Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
  • Twins Trade Francisco Liriano To White Sox

    The Minnesota Twins traded Francisco Liriano to the White Sox tonight for infielder Eduardo Escobar and left-handed pitcher Pedro Hernandez. Liriano was scheduled to start Sunday's game versus the Cleveland Indians. Brian Duensing will take his turn in the rotation.

    Neither prospect the Twins received is highly, or even semi-highly, regarded. Escobar was not in Baseball America's list of the White Sox top 10 prospects prior to the season. He was #7 on Baseball Prospectus' list, but is listed as a 2-star (out of five) prospect.

    Escobar is just 23 years old and has spent this year in the majors with the White Sox. It's not clear why; it appears he have two option years left and it's hard to make a case that he's earned that promotion. Last year he hit .266 with a .303 OBP in AAA. In fact, his career OBP through all the levels of the minors is just .315 and he's struck out 100+ times in his last two years. Not too surprisingly, he's hitting .195 in the majors, albeit in just 92 plate appearances.

    Pedro Hernandez also did not not make Baseball America's top 10 and ranked 15th on the Baseball Prospectus list. He's pitched at three level this year: 12 starts in AA, two starts in AAA and a single major league start. But he's clearly been rushed through AAA with just six starts. He's 23 years old.

    He fits the stereotyped Twins pitcher - good control but not dominating stuff, or at least dominating as measure by strikeouts. His career minor league average is 7.4 K/9, which is below average. This year in AA he posted a 2.06 ERA - but also struck out just 37 batters in 68 IP. That's a lower rate than even Nick Blackburn had in AA.

    Hernandez has also never pitcher more than 116 inning in the minors or had more than 18 starts. He has been used as a reliever several time throughout the minors. However, he has shown outstanding control with a K to BB ratio approaching 5:1, although that has suffered as he has made his way up the minor league ladder.

    I've made the mistake several times of leaping to conclusions about lower level prospects that Terry Ryan has targeted who have turned out far better than I might have hoped. Jason Bartlett and Alexi Casilla both some to mind, and I'm sure there are more. But at first glance, it looks like Liriano was traded to a division rival for two C prospects that might fill needs but are long shots to have any long-lasting impact on the organization.
    Comments 189 Comments
    1. jorgenswest's Avatar
      jorgenswest -
      We traded 12 starts. We did not trade any member of the 2013 team.
    1. Highabove's Avatar
      Highabove -
      Phil Mackey is already heating up his (Twins fans are stupid routine.)
    1. Highabove's Avatar
      Highabove -
      Quote Originally Posted by 70charger View Post
      I call B.S. And this has been covered in other threads. I don't think the numbers are on your side.

      Certainly, some pitchers have gotten better post-Twins. Many others have gotten better after joining the Twins. Many others we will never know about because they didn't move. The idea that we should be ready for frustration at the hands of Liriano is speculation piled on top of speculation, all of which flies in the face of actual history.
      It's all speculation.
    1. snepp's Avatar
      snepp -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      I'm intrigued by the SS to be honest.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kobs View Post
      It's not every day you can bring in a guy who can't hit for average, but makes up for it by being unable to draw a walk.
      Quote Originally Posted by Rivas#1Fan View Post
      Well it's not every day, but it is every day game after a night game.

      Fantastic.
    1. Bark's Lounge's Avatar
      Bark's Lounge -
      Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
      I don't think the start tomorrow would have made a difference. Let's assume it was the best offer. Trust me... It's easier to swallow if you assume that.

      The best offer came from the team that LIT him up in his last start. His value was going to be the same.

      Now this is a guess... Maybe the White Sox threw in one of the players or upgraded one of the players if the Twins would agree before Liriano starts tomorrow.

      Another guess is that the deal was out there... Maybe TR spent today on the phone calling the Orioles...nthe Pirates...The Dodgers and said... I'm gonna have to take this trade with the White Sox... It's my best offer. Are you sure we can't talk about Britton... Player X and Y and Z for the any team he's been talking with.

