Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

The Forums

Article: Official Winter Meetings Day 0 Thread

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 10:50 PM
While most of the official Winter Meetings meetings don't start until Monday, baseball people from major league, minor leagues and indepe...
Full topic ›

Article: 4 Stories To Watch At The Winter Meetings

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 10:30 PM
With Christmas only two weeks away, the Hot Stove has yet to heat up for Major League Baseball. But that's about to change.Two situations...
Full topic ›

Jack Morris Elected to Hall of Fame

Other Baseball Today, 10:17 PM
Along with Alan Trammel.Congrats to them both.
Full topic ›

Article: Thank You Moderators!

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 09:55 PM
Please join me in thanking our moderators for all their work in the Twins Daily forums. Twins Daily has a number of unique aspects that s...
Full topic ›

T-Wolves Regular Season Thread

Minnesota Timberwolves Talk Today, 09:51 PM
Let's get this mother started.    
Full topic ›

Recent Blogs


Twins Acquire Two Prospects For International Bonus Money

Minnesota missed out on the Shohei Ohtani sweepstakes but there might be some good news on the horizon. There are multiple teams still in the race for Ohtani and they need international slot money to spend on the two-way Japanese star.

On Wednesday night, the Twins struck two deals to send money to teams still in the race for Ohtani. What prospects did the Twins receive? How did Minnesota have this money? Who will get some of their international slot money?
Image courtesy of Sipa USA-USA TODAY NETWORK
Marte Money
Jelfry Marte had been signed by the Twins to a $3 million deal this summer. However, an issue found on his physical exam meant the deal was voided. With Marte’s money back in their international pool, Minnesota had $3.245 million to try and lure Ohtani to the Midwest. Last weekend, he informed the Twins that he wouldn’t be signing with them. This allowed the club to trade away some of their pool money to eager Ohtani suitors.

Mariners Trade

Catcher David Banuelos, a 21-year old Ontario, CA native, was drafted this year by Seattle in the fifth round out of Long Beach State. He spent all of this season in the Northwest League (Short-A) where he hit .236/.331/.394 with four home runs and eight doubles in 36 games. He made 26 starts behind the plate with a .982 fielding percentage. He threw out 18 potential runners and allowed 30 stolen bases.

With his college experience, he is considered a strong defender. He shows the ability to get on base and he has some power from the right-side of the plate. He could develop into a big league catcher in the years to come.

Angels Trade

Outfielder Jacob Pearson, a 19-year old, was drafted this year by the Angels in the third round. Los Angeles had to go overslot and offer him a $1 million to lure him away from his LSU commitment. He spent all of last season in the Arizona League (Rookie) where he hit .226/.302/.284 with seven doubles and a triple in 40 games. He played center field and left field during his professional debut but 31 of his 40 starts came in left.

His defensive skills are a weak spot at this point in his career but he’s still a teenager. The Twins hope he can continue to develop the right kind of speed and power combination to make him a legitimate threat at the plate.

So how did the Twins do? Leave a COMMENT and start the discussion.

  • Winston Smith, big dog, howieramone2 and 1 other like this

  • Share:
  • submit to reddit
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

137 Comments

Why all the kindness for the Angels and the Mariners. We got them between the rock and the hard place. They BOTH need international bonus money in the hope of signing Ohtani and the Twins, now out of that contention, have international money to burn. Why didn't we go for the throat and put the squeeze on both of them for a better return? Seems like we could have done much better. I would like to see the ppitch package prepared by the Twins for Ohtani - Could it have been better? Can we sue him for Scandahoovian Discrimination against the Twins?
    • terrydactyls1947 likes this
Using the money (at no actual expense) versus not using it is the obviously right decision. Had to look it up to confirm but the money does not roll over so it would have been lost. The only question I have is whether they used it to acquire the right player(s). The Angels just signed Kevin Maitan for $2.2MM of international bonus money after his contract with the Braves was voided due to the international signing scandal. He was a top 50 prospect in all of baseball. Who knows if we could have signed him if we threw more $ at him or if we tried, but that would appear on its face to be a better usage of that money than the two we got. Time will tell though and Falvine’s moves thus far in acquiring young talent have been impressive (e.g., 2017 Draft + 2017 Trades).
    • Oldgoat_MN likes this

It's kind of nice to see how the Twins system stacks up with a couple other, seemingly, random teams. 

