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Fire Dan Gladden

Thrylos98, Scott Baker, and Twins Daily Leadership

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Before I begin, a quick recap for those who don't know what has been going on.

A while back, Thrylos started a thread by posting that, according to a source, Scott Baker had signed a 3 year contract with the Twins. The deal had not been announced, but Thrylos said it was signed and done, and it would be announced. A few people responded in disbelief, Thrylos responded in a demeaning fashion. A few days ago, news came out that Baker actually signed with the Cubs. The thread turned into a pile on Thrylos. John Bonnes attempted to diffuse the situation warning that by attacking incorrect sources, future posters with "inside information" would not put their neck on the line for fear of retribution. His post was essentially ignored. A short while later, Brock closed the thread.

You can see the entire thread here:

http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php...e-signed-Baker

I have disagreed with John, Seth, et. al., many times before. I have posted to this effect. But I have to say that this is the first time I have been truly disappointed in the Twins Daily leadership group.

There are a few points I would like to make:

1) Thrylos is not a rookie poster. On the contrary, he is among the most prolific posters on the Twins Daily website. I can honestly say that his comments are usually among the most negative, argumentative, and demeaning of all the posters here. The fact that there were so many shots taken at Thrylos (including one by Parker Hageman) should tell you how Thrylos is generally viewed by the Twins Daily readers.

2) Thrylos could easily have avoided this situation by being half a step more cautious in reporting his information. He could have qualified the statement in any number of ways, but he chose not to. Furthermore, he invited challenges by posting aggressive replies to those individuals that wondered about the validity of his information.

3) When it was officially announced Baker signed with the Cubs, it looked as though TD went into protect Thrylos mode. Bonnes makes his comment about not attacking source-citers (I'll come back to this). Brock closes the thread. I find it very sad that there posts and posts of Thrylos attacking other comments, making wild accusations, and pushing around other posters, yet when the tables turn on said individual, TD make moves to protect him. They may say that they weren't, but it can't be viewed any other way.

John Bonnes' comments about not attacking individuals that cite sources because it can scare away others from posting in the future is also way off base. All of the negative comments about Thrylos on the thread were not made because a source was wrong. They were made as a direct result of Thrylos' past posting history, including his own responses in that thread. Aggressive, negative posters like Thrylos do substantially more damage to your new reader base than any single thread like this could possibly do.
Allowing daily attacks from posters like Thrylos, then protecting them when the tables are turned, is a poor move that smacks in the face of what you say Twins Daily wants to accomplish.

I understand that the TD group at times walks a fine line. Their hope is that this site doesn't turn into a bashing free-for-all, but a stays a more intelligent discourse on all things Twins related. I applaud their efforts in this regard. But if you want to protect somebody, protect your new readers, not somebody like Thrylos. Be more diligent on the slams and rips. Posters at Thrylos' level do not need to be protected, and have earned (both positive and negative) the responses coming to them.

It should also be known that, at the time of this blog, Thrylos has not posted anything since the Baker news came out. No response, nothing. That speaks volumes to me.

I hope that situation reminds the TD staff about where they want this site to go, and what is more important: protecting one individual, or protecting their readership.
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  1. Rosterman's Avatar
    I agree. Over on SB Nation, one is taken aback, at times at pieces that do show they are humorous takes or fiction. But to have a blatant piece get billing as being legit, and even running on top of real news as it recently did, is just not right. I don't pay attention to all those other facts regarding the poster that you mention, but at some point...well, it is someone hurting the site as a whole in the long run.
  2. Twins Twerp's Avatar
    We should have a vote to remove thyroid...all in favor?
  3. old nurse's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp
    We should have a vote to remove thyroid...all in favor?
    Then they would also have to remove you for all the garbage you posted
  4. Seth Stohs's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosterman
    I agree. Over on SB Nation, one is taken aback, at times at pieces that do show they are humorous takes or fiction. But to have a blatant piece get billing as being legit, and even running on top of real news as it recently did, is just not right. I don't pay attention to all those other facts regarding the poster that you mention, but at some point...well, it is someone hurting the site as a whole in the long run.
    I just want to point out that we (TD Leadership) monitored this situation very closely right from the point that we saw Thrylos tweet that Baker had agreed to sign with the Twins (minutes before he posted it as a forum thread here). You will notice that none of the TD folks gave it any credibility. We never acknowledged it as legit. We did not push it out as an Article. It stayed in the forum, and was met with a mixture of skepticism and some belief. We made the decision to let it go and see what happens.

