Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

The Forums

Article: Winter Meetings: Reliever Roulette

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 01:44 AM
The free agent relief market is finally beginning to take shape at the Winter Meetings. The Minnesota Twins, for now, are biding their ti...
Full topic ›

Article: 4 Stories To Watch At The Winter Meetings

Minnesota Twins Talk Yesterday, 11:52 PM
With Christmas only two weeks away, the Hot Stove has yet to heat up for Major League Baseball. But that's about to change.Two situations...
Full topic ›

Article: Winter Meetings - Search For A Starter

Minnesota Twins Talk Yesterday, 11:52 PM
The Winter Meetings are an interesting event, particularly for fans. There are a multitude of rumors, and we need to sift through them to...
Full topic ›

T-Wolves Regular Season Thread

Minnesota Timberwolves Talk Yesterday, 11:18 PM
Let's get this mother started.    
Full topic ›

Article: Twins Prospect Spotlight Series: Ben Rortvedt

Twins Minor League Talk Yesterday, 11:09 PM
As a way to look back at a great minor league season and look ahead toward the release of the 2018 Twins Prospect Handbook, I’ll be writi...
Full topic ›

Report From The Fort: Berrios Gone, Duffey v. Mejia

The place to be this morning for Twins baseball nerds was Boston’s minor league fields to see Tyler Duffey and Adalberto Mejia, both battling for a shot at the fifth starters role, pitched in AA and AAA games respectively. This afternoon, we learned that the matchup meant even more than we thought as leading fifth starter candidate, Jose Berrios, was optioned to the minors.
Image courtesy of © Mark J. Rebilas-USA TODAY Sports
The baseball nerds swarmed this morning; just ask Twins CBO Derek Falvey, Manager Paul Molitor, Director of Baseball Research Jack Goin, scouts, players, most of the Twins Cities baseball media nerds and several Twins Daily supporters. They were almost all huddled around picnic tables behind the backstop with notebooks and radar guns.

Then, this afternoon, we found out that Jose Berrios, who had spent most of his time this March with the Puerto Rico WBC baseball team, was optioned to the minors. He just wasn’t going to be able to get the pitch counts in that he needed to be ready for the regular season.

Jumping between minor league games that were all of 20 yards from each other was fun, and I'll give more details, but let’s jump to the results. Duffey had a helluva game versus those AA hitters. He went 6 innings on (by my count) 82 pitches, struck out ten, walked one, gave up four hits and one unearned run. (I’m counting a long fly ball that hit the left fielder's glove an E7. Others saw it as a wind-aided double. That would be fifth hit and an earned run.)

I didn’t see much of Adalberto Mejia, and I don’t have final numbers. I do know that he had a rough second inning that was described as “flukey.” He gave up four runs in that inning, including a home run that was described as “wind aided”. I should note, for the most part, Duffey’s batters were hitting into the wind today and Mejia’s had it at their back. I should however also note that Duffey's fourth inning started with a double and a single both of which were easy fly balls if not for the wind blowing them towards the foul line.

Mejia, however, struck out six of the first eight batters he faced. He also hit 94 a few times in the later innings. It was a decent outing, and showed why people are starting to get excited to see what Mejia can do this year.

Both starters sounded very satisfied with their outings and I don't think either one disqualified themselves from another start. It remains to be seen if the Twins will/can find innings for them both in one more spring training start. Personally, I'd love to see it.
Feel free to give your initial reaction below. We’ll be back later tonight with a detailed breakdown of what I learned (and what is still confusing ) from watching Duffey’s start this morning.

  • hybridbear likes this

  • Share:
  • submit to reddit
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

92 Comments

Most will probably rail about the front office for sending Berrios down, but I'm not one of them. #1 Berrios (and Chargois, yesterday's news) need to find their groove in AAA, then be brought back up. As some commented in the Chargois thread, this is (at least partially) what option years are for. #2 Also as some commented in the Chargois thread, hold the players accountable. Berrios hasn't gotten the innings and Duffey & Mejia have performed well. Chargois was not only bad, he wasn't showing signs of getting the kinks worked out. #3 Put some faith in Falvine. They not only are known for their pitching acumen (well, as least Falvey is), they bring perspective from outside the organization and what the Indians and Rangers thought of these guys.

 

P.S. Thank you, John, for being there and being our eyes on the ground in Florida. It's great to have the news you provide!

