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  • Twins Trade Francisco Liriano To White Sox

    The Minnesota Twins traded Francisco Liriano to the White Sox tonight for infielder Eduardo Escobar and left-handed pitcher Pedro Hernandez. Liriano was scheduled to start Sunday's game versus the Cleveland Indians. Brian Duensing will take his turn in the rotation.

    Neither prospect the Twins received is highly, or even semi-highly, regarded. Escobar was not in Baseball America's list of the White Sox top 10 prospects prior to the season. He was #7 on Baseball Prospectus' list, but is listed as a 2-star (out of five) prospect.

    Escobar is just 23 years old and has spent this year in the majors with the White Sox. It's not clear why; it appears he have two option years left and it's hard to make a case that he's earned that promotion. Last year he hit .266 with a .303 OBP in AAA. In fact, his career OBP through all the levels of the minors is just .315 and he's struck out 100+ times in his last two years. Not too surprisingly, he's hitting .195 in the majors, albeit in just 92 plate appearances.

    Pedro Hernandez also did not not make Baseball America's top 10 and ranked 15th on the Baseball Prospectus list. He's pitched at three level this year: 12 starts in AA, two starts in AAA and a single major league start. But he's clearly been rushed through AAA with just six starts. He's 23 years old.

    He fits the stereotyped Twins pitcher - good control but not dominating stuff, or at least dominating as measure by strikeouts. His career minor league average is 7.4 K/9, which is below average. This year in AA he posted a 2.06 ERA - but also struck out just 37 batters in 68 IP. That's a lower rate than even Nick Blackburn had in AA.

    Hernandez has also never pitcher more than 116 inning in the minors or had more than 18 starts. He has been used as a reliever several time throughout the minors. However, he has shown outstanding control with a K to BB ratio approaching 5:1, although that has suffered as he has made his way up the minor league ladder.

    I've made the mistake several times of leaping to conclusions about lower level prospects that Terry Ryan has targeted who have turned out far better than I might have hoped. Jason Bartlett and Alexi Casilla both some to mind, and I'm sure there are more. But at first glance, it looks like Liriano was traded to a division rival for two C prospects that might fill needs but are long shots to have any long-lasting impact on the organization.
    Comments 189 Comments
    1. Rivas#1Fan's Avatar
      Rivas#1Fan -
      Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
      For what the Twins received (organizational filler at best). Mr.Ryan could have sat on it 3 extra days to see if something unfolded that would be more benefitial to the Minnesota Twins cause trade wise. As we stand now, we have jack ****, compared to having Liriano. If it boils down to offering Liriano Arbitration in free agency - no thanks, but it is an option. I would have been stead fast, kept Liriano, held my honor and pride and not have been a trade chump.
      It would have been interesting to see how this would have played out if Liriano's spot in the rotation didn't come up until Tuesday or Wednesday rather than Sunday. Perhaps it would have been easier to play the waiting game without a potential value crushing performance waiting in the wings before the deadline.
    1. glunn's Avatar
      glunn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
      I started a joke, which started the whole world crying,
      But I didn't see that the joke was on me, oh no.
      Til I finally died, which started the whole world living,
      Oh, if I'd only seen that the joke was on me.
    1. Kobs's Avatar
      Kobs -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rivas#1Fan View Post
      It would have been interesting to see how this would have played out if Liriano's spot in the rotation didn't come up until Tuesday or Wednesday rather than Sunday. Perhaps it would have been easier to play the waiting game without a potential value crushing performance waiting in the wings before the deadline.
      Definitely, if Liriano had **** the bed in his next start, the Twins might not have gotten anything of value for him.
    1. glunn's Avatar
      glunn -
      Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
      The ONLY was I can think to justify this trade is if they thing or know that Liriano is hurt, possibly seriously hurt. Otherwise, this is just foolish.
      Isn't there some protocol for disclosing injuries? And if the Twins' renowned medical staff is telling Ryan that someone is hurt, that might not be the most reliable information.
    1. nicksaviking's Avatar
      nicksaviking -
      The biggest probelm for me is that they traded him for two bums who are required to be on the 40-man. Why the hell would Ryan do this? These guys look to be DFA candidates the second their option years are up, but in the mean time who are we kicking off? Guerra? Slama? Waldrop? Tosoni? Surely Ryan could have recieved better quality prospects if he had picked players lower in a team's system. I don't think he thought this one through at all. Terrible decision; I'd have rather hung onto Liriano and rolled the dice that he was worthy of a qualifying offer. Obviously the Twins wouldn't have missed out on much even if they lost him for nothing in the offseason and there would be room to add Hicks and/or anyone else who needed to be added come this winter.
    1. 70charger's Avatar
      70charger -
      Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
      My moneys would be on Frankie for the strikeout, because in Delmon's mind, home plate encompasses the square footage of a small KFC drive through.
      That's not fair! Delmon has never missed anything in a KFC drive through!
    1. YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
      YourHouseIsMyHouse -
      Do we trust these guys to trade Span now??
    1. Kobs's Avatar
      Kobs -
      The following conversation taking place would really be the only way this trade is remotely tolerable:

      JR: If Mauer and Doumit are healthy, no one else should start at catcher.
      Burl: Well, Lirianosie really likes having Butsey behind the plate, and I like having a "B" on the lineup ca...
      JR: Can I put you on hold for a second?
      Burl: Sure.
      ...
      JR: You still there?
      Burl: I'm still here.
      JR: I just traded Liriano to the Chicago. You were saying?
    1. greengoblinrulz's Avatar
      greengoblinrulz -
      At least if we trade Span, we have multiple OFs in the system just about ready.
      There isnt a pitcher in sight anywhere (tho I like Hendriks alot still)
    1. Bark's Lounge's Avatar
      Bark's Lounge -
      Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
      Til I finally died, which started the whole world living,
      Oh, if I'd only seen that the joke was on me.
      Excellent Glunn, excellent! Early Bee Gees are my preferred.
    1. one_eyed_jack's Avatar
      one_eyed_jack -
      A little perspective for those of you who are ripping this trade - let's not forget that we're talking about a starting pitcher who 2 months ago was pulled from what is without question the worst starting rotation in the American League, and probably in all of baseball.