    We all can learn a lot from the situation. If people do hear news and want to post it as a forum, be sure it's legit. Be sure the source is really legit, and then be sure to discuss your rumor's credibility within the forum.

    I have broken quite a few stories at SethSpeaks.net or on Twitter or seen here at Twins Daily. A couple of them have taken up to 12-15 hours for the team to verify or to make public, and that can be nerve-wracking. But the sources I've had, I've had 100% confidence in posting. Obviously in most of these cases, I'm not going to name my sources, but I like to think that over 8-10 years, I've built up some credibility.

    However, when we have a site where the four of us write and we also have forums, things can get cloudy. In this blog, Brock is blamed for shutting down that thread. He shut it down because I couldn't figure out how to do it first. It wasn't, at least in my mind, about protecting Thyrlos. It was about moving on. It had been a day, and lots of people had their say. It was my opinion that the thread just needed to be done so we could all move on. That isn't to say that the thread should be forgotten, or that the next time Thrylos posts a blog reporting something that it isn't fair game to be questioned unmercifully.

    We have always wanted the forums to be good, strong, meaningful, thoughtful and a place people can go to have quality discussions. We understand the inherent nature of forums and know that there is a small percentage who choose to act a certain way. We have sent 'warning' messages to some people about overkilling certain topics or excessive bashing of a person or so. In fact, some people have been banned for various lengths of time following warnings.

    I don't want to fully speak for all five of us at Twins Daily, but know that we are trying We may make some mistakes, but our goal has always been to create a community of Twins fans able to discuss appropriately the positives and the negatives of our Twins team. Of course, with a couple of 96+ loss seasons, it can be tough. We want to be consistent, and we want to churn out quality content that TWins fans will enjoy. We want a thoughtful forum, but we know that some people do come in with the purpose of destroying that.

    We do believe that we provide Twins fans with the best overall experience of any Twins web site,yet we acknowledge that we can and we need to always strive to improve. And we will. Thank you for your concerns.
  5. Nick Nelson's Avatar
    I don't really get what you were hoping for. The thread wasn't deleted. It's still there, for everyone to see just how completely wrong (and arrogant) Thrylos was. But there was no need to let people keep piling on, flinging insults and puffing their chest to say "I told you so." That's the kind of stuff that turns away new users. This is a place to discuss baseball.

    Those of us who've been familiar with Thrylos know this isn't the first time this has happened. He reports "exclusive news," it usually turns out to be wrong, then he disappears for a while. I'm sure we now won't see him pop up for some time, so you really don't have to worry about him.

    Maybe the lesson to be learned here is, don't believe everything you read on the forum, especially when it's unsourced and from people who haven't won your trust. If something comes up that we believe to be credible, we'll acknowledge it and probably move it to the front page of the site. We can't be held responsible for everything that people post on the message board, although I think in the future we'll probably handle a situation like this a little differently. Speculation needs to be presented as such or it will be removed.
  6. birdwatcher's Avatar
    C'mon, readers! Where's your sense of humor? Please please please don't scare thrylos away! He's part of the fun.

    And kudos to the TD leadership. You guys are terrific! One suggestion, though: you don't tolerate readers bashing each other, and that's good. However, you have loads of tolerance for readers who bash the hell out of Twins management and ownership, and the occasional player. I mean, really harsh name-calling and character assasinations. You might want to tighten up that part of things a wee bit. There are so many intelligent, informed, rational, and civil contributors. The mean-spirited name-callers, if not called out by you guys, should be fair game.

