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  • Could the Twins still trade Ben Revere?

    After a session with the team’s brass, Twins manager Ron Gardenhire emerged from their war room (war not WAR) at the Nashville hotel and, following the trade of Denard Span, told the MLB Network that they were “trading my whole damn team.”

    While it could be just a tongue-in-cheek response from the manager who is known to add some snark, because of the team’s current status of a bottom-dwelling squad without a rotation the Twins should really consider it.

    The front office has been extremely vocal about not trading Josh Willingham unless they were blown away with an offer and there has not been much discussion about moving Justin Morneau this winter. There is one unlikely Twins player who may have value at the winter meetings who the front office could consider moving and that is Ben Revere.

    If Revere is able to be packaged in a deal that could fetch a decent rotation arm the Twins should consider taking it. Both the Tampa Bay Rays and the Atlanta Braves are in need of a starting center fielder and Revere’s youth and cost control may be appealing enough to pry one of their surplus arms.

    Revere, 24, will enter his third season at the major league level. Last year, the speedy outfielder developed into a high-average hitter with well above-average defensive chops when it came to covering ground and making acrobatic catches.

    Meanwhile, on the bases, Revere swiped 40 bases -- succeeding in his kleptomania 82% of the time -- and, by Fangraphs.com’s accounting system, was the seventh-highest valued base-runner in the game. Baseball-Reference.com’s warehouse said that his legs added five runs to the Twins’ ledger in 2012 (tied for fourth highest in MLB) which equates to roughly a half a win.

    Given that he’s just beginning to adapt to the world’s best competition, the expectation is that he will continue to improve. After all, with his speed, he’s guaranteed to accumulate hits like Flo Rida. However, there are several areas in which he has been deficient and that is his ability to compile walks and hit for power.

    In addition outstanding speed and bat control - which Revere has displayed - premium leadoff hitters are adept at increasing pitch counts and coaxing walks. While he produced terrific numbers through his minor league career, Revere’s walk rate was below 7%, relying on batted balls to find seams in the defense to buoy his on-base percentage. Similarly, Revere’s power drought has been one nearing historic proportions and given how he puts the ball in play (mostly grounders), the odds are strong that he usurps Greg Gross for most plate appearances without a home run.

    These are two aspects of his game which are unlikely to change. Sure, his high average, high range and high speed talents may help cover up those shortcomings sufficiently but there is also indications that he is not in the Twins’ plan beyond 2013.

    If the Twins trade Revere, the duty of center field would like fall to Aaron Hicks - a five-tool prospect who has yet to see time above Double-A. While a level jump without touching Triple-A is less than ideal, Revere made the leap from New Britain in September 2010 and worked his way into the Twins lineup without sampling much time in Rochester. Hicks, 23, was drafted one year after Revere and will have the same amount of development time as Revere when he was forced into semi-regular duty in 2011.

    Like Revere, Hicks has buckets of speed on the bases and in the field. Unlike Revere, Hicks has a howitzer for an arm. Last year, he recorded 10 outfield assists with New Britain. Revere had 18 throughout his entire six-year minor league experience. With the massive real estate in right-center field, the field staff knows they need someone with a legit arm.

    Hicks also possess other tools at the plate that makes him a superior leadoff choice than Revere. A switch-hitter, Hicks has monk-like patience at the plate, registering a walk in almost 15% of his plate appearances. What’s more is that he has the occasional pop, able to gain multiple bases on a single swing of the bat.

    From a development process perspective, allowing Hicks an additional year to hone his craft at Rochester while keeping his arbitration clock from starting would be the most desired scenario. By all accounts, Revere is a hard-worker with three strong skills. Still, the Twins need starting pitching beyond just this season and Hicks can certainly learn on the job. If trading Revere would bring back a cost-controlled starter, the organization needs to seriously consider pulling the trigger.
    This article was originally published in blog: Could the Twins still trade Ben Revere? started by Parker Hageman
    Comments 51 Comments
    1. twinstalker's Avatar
      twinstalker -
      Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
      For a pitcher Ok... For an OF'er... That don't make much sense.
      Revere does some good things, but there are reason to deal him, too. While he's a great CF range, speed on the bases, and high BA,

      1. He doesn't walk
      2. (redacted) Hicks, Arcia, Buxton, with Willingham, Benson, maybe Roberts as bridge to Buxton.
      3. His arm sucks for center. He'll be sucking up most of the balls in the outfield, but he has no arm and teams will run wild.
      4. He has no power. Zero power, almost. Many of his hits are infield and don't move runners along more than one base.
      5. Someone mentioned getting a crappy Juan Pierre-type to replace him. Well, his GOAL is to be Juan Pierre, because that's his upside.
      6. Revere will (or should, anyway) be dealt when the kids arrive. At that time, he'll be overpriced in terms of salary. Right now he's a min salary player, which could mislead teams to give up something for him.
      7. He's easily replaceable in a losing season with a platoon. While the lefty hitting guy might not be quite as good, the rh guy should be close, and if it's remotely close, that's all you need to bridge to Hicks.

