• Twins Trade Francisco Liriano To White Sox

    The Minnesota Twins traded Francisco Liriano to the White Sox tonight for infielder Eduardo Escobar and left-handed pitcher Pedro Hernandez. Liriano was scheduled to start Sunday's game versus the Cleveland Indians. Brian Duensing will take his turn in the rotation.

    Neither prospect the Twins received is highly, or even semi-highly, regarded. Escobar was not in Baseball America's list of the White Sox top 10 prospects prior to the season. He was #7 on Baseball Prospectus' list, but is listed as a 2-star (out of five) prospect.

    Escobar is just 23 years old and has spent this year in the majors with the White Sox. It's not clear why; it appears he have two option years left and it's hard to make a case that he's earned that promotion. Last year he hit .266 with a .303 OBP in AAA. In fact, his career OBP through all the levels of the minors is just .315 and he's struck out 100+ times in his last two years. Not too surprisingly, he's hitting .195 in the majors, albeit in just 92 plate appearances.

    Pedro Hernandez also did not not make Baseball America's top 10 and ranked 15th on the Baseball Prospectus list. He's pitched at three level this year: 12 starts in AA, two starts in AAA and a single major league start. But he's clearly been rushed through AAA with just six starts. He's 23 years old.

    He fits the stereotyped Twins pitcher - good control but not dominating stuff, or at least dominating as measure by strikeouts. His career minor league average is 7.4 K/9, which is below average. This year in AA he posted a 2.06 ERA - but also struck out just 37 batters in 68 IP. That's a lower rate than even Nick Blackburn had in AA.

    Hernandez has also never pitcher more than 116 inning in the minors or had more than 18 starts. He has been used as a reliever several time throughout the minors. However, he has shown outstanding control with a K to BB ratio approaching 5:1, although that has suffered as he has made his way up the minor league ladder.

    I've made the mistake several times of leaping to conclusions about lower level prospects that Terry Ryan has targeted who have turned out far better than I might have hoped. Jason Bartlett and Alexi Casilla both some to mind, and I'm sure there are more. But at first glance, it looks like Liriano was traded to a division rival for two C prospects that might fill needs but are long shots to have any long-lasting impact on the organization.
    Comments 189 Comments
    1. Ultima Ratio's Avatar
      Ultima Ratio -
      I'll bet Liriano was inoculated with a latent microbe by the Twins medical staff and shipped to the ChiSux in order to infect them in the coming years. Crapsylitocus, I believe it is called. Symptoms are diverse and not well documented but they are chronic and invasive.
    1. raindog's Avatar
      raindog -
      Quote Originally Posted by elephanthater View Post
      i agree, we got nothing out of this. I just do not get this dumping of players to division rivals for no talent in return (delmon last year to tigers, and now this).
      Big difference, Delmon Young sucks.
    1. Pius Jefferson's Avatar
      Pius Jefferson -
      Maybe it was false hope to think the Twins could have gotten a B/B+ prospect for Liriano.
    1. Bark's Lounge's Avatar
      Bark's Lounge -
      Say NO to "Chump Trading"!
    1. gunnarthor's Avatar
      gunnarthor -
      Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
      Just an observation.... MN seems to be more likely to trade for a player w/MLB experience than bring up their own How often have the Twins called up a player to make their debut @ 23 or younger (not including Sept callups).....not often Both players obtained today @ 23 made their MLB debuts this year Delmon, CGomez both made their debuts with another team @ 21...Lester Oliveras was 23 w/DET Of this roster....Mauer is one @ 21, Alex Burnett was 22, Liam Hendriks was 22 (Sept) , Perk was 23 (Sept..4gms) Alexi was 21 (Sept), Justin 22, Revere 22 (Sept), Benson/Parmellee (both 23 & Sept callups).
      In recent years, Morneau, Kubel, Santana, Garza, Baker, Slowey
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      Instead we got a hepatitis C prospect
    1. jorgenswest's Avatar
      jorgenswest -
      Should it have made a difference where they traded him? They are not competing for the division this year. Liriano could have been in Chicago next year regardless of where he was traded.

      As for value, a C pitcher and a C hitter are pretty equivalent to a sandwich pick. There are questions whether it would have been wise to offer Liriano the 12.5 million so the Twins might have received nothing.

      If Escobar is the real deal with the glove, he will be valuable while under team control. Guys that can pick it at SS are not that easy to find for league minimum. I guess it is a plus that Hernandez is left handed. Both are young.