      It was simply wishful thinking to believe that we'd get much more than we did for him.
    1. glunn's Avatar
      glunn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
      For what the Twins received (organizational filler at best). Mr.Ryan could have sat on it 3 extra days to see if something unfolded that would be more benefitial to the Minnesota Twins cause trade wise. As we stand now, we have jack ****, compared to having Liriano. If it boils down to offering Liriano Arbitration in free agency - no thanks, but it is an option. I would have been stead fast, kept Liriano, held my honor and pride and not have been a trade chump.
      That makes sense to me Mr. Lounge. And i would add that sending him to the White Sox is demoralizing to us fans, who have already suffered enough. This will work out only if Liriano sucks going forward. Otherwise, this will be sickening.
    1. 70charger's Avatar
      70charger -
      Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
      A little perspective for those of you who are ripping this trade - let's not forget that we're talking about a starting pitcher who 2 months ago was pulled from what is without question the worst starting rotation in the American League, and probably in all of baseball.

      It was simply wishful thinking to believe that we'd get much more than we did for him.
      I'm not piling on, I'm just contributing to critical mass.

      On top of what this excellent post says, Liriano's current season ERA+ is 77. He's far, far below average. Last year, his whole-season ERA+ was 80. Let's face it. He's NOT A GOOD PITCHER!
    1. Kobs's Avatar
      Kobs -
      Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
      A little perspective for those of you who are ripping this trade - let's not forget that we're talking about a starting pitcher who 2 months ago was pulled from what is without question the worst starting rotation in the American League, and probably in all of baseball.

      It was simply wishful thinking to believe that we'd get much more than we did for him.
      Is it wishful thinking to believe that the Twins could ask for players who aren't as obviously terrible as Eduardo Escobar?
    1. 70charger's Avatar
      70charger -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kobs View Post
      Is it wishful thinking to believe that the Twins could ask for players who aren't as obviously terrible as Eduardo Escobar?
      Ask for? Yes.

      Get? No.

      Next question.
    1. Riverbrian's Avatar
      Riverbrian -
      Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
      For what the Twins received (organizational filler at best). Mr.Ryan could have sat on it 3 extra days to see if something unfolded that would be more benefitial to the Minnesota Twins cause trade wise. As we stand now, we have jack ****, compared to having Liriano. If it boils down to offering Liriano Arbitration in free agency - no thanks, but it is an option. I would have been stead fast, kept Liriano, held my honor and pride and not have been a trade chump.
      I don't think the start tomorrow would have made a difference. Let's assume it was the best offer. Trust me... It's easier to swallow if you assume that.

      The best offer came from the team that LIT him up in his last start. His value was going to be the same.

      Now this is a guess... Maybe the White Sox threw in one of the players or upgraded one of the players if the Twins would agree before Liriano starts tomorrow.

      Another guess is that the deal was out there... Maybe TR spent today on the phone calling the Orioles...nthe Pirates...The Dodgers and said... I'm gonna have to take this trade with the White Sox... It's my best offer. Are you sure we can't talk about Britton... Player X and Y and Z for the any team he's been talking with.

      One last chance before I pull the trigger. Ok... Good luck to you... Keep in touch...

      Maybe TR got Liriano... The lesser deal out the way so he can focus on trading Span for a bigger deal in the next few days.

      Who knows... But I think we are all dealing with trying to find a place to store the feeling of over cooked expectations. I know I am but it is what it is.
    1. glunn's Avatar
      glunn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kobs View Post
      Definitely, if Liriano had **** the bed in his next start, the Twins might not have gotten anything of value for him.
      It is sounding like they got nothing of value, but only time will tell.
    1. Highabove's Avatar
      Highabove -
      Outside of Slowey and Silva,
      A good number of ex Twins Pitchers ended up finding themselves, once they left the Twins.
      I will throw in Jose Mijares who was a head case here, flourishing with the Royals.
      We all know the rest of the list.
      The possiblity exist for a little more frustration.
    1. 70charger's Avatar
      70charger -
      Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
      Outside of Slowey and Silva,
      A good number of ex Twins Pitchers ended up finding themselves, once they left the Twins.
      I will throw in Jose Mijares who was a head case here, flourishing with the Royals.
      We all know the rest of the list.
      Be ready for more frustration.
      I call B.S. And this has been covered in other threads. I don't think the numbers are on your side.

      Certainly, some pitchers have gotten better post-Twins. Many others have gotten better after joining the Twins. Many others we will never know about because they didn't move. The idea that we should be ready for frustration at the hands of Liriano is speculation piled on top of speculation, all of which flies in the face of actual history.
    1. johnnydakota's Avatar
      johnnydakota -
      Quote Originally Posted by twinswon1991 View Post
      Just remember that while Billy was the GM he deferred all scouting and personnel moves to TR and his good ole boys. Billy is responsible for the Mauer contract and other terrible contracts but TR and the Good Ole Boys are the reason there is no talent in the organization. This trade is more of the same.
      im betting this trade was ordered by owner jim pohlad to help derail the tigers as punishment for spending big in free agency , so ryan can say look the tiger spent and didnt win,,,,
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