 40 man roster.

Complain about the major league signings all you like, but this?
Ryan and the Twins continue to take fliers on former players who -- at least based on recent history -- appear to be washed up. The latest is Matt Guerrier, who joins Jason Bartlett and Jason Kubel as players to rejoin the organization in the wake of seasons that were marred by injury, poor performance or (in Bartlett's case) not actually playing.

I've got no problem with the strategy. How could you? There's no risk here.
No risk? No impact on the 40 man roster?

Alex Presley
Brooks Raley
Darin Mastroianni

Signing decline phase players (even to minor league contracts) does have a risk.

It kept the Twins from seeking other younger solutions.

It invests playing time into players with no upside.

It costs a few younger players on the 40 man roster who have a better long term shot at being a role player.

Everyone wasn't on the no risk side of the conversation.

Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
Well, I think there's risk there, and yes, I think that is an indictment against Gardenhire. I don't think it means he's incompetent - it just means he has some weaknesses, and this seems to play on one of them. He also has his strengths, and overall, I think the strengths dwarf the weaknesses.
Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post

But this seems to play on a weakness, and I'd be happier if Kubel wasn't an option. I'm worried about Arcia and Parmelee's playing time. (And I recognize I might be the only one worried about Parmelee's playing time.)



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  1. goulik's Avatar
    None of the losses were part of a future and our present day is an experiment to find the future. We can find more guys like them in the future. I am not concerned that Alex Pressly, Darin Masroianni and Brooks Raley are gone. If I told my wife and friends their responses would be all the same. Who are they? Exactly!
  2. Sconnie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by goulik
    None of the losses were part of a future and our present day is an experiment to find the future. We can find more guys like them in the future. I am not concerned that Alex Pressly, Darin Masroianni and Brooks Raley are gone. If I told my wife and friends their responses would be all the same. Who are they? Exactly!
    I have been back and forth on Bartlett [Et Al] throughout the offseason, and I might be one of the quotes. Signing one of Bartlett, Kubel, Guerrier, in isolation isn't the end of the world, but when it's 3 and you owe all three of them roster spots, that's a lot of risk.

    Pressly and Mastro are both sorely missed, and Raley was certainly more a part of the future than Guerrier. This team is doubly worse because of Bartlett and Guerrier's presence and the players lost associated as such.

    if Pressly and Mastro are so easily replaceable, why is Hicks futilely hacking away and losing fly balls with the big league club?
  3. Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
    Thanks jorgenswest for putting this together.

    Like Sconnie said, a case might be made for any one of those guys in isolation. Now step back and consider that all three of them together were essentially promised a spot on the team, regardless of their spring training performance (or, non performance) or regardless of what if anything they had to contribute.
  4. Seth Stohs's Avatar
    1.) They're not missing anything in Presley,Mastroianni or Raley.
    2.) The Twins have done a great job of adding minor league free agents in recent years. The fact that three of them this year were former Twins doesn't change that.
    3.) Deduno, Burton, Fien have been pretty important pitchers for the Twins, and the Twins have had contributions from many minor league signings going back many years, including '87 and '91.
    4.) Sometimes minor league signings are brought in so as not to rush top prospects and put them in situations that they can stunt their growth.
    5.) Kubel was a given to make the roster, and he's shown that to be a good decision to this point in the season. He's a proven hitter who was hurt last year. He was brought in to DH, but he's been much more.
    6.) I liked the Bartlett signing. He had missed a year and a half, so I thought it would be a great situation to sign him, bring him to camp, and then get him to Rochester to play all over the diamond and see if he could shake off the rust and potentially become a utility type. Or, with Pedro Florimon as the incumbent, maybe he would have a chance to start at SS at some point during the season if needed. I think having him on the opening day roster was a mistake, but that doesn't make the minor league signing a bad thing.
    7.) As for Guerrier, he's been a solid MLB guy for a decade. No harm in signing him. I guess they could keep Logan Darnell at the back of the bullpen, pitching irregularly, but I would think they (and we) would want him preparing as a starting pitcher for now.
    8.) Hey, that Chris Colabello guy turned out to be a pretty strong minor league signing.

    To summarize, putting together an MLB roster can be done in many ways... Sure would be nice if they were all 1st round picks who turned out, right?
  5. jorgenswest's Avatar
    Signing decline phase players in hope that they will return to former success keeps the Twins from seeking other options.

    All of the successful signings listed above were younger than the trio signed this winter. They all came with multiple years of team control. They didn't come with opt out dates that forced the Twins hand with roster decisions.

    Those signings can not be compared to the signings of the former Twins trio in terms of risk or upside.
  6. Paul Pleiss's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs
    Sure would be nice if they were all 1st round picks who turned out, right?
    Yes, yes it would. I know the draft is a bit of a lottery, and that not everyone works out, but it feels like the Twins either missed badly or allowed their first round picks to leave the organization.

    But I think there is also something more on the topic of letting "stars" get out of the organization, because the team was unwilling to pony up for a large contract, or trading them away to "try to get something." There seems to me to be a large number of former Twins being very successful for other teams in MLB. Have the Twins just given up on some players too soon? Should the Twins should have paid guys to keep them? Clearly letting Johan go worked out in the long run for the Twins as the Mets have largely paid him to rehab from injury. There does though, seem to be a lot of successful former Twins out there, especially starters who found success after leaving MN (and no, this is not my attempt to get a rant going on Rick Anderson, which is someething else I enjoy).

    Also, Torii Hunter, I miss that guy.
  7. SgtSchmidt11's Avatar
    The signings are STILL not bad ideas, it's the use of 40 man and 25 man roster space that is the issue.
  8. Sconnie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs
    1.) They're not missing anything in Presley,Mastroianni or Raley.
    2.) The Twins have done a great job of adding minor league free agents in recent years. The fact that three of them this year were former Twins doesn't change that.
    3.) Deduno, Burton, Fien have been pretty important pitchers for the Twins, and the Twins have had contributions from many minor league signings going back many years, including '87 and '91.
    4.) Sometimes minor league signings are brought in so as not to rush top prospects and put them in situations that they can stunt their growth.
    5.) Kubel was a given to make the roster, and he's shown that to be a good decision to this point in the season. He's a proven hitter who was hurt last year. He was brought in to DH, but he's been much more.
    6.) I liked the Bartlett signing. He had missed a year and a half, so I thought it would be a great situation to sign him, bring him to camp, and then get him to Rochester to play all over the diamond and see if he could shake off the rust and potentially become a utility type. Or, with Pedro Florimon as the incumbent, maybe he would have a chance to start at SS at some point during the season if needed. I think having him on the opening day roster was a mistake, but that doesn't make the minor league signing a bad thing.
    7.) As for Guerrier, he's been a solid MLB guy for a decade. No harm in signing him. I guess they could keep Logan Darnell at the back of the bullpen, pitching irregularly, but I would think they (and we) would want him preparing as a starting pitcher for now.
    8.) Hey, that Chris Colabello guy turned out to be a pretty strong minor league signing.

    To summarize, putting together an MLB roster can be done in many ways... Sure would be nice if they were all 1st round picks who turned out, right?
    how do 1 and 4 jive? Raley I get, I see him as more of an upside guy for the future, but he won't help the big league club this year, maybe he would've helped in 2015. Man Hicks needs some AAA time, and have another AAAA stop gap such as Mastroianni or Pressly to Platoon with Fuld and to spell Kubel would allow Hicks to get his head straight and his fielding and swing together, and the roster crunch wouldn't hurt so bad. This would also leave a CF with options at AAA for when the unforeseen happens.

    Of course, Hicks in AAA would also be debated...
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