      Mastroianni could provide the right side of a platoon this year with a late, cheap FA getting ABs from the left side. There are plenty out there who could put up a .320 obp.

      Of course, what's the point if the Twins can't get anything in return? I really don't know what the Twins could get for him. It's somewhat possible that they could get a pitching prospect that''s in the 100-150 range, but those guys are incredible variable, or they'd be in the top 50. It would be giving up Revere to throw a dart at a board.

      Could the Twins trade him to the Braves? Well, I think he could play left for them (because of his arm) or center (because of range) with Upton moving to a corner. Will the Braves give up a Randall Delgado for him? Probably not. They'd probably offer Sean Gilmartin, and I suspect the Sean Gilmartins out there are Revere's value.

      Revere is valuable enough to not give away for something you could just as well get in FA, but if they can get any pitcher with upside who could pitch in 2013 or 2014, they should probably pull the trigger. Revere helps the rebuild only slightly and as a bridge.
    1. Don't Feed the Greed Guy's Avatar
      Don't Feed the Greed Guy -
      Parker's lead on this article was Gardenhire's reaction to the Span trade: "They're trading my whole damn team." Wouldn't a Revere trade be the 'coup de grace' (death blow) to 2013 and a manager who doesn't have a contract extension?

      Is Terry Ryan throwing Gardy under the proverbial bus? The ONLY way that this could be good for Gardy is if a Revere trade could bring the Twins a top-of-the-rotation starter, not just a Class A phenom. Is "Bingo-Bango-Beno" with his light bat, really worth a top tier starter?

      My hunch? If Revere goes, it's curtains for Gardy. He "Sleeps With the Fishes" and Ryan stands alone.
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
      I was truly looking forward to seeing Revere play CF all year. I love his hustle and his range. But if the price is right, maybe it makes sense to go with Hicks.

      What if Hicks bombs? Who would take over CF then? Benson?
      Arcia could probably step in for awhile, though it'd be a little ugly. Oswaldo played CF through either Low A or High A.
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by Don't Feed the Greed Guy View Post
      Parker's lead on this article was Gardenhire's reaction to the Span trade: "They're trading my whole damn team." Wouldn't a Revere trade be the 'coup de grace' (death blow) to 2013 and a manager who doesn't have a contract extension?

      Is Terry Ryan throwing Gardy under the proverbial bus? The ONLY way that this could be good for Gardy is if a Revere trade could bring the Twins a top-of-the-rotation starter, not just a Class A phenom. Is "Bingo-Bango-Beno" with his light bat, really worth a top tier starter?

      My hunch? If Revere goes, it's curtains for Gardy. He "Sleeps With the Fishes" and Ryan stands alone.
      Oddly enough, I think Gardy's job becomes safer if Ryan liquidates the team. Expectations will fall through the floor at that point.
    1. sorney's Avatar
      sorney -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Don't Feed the Greed Guy View Post
      Parker's lead on this article was Gardenhire's reaction to the Span trade: "They're trading my whole damn team." Wouldn't a Revere trade be the 'coup de grace' (death blow) to 2013 and a manager who doesn't have a contract extension?

      Is Terry Ryan throwing Gardy under the proverbial bus? The ONLY way that this could be good for Gardy is if a Revere trade could bring the Twins a top-of-the-rotation starter, not just a Class A phenom. Is "Bingo-Bango-Beno" with his light bat, really worth a top tier starter?

      My hunch? If Revere goes, it's curtains for Gardy. He "Sleeps With the Fishes" and Ryan stands alone.
      Oddly enough, I think Gardy's job becomes safer if Ryan liquidates the team. Expectations will fall through the floor at that point.
      Absolutely agree. Kinda gives Gardy a chance to work with his new staff and see how they coexist
    1. jwb1226's Avatar
      jwb1226 -
      Why not try and trade him for a young ml ready middle infield prospect?
    1. Riverbrian's Avatar
      Riverbrian -
      Quote Originally Posted by twinstalker View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
      For a pitcher Ok... For an OF'er... That don't make much sense.
      3. His arm sucks for center. He'll be sucking up most of the balls in the outfield, but he has no arm and teams will run wild.
      .
      Do you see what you did Puck!!! This runners running wild thing is running wild. lol.

