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  1. Sconnie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs
    1.) They're not missing anything in Presley,Mastroianni or Raley.
    2.) The Twins have done a great job of adding minor league free agents in recent years. The fact that three of them this year were former Twins doesn't change that.
    3.) Deduno, Burton, Fien have been pretty important pitchers for the Twins, and the Twins have had contributions from many minor league signings going back many years, including '87 and '91.
    4.) Sometimes minor league signings are brought in so as not to rush top prospects and put them in situations that they can stunt their growth.
    5.) Kubel was a given to make the roster, and he's shown that to be a good decision to this point in the season. He's a proven hitter who was hurt last year. He was brought in to DH, but he's been much more.
    6.) I liked the Bartlett signing. He had missed a year and a half, so I thought it would be a great situation to sign him, bring him to camp, and then get him to Rochester to play all over the diamond and see if he could shake off the rust and potentially become a utility type. Or, with Pedro Florimon as the incumbent, maybe he would have a chance to start at SS at some point during the season if needed. I think having him on the opening day roster was a mistake, but that doesn't make the minor league signing a bad thing.
    7.) As for Guerrier, he's been a solid MLB guy for a decade. No harm in signing him. I guess they could keep Logan Darnell at the back of the bullpen, pitching irregularly, but I would think they (and we) would want him preparing as a starting pitcher for now.
    8.) Hey, that Chris Colabello guy turned out to be a pretty strong minor league signing.

    To summarize, putting together an MLB roster can be done in many ways... Sure would be nice if they were all 1st round picks who turned out, right?
    how do 1 and 4 jive? Raley I get, I see him as more of an upside guy for the future, but he won't help the big league club this year, maybe he would've helped in 2015. Man Hicks needs some AAA time, and have another AAAA stop gap such as Mastroianni or Pressly to Platoon with Fuld and to spell Kubel would allow Hicks to get his head straight and his fielding and swing together, and the roster crunch wouldn't hurt so bad. This would also leave a CF with options at AAA for when the unforeseen happens.

    Of course, Hicks in AAA would also be debated...
  2. SgtSchmidt11's Avatar
    The signings are STILL not bad ideas, it's the use of 40 man and 25 man roster space that is the issue.
  3. Paul Pleiss's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs
    Sure would be nice if they were all 1st round picks who turned out, right?
    Yes, yes it would. I know the draft is a bit of a lottery, and that not everyone works out, but it feels like the Twins either missed badly or allowed their first round picks to leave the organization.

    But I think there is also something more on the topic of letting "stars" get out of the organization, because the team was unwilling to pony up for a large contract, or trading them away to "try to get something." There seems to me to be a large number of former Twins being very successful for other teams in MLB. Have the Twins just given up on some players too soon? Should the Twins should have paid guys to keep them? Clearly letting Johan go worked out in the long run for the Twins as the Mets have largely paid him to rehab from injury. There does though, seem to be a lot of successful former Twins out there, especially starters who found success after leaving MN (and no, this is not my attempt to get a rant going on Rick Anderson, which is someething else I enjoy).

    Also, Torii Hunter, I miss that guy.
  4. jorgenswest's Avatar
    Signing decline phase players in hope that they will return to former success keeps the Twins from seeking other options.

    All of the successful signings listed above were younger than the trio signed this winter. They all came with multiple years of team control. They didn't come with opt out dates that forced the Twins hand with roster decisions.

    Those signings can not be compared to the signings of the former Twins trio in terms of risk or upside.
  5. Seth Stohs's Avatar
    1.) They're not missing anything in Presley,Mastroianni or Raley.
    2.) The Twins have done a great job of adding minor league free agents in recent years. The fact that three of them this year were former Twins doesn't change that.
    3.) Deduno, Burton, Fien have been pretty important pitchers for the Twins, and the Twins have had contributions from many minor league signings going back many years, including '87 and '91.
    4.) Sometimes minor league signings are brought in so as not to rush top prospects and put them in situations that they can stunt their growth.
    5.) Kubel was a given to make the roster, and he's shown that to be a good decision to this point in the season. He's a proven hitter who was hurt last year. He was brought in to DH, but he's been much more.
    6.) I liked the Bartlett signing. He had missed a year and a half, so I thought it would be a great situation to sign him, bring him to camp, and then get him to Rochester to play all over the diamond and see if he could shake off the rust and potentially become a utility type. Or, with Pedro Florimon as the incumbent, maybe he would have a chance to start at SS at some point during the season if needed. I think having him on the opening day roster was a mistake, but that doesn't make the minor league signing a bad thing.
    7.) As for Guerrier, he's been a solid MLB guy for a decade. No harm in signing him. I guess they could keep Logan Darnell at the back of the bullpen, pitching irregularly, but I would think they (and we) would want him preparing as a starting pitcher for now.
    8.) Hey, that Chris Colabello guy turned out to be a pretty strong minor league signing.

