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  • Twins Trade Francisco Liriano To White Sox

    The Minnesota Twins traded Francisco Liriano to the White Sox tonight for infielder Eduardo Escobar and left-handed pitcher Pedro Hernandez. Liriano was scheduled to start Sunday's game versus the Cleveland Indians. Brian Duensing will take his turn in the rotation.

    Neither prospect the Twins received is highly, or even semi-highly, regarded. Escobar was not in Baseball America's list of the White Sox top 10 prospects prior to the season. He was #7 on Baseball Prospectus' list, but is listed as a 2-star (out of five) prospect.

    Escobar is just 23 years old and has spent this year in the majors with the White Sox. It's not clear why; it appears he have two option years left and it's hard to make a case that he's earned that promotion. Last year he hit .266 with a .303 OBP in AAA. In fact, his career OBP through all the levels of the minors is just .315 and he's struck out 100+ times in his last two years. Not too surprisingly, he's hitting .195 in the majors, albeit in just 92 plate appearances.

    Pedro Hernandez also did not not make Baseball America's top 10 and ranked 15th on the Baseball Prospectus list. He's pitched at three level this year: 12 starts in AA, two starts in AAA and a single major league start. But he's clearly been rushed through AAA with just six starts. He's 23 years old.

    He fits the stereotyped Twins pitcher - good control but not dominating stuff, or at least dominating as measure by strikeouts. His career minor league average is 7.4 K/9, which is below average. This year in AA he posted a 2.06 ERA - but also struck out just 37 batters in 68 IP. That's a lower rate than even Nick Blackburn had in AA.

    Hernandez has also never pitcher more than 116 inning in the minors or had more than 18 starts. He has been used as a reliever several time throughout the minors. However, he has shown outstanding control with a K to BB ratio approaching 5:1, although that has suffered as he has made his way up the minor league ladder.

    I've made the mistake several times of leaping to conclusions about lower level prospects that Terry Ryan has targeted who have turned out far better than I might have hoped. Jason Bartlett and Alexi Casilla both some to mind, and I'm sure there are more. But at first glance, it looks like Liriano was traded to a division rival for two C prospects that might fill needs but are long shots to have any long-lasting impact on the organization.
    Comments 189 Comments
    1. greengoblinrulz's Avatar
      greengoblinrulz -
      Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
      Just an observation....
      MN seems to be more likely to trade for a player w/MLB experience than bring up their own
      How often have the Twins called up a player to make their debut @ 23 or younger (not including Sept callups).....not often
      Both players obtained today @ 23 made their MLB debuts this year
      Delmon, CGomez both made their debuts with another team @ 21...Lester Oliveras was 23 w/DET
      Of this roster....Mauer is one @ 21, Alex Burnett was 22, Liam Hendriks was 22 (Sept) , Perk was 23 (Sept..4gms) Alexi was 21 (Sept), Justin 22, Revere 22 (Sept), Benson/Parmellee (both 23 & Sept callups).
      Kevin Slowey was 23....Scott Baker was 23....Anthony Swarzak was 23.....Adam Johnson was 23....Jose MiJares was 23 (Sept) ...Rob Bowen was 23 (Sept) ....Michael Restovich was 23 (Sept).....Matt Garza was 22....Wilson Ramos was 22......Jason Kubel was 22 (Sept).....JD Durbin was 22 (Sept).....Jessie Crain was 21.....Francisco Liriano was 21 (Sept)
      All I found in the Gardy era
      Non Sept debuts.....10 players in 10 years in Gardy era made their debuts with him at 23 yrs old or younger.
    1. elephanthater's Avatar
      elephanthater -
      referencing an earlier post about how we shouldn't worry cause we still have willingham and span-they won't trade them. they have team friendly contracts and for some reason want to keep a team that can win 70 games. i would rather suffer through 3 years worse than this than be where we are now for the next 6.
    1. Pius Jefferson's Avatar
      Pius Jefferson -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Instead we got a hepatitis C prospect
      Is it that hard to believe that's what a rent-a-player with a 5.30 ERA and potential to be dominate would get?


      A couple of other things.

      1) Why not wait a couple of days? I doubt a bad start later today would have made any difference given they got a utility infielder and back of the end rotation guy.

      2) Pitching ....Pitching. This organization needs pitching and they get a P and a SS.

      3) I'd be curious what else what available. Both from other teams and the White Sox. I hope we don't find out lower level pitchers with more upside were passed over for a pitcher considered more major league ready.
    1. 70charger's Avatar
      70charger -
      Quote Originally Posted by Pius Jefferson View Post
      Is it that hard to believe that's what a rent-a-player with a 5.30 ERA and potential to be dominate would get?

      This. And as far as I'm concerned, if that potential to be dominant hasn't shown up consistently in the last six years, it's not gonna.
    1. Riverbrian's Avatar
      Riverbrian -
      Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
      how much can you really expect for a rental of an enigma?
      Kudos... Perfect line to describe the situation.

      It seems that no one likes their X mas present.

      The Twins were not going to offer him 12 million for the comp pick because he might take it.

      His trade value was about to hit the wall at the trade deadline. If no one offered a better package of players. You have to take the deal or you get nothing. And then we have a handful of starts in a Twins uniform(the farewell tour) on a team that isn't going to make the playoffs... Even if we score 30 runs this weekend against the Indians.

      With Span you can set the price high and keep him if the price isnt paid... With Morneau you can do the same because they are coming back. Under contract... It says so... With Willingham the same. Liriano was gone... There was almost no possibility of him playing for the Twins in 2013.