    • BigSkyTwinsFan, Ryan Atkins, gil4 and 7 others like this
Photo
ChiTownTwinsFan
Mar 25 2017 01:05 PM
I'm not surprised about Berrios. Not sure how I feel about it yet, but I'm not surprised. I think the writing was on the wall with the lack of innings he was getting in the WBC. It's unfortunate a player is 'penalized' for wanting to represent his country in the tournament, but at this time of year I'm not sure what else can be done or expected. But that's a discussion for a different thread.
    • Vanimal46 and Shaitan like this

The results were known regarding Berrios (and Vargas, wait for the announcement) from the point they made the choice to be in the WBC and mostly sit, instead of staying back and fight for a position.The jury on whether Santiago is stretched enough to star, after being a reliever with PR in the WBC, is still out.Tonight's game against Baltimore will be telling.if he cannot go 6 innings, I would not be surprised if he starts the season in the pen, with both Duffey and Mejia making the rotation, and then switching with Duffey, when Falvine discover that he is not a starter and would better help the team as a reliever.

    • Sconnie, HitInAPinch and D.C Twins like this
Photo
Hosken Bombo Disco
Mar 25 2017 01:23 PM

Then, this afternoon, we found out that Jose Berrios, who had spent most of his time this March with the Puerto Rico WBC baseball team, was optioned to the minors. He just wasn’t going to be able to get the pitch counts in that he needed to be ready for the regular season.

To whom can we attribute this explanation?
Photo
bluechipper
Mar 25 2017 01:27 PM

That's a bummer. I'd like to see Mejia get the spot now with Duffey in the bullpen.

 

It's nice to see the team's highest upside starter and reliever down in AAA, even though both have previous MLB experience...

 

 

It's nice to see the team's highest upside starter and reliever down in AAA, even though both have previous MLB experience...

 

Well... Berrios did it to himself. He realized that he would not pitch enough with Puerto Rico to be stretched enough to be a starter for the Twins by opening day, and still did it.

 

The teams' highest upside relievers (Burdi and Jay) are in AA.Chargois had really horrible command of his fastball.Unless he regains it, he will suck.And it will be less consequential for the Twins for him to do that in AAA vs in the majors.

 

    • brvama, beckmt, Oldgoat_MN and 4 others like this
Photo
bluechipper
Mar 25 2017 01:55 PM

 

Well... Berrios did it to himself. He realized that he would not pitch enough with Puerto Rico to be stretched enough to be a starter for the Twins by opening day, and still did it.

 

The teams' highest upside relievers (Burdi and Jay) are in AA.Chargois had really horrible command of his fastball.Unless he regains it, he will suck.And it will be less consequential for the Twins for him to do that in AAA vs in the majors.

However we've arrived here, it's a bummer to see the team's highest upside starter and 3rd highest upside reliever in AAA then.

    • Mike Sixel, Oldgoat_MN and d-mac like this

I admit to not having intimate knowledge of any of them but from afar I wish Duffey and Mejia got the spots in place of Hughes.  I just don't trust arms that have had surgery being rushed back as if now everything is as good as it was two years ago. Let Hughes work his way back into quality and consistency and have him and Berrios waiting in the wings. I can pretty much guarantee the starting rotation will not be the ending rotation.

    • beckmt, Oldgoat_MN, HitInAPinch and 3 others like this
Photo
ChiTownTwinsFan
Mar 25 2017 02:07 PM

However we've arrived here, it's a bummer to see the team's highest upside starter and 3rd highest upside reliever in AAA then.


It's both a bummer and not unexpected given the lack of work the WBC provided.
    • Oldgoat_MN, bluechipper, joemama and 1 other like this
Photo
Hosken Bombo Disco
Mar 25 2017 02:45 PM

It's both a bummer and not unexpected given the lack of work the WBC provided.

But that's my question. Are we talking about innings Berrios has pitched in games? How much game work has Hughes had?

Bonnes made it sound like there was an informal press conference so that's why I am wondering. I don't think that explanation holds. At least not by itself.
Photo
ChiTownTwinsFan
Mar 25 2017 02:51 PM

But that's my question. Are we talking about innings Berrios has pitched in games? How much game work has Hughes had?
Bonnes made it sound like there was an informal press conference so that's why I am wondering. I don't think that explanation holds. At least not by itself.


Hughes has pitched in a more games and has had many more innings, with both ML and MiL games.
Photo
Hosken Bombo Disco
Mar 25 2017 03:04 PM

Hughes has pitched in a more games and has had many more innings, with both ML and MiL games.

