Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum

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  1. Brad Swanson's Avatar
    I'm absolutely with OldManWinter here. In 2011, the snarky "iron man" remark would have been more justifiable. I would have still disagreed, but I could have seen that side of an argument. This year, the comment is unfounded and somewhat unfair.

    Last year, he had a bad knee. I had a bad knee a few months ago and I could barely use the stairs. I can't imagine trying to catch.
  2. OldManWinter's Avatar
    Probably a case can be made that every pro athlete, in any sport, is overpaid if balanced against long-term contributions to society.

    But, it is supply and demand. He happens to be uniquely talented at an important and demanding position. So he commands that income because he was producing big time at contract time ... and the Twins were winning.

    How many complainers would care to squat down 3-4 hours a day, 120 days per year? Or, take foul tips off the mask, the groin, foot, etc, or the collisions at home plate on a regular basis?

    Those abuses take a major toll on a body. I wager that Joe will have plenty of aches and pains in his golden years.

    I do not think he is a malingerer like I felt about Gaborik or Demitra.
  3. clutterheart's Avatar
    Leaving out 2011 leaves you open to the charge of cherry picking, as that is when the sentiment changed due to the mysterious injuries, unsourced quotes, and an unprofessional training staff.

    He had a weird attitude that year and his agent / PR team / GM / Coach did him no favors.
    Black Marks are hard to erase, he needs playoff success to win the fans the back.

    Hope the new GM backs him up with pitchers so he has the chance.
  4. OldManWinter's Avatar
    Streaking?
  5. Brad Swanson's Avatar
    Yeah, I am not sure about that. I Googled it, but gave up quickly. Gaetti popped back into my head when Ron Santo was elected to the HOF. Gaetti is clearly not the player Santo was, but their careers compare more favorably than I thought they did.
  6. Bark's Lounge's Avatar
    I wouldn't be surprised if the G-Man is top 10 in HR's among Third basemen In MLB history.
  7. Brad Swanson's Avatar
    I was shocked at how good his '95 and even '96 seasons were. Also, if you Google him, his Google Image is quite awesome.
  8. John Bonnes's Avatar
    He was also 27, turning 28, in 1986. He got MVP votes in 1986, 1987 and 1988.

    Interestingly, he highest OPS was in 1988 - which was the same year that Tommy Herr showed up and converted Gaetti away from his rough and tumble lifestyle.

    He also had something of a resurgence in the mid 90s that I had forgotten. He even got another MVP vote in 1995. Huh.
  9. Brad Swanson's Avatar
    He is a prospect that I am really excited about as well. I really like the reports that he works hard, because hopefully he will keep working and developing. Versatility is an underrated element of baseball, and he seems like a player that could have some ability at three up the middle positions if things work out.
  10. clutterheart's Avatar
    Goodrum is one of my favorite prospects to watch.
    I was hoping he would come back in his 2nd year at low A ball and knock the ball around.
    But he didn't so he will suffer.
    As a 2nd rounder fans should heap some expectations on him hopefully he deliveries
  11. Seth Stohs's Avatar
    This is where the things like scouting and athleticism and such really come in to play, especially at those low minor league levels. Statistically, he's been one of the more disappointing players in the system this year, but there is no reason whatsoever to give up on him, yet. (Note, in other words, he likely won't be ranked as high by me with my 2013 rankings)
  12. John Bonnes's Avatar
    :-) Nice job. For future reference, feel free to add a link back to your blog at the top of the story telling where this was originally published.
  13. Brad Swanson's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim H
    If you are building for 2014, you are likely leaving some names out of the discussion. Certainly Hicks should be in the conversation, perhaps 3-4 others currently at AA and perhaps some guys at Single-A like Michael. I also agree with some of what you say, though I don't know that I consider contending in 2013 and building for the future, mutually exclusively. It is likely quite possible to do both. The problem with trading or getting rid of everyone who is unlikely to contribute in 2014 or beyond is you may very well force kids on to the major league roster who don't belong there. I saw too much of that in the 90's. There was little in that, that would make me think that unready players develop faster by being overmatched at the major league level.

    The other problem with trading all your tradeable players who aren't a definite part of the future, is that most of them aren't really all that tradeable. Look at the Boston deal, unless the players to be named are special, Boston didn't get much and gave up $11 million besides.
    I was just focusing on players currently on the 40-man roster. There are a few guys in the minor leagues who can contribute long term, but I am hesitant to include potential rookies or second year players as impact players in 2014.

    I agree with you that rebuilding and contending do not have to be mutually exclusive, however, I think the Twins are just too far from contending to make it work. They have very little good starting pitching in the system. Even if they sign a couple free agents, I am not sure that will be enough to make the team a playoff quality team next year, and it could hinder payroll flexibility going forward. As a fan, I would love to see the team sign some free agent pitching, but looking at the names available, I can't get too excited.

    The unfortunate reality is that teams cannot sign young pitching. They either have to draft it, or trade for it. The Twins seem to be trying to draft it, but those guys are years and years away. I actually like the two pitchers that Boston got from LA. If nothing else, they have upside.
  14. SpantheMan's Avatar
    With Plouffe and Parm we would have and entire starting infield(dozier, Florimon) , and one outfielder (revere) for league minimum. We would also have maestro at league min. Our other position players are all cheap-span, carrol, doumit, butera, besides Mauer, mourny and Willingham. I think that leaves us a lot of payroll to sign pitching or to eat salary in trades to get better pitching. Most of the core players in the pen are also just emerging so they are also cheap.
  15. Jim H's Avatar
    If you are building for 2014, you are likely leaving some names out of the discussion. Certainly Hicks should be in the conversation, perhaps 3-4 others currently at AA and perhaps some guys at Single-A like Michael. I also agree with some of what you say, though I don't know that I consider contending in 2013 and building for the future, mutually exclusively. It is likely quite possible to do both. The problem with trading or getting rid of everyone who is unlikely to contribute in 2014 or beyond is you may very well force kids on to the major league roster who don't belong there. I saw too much of that in the 90's. There was little in that, that would make me think that unready players develop faster by being overmatched at the major league level.