    To summarize, putting together an MLB roster can be done in many ways... Sure would be nice if they were all 1st round picks who turned out, right?
  6. Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
    Thanks jorgenswest for putting this together.

    Like Sconnie said, a case might be made for any one of those guys in isolation. Now step back and consider that all three of them together were essentially promised a spot on the team, regardless of their spring training performance (or, non performance) or regardless of what if anything they had to contribute.
  7. Sconnie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by goulik
    None of the losses were part of a future and our present day is an experiment to find the future. We can find more guys like them in the future. I am not concerned that Alex Pressly, Darin Masroianni and Brooks Raley are gone. If I told my wife and friends their responses would be all the same. Who are they? Exactly!
    I have been back and forth on Bartlett [Et Al] throughout the offseason, and I might be one of the quotes. Signing one of Bartlett, Kubel, Guerrier, in isolation isn't the end of the world, but when it's 3 and you owe all three of them roster spots, that's a lot of risk.

    Pressly and Mastro are both sorely missed, and Raley was certainly more a part of the future than Guerrier. This team is doubly worse because of Bartlett and Guerrier's presence and the players lost associated as such.

    if Pressly and Mastro are so easily replaceable, why is Hicks futilely hacking away and losing fly balls with the big league club?
  8. goulik's Avatar
    None of the losses were part of a future and our present day is an experiment to find the future. We can find more guys like them in the future. I am not concerned that Alex Pressly, Darin Masroianni and Brooks Raley are gone. If I told my wife and friends their responses would be all the same. Who are they? Exactly!
  9. Sconnie's Avatar
    Good stuff jorgenwest. I'm very excited for Meyer and May
  10. Sconnie's Avatar
    I agree that Bartlett and Kubel preclude the front office from acquiring young talent for a rebuild, and this is indeed far too old of a team to be considered a youthful rebuild.

    What does AA and AAA look like for major league caliber and ready prospects for each team? I'm not certain, but maybe Chicago had to acquire young players because they had none in their system ready and adequate for the bigs.

    i think this will be a telling season for the Twins front office. By mid season you could see the full rebuild on.
  11. bear333's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell
    Agree, agree, agree! Unless the Twins somehow catch lightning in a bottle and everybody has a peak year and they contend, they must turn over the roster to younger, higher ceilinged players. Every player over thirty not born in Minnesota really should be on the block. I was thinking that success this year would be measured by the progress of the young players and when I mentally went through them, I realized how many over-30s were on the team. I still stand by that definition of success: It will be a good year if Arcia, Gibson, Pinto, and Hicks establish themselves and I'll add Plouffe to that list.

    The Twins will open with only one player born in the '90s (Osvaldo Arcia) and two born in the '70s (Bartlett & Willingham)
    The Twins brain trust have discovered a new way to frustrate the fans and assure another loosing season: They have created the unique situation of having six, that is right, six legitimate starting pitchers who will receive no run support this year. Thanks for creating a whole new reason not to come out to watch a game.
  12. bear333's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell
    Agree, agree, agree! Unless the Twins somehow catch lightning in a bottle and everybody has a peak year and they contend, they must turn over the roster to younger, higher ceilinged players. Every player over thirty not born in Minnesota really should be on the block. I was thinking that success this year would be measured by the progress of the young players and when I mentally went through them, I realized how many over-30s were on the team. I still stand by that definition of success: It will be a good year if Arcia, Gibson, Pinto, and Hicks establish themselves and I'll add Plouffe to that list.