    I call thrylos and others out on their inappropriate stuff, and so do others. But I still like his bizzare thoughts when he is simply arrogant but not hateful. So, come on back, thrylos. And Jim Rantz did a spectacular job even though he's never seen a laptop according to you....
  7. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    There seems to be a gross misunderstanding of what forums are and what they represent on Twins Daily. Forums are a free-for-all, a place where every user has a voice and can talk about any baseball subject they see fit (within reason). We do not sanction forum posts. They are not "official" Twins Daily topics. They are (mostly) user-generated subjects where baseball minds can bounce ideas and opinions off one another. No one at Twins Daily ran with Thrylos' report on Baker. It didn't make the front page of the site, which is the "official" section of Twins Daily where Nick, John, Parker, Seth, and others report on news they believe in from sources they trust. None of that happened. We monitored Thrylos' thread but didn't take part in legitimizing the "news". It's akin to blaming KFAN because someone on RubeChat announced that the Twins have traded Joe Mauer for A-Rod and a bag of balls. While we try to run a tighter ship than RubeChat (and thankfully so), part of running a successful forum means making allowances for users to say (sometimes stupid and off-base) things about Minnesota sports.

    As for the thread, I thank Seth for taking the bullet there but I was more than happy to close the thread. We didn't delete it, we closed it. It's there should you wish to reference it in the future. We were not protecting Thrylos, we were protecting the forum itself. We kept the thread open long enough for people to have their say on the subject and once it descended into "everybody dog-pile Thrylos", there was no reason to keep it open. At that point, the thread was no longer about baseball. It was about mocking another user with no substantive baseball discussion. To boot, another thread had been created that actually discussed the baseball topic at hand; the signing of Scott Baker by the Cubs. There was simply no reason to keep Thrylos' thread open other than to feed users' want of vengeance for Thrylos' arrogance and mis-reporting of the news.
  8. Fire Dan Gladden's Avatar
    Seth, Nick, and Brock:

    I don't believe you read what I wrote. My discussion was not aimed at whether or not you "supported" the actual rumor, rather how you appeared to support to individual posting the source. Those are two different discussions.

    At no time did I claim TD leadership took the rumor as fact, nor did I say that any of you as individuals reported this as fact. The fact that multiple individuals have debunked Thrylos citing sources and claiming rumors should be enough for everybody to draw their own conclusions.

    Once the Baker news came out, John's post and Brock's closing the thread gave the impression that TD leadership was protecting Thrylos. Whether that was the intention or not, that was not how it came across.

    I know that TD leadership is working to maintain a level of civility around here. Brock and I had a discussion regarding this exact thing prior to the rules coming out a while back. I do agree with this, and feel it is a good thing for the TD site.

    My concern is how the TD brass handled the situation. If somebody other than Thrylos had posted this exact same thing, would it have received this level of scrutiny? By Seth's own admission, you guys monitored this closely from the start. Why? Because you believed the post might be true, or you knew that with Thrylos' history, this was going to blow up?

    My problem is that Thrylos has a well earned, very public, negative perception. If somebody with 10 posts had posted this and was wrong, those same comments would have been there and the thread would not be closed. But because you know Thrylos, it was handled differently and you are protecting him. Whether you want to admit it or not, the "piling on" as you put it, only hurts Thrylos. In 2-3 days, this all would have blown over by itself.

    By closing the thread, you are validating the bashing that Thrylos does. This is not about the integrity of a website. If it was, Thrylos, and those like him, would be under tighter control in how they comment. This comes across as very hypocritical for a site trying to protect individuals from bashing, then validating one of it's chief bashers.

