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Game Thread: Twins vs Red Sox, 6/18/19, 7:10 PM

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 06:46 PM
The Twins have lost back-to-back games!! Oh my gosh, the world must be coming to an end. On a less extreme note, the Twins are still in f...
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Article: Potential Prospect Cost in Twins Trades

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 06:43 PM
As we move closer to July, we also push towards the looming Major League Baseball trade deadline. With the waiver period being removed in...
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Article: Minnesota Twins 2019 MLB Draft Signing Tracker

Twins Minor League Talk Today, 05:55 PM
Now that the 2019 MLB Draft is behind us, it is time to sit back and wait for news on when each of the 41 picks will either sign or decid...
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Article: BOS 2, MIN 0: Offense Squanders Berrios’ Gem

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 05:39 PM
Tonight’s game featured incredible starts by Jose Berrios and Boston’s Rick Procello. The only runs of the game came in the first inning...
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REPORT: Twins to Trade Eduardo Escobar to Arizona

Multiple reports have confirmed that the Twins and Diamondbacks are in agreement on a deal that would send Eduardo Escobar to Arizona. Here's the return: Jhoan Duran, Ernie De La Trinidad and Gabriel Maciel.

There has been a lot of debate at the site the past few days about how things should play out as Tuesday's tread deadline approaches. If this deal is indeed finalized, it seems to be a clear indication the direction the team has chosen.
Image courtesy of © Dan Hamilton-USA TODAY Sports
News the two sides were close was originally relayed by Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic on Twitter. Jon Heyman of Fancred confirmed there was indeed a deal being finalized.

John Gambadoro of Arizona Sports 98.7 has shared that three Diamondbacks minor leaguers will be headed over, though we're still waiting for names.

UPDATE: Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports has the details. The Twins are acquiring right-hander Jhoan Duran and outfielders