      Liriano wasn't going to be offered a contract next year. They can't spend that kind of money on someone who melts down as often as he has and believe me the Twins have had a front row seat for everyone of those meltdowns.

      I'm disappointed... I had dreams of a boatload of pitching prospects coming back but to be indignant over the deal is to assume that the Twins turned down something larger to make this trade.

      Does anyone believe that TR turned down Terehen and Delgado to make this deal instead. C'mon... can we give him the benefit of the doubt that he looked at what was out there and chose the best package.
    1. one_eyed_jack's Avatar
      one_eyed_jack -
      It's disappointing not to get more. But think about it from the perspective of the other teams. If you were the GM of the Braves, Cards, Angels, etc., would you have been willing to part with your best prospects for 2 months of Liriano?

      I wouldn't have.
    1. Willihammer's Avatar
      Willihammer -
      Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
      Suppose there's a game 163 between Detroit and Chicago, and it comes down to a battle between Frankie and Delmon - what would happen? Would that violate the laws of physics or something? They couldn't both lose the game for their team on the same play.
      My moneys would be on Frankie for the strikeout, because in Delmon's mind, home plate encompasses the square footage of a small KFC drive through.
    1. Rivas#1Fan's Avatar
      Rivas#1Fan -
      Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
      My moneys would be on Frankie for the strikeout, because in Delmon's mind, home plate encompasses the square footage of a small KFC drive through.
      Had to make it a KFC huh?
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      I'm intrigued by the SS to be honest. We need SP no doubt but our MI depth in the org is awful. His results have been bad but maybe the Twins see something that can be improved. 23 isnt young, but at least there is still some potential improvement moving forward.
    1. Pius Jefferson's Avatar
      Pius Jefferson -
      Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
      The ONLY was I can think to justify this trade is if they thing or know that Liriano is hurt, possibly seriously hurt. Otherwise, this is just foolish.
      That or this was going rate for a guy with 'potential'.
    1. greengoblinrulz's Avatar
      greengoblinrulz -
      John, you missed it.
      Escobar was 10th by Baseball America entering the 2012 season.
      He was also 5th for the Sox entering the 2011 season
      He was also 19th entering the 2010 season.
      Still suxx no matter where he was listed
      Dont we already have this guy, just names Pedro Florimon in AAA??
    1. Kobs's Avatar
      Kobs -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      I'm intrigued by the SS to be honest.
      It's not every day you can bring in a guy who can't hit for average, but makes up for it by being unable to draw a walk.
    1. Rivas#1Fan's Avatar
      Rivas#1Fan -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kobs View Post
      It's not every day you can bring in a guy who can't hit for average, but makes up for it by being unable to draw a walk.
      Well it's not every day, but it is every day game after a night game.
    1. Ultima Ratio's Avatar
      Ultima Ratio -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rivas#1Fan View Post
      Well it's not every day, but it is every day game after a night game.
      Rim shot. Good one
    1. Willihammer's Avatar
      Willihammer -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rivas#1Fan View Post
      Had to make it a KFC huh?
      Simma da'own, P.C. Brigadier, I have 4 times the post you have thus I am 4 times the authority on (fried chicken? let's face it - true) racial stereotypes (I'm white, and I like fried chicken, too FYI) Until you make one more post anyway (do it, do it, do it, do it, 1, 2, 3, now, do it, 1, 2, 3
    1. Bark's Lounge's Avatar
      Bark's Lounge -
      Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
      Kudos... Perfect line to describe the situation.

      It seems that no one likes their X mas present.

      The Twins were not going to offer him 12 million for the comp pick because he might take it.

      His trade value was about to hit the wall at the trade deadline. If no one offered a better package of players. You have to take the deal or you get nothing. And then we have a handful of starts in a Twins uniform(the farewell tour) on a team that isn't going to make the playoffs... Even if we score 30 runs this weekend against the Indians.

      With Span you can set the price high and keep him if the price isnt paid... With Morneau you can do the same because they are coming back. Under contract... It says so... With Willingham the same. Liriano was gone... There was almost no possibility of him playing for the Twins in 2013.

      Liriano wasn't going to be offered a contract next year. They can't spend that kind of money on someone who melts down as often as he has and believe me the Twins have had a front row seat for everyone of those meltdowns.

      I'm disappointed... I had dreams of a boatload of pitching prospects coming back but to be indignant over the deal is to assume that the Twins turned down something larger to make this trade.

      Does anyone believe that TR turned down Terehen and Delgado to make this deal instead. C'mon... can we give him the benefit of the doubt that he looked at what was out there and chose the best package.
      For what the Twins received (organizational filler at best). Mr.Ryan could have sat on it 3 extra days to see if something unfolded that would be more benefitial to the Minnesota Twins cause trade wise. As we stand now, we have jack ****, compared to having Liriano. If it boils down to offering Liriano Arbitration in free agency - no thanks, but it is an option. I would have been stead fast, kept Liriano, held my honor and pride and not have been a trade chump.
    1. greengoblinrulz's Avatar
      greengoblinrulz -
      Who plays SS in ROC now....Escobar a great field, no hit player or Pedro Florimon a great field no hit player????
    1. Pius Jefferson's Avatar
      Pius Jefferson -
      Is this new pitcher getting called up from Rochester?
    1. glunn's Avatar
      glunn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rivas#1Fan View Post
      On the bright side, this trade is going to save me the money I would have had to spend on cotton candy for the nephew, when I'm able to leave early after Duensing gives up 8 runs in 5 innings.
      Well said. I am not even going to bother to set the DVR for tomorrow's game.
    1. greengoblinrulz's Avatar
      greengoblinrulz -
      Have we heard who is called up from ROC......Oliveras is my guess for now.
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