      One last chance before I pull the trigger. Ok... Good luck to you... Keep in touch...

      Maybe TR got Liriano... The lesser deal out the way so he can focus on trading Span for a bigger deal in the next few days.

      Who knows... But I think we are all dealing with trying to find a place to store the feeling of over cooked expectations. I know I am but it is what it is.
      Hey RB, your points are outstanding and I do not think we are off on our philosophy by much. There was no sense in trading Liriano to the Sux for the package they received. The Players we received will never help us in any way or form as a winning ball club. Essentially we received nothing for Liriano, which is why I would have preferred to keep him and then lose him to FA. Pole position, poise, self respect and professionalism is what I want to see out of our GM. Chump trading is for the weak, we don't need this bull****.
    1. snepp's Avatar
      snepp -
      Carlos Gomez is jealous of Escobar's plate discipline.
    1. glunn's Avatar
      glunn -
      For fun I just looked at a White Sox fansite. As you can see for yourself, they don't seem very concerned about losing the two players that the Sox gave up in this trade.
    1. Rivas#1Fan's Avatar
      Rivas#1Fan -
      Let's be honest. This trade will likely end up having no effect on either team. The two "prospects" the Twins received will likely never contribute to the Major League club in any meaningful way. On the other hand Liriano will likely continue to be Liriano for the 2+ months the White Sox have him. He'll be just as likely to knock them out of the playoff race as he will be to propel them into October. The only winner will likely be Wrigley gum and their potential advertising campaign on account of Liriano's new habit.
    1. Highabove's Avatar
      Highabove -
      Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
      I'm sure that remaining and saved 2 million is now earmarked for SP FA in the offseason rather than just... well.... saved. [Sarcasm]
      The 2 million saved, is probably earmarked for the Pohlad's pocket.
    1. glunn's Avatar
      glunn -
      After looking at the writeup on Hernandez on the Sox website, I now feel a little better. He is listed there as the Sox's 20th best prospect, and they say that he can throw in the low 90's. If he can improve his breaking ball, he could be valuable, especially if Parker is willing to do an article breaking down what he is doing wrong.

      Note that you have to click the right arrow on the Sox website to get to him.
    1. Riverbrian's Avatar
      Riverbrian -
      Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
      Hey RB, your points are outstanding and I do not think we are off on our philosophy by much. There was no sense in trading Liriano to the Sux for the package they received. The Players we received will never help us in any way or form as a winning ball club. Essentially we received nothing for Liriano, which is why I would have preferred to keep him and then lose him to FA. Pole position, poise, self respect and professionalism is what I want to see out of our GM. Chump trading is for the weak, we don't need this bull****.
      Yeah... I'm with ya... It's hard to shake off... I was watching for trade announcements every day... Hoping for that deal that blows my socks off... This wasn't it. I'm not satisfied.

      But what If the Twins scouts like Escobar and project him to hit a little. Maybe they saw him down in Velenzuela and have been following him for 6 years and still think he could put it together.

      I don't know but my guess would be that the White Sox came up to the Twins Price and not the other way around or the Twins would have held out longer.

      I just don't think the market was there. As one eyed jack said perfectly. It's a 2 month rental of an enigma. Williams is rolling the dice and betting about what he can afford to lose. Williams would be crucified if Liriano goes into head case mode and it cost them Nestor Molina.

      I'm bummed... But I'm not going to hang the GM unless someone tells me that he took this deal over a deal for Shelby Miller or someone similiar.