      Talker.. I'm ok with a deal of Revere if it brings back pitching.

      If the rumors are true... I don't think Terry Ryan was knocking on the door asking... Someone or someone's must be reaching out to TR here but who knows.

      Mastro can play this year... I like Mastro and would love to see what he did with an everyday gig. A decent outfielder can be picked up cheap until June or July when Hicks or whoever clears the arb thing.

      If the trade brings back an OF'er... The reason for that would allude me.
    1. Twins Twerp's Avatar
      Twins Twerp -
      Three Revere trade threads=awesomeness
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
      Do you see what you did Puck!!! This runners running wild thing is running wild. lol.

      Talker.. I'm ok with a deal of Revere if it brings back pitching.

      If the rumors are true... I don't think Terry Ryan was knocking on the door asking... Someone or someone's must be reaching out to TR here but who knows.

      Mastro can play this year... I like Mastro and would love to see what he did with an everyday gig. A decent outfielder can be picked up cheap until June or July when Hicks or whoever clears the arb thing.

      If the trade brings back an OF'er... The reason for that would allude me.
      I think the chance of getting an outfielder in return is nearly zero. Pitching is the obvious thing to pursue, followed by MI help.
    1. mike wants wins's Avatar
      mike wants wins -
      Only three?
    1. Jim Crikket's Avatar
      Jim Crikket -
      I suspect the "may need to get a CF in return" thing was pure speculation on Morosi's part. It wouldn't make any sense at all to take a lesser SP because the trade partner had to give up a CF, too. You get the best SP you can, period. But if CFs are in high demand right now and you think Revere is pretty much a 1-2 year bridge to Hicks or someone else coming up through the organization, you don't hesitate to make the deal now.
    1. Riverbrian's Avatar
      Riverbrian -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
      Do you see what you did Puck!!! This runners running wild thing is running wild. lol.

      Talker.. I'm ok with a deal of Revere if it brings back pitching.

      If the rumors are true... I don't think Terry Ryan was knocking on the door asking... Someone or someone's must be reaching out to TR here but who knows.

      Mastro can play this year... I like Mastro and would love to see what he did with an everyday gig. A decent outfielder can be picked up cheap until June or July when Hicks or whoever clears the arb thing.

      If the trade brings back an OF'er... The reason for that would allude me.
      I think the chance of getting an outfielder in return is nearly zero. Pitching is the obvious thing to pursue, followed by MI help.
      Morosi is the source of this rumor. I'm kinda wondering about Morosi right now. His finish of the tweet saying the "Twins might be looking for a CF in return" is strange speculation.

      I imagine if a team wants Ben... That means they don't have a CF to trade unless its a young one. We got plenty of young ones.

      If a trade does happen... One thing is for sure... You and I will have a gauge on Bens true value at this moment.
    1. Oxtung's Avatar
      Oxtung -
      Another interesting byproduct of trading Revere is how it would affect potential Morneau or Willingham trades at the deadline or next year. The assumption, to me, has always been that Morneau would likely be traded at the deadline this year as his salary becomes less of an issue. Then Parmelee would move to 1st and Hicks/Arcia/Benson would then step into the OF. If you move Revere before the season and still want to move Morneau/Willingham you now need a second of the Hicks/Arcia/Benson trio to be ready and to compete successfully. Getting 1 successful season out of the trio probably is doable. Getting 2 successful seasons becomes less likely. If Revere is moved I'd say we should expect to see Mastro and a AAAA player (did Bigley get resigned?) getting plenty of PT. I guess a washed up vet for a year is likely as well.

      A second fallout from moving Revere is how uncertain our lineup becomes. 3B, SS, 2B, RF, CF would all be basically unknowns heading into the season. If you then want to trade Willingham or Morneau you are adding another uncertainty to the field. It is possible that by the second half of the season we'll see a team where the only stable and veteran players are Mauer and Doumit.
    1. Steve Penz's Avatar
      Steve Penz -
      "If the rumors are true... I don't think Terry Ryan was knocking on the door asking... Someone or someone's must be reaching out to TR here but who knows. "


      I agree with this idea. And, he should listen. Revere is fun and exciting and still not a long-term solution. If the right deal is on the table then it needs to be considered. Its not about wanting to trade anybody, its what can the twins get.
    1. jay's Avatar
      jay -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jim Crikket View Post
      I suspect the "may need to get a CF in return" thing was pure speculation on Morosi's part. It wouldn't make any sense at all to take a lesser SP because the trade partner had to give up a CF, too. You get the best SP you can, period. But if CFs are in high demand right now and you think Revere is pretty much a 1-2 year bridge to Hicks or someone else coming up through the organization, you don't hesitate to make the deal now.
      Here's a crazy idea to throw out... we know the Twins have room to take on some salary for '13 and even '14. What if Revere went to a team that also wants to shed a contract and that got us back a better prospect?