Berrios has pitched in four games, I think, and I would guess Hughes has pitched in four or five. If we are going to count Hughes's Milb scrimmage, then we should probably count whatever work Berrios did between March 12 and March 23. Did he through a good bullpen in that time? I have no idea. That's where I'm going with this. I doubt very much that Hughes has pitched "many more" innings than Berrios. It would be nice to get some more information.
Photo
ChiTownTwinsFan
Mar 25 2017 03:13 PM

Berrios has pitched in four games, I think, and I would guess Hughes has pitched in four or five. If we are going to count Hughes's Milb scrimmage, then we should probably count whatever work Berrios did between March 12 and March 23. Did he through a good bullpen in that time? I have no idea. That's where I'm going with this. I doubt very much that Hughes has pitched "many more" innings than Berrios. It would be nice to get some more information.

It's not the number of games, it's the number of innings and pitches thrown. Just coming in as a reliever to pitch an inning or an out for a handful of pitches is not stretched out enough to be starting games on the ML level, and I have my doubts whether or not he can be in a week. Had he even started in a game? Gone even 4 innings at a time, let alone 5 or 6, up to 70 pitches? I don't know for sure what work he got in on the side, but he definitely hasn't done that in games. And while Hughes hasn't been good, Berrios hasn't really been either in smaller samples, despite the youth and upside. I'm not excited about this, I don't even like it, but imo being on team PR, while I don't blame him for being so, set him back for the start of the season. He made the decision for them. If Hughes never gets it together by the time Berrios is stretched out enough in AAA, then make the switch, as soon as possible.

Now, if they choose Duffy over Mejia, that will make me far less understanding as well as not liking it.
Photo
Hosken Bombo Disco
Mar 25 2017 03:25 PM

 

It's not the number of games, it's the number of innings and pitches thrown. Just coming in as a reliever to pitch an inning or an out for a handful of pitches is not stretched out enough to be starting games on the ML level, and I have my doubts whether or not he can be in a week. Had he even started in a game? Gone even 4 innings at a time, let alone 5 or 6, up to 70 pitches? I don't know for sure what work he got in on the side, but he definitely hasn't done that in games. And while Hughes hasn't been good, Berrios hasn't really been either in smaller samples, despite the youth and upside. I'm not excited about this, I don't even like it, but imo being on team PR, while I don't blame him for being so, set him back for the start of the season. He made the decision for them. If Hughes never gets it together by the time Berrios is stretched out enough in AAA, then make the switch, as soon as possible.

Now, if they choose Duffy over Mejia, that will make me far less understanding as well as not liking it.

There is a lot of opinion here; that's fine. I expect you will be in the vast majority on this decision. :) I will wait for the more detailed report.

 

I admit to not having intimate knowledge of any of them but from afar I wish Duffey and Mejia got the spots in place of Hughes.  I just don't trust arms that have had surgery being rushed back as if now everything is as good as it was two years ago. Let Hughes work his way back into quality and consistency and have him and Berrios waiting in the wings. I can pretty much guarantee the starting rotation will not be the ending rotation.

 

I do not completely disagree with this. Matter of fact, after I saw Hughes' start at Port Charlotte last week, I was disappointed with the velocity (touched 91 once) but not the results (14% SwStr%) .It was reported that in his following start he was up to 94, which makes me feel better. 

 

Here is the thing: Do I trust Duffey more than Hughes as a starter at this point?I cannot say yes, after the last 2 seasons.191 innings are enough. Duffey belongs in the pen, and I'd rather have Hughes than him in the rotation.And having Duffey over (let's say Tonkin) in the pen will help the Twins in 2017...

 

I do trust Mejia.He is a strikeout pitcher and the Twins need more than that.For me the rotation should be (in order of personal trust on particular pitchers)Santana, Gibson, Mejia, Hughes, Santiago (if he is stretched enough).

Photo
ChiTownTwinsFan
Mar 25 2017 03:53 PM

There is a lot of opinion here; that's fine. I expect you will be in the vast majority on this decision. :) I will wait for the more detailed report.


You'll be waiting a long time methinks, if you think the FO is going to give a detailed report of why they made the decision they did. But who knows, they might choose to enlighten us thoroughly.
Photo
Hosken Bombo Disco
Mar 25 2017 04:00 PM

 

You'll be waiting a long time methinks, if you think the FO is going to give a detailed report of why they made the decision they did. But who knows, they might choose to enlighten us thoroughly.

The Twins Daily report.

Photo
ChiTownTwinsFan
Mar 25 2017 04:07 PM

The Twins Daily report.

