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Inside the Twins’ meeting rooms this winter, plenty of discussion will be focused on starting pitching. However, third base should be a s...
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Front Page: Dealing with Wheeler Gets Minnesota an Ace

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This offseason the Minnesota Twins chief focus is going to be on acquiring impact pitching. The front office has suggested as much, and w...
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Plan to reduce minor league teams

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https://www.nytimes....ue-changes.html   https://www.baseball...r-league-teams/   It would appear that MLB must be thinking the...
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2019 MLB (Non-Twins) Postseason Discussion Thread

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Here's thread for general (non-Twins) 2019 MLB postseason discussion!
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Front Page: Twins Daily 2019 Awards: Most Valuable Player

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The 2019 Twins were propelled to 101 victories by a wide range of contributions, and that dynamic was reflected in our polling for team M...
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So Now What? Here's Twins Daily's Offseason Primer

“Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.” – Janis Joplin

When the time was right, the Twins promised they would pull the trigger. It could not be any more right than this offseason – the Twins have unprecedented freedom to address their starting pitching issues - and Twins Daily will cover their decisions, rumors and moves (or lack thereof) every day throughout the offseason.
Image courtesy of © Ben Ludeman-USA TODAY Sports
First up: tomorrow we’ll start coverage from our 12th annual Twins Daily Offseason Handbook. It’s a complete breakdown of the decisions the Twins will need to make, including how much they’re likely to spend, which free agents will be available, what trade candidates they can pursue, and a full breakdown of minor league options. You’ll be able to preorder it tomorrow, ensuring you get it before we even get to the end of the World Series.

You’ll also get daily coverage of the team, even without games. Want a breakdown of what you can expect from Luis Arraez? Well, we’ve already got that, but we’ll have more like that. Want to hear about how top Twins prospect Royce Lewis is doing in the Arizona Fall League? OK, we already have that too, but there will be plenty more coverage like that as well.

How about the latest rumors? They’ll be covered in our stories, but covered even more immediately in our forums, along with thoughtful, civil discussion about what they mean, and whether they make sense for the Twins.

There should be plenty to talk about. Derek Falvey and Thad Levine have positioned the Twins to have a very low payroll commitment exactly when they need to go out and rebuild a starting rotation to compete with teams like the Astros and Yankees. We will be detailing that tomorrow, and how even if the Pohlads don’t break the bank, money should not be much of a limiting factor.

We’ll also be profiling free agent targets or trade candidates pretty much every day on the site. If you haven’t already, you’ll learn all about Gerrit Cole, the top free agent starting pitcher available. Is it even worth talking about whether the Twins could land the top free agent pitcher on the market? Hint: there’s already an essay in the Offseason Handbook titled “Could the Twins Sign Gerrit Cole?”

For the next four months, right up until spring training, we’ll be covering the Twins, uh, daily. Just like we have done for the last seven years. If you’re not ready for the season to end, we’ve got good news: it never does here. We’ll see you tomorrow.

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62 Comments

I can't think of one team in history that added three legit starting pitchers in one off season. I imagine not many have added two.....

I'm not interested in being in on players. That's been the line since McPhail left.

Kris Kristofferson

    • ashbury, USAFChief and mickeymental like this
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Taildragger8791
Oct 08 2019 10:00 AM

 

If we're smart, we'll look at where we can upgrade as well as merely plugging holes.

I agree with those who think we'll push all in on the bull pen game strategy. My guess is that we decline Perez' option then resign to an extension. Graterol will still be on a count next year. Smeltzer and Dobnak will rotate through opening, primary, and long relief.

Technically, we'll gain an extra roster spot, but we're officially limited to 13 pitchers which we frequently carried anyway. But we lose some ability to shuttle as options are 15 day assignments from 10 days this year.

Personally, I think this method will backfire enormously. Human nature says we like routine and certainty, and that stress and anxiety is cumulative. Mental breaks are important. Mess with routines, and you risk getting the worst from your players instead of the max. (irony).

 

This seems crazy to me after we saw how poorly the bullpen strategy worked in the playoffs without a few starting pitchers that can at least get you 4-5 quality innings. You end up so far behind you don't even get a chance to throw your top relievers out there before the game is out of hand. Even the best bullpen can't cover 7 innings per night.

    • gunnarthor, Vanimal46, KidBro and 1 other like this

Kris Kristofferson

We need RIverbrian to step up and handle editing duties for John Bonnes. :)

I'll throw up my two cents because the wife won't listen...I'd talk contract with Odo but wouldn't do anything more than 3 years and the price would have to be right. I'd talk with Pineda as well but also wouldn't go longer than a few years. Offer MadBum 2 years at good money. Please do not even talk to Gibson. I think it's clear by now that Berrios isn't a #1. But he's a good #2. The Twins need to go out and find a #1. There isn't one in the system unless Graterol can prove he's a starter and not a future power reliever. They have the prospect depth to deal from and need to at least explore it. We're not paying Cole. The window is open now with Detroit, KC, and Chicago down and Cleveland showing signs of decline.Take advance of the weak division while you can and take your chances in the playoffs. 