      Besides... Escobar is a great SS name.
    1. old nurse's Avatar
      old nurse -
      Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
      Outside of Slowey and Silva,
      A good number of ex Twins Pitchers ended up finding themselves, once they left the Twins.
      I will throw in Jose Mijares who was a head case here, flourishing with the Royals.
      We all know the rest of the list.
      Be ready for more frustration.
      Lohse and Garza because the manager did not like them thus they were traded. Mijares you won't know for a couple more years. Many may have had one good year, but not an extended career.
    1. howeda7's Avatar
      howeda7 -
      Quote Originally Posted by 70charger View Post
      First of all, you have to offer him more than $12 million and have him turn it down to get a comp pick. I don't think Liriano's turning that down, because despite the "wisdom" shown on this board, major league GMs know he isn't worth that money. So we'd be stuck sinking too much money into a guy with a 5 ERA, and come next season we're in the exact same position.

      Second of all, you get one sandwich pick, and statistically, that one pick isn't likely to be a good major league player. Hell, many of those picks don't even make it to AAA. On the other hand, you trade Liriano for what we traded him for, and you get... two AAA players! Including one who was just traded for Carlos Quentin. I think some people here might be bad at math.
      +1. The reality is 75% of people were going to bitch and moan about this regardless. Offering him $12 million was no safe bet and the pick is not necessarily better. They're also save > $2 million in salary by doing it now. The pitcher is at least interesting and if the IF'er is Tolbert 2.0 that's not the worst trade ever made.
    1. edavis0308's Avatar
      edavis0308 -
      The thing that worries me the most is that TR is quoted via Strib that he thinks the pitcher has the stuff to stick as a starter, and he doesn't think he fits the pitch to contact mold. Also, the infielder has the potential to be a regular in the bigs (paraphrasing).

      How splendid.
    1. johnnydakota's Avatar
      johnnydakota -
      why didnt we just ask for terry doyle back...ryan sucks he need to change his depends and find a new retirement home
    1. Highabove's Avatar
      Highabove -
      Quote Originally Posted by edavis0308 View Post
      The thing that worries me the most is that TR is quoted via Strib that he thinks the pitcher has the stuff to stick as a starter, and he doesn't think he fits the pitch to contact mold. Also, the infielder has the potential to be a regular in the bigs (paraphrasing).

      How splendid.
      Does Ryan believe that he might have filled one of the starting Pitching spots next year?
    1. old nurse's Avatar
      old nurse -
      Quote Originally Posted by edavis0308 View Post
      The thing that worries me the most is that TR is quoted via Strib that he thinks the pitcher has the stuff to stick as a starter, and he doesn't think he fits the pitch to contact mold. Also, the infielder has the potential to be a regular in the bigs (paraphrasing).

      How splendid.
      What would you expect him to say? We traded an erratic pitcher that pitched maybe 5 good games in two years. We were not going to offer a qualifying offer. We got two stiffs and saved a few bucks.
      Ryan should talk optimistically about what he gets back in trade. Hernandez could be the next Joe Mays. Hopefully without the injury. If the Twins play good defense, it could work short term. Or Hernandez could have Liriano's record over the last two years.
      As a fan you have to hope that the Twins would spend the money of the contracts of Liriano and Pavano on two decent free agents. As a fan you should probably boycott a game if they don't sign at least one. (Make it the game with Houston).
    1. beckmt's Avatar
      beckmt -
      We got 2 players for Liriano, which is 2 more than we would have had. This also will cover the Twins if either of the two following happens.
      1. We can get a decent offer for Jamie Carroll.
      2. Alex Castilla does not come back next year (about 50/50) in my book.
      It is possible that a team would want both Span and Carroll, (read Dodgers), so this might be the front end for more trades.

      Even if neither of the above happen, we are minus 2 mil in salery and have 2 possible major league players for a pitcher who was not going to be here next year.
    1. drivlikejehu's Avatar
      drivlikejehu -
      Of course they got less than the value of a compensation pick. TRfail.
    1. raindog's Avatar
      raindog -
      Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
      What would you expect him to say? We traded an erratic pitcher that pitched maybe 5 good games in two years.
      He just had a stretch of 10 good games in a row.
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.