Well, the TD report above did say this:

He just wasn’t going to be able to get the pitch counts in that he needed to be ready for the regular season


<shrug> I guess that says enough for me.
Photo
Hosken Bombo Disco
Mar 25 2017 04:11 PM

 

Well, the TD report above did say this:
 

He just wasn’t going to be able to get the pitch counts in that he needed to be ready for the regular season

 

http://twinsdaily.co...mejia/?p=593730

Photo
ChiTownTwinsFan
Mar 25 2017 04:15 PM

http://twinsdaily.co...mejia/?p=593730

So, you are asking who specifically made the decision?

Not sure what you are getting at with all this ...
Photo
Hosken Bombo Disco
Mar 25 2017 04:37 PM

I forgot you are in Florida trying to have fun, so I will drop it :)

 

"Berrios is not stretched out" is one of those perfectly reasonable sounding things that, actually, doesn't hold up as well when you scrutinize it.

 

Molitor has already implied that Berrios wouldn't be able to "get his work in" and I was wondering if someone with the Twins told that to Bonnes directly this morning. That's all. 

 

I mean, I'm not disagreeing, I'm just asking for more information, because it sounds too much like Twins-speak. I think Berrios would be just fine getting stretched out for a 75-90 pitch start on April 8 or thereabouts. 

Photo
Taildragger8791
Mar 25 2017 04:44 PM

I'm not sure why anybody is surprised Berrios went to AAA to start the year. It's not like he's being punished or banished. He was dreadful in MLB last year and hasn't shown any proof this spring that he's addressed those root cause of his issues. Even the limited innings he got in WBC were basically a repeat of what we saw last year in Minnesota. If he'd stayed in camp and worked with his coaches in a controlled environment then maybe they'd have worked through those issues a bit and he'd get more of an opportunity. Instead, he'll have to go to AAA to work on it while the Twins use this last week of ST to get the actual rotation candidates set up for Opening Day. There aren't enough innings to keep 7-8 starting pitchers going in this last week.

 

Also, despite what some people think Santiago was in far better shape with regards to innings/pitches thrown. He'll probably throw 75-80 pitches today and has another appearance later this week. He'll easily be ready to throw 100 in his first start of the season.

    • BigSkyTwinsFan, Dantes929 and milldam like this
Photo
Hosken Bombo Disco
Mar 25 2017 05:01 PM

 

I'm not sure why anybody is surprised Berrios went to AAA to start the year.  

Surprised? Nope. I don't think that's the word you are looking for. 

Photo
Taildragger8791
Mar 25 2017 05:04 PM

Surprised? Nope. I don't think that's the word you are looking for.


Okay. I don't know why anyone would be upset at the Twins over this development. Disappointed, sure. I am too. But often times things don't go perfectly and there are little setbacks along the way. That's especially true in baseball.

The Twins management seems to just search for rationales for why to send their prospects back to the minor leagues.  Seriously, we have been in this "rebuild" for years upon years.  Since 2011 we have lost 99, 96, 96, 92 , 79, and 103 baseball games, and all the while our management has essentially pretended were were some sort of contender and plugging in old has beens to perform mediocre at best, rather than LOSE WITH OUR PROSPECTS.

 

WHat more does JJ Berios and JT Chargois have to prove at the AAA level?

 

Berrios as a 21 year old had a 2.62 ERA over 75 innings at AAA.  He followed that up with 2.51 ERA over 111 innings as a 22 year old before the Twins decided "Hey we should bring him up."  He struggles so the braintrust at the top loses all confidence in him and would rather pitch Phil Hughes for a 100 innings before he blows his elbow out rather than give Berrios teh experience.

 

The same holds true with Chargois.  Chargois is 26 years old.  I get that the arm injuries severely slowed down his career path, but what more do you want to see him do in AAA?  Have a sub 1.00 ERA and K/9 > 11?  

 

YOu put Berrios in the starting rotation and Chargois as at least your set up man from day 1 this season, AND YOU STICK WITH THEM.  THAT IS HOW YOU BUILD YOUR TEAM FOR THE FUTURE.  LOSE NOW, LET THE PROSPECTS GET EXPERIENCE, SORT OUT THE GOOD ONES FROM THE BAD.

 

The way this is going, it will be another 6 years of 90+ losses before they can straighten this out.

    • Mike Sixel, beckmt, mikelink45 and 3 others like this

Similar Articles


by Ted Schwerzler , 30 Nov 2017
Photo


by Cody Christie , 22 Nov 2017
Photo


by Seth Stohs , 23 Oct 2017
Photo


by Cody Christie , 23 Oct 2017
Photo


by Seth Stohs , 09 Oct 2017
Photo