    • birdwatcher and Ski U Mah Gopher like this


Neither system is great either. Doubt either prospect is top 30 for Twins. Still makes sense.
    • Ski U Mah Gopher likes this
Photo
diehardtwinsfan
Dec 07 2017 06:10 AM

none of these guys hit very well, and one isn't even known for his defense. I'm a bit underwhelmed here. I'd have rather blown the entire 3.2 on a much better prospect.

    • USAFChief, gunnarthor, Dantes929 and 1 other like this
I had sort of anticipated them blowing the whole lot of the pool money on a single pitching prospect, the best they could find. Maybe they tried that and could not find a suitable value? It just seems to me that the money had the most return in that manner, and admittedly the most risk. This isn't intended as a criticism, simply an uneducated observation.

 

How about the Padres?Don't they have a reliever or two the Twins could maybe trade the rest of their international money for?

 

The Padres are capped at $300,000 because they over spent last year. 

 

The Dodgers, Giants and Cubs have the same penalty. 

 

They can't add money. Oops!

 

If Otani signs with any of those 4 teams... It will be pretty clear that Money was absolutely not a factor. 

 

 

 

Only the Rangers, Mariners and Angels can get in this Otani Bonus Arms Race. 

 

 

 

I find it interesting that the American League clubs have the bonus money and the DH. 

 

The National League teams don't have the DH or bonus money. 

 

 

    • luckylager, Dance with Disco Dan and Hollywood42 like this

 

Why all the kindness for the Angels and the Mariners. We got them between the rock and the hard place. They BOTH need international bonus money in the hope of signing Ohtani and the Twins, now out of that contention, have international money to burn. Why didn't we go for the throat and put the squeeze on both of them for a better return? Seems like we could have done much better. I would like to see the ppitch package prepared by the Twins for Ohtani - Could it have been better? Can we sue him for Scandahoovian Discrimination against the Twins?

 

It's hard to even guess what the market would pay. 

 

The Twins were not the only team with extra IBP money left.

 

If they squeeze too hard... The Yankees can always pick up the phone and tell the Mariners and Angels that they have even more money available than the Twins do. 

 

The Twins front office jumped right into it and made a deal with two of the three teams that can add bonus money for Otani. 

 

I tip my cap to them. 

 

 

 

 

    • ashburyjohn, luckylager, Blake and 9 others like this
Photo
birdwatcher
Dec 07 2017 07:12 AM

 

See I would have them flipped. Catcher guy interests me but I'm not interested in an outfielder with zero power and can't field. Can't possibly be ahead of Rooker. Rooker was mashing.

 

I'm only going on the video scouting report from MLB.com, which described Pearson as having 20/20 power/speed potential, described him as a strong kid with a body that could develop, and said his only fielding weakness, throwing, should improve coming off surgery on said arm. And on a third party reference from someone on Twinkietown who said MLB.com ranked Pearson higher than any Twins OF prospect other than Kiriloff. So you could be right, but I'm going to choose to be happy that Pearson is even regarded perhaps as highly as Badoo, Rooker, and Wade. Sounds like a pretty good use of IFA money to me.

 

I didn't find any glowing reports on Banuelos's minor league career, but maybe I missed them. The one thing I read was a pre-draft article that categorized him more as a sleeper while over a dozen other catching prospects were showcased in the article.

    • Dman, Hosken Bombo Disco, nytwinsfan and 4 others like this

I'm only going on the video scouting report from MLB.com, which described Pearson as having 20/20 power/speed potential, described him as a strong kid with a body that could develop, and said his only fielding weakness, throwing, should improve coming off surgery on said arm. And on a third party reference from someone on Twinkietown who said MLB.com ranked Pearson higher than any Twins OF prospect other than Kiriloff. So you could be right, but I'm going to choose to be happy that Pearson is even regarded perhaps as highly as Badoo, Rooker, and Wade. Sounds like a pretty good use of IFA money to me.

I didn't find any glowing reports on Banuelos's minor league career, but maybe I missed them. The one thing I read was a pre-draft article that categorized him more as a sleeper while over a dozen other catching prospects were showcased in the article.