      Angels are the first to mind with Vernon Wells. They'd have a nice outfield of Trout and Trumbo with Bourjos (R) and Revere (L) and the salary savings would let them get another SP. We could easily ask for a pair of nice prospects in return.

      Crazy?
    1. Shane Wahl's Avatar
      Shane Wahl -
      Quote Originally Posted by tjsyam921 View Post
      Is a Revere for Hellickson trade possible?
      Haha. No.
    1. Jim Crikket's Avatar
      Jim Crikket -
      Quote Originally Posted by jay View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Jim Crikket View Post
      I suspect the "may need to get a CF in return" thing was pure speculation on Morosi's part. It wouldn't make any sense at all to take a lesser SP because the trade partner had to give up a CF, too. You get the best SP you can, period. But if CFs are in high demand right now and you think Revere is pretty much a 1-2 year bridge to Hicks or someone else coming up through the organization, you don't hesitate to make the deal now.
      Here's a crazy idea to throw out... we know the Twins have room to take on some salary for '13 and even '14. What if Revere went to a team that also wants to shed a contract and that got us back a better prospect?

      Angels are the first to mind with Vernon Wells. They'd have a nice outfield of Trout and Trumbo with Bourjos (R) and Revere (L) and the salary savings would let them get another SP. We could easily ask for a pair of nice prospects in return.

      Crazy?
      Probably crazy, yeah. But it's not like this FO hasn't done crazy stuff before. It does seem a little "out there" for someone as conservative as Terry Ryan. I'm also not sure there's all that much room to take on salary in '13 unless Ryan really doesn't do anything except dumpster dive for pitching. By 2014 and certainly 2015, there would be a lot more room for this kind of move. By then, it may make more sense, too, if there's a particular position they feel they need to fill from outside the organization to augment all of the young kids coming up.

      Keep thinking outside the box, though. Someone around here should do it and it's not likely to be the Twins FO.
    1. Shane Wahl's Avatar
      Shane Wahl -
      Trading Revere right now is silly because he hasn't performed well enough to garner much of a return. Next offseason is the best bet.

      I would love to see Revere-Hicks-Benson in the OF a few times in September.
    1. Shane Wahl's Avatar
      Shane Wahl -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jim Crikket View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by jay View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Jim Crikket View Post
      I suspect the "may need to get a CF in return" thing was pure speculation on Morosi's part. It wouldn't make any sense at all to take a lesser SP because the trade partner had to give up a CF, too. You get the best SP you can, period. But if CFs are in high demand right now and you think Revere is pretty much a 1-2 year bridge to Hicks or someone else coming up through the organization, you don't hesitate to make the deal now.
      Here's a crazy idea to throw out... we know the Twins have room to take on some salary for '13 and even '14. What if Revere went to a team that also wants to shed a contract and that got us back a better prospect?

      Angels are the first to mind with Vernon Wells. They'd have a nice outfield of Trout and Trumbo with Bourjos (R) and Revere (L) and the salary savings would let them get another SP. We could easily ask for a pair of nice prospects in return.

      Crazy?
      Probably crazy, yeah. But it's not like this FO hasn't done crazy stuff before. It does seem a little "out there" for someone as conservative as Terry Ryan. I'm also not sure there's all that much room to take on salary in '13 unless Ryan really doesn't do anything except dumpster dive for pitching. By 2014 and certainly 2015, there would be a lot more room for this kind of move. By then, it may make more sense, too, if there's a particular position they feel they need to fill from outside the organization to augment all of the young kids coming up.

      Keep thinking outside the box, though. Someone around here should do it and it's not likely to be the Twins FO.
      Yeah, I like that kind of wheeling and dealing and wish that people would consider spending to get prospects much more often.
    1. jay's Avatar
      jay -
      Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
      Yeah, I like that kind of wheeling and dealing and wish that people would consider spending to get prospects much more often.
      Likewise. I think some team will figure it out... especially as the spending caps on Int'l players and the draft start to limit options for teams to build. The luxury tax is a long ways away for most teams and MLB payroll is about the only thing left that isn't capped.
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