      Six weeks ago Liriano had no value with absolutely no chance the Twins would make a qualifying offer. Getting two C prospects for a pitcher who has had so many poor outings since the last two seasons can't be seen as a bad trade. Does anyone think Ryan turned down better offers? Let's spend the 12.5 million elsewhere next year and we have what looks like two guys who will have major league careers. What do we lose? The remaining Liriano starts in 2012. Nothing else.
    1. Pius Jefferson's Avatar
      Pius Jefferson -
      Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
      Although this trade smells of the rotting private parts of a dead giraffe in the hot African sun... maybe there is a silver lining to this trade. I do not want to mention his given christian name, but the Latino Pitcher Whisperer should now be given his walking papers... oh ****... we still have Deduno. My bad.
      Mauer caught Deduno.
    1. drjim's Avatar
      drjim -
      Reminds me of the Castillo trade.

      One thing about the comp pick is that a team would have to beat the 12.4 mil for 1 year and forfeit their own first round pick. I don't see a team dojng that. Twins would have been stuck with Liriano. If this was the best the Twins can do that says a lot about the market.

      I also found it interesting that Ryan traded him the day before his last scheduled start. He wanted no part of Liriano making another start and erasing all trade value.
    1. Brandon's Avatar
      Brandon -
      This reminds me of the Luid Castillo trade. Then we got Butera and the OF that was a AAA OF. Looks like we just got the next generation Punto and a lefty who may be a reliever we'll see.

      I had hoped to hear a we got B or B+ prospect. But it could be worse.
    1. Bark's Lounge's Avatar
      Bark's Lounge -
      Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
      I'll bet Liriano was inoculated with a latent microbe by the Twins medical staff and shipped to the ChiSux in order to infect them in the coming years. Crapsylitocus, I believe it is called. Symptoms are diverse and not well documented but they are chronic and invasive.
      Biological Warfare? Damn baseball is pretty damn serious these days... I like it!
    1. drjim's Avatar
      drjim -
      Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
      The ONLY was I cancel think to justify this trade is if they thing or know that Liriano is hurt, possibly seriously hurt. IOtherwise, this is just foolish.
      Better the Twins got nothing? Or less?
    1. Ultima Ratio's Avatar
      Ultima Ratio -
      This just shows how much Liriano's last outing affected his value. I have to believe this is the case more than TR and the front officers are inept and couldn't get anything more. Of course, I reserve the right to be wrong about the front officers.
    1. Ultima Ratio's Avatar
      Ultima Ratio -
      Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
      Biological Warfare? Damn baseball is pretty damn serious these days... I like it!
      Since conventional baseball hasn't worked recently, I think they may try guerrilla baseball tactics.
    1. Brandon's Avatar
      Brandon -
      who is paying the remaining 2 million on Liriano's contract? I guess that could swing the pendulum of value some.
    1. Bark's Lounge's Avatar
      Bark's Lounge -
      Quote Originally Posted by Pius Jefferson View Post
      Mauer caught Deduno.
      I know, I know. But I am covering all of my bases, Tonight was a big disappointment. If Liriano can be traded for petrified pieces of cat ****, I feel we are deserved of a Drew Butera ousting... right?
    1. Ultima Ratio's Avatar
      Ultima Ratio -
      I'm sure that remaining and saved 2 million is now earmarked for SP FA in the offseason rather than just... well.... saved. [Sarcasm]
    1. 70charger's Avatar
      70charger -
      Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
      This just shows how much Liriano's last outing affected his value. I have to believe this is the case more than TR and the front officers are inept and couldn't get anything more. Of course, I reserve the right to be wrong about the front officers.
      I doubt that it was his last outing. I think it was more like his last 5 years. Those who thought Liriano was a #1 or #2 were just deluding themselves. He was/is absolutely not in the same league as some of the other trade bait this year like Greinke, Hamels, and probably even Dempster. (And no, I don't mean the AL.)
    1. Rivas#1Fan's Avatar
      Rivas#1Fan -
      Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
      Since conventional baseball hasn't worked recently, I think they may try guerrilla baseball tactics.
      Where's the next Henry Rowengartner when you need him?
    1. Jim Crikket's Avatar
      Jim Crikket -
      Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
      Reminds me of the Castillo trade.

      One thing about the comp pick is that a team would have to beat the 12.4 mil for 1 year and forfeit their own first round pick. I don't see a team dojng that. Twins would have been stuck with Liriano. If this was the best the Twins can do that says a lot about the market.

      I also found it interesting that Ryan traded him the day before his last scheduled start. He wanted no part of Liriano making another start and erasing all trade value.
      Finally... someone who gets it.

      After the big turd Liriano laid last week, NOBODY was going to give up anything worthwhile for him. The Twins couldn't afford to take the chance that he might take the $12.4 million qualifying offer (which he almost certainly WOULD, unless he happened to pitch lights-out the rest of the season).
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