It's important to note the mlb rankings are not updates for year end yet. Both of the prospects acquired have dropped.

They are probably as good as 8 or 9 of the 12 Braves prospects set free, but there is another Cuban prospect available better than all of them. Twins were good to grab some prospects but they are leaving some talent out there.
    • birdwatcher and nytwinsfan like this
Photo
IndianaTwin
Dec 07 2017 07:35 AM

 

.. don't get selected for the swimsuit portion, but have what Mike Sciosia in lingerie needs:...

 

...No one knows what Otani wants, but Twins know what teams pursuing Otani want.

 

 

Ugh. Sciosia in lingerie is not the image I need stuck in my mind at 8:30 in the morning. Or 8:30 in the evening, for that matter. Or ever.

 

I do like your summary statement, however. 

    • birdwatcher, Twins33, big dog and 1 other like this

 

It's hard to even guess what the market would pay. 

 

The Twins were not the only team with extra IBP money left.

 

If they squeeze too hard... The Yankees can always pick up the phone and tell the Mariners and Angels that they have even more money available than the Twins do. 

 

The Twins front office jumped right into it and made a deal with two of the three teams that can add bonus money for Otani. 

 

I tip my cap to them. 

Yes, I like this because, to me, this signals different thinking on the part of the FO. 

    • HitInAPinch and wsnydes like this
Photo
John Bonnes
Dec 07 2017 07:55 AM

I kind of like that these guys are both 2017 draft picks for two reasons.

 

1) To build a sustained period of success, the Twins are going to need another group of prospects to take the places of this group once they graduate to free agency. We got to experience that in the '00s years, when Mientkiewicz, Koskie, Jones, etc were replace by Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel. With some high end talent banging around in the lower minors right now, like Royce Lewis, there's hope that the Twins could see a similar handoff from this group to another group. This adds to that chance.

 

2) So far, this front office looks pretty astute at gauging draft prospects (knock, knock). Royce Lewis looks tremendous. Rooker is obviously pretty exciting. It stands to reason these were guys that they liked but missed out on and have continued to target. 

    • luckylager, Blake, brvama and 9 others like this
Photo
Tom Froemming
Dec 07 2017 08:15 AM

 

The only question I have is whether they used it to acquire the right player(s). The Angels just signed Kevin Maitan for $2.2MM of international bonus money after his contract with the Braves was voided due to the international signing scandal. He was a top 50 prospect in all of baseball. Who knows if we could have signed him if we threw more $ at him or if we tried, but that would appear on its face to be a better usage of that money than the two we got.

I believe given the unusual circumstances teams were allowed to use their 2018 international pools to sign the Braves guys if they wanted, so the Twins probably could've still afforded him even while doing these moves. But if I was Maitan I don't think I'd want to come here unless the Twins were able to overpay, given the glut of shortstops in the system. Also, I've heard people suggest Maitan will drop quite a bit in the 2018 preseason rankings from where he was on those 2017 midseason lists.

    • Steve Lein, gagu, SF Twins Fan and 2 others like this

 

I kind of like that these guys are both 2017 draft picks for two reasons.

 

1) To build a sustained period of success, the Twins are going to need another group of prospects to take the places of this group once they graduate to free agency. We got to experience that in the '00s years, when Mientkiewicz, Koskie, Jones, etc were replace by Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel. With some high end talent banging around in the lower minors right now, like Royce Lewis, there's hope that the Twins could see a similar handoff from this group to another group. This adds to that chance.

 

2) So far, this front office looks pretty astute at gauging draft prospects (knock, knock). Royce Lewis looks tremendous. Rooker is obviously pretty exciting. It stands to reason these were guys that they liked but missed out on and have continued to target. 

I agree with #1 - if the new FO can keep the window of opportunity open it'll be because they were able to bring up another wave of prospects like Ryan was able to do.

 

But #2 - we're too far away from having an idea on that. Yes the draft looks good but these kids have been playing ball for 3 months. Way too early to determine if they drafted well.

    • nytwinsfan likes this
I thought you had to wait a year from the time they were drafted before you can trade a prospect. Guess I was wrong

 

I thought you had to wait a year from the time they were drafted before you can trade a prospect. Guess I was wrong

They changed it to after the world series.