    Thrylos will come back in the next few days. He will start ripping individuals on a local level again. Where will you be when that happens?
  9. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    You have a couple of fair points there but they assume that we haven't been talking to some of these posters in private. If we openly criticize posters on the forum for being negative, we receive complaints that we're "engaging them and distracting the forums". If we do it privately, we receive complaints that we're "protecting" negative posters. If we keep that thread open, we receive complaints that the forums are too negative and that we will allow personal insults when it suits our purposes. If we close it, we receive complaints that people aren't allowed to voice their opinions.

    Do you see the problem here? We've *mostly* settled on policy in regards to how we approach and deal with problem posters. Protecting Thrylos was never a consideration in our decision (at least, not any more than we "protect" any poster who has personal insults directed at him/her). We try to do things behind the scenes to cause as little commotion as possible on the forums. As such, situations such as this one will be misinterpreted by some. Overall, we feel it's better than the alternative.
  10. Nick Nelson's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Dan Gladden
    My problem is that Thrylos has a well earned, very public, negative perception. If somebody with 10 posts had posted this and was wrong, those same comments would have been there and the thread would not be closed.
    We didn't do anything to "protect" Thrylos that we wouldn't have done for any other member in the same position. Again, we don't want users insulting eachother, regardless of the reasoning behind it. Are you under the impression that this is the first time we've locked a thread because ad hominem attacks were going too far?
  11. Twins Twerp's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse
    Then they would also have to remove you for all the garbage you posted
    Thrylos sympathizer huh? You don't have to be so mean about it

    (I would assume this would qualify as another garbage post)
  12. old nurse's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp
    Thrylos sympathizer huh? You don't have to be so mean about it

    (I would assume this would qualify as another garbage post)
    You have a very short memory.

    I in the past have responded to Thyrloss with fact. What would call what you posted in response to Thryloss on Baker? If you want Thyrlos thrown off for posting inaccuracies then clean your own house first.
  13. beckmt's Avatar
    I think the TD staff does a wonderful and somewhat thankless job. Running out posters down with very negitive comments should be curtained, maybe first with private offline discussions and then if continued with public comments. For all that is said Thyrlos is far from the most negitive poster on this site. However deliberate running down of a specific poster or posters(especially if they are new, is a quick way to become and irrelivent site). All people(posters) make mistakes, give the newbies some rope and I think you did a great job of ending the pileon a Thyrosses error. This forum is for information and is supposed to be fun.
  14. JB_Iowa's Avatar
    Silly me. I thought that the TD use rules were simply that people were never supposed to attack other individuals.

    Attack ideas? yes. Individuals? No.

    That's basically what I see how I see any "direction" or "support" provided by TD leadership.
  15. glunn's Avatar
    When I read Thrylos' original post I was skeptical. But even if I had believed what I said, I would not be very upset to learn that he was mistaken. We live in a difficult world, and being misled about Baker was not a big deal to me.

    And it seems to me that the TD leadership handled this with thoughtfulness and restraint. If they had erased the thread, then that would have bothered me. But the thread is still there for all to see, and Thrylos received a lot of criticism that is still there for people to read.

    This is my favorite Twins site and I am hopeful that we can all move on and have even more fun next year. I value everyone who posts here, whether I agree with them or not, and even if they disagree with me. We share a common bond that adds meaning to our lives, and when the Twins win, Thrylos will be our brother in celebrating the victory.
  16. mike wants wins's Avatar
    I agree with the TD owners. There was no use in keeping the thread open. I have no idea what value in making the world better or more interesting continuing to pile on thrylos would serve. At no point have I ever felt the TD owners have ever protected anyone and their ability to make themselves look good or bad....
  17. Fire Dan Gladden's Avatar
    Now that Thrylos has decided to grace us with his presence after 30 days of hiding, I wonder if his commenting will be tempered at all.

    Nope, it hasn't.

    Next I wonder if he will say anything about the Baker "fiasco"?

    Your move Thrylos.
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