    The Twins will open with only one player born in the '90s (Osvaldo Arcia) and two born in the '70s (Bartlett & Willingham)
    I have been pulling my hair out all spring about this. Their only hope was to go young, and they have the players to do it. I think this is about Gardenhire not wanting to deal with young players. Which is why he should have been replaced last year. Gardenhire, Willingham, Kubel and Bartlett should excuse themselves from the Twins and join a seniors softball team.
  13. ND-Fan's Avatar
    I think they are heading for rebuilding the Twins pitching staff looks like it structured to be pitching staff for the future as you look the players they signed will come off when there young pitching prospects are projected to be ready and will have one veteran pitcher available to lead these young kids in the future on contract. Offense is on old side but were seeing beginning of change over already with Hicks, Arcia, Pinto and I would include Dozier. Look by year end we could see likes Buxton doing September call up and for sure we would have seen Sano being called up. My guess next year we could see lineup of the following Buxton center, Arcia in left field, and Hicks in Right Field. Pinto Catching, Florimin at SS and Santanna pushing him, Dozier at second, Mauer at First, Sano at third, and Plouffe if he has good year as backup 3 baseman and outfielder. Pitching could be Myer, Gibson, Nolasco, Hughes, Pelfry and number of young pitchers pushing to make the team. I think this what Twins are looking at them selves you would have Sano and Buxton at 21 and 22; Arcia (24) and Hicks and Pinto (26); Flormin, Dozier, Plouffe, Gibson, and Hughes at 27-28, and leaving Nolasco, Mauer, Pelfry and Perkins as 30 years olds on the team. Not a very old team and number players just coming into their prime playing years 27 to 30. Some older pitchers but with Gibson and Myers in their middle 20's very nice balance of young to old pitcher. Also with number of future prospects being able to fill in for some of older players if injuries would occur. The big question will be if these players can produce offense at major league level. I think all of them are good enough defensively to play at major league level. The whole problem with this scenario we have go threw this season which could be long season if some these players don't start producing better than they have shown this spring. They have given Twins nothing that they can sell to the fans why they should be excited about this team. Pitching will be better but not near good enough to win if this team doesn't start producing some offense.
  14. beckmt's Avatar
    Problem with going younger is that the younger Twins players have just hit AA. Most of the Twins AAA farm club is that the players have already have had their chances and failed. Wait until next year hopefully.
  15. AScheib50's Avatar
    I would love the idea of them going younger and not clinging to some of these older guys, but the problem is the young guys aren't ready yet or they are hurt(ie: Sano). It's starting to become painfully clear this year is not the youth movement year...maybe next year, or if we are lucky things change this summer and they go young.

    If you look at our division rivals, the White Sox, they did the youth movement thing this offseason...not sure what the Twins were waiting for...we will see how things turn out I guess.
  16. Willihammer's Avatar
    I loved the 1999-2000 teams too. But you didn't need to be a genius to see that Hunter, Cuddyer, Pierzynski, Radke, Koskie, Mientkewicz, and Jones had real talent.

    Escobar, Parmelee, Hendriks, Robertson, Worley, Herrmann... I just don't get the same feeling from most of the young guys we have seen recently.
  17. Oldgoat_MN's Avatar
    Nice write-up, Jorgenswest.

    Very few teams make significant improvements without getting younger. In the past couple of decades only the Yankees have had the money to have a team of aging players who are good enough to be in a HOF conversation.

    The other teams get better by getting new blood in the lineup.

    p.s. Earl Battey was a favorite of mine, too
  18. stringer bell's Avatar
    Agree, agree, agree! Unless the Twins somehow catch lightning in a bottle and everybody has a peak year and they contend, they must turn over the roster to younger, higher ceilinged players. Every player over thirty not born in Minnesota really should be on the block. I was thinking that success this year would be measured by the progress of the young players and when I mentally went through them, I realized how many over-30s were on the team. I still stand by that definition of success: It will be a good year if Arcia, Gibson, Pinto, and Hicks establish themselves and I'll add Plouffe to that list.

    The Twins will open with only one player born in the '90s (Osvaldo Arcia) and two born in the '70s (Bartlett & Willingham)
    Updated 03-28-2014 at 06:04 AM by stringer bell
  19. ashburyjohn's Avatar
    We just need better analytics, to give us the "home runs per dead fish slider" ratio in Spring.
  20. jorgenswest's Avatar
    Home run rate stabilizes at 170 regular season plate appearances. A home run off of Wainwright or 5 off of AAAA are equally meaningless in determining a roster spot.
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