    • nytwinsfan, twinssouth, HitInAPinch and 2 others like this

We seem happy that the Twins did something. But are these good values? Are each of these players worth $1M?

We seem happy that the Twins did something. But are these good values? Are each of these players worth $1M?


We’re not paying $1M. We’re paying the opportunity of spending $1M. Falvine likely didn’t see better options remaining. Still have $1M
    • kenbuddha, gagu and Tom Froemming like this

 

We seem happy that the Twins did something. But are these good values? Are each of these players worth $1M?

Honestly, I'm not sure but I think it's roughly fair. 1m on the IBP isn't all that much - most elite players sign for more and you can go the quantity route and nab some guys for less - so I think what we got in return - avg ML regular guys as ceilings - is decent. Also, we're not paying money (Pohlad = cheap) but rather giving our ability to spend money to the other teams. 

 

At the end of the day, I think this was a defensible move and far better than not doing anything (which is what I thought they'd do) but it's also not evidence that Levine is playing three dimensional chess while Ryan would be playing checkers. 

    • Hosken Bombo Disco and Doomtints like this

 

The Angels just signed Kevin Maitan for $2.2MM of international bonus money after his contract with the Braves was voided due to the international signing scandal. He was a top 50 prospect in all of baseball. Who knows if we could have signed him if we threw more $ at him or if we tried, but that would appear on its face to be a better usage of that money than the two we got. Time will tell though and Falvine’s moves thus far in acquiring young talent have been impressive (e.g., 2017 Draft + 2017 Trades).

 

If you ask me, the Angels overpaid for Maitan after all this.

 

Maitan was not anything close to good this year in his first season and won't be a top 50, let alone top 100 guy anymore.

 

He was #77 on Baseball America, #32 on MLB.com, and #100 on Baseball Prospectus going into 2017.

    • Thrylos, kab21, Tom Froemming and 1 other like this

 

 It stands to reason these were guys that they liked but missed out on and have continued to target. 

 

This. As soon as I saw they were guys from the last draft, I figured they had been on the acquire radar of the current FO. Solid move using opportunity cost that is about to expire to add apparent desired depth to the system.

    • ashburyjohn, gagu and MN_ExPat like this

 

We seem happy that the Twins did something. But are these good values? Are each of these players worth $1M?

I think it depends on how you look at it. The Angels gave Pearson a one million dollar bonus to sign and the Twins gave them one million to spend on the international market.Seems like a pretty straight up trade there to me.Also I think most teams would probably give up one million to get get an extra third round pick. And yet by giving up that money it means they cannot spend it on an international player that might have better potential than Pearson.Or if they didn't manage to spend all the money then they get nothing.

 

The catcher for me is a bit of head scratcher.He was a 5th round draft choice that signed for $300,000.His floor seems to be great defensive catcher.He has a good eye at the plate but not a lot of power potential.He was a finalist for the Bench award but to me it seems like an over pay for us.I don't know that he will even be in our top 30 so I don't know what drove them to make that trade.I am no scout so I assume they see greater potential there than I do.

 

Both players have good potential and the Twins essentially got two extra 2017 draft picks for free, depending on how you look at it.Depth is a good thing so IMO they came out very good to OK with these deals.  

    • Doomtints likes this
Photo
terrydactyls1947
Dec 07 2017 09:46 AM


At the end of the day, I think this was a defensible move and far better than not doing anything (which is what I thought they'd do) but it's also not evidence that Levine is playing three dimensional chess while Ryan would be playing checkers.


I would venture to say that your chess/checkers opinion would be very different if the prospects were ranked a lot higher. However, I'm also pretty confident in guessing that the Twins asked for more and were turned down. To me, good move and I hope in three years it looks like it looks like great moves.
    • Doomtints and MN_ExPat like this

Regardless of how the prospects turn out, this is EXACTLY what you should do if you have no real plans to spend that pool money this year.Nice move by the new regime

    • ChiTownTwinsFan, twinssouth, dbminn and 5 others like this

Similar Articles


by Seth Stohs , 07 Dec 2017
Photo


by Cody Christie , 03 Dec 2017
Photo


by Nick Nelson , 26 Nov 2017
Photo


by Cody Christie , 16 Nov 2017
Photo


by Seth Stohs , 08 Nov 2017
Photo