    The other problem with trading all your tradeable players who aren't a definite part of the future, is that most of them aren't really all that tradeable. Look at the Boston deal, unless the players to be named are special, Boston didn't get much and gave up $11 million besides.
  16. Brad Swanson's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs
    Do ya'll remember that Joe Mauer made his big league debut at age 20? I mean, seriously, your negativity is ridiculous and unfounded. If Trout would have put up the numbers he did in the Twins system, he would be up by now too.

    Back to the discussion in the blog, though... it's a great question. If the Twins would have passed on Gibson to draft Trout, many Twins fans would have called them cheap. Having used 1st round picks in 2008 (Hicks), 2007 (Revere) and 2006 (Parmelee, and Benson in second round), Twins fans would have hated the Trout pick. Which, of course, should not factor into the Twins decision.
    I didn't even think of fan reaction, but I completely agree. I remember those that I talked with about Gibson were really fired up because the thought was that he would be on the MLB team within a couple years. This probably would have been true had he not injured his elbow. In addition, coming off the Santana trade and a 2009 season that had some pretty bad starting pitching, Trout would have been a controversial pick for the fans.
  17. Seth Stohs's Avatar
    Do ya'll remember that Joe Mauer made his big league debut at age 20? I mean, seriously, your negativity is ridiculous and unfounded. If Trout would have put up the numbers he did in the Twins system, he would be up by now too.

    Back to the discussion in the blog, though... it's a great question. If the Twins would have passed on Gibson to draft Trout, many Twins fans would have called them cheap. Having used 1st round picks in 2008 (Hicks), 2007 (Revere) and 2006 (Parmelee, and Benson in second round), Twins fans would have hated the Trout pick. Which, of course, should not factor into the Twins decision.
  18. beckmt's Avatar
    I agree with most of this. We still need a middle infielder and 2 Starting Pitchers. I would rather package Parmalee with Span to get back some pitching. Twins power arms are 3 - 5 years down the road and hitting with a couple of changes should be fixable to contend.
  19. Brad Swanson's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosterman
    If Benson could truly be a 20/20 man and hit .250/.260, he would be an okay rightfielder...sorta speedier Cuddyer. Strikeouts do hurt. You like to see more walks if a guy does K alot. A ball in play, be it a grounder or a fly, has the potential to advance a runner. The Twins have a logjam in center, which makes Span expendable right now. We don't need two Spans and Revere is on a quest to turn each single (and walk) into a stolen base double for the next couple of years, or until we have the Hicks or Buxton play somewhere problem. Mastro is the perfect 4th outfielder right now. He can sill in for guys on the 15-day disabled list. We need Herrmann as the third multi-position catcher, since everyone Butera caught has been traded away. Sadly, the Twins are a team of middle infielders, too many with the same skill set, the only difference is salary. I'n not a longterm Casilla fan, but $2 million for Alexi isn't much different than $2.5+ million for the aging Carroll at this point. My concern for Parmelee is that he can't hit .250 in the majors, even if he hits 15-20 homers. Can we afford to have three players with the same stat set (make Willingham a slighter better 4th) that hit .240-.260 with 15-25 homes at 1st/3rd/RF/LF...the possibility of doing less than that and the rare occurence of doing better? Put Dozier into the mix as a shortstop with more than zero-power, and we have a very average offense headed by the bats of Mauer, Doumit and Revere getting on base at 1-3 clip compared to 1-4/5 of everyone else.
    I agree with a lot of your points. I think in a perfect world, you want either Plouffe or Parmelee at a corner, but not both. In a perfect world, you want a masher at the other corner. I would say that using these two as starters frees up a lot of money though. If these guys can get on base at a league average rate, with 20 HR power, they can have value. I'm not sold that either has consistent 20 HR power though.

    The nice thing about the middle infielders is that Escobar, Florimon and Dozier are all super cheap. I'd rather have those guys over Casilla and Carroll, just for the extra money. My perfect roster has 2 of those guys, not 5. Unfortunately, the Twins are back on a budget and every million matters. If the team isn't going to be good anyway, having cheap players can help build long term.
  20. Brad Swanson's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by J-Dog Dungan
    I think Revere has earned a little more than a bench role; his arm is improving, I think he even threw out a guy trying to take a base on him this year; yes, he will likely never have much if any power but he gets on base like a machine. I think it is more likely that Span is traded than the Twins keep him for a long period of time. I think from what I've heard Arcia's ceiling is higher than Kubel, especially in the defensive department. I agree with you that Mastro is a prototypical 4th outfielder, but what options do the Twins currently have for RF outside of keeping their outfield lineup together? Carson appears to have the arm of Ichiro, hits all right, and is probably another 4th outfielder. I think Benson is going to have to show some monster improvement to get to the Bigs with the troubles he has been having the last few years. Wait a minute, there was a catcher that was a non-human? Who was he, and how can I get a baseball card of that guy?
    I completely agree that Revere has earned more than a bench role. Based on what he has done this year, he should start for this team going forward. I just worry that his on-base skills are highly dependent on his batting average. I think he has more value as a 4th outfielder than a starting outfielder long term and with an improved team.

    I guess that projecting toward 2014, I hope there are three better options than Revere and Mastroianni and about 500 better options that Matt Carson. Benson has a ton to prove, I totally agree, but I hope he gets the chance to do so.

    If Arcia is as good as Kubel was in 2009, I will be very happy with that.
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