 

Castro is gone (unless he's back on a cheaper deal). Tortuga as the back up. I'd consider letting Cron go and moving Sano to first. Let's be honest people, he's not a good third baseman. Marwin plays third. Polanco, Arreaz as your middle IFs, Ehire as back up. Trade Rosario (plus prospects) for pitching - Buxton, Kepler, and Kirilloff/Rooker, as the core OFs + 4th OF guy not named Jake Cave.  

 

Castro, Cron, Schoop, and Pineda off the books opens up money. Use it in the rotation and/or bullpen. I'd consider bringing Romo back, But go get a trusted veteran reliever as well. 

 

C: Garver, Turtle

1st: Sano

2nd: Arreaz

SS: Jorge

3rd: Marwin

OF: Kepler/Bux + Kirilloff/Rooker + 4th guy

DH: Cruz

 

Rotation: Berrios, Odo/MadBum, Graterol + FA + FA/Dobnak

 

Bullpen: Rodgers, May, Duffy, Romo, Littel, plus filler. Find a good LH reliever

    • Taildragger8791 likes this

Hey John, gonna pick a nit :)

 

"Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose"

 

Kristoferson, Foster

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Taildragger8791
Oct 08 2019 10:18 AM

 

We have a disgusting amount of time now to discuss Rosario's trade value. To get a start on it, I don't think we're going to like it.

MLB player swaps rarely happen. What do we expect for a 1 WAR player on his last year of control? I doubt it's anything more than a Fernando Romero type... Someone who may have been a top prospect but struggling to live up to it.

 

I don't expect to get a haul for Rosario, but I don't want to extend him either. This lineup could use some steadier bats/defense to compliment the boom/bust, so rather than let him walk I'd rather get something and at the same time see if they can replace one of their most volatile & impatient hitters. I like Rosario and his aggressiveness, he's definitely a gamer and gets big hits, but there just isn't enough upside in his bat at his position to accept the boom/bust outcomes.

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Battle ur tail off
Oct 08 2019 10:25 AM

 

We have a disgusting amount of time now to discuss Rosario's trade value. To get a start on it, I don't think we're going to like it.

MLB player swaps rarely happen. What do we expect for a 1 WAR player on his last year of control? I doubt it's anything more than a Fernando Romero type... Someone who may have been a top prospect but struggling to live up to it.

 

Then just keep him. 

 

He's arbitration eligible, you don't know what to expect from the vaunted prospect gang. My guess is none of them can produce as well as Rosario has until they are 25-26. 

 

 

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Battle ur tail off
Oct 08 2019 10:28 AM

 

I don't expect to get a haul for Rosario, but I don't want to extend him either. This lineup could use some steadier bats/defense to compliment the boom/bust, so rather than let him walk I'd rather get something and at the same time see if they can replace one of their most volatile & impatient hitters. I like Rosario and his aggressiveness, he's definitely a gamer and gets big hits, but there just isn't enough upside in his bat at his position to accept the boom/bust outcomes.

 

He can't just "walk" unless we want him to. I don't hand the keys to some prospect when I have the heart and soul of our team under my control. 

 

Keep Rosario. Bring up your other boys and give them a starting spot, expect about a .200/.300/.350 line. They aren't ready and will take a few years to acclimate either way. 

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Taildragger8791
Oct 08 2019 10:37 AM

 

He can't just "walk" unless we want him to. I don't hand the keys to some prospect when I have the heart and soul of our team under my control. 

 

Keep Rosario. Bring up your other boys and give them a starting spot, expect about a .200/.300/.350 line. They aren't ready and will take a few years to acclimate either way. 

 

I thought he only had a year of arbitration left, my mistake. I wouldn't drop him just to count on a prospect to replace him, since I think pretty much all prospects are suspects until they prove otherwise in the majors. If they find a stopgap free agent for a year or two that would be ideal. Use his $5-$6 million he'll get in arbitration towards a hitter that provides a steady presence in the heart of the order rather than his swing-from-the-heels-on-a-ball-thrown-at-his-eyes boom/bust style.

I see all of the talk of trading Rosario and don't like it. To me he is more of a core guy than Miguel Sano. Sano is still young enough and talented enough that you should be able to use him to trade for starting pitching. Buxton is a trade chip too.
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Channing1964
Oct 08 2019 12:23 PM
I havent had a lot of time to think about it. Im not going to say what everuone prolly thinks I'll say(and thats to fire the Falvines). For all the griping we all did, the pitching was a big reason why we won 101 games. A lot of those home runs did not come in clutch situations. When i think back to some of the best offenses i have ever seen in my life the '75-77 Red Sox and the 88-90 A's come to mind. I get it that statistically there were better ones but those two stick in my mind. I think they have one championship total. We all know we need some pitchers. Aside from getting Cole....who would get us over the hump? A year ago we were waiting for a window. Now I feel like we have a one year window. Things will never be the same once Nellie retires. We should have the same offense. Maybe Kiriloff can beat out Cron. Buxton we hope will be back healthy. I do not see a reason to do anything but leave the offense alone. $o say we have 70 million we can spend ....what would you do? I for one would want Odorizzi and Pineda back(yes Pineda). You cant sign Polanco to an extension then shun big Mike for the same thing. Minnesotans are never, ever hypocrites. How can we improve on 101 wins? Berrios will be back. Can we take a chance on Gibson? I would. in a reduced role. Cole would be a great ace. Other ones are available too. If we wanna take the next step it ses obvious that we need 1 (or2) top flight starters and maybe another lights out left handed reliever. We have the money. Please? Let's not do some dumb newsmaking trade for Mookie Betts bull$hit. it really isnt broken....lets just upgrade it.

I see all of the talk of trading Rosario and don't like it. To me he is more of a core guy than Miguel Sano. Sano is still young enough and talented enough that you should be able to use him to trade for starting pitching. Buxton is a trade chip too.


Rosario is a slightly below average corner outfielder with two years of control left. They also have two top 75 corner outfield prospects. Rosario is also more expensive than Buxton or Sano. That matters to a team with a budget.
    • Danchat, SF Twins Fan and Channing1964 like this
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Channing1964
Oct 08 2019 12:27 PM
RIP 2019 Twins...thanks for the great memories!
    • PDX Twin likes this
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Channing1964
Oct 08 2019 12:37 PM

Rosario is a slightly below average corner outfielder with two years of control left. They also have two top 75 corner outfield prospects. Rosario is also more expensive than Buxton or Sano. That matters to a team with a budget.

I dont want to start an argument. i just want to remind everyone that Rosario is one of us now. Nobody was trying to trade him in September of 2017, or at all last year. He has shown he can become an elite player. Consistency will be the key. As it is with any 22-26 year old player.

 

 They also have two top 75 corner outfield prospects. 

Neither of whom is proven at the MLB level. Classic bird in hand is with two in the bush scenario.

    • SwainZag likes this

Neither of whom is proven at the MLB level. Classic bird in hand is with two in the bush scenario.


I never said they were. I was replying to the thought that somehow a below average, expensive, corner OF was more valuable than Buxton or Sano....
    • beckmt likes this

My hatred for the Yankees right now is blinding my emotions.

    • USNMCPO likes this

So thinking to next year. Tell me where I am wrong with the Twins moves.

Pick up the option on Nelson (no brainer)
Decline options on Perez (7MM) and Dyson. Do not re-sign Schoop or Cron (Move Sano to 1st).Only re-sign Castro if price is right to be back-up catcher for 1 year. Otherwise find a decent left handed hitting backup catcher. Many of them around to be had. Bring back Romo for 1 year. He’s a great team guy and very experienced. His “spinners” work with our other power arms from right side.

Put the qualifying offer on Odorizzi. Pretty much confirms he would be back for at least 1 year when a draft pick gets hooked to him.

Do not bring back Pineda. Misses first 40 games of next year to suspension. That’s ¼ of a season. No thanks.

Consider trading Sano or Rosario along with a couple decent prospects for a good young front line starter. Not sure yet who that might be but must be one somewhere? (Maybe Thor?) I would prefer Sano be the one as he just doesn’t make enough contact for me and isn’t much for defense at 3rd. If you keep him he needs to play first and make a little better contact. He will always strike out a lot but 8 times in 12 at bats in playoffs is not acceptable. If Rosario would be traded find a decent outfielder to plug in. Pirates might want to move Starling Marte as he is due a larger salary than they like to carry. They would likely trade him quite willingly.

Since Sano has now moved to 1st and Arizona is rebuilding you check with them to see what it would cost to make a trade and bring Eduardo Escobar back to play 3rd. We could use a LH power bat and I love Eduardo!

Sign a very goodreliever to pair with Rogers. Not sure who yet but they will be available.

Would love to have Garret Cole. Not going to happen. Strasburg might be available. Not going to happen. That’s why we need to find really good young arm and probably over pay a bit. This person has to be someone we can keep for 2-3 years at a minimum.

Sign Zack Wheeler for the rotation. Good arm to add to rotation. Sign a lefty for rotation. Cole Hamels maybe??

Rotation would than be Berrios, Odo, Wheeler, Lefty starter (Hamels?) and Graterol.Have Smeltzer, Thorpe and Doubnek at AAA as needed to step into rotation in case of injuries.

The only way the Twins add a front line pitcher will be if they build yet another new bar at Target Field and name it "Front Line Pitcher"

    • spycake and Taildragger8791 like this

Top tier FA SPs:

Cole, Strasburg

 

Second-tier FA SPs:

Bumgarner, Ryu, Wheeler

 

Third-tier FA SPs:

Odorizzi, Keuchel, Hamels, Pineda

 

Fourth-tier FA SPs: 

Bailey, Smyly, Wainwright, Miley, Roark, Vargas, Teheran, Wood, Chacin

 

Trade candidate SPs:

Syndegaard, Ray, Minor, Boyd, Urena, Samardzija, Scherzer (probably wishful thinking)

 

Get 1-2 guys from tiers 1-3. Trade a Rosario package for another SP. Sign 1-2 more SPs from the fourth tier or scrap heap to fill out the rotation. Give Smeltzer/Thorpe/Graterol a shot to win a rotation job. Be ready to trade for a rental SP at the deadline if things look shaky. Their failure to pick up a starter at the deadline this year was a huge part of their downfall.

    • Vanimal46 likes this

 

I dont want to start an argument. i just want to remind everyone that Rosario is one of us now. Nobody was trying to trade him in September of 2017, or at all last year. He has shown he can become an elite player. Consistency will be the key. As it is with any 22-26 year old player.

I don't want to start an argument either, but Rosario is 28.

    • Puckett34, Danchat, toosweet64 and 1 other like this

Top tier FA SPs:
Cole, Strasburg

Second-tier FA SPs:
Bumgarner, Ryu, Wheeler

Third-tier FA SPs:
Odorizzi, Keuchel, Hamels, Pineda

Fourth-tier FA SPs:
Bailey, Smyly, Wainwright, Miley, Roark, Vargas, Teheran, Wood, Chacin

Trade candidate SPs:
Syndegaard, Ray, Minor, Boyd, Urena, Samardzija, Scherzer (probably wishful thinking)

Get 1-2 guys from tiers 1-3. Trade a Rosario package for another SP. Sign 1-2 more SPs from the fourth tier or scrap heap to fill out the rotation. Give Smeltzer/Thorpe/Graterol a shot to win a rotation job. Be ready to trade for a rental SP at the deadline if things look shaky. Their failure to pick up a starter at the deadline this year was a huge part of their downfall.


I like your tiers. I will argue Wheeler will be a top tier FA and get paid like one.

I get the feeling Odorizzi will be a target for the Astros... They love pitchers who live in the top of the zone and if he goes there, they'll find another level to unlock with him.

Rosario makes the most sense to trade but again, I don't think his trade value is very attractive. They would have to pony up a good value prospect along with him to get something decent in return.

Finally, I would prefer not having any internal option, no matter how many, fighting for the #5 spot in the rotation. Go out and fill all 5 spots with veterans they think will help win.
    • SF Twins Fan likes this

 

Yeah. It's time to go grab an ace (if he's really serious) or shut up as the saying goes. Quite frankly and honestly (again playing capt. obvious) this was the year they should have done it at the trade deadline and they did NOTHING on the starting pitching front.

 

We will never see a regular season outburst like this again from this franchise in our lifetimes. Next year (if they stick to the status quo of what they've got for players) i expect them to regress in wins by about 10-15 games. No way will the team have 8 players hitting 20+ homeruns.

I feel compelled to get back to commenting here after that mess of a series, as I basically read this site every day.

1. Totally agree, would love to see an ace or somebody close to or above Berrios-level. Would love to see Cole, but am expecting somebody like Wheeler. 

2. The thing that worries me about 2020 already is how all these injuries will affect these guys going into the offseason, and thus, their ability to get ready for the start of the spring training and the season. In the first month of the season we have 7 games against the A's, 3 vs. Cleveland, 3 vs. Boston and 2 vs. the LAD. Not the easiest out of the gate if you're missing key parts. 

I'd part with Rosario in a trade if they could replace him with a high-OBP guy that has some speed. They have all the power that they need, even if the baseball comes back to earth next year and homeruns are down. What they need is one more guy like Arraez getting on base regularly so that the solo homers become 2-run homers. And having a guy who is a threat to run forces mistakes from the pitcher and defense. With Buxton out we had exactly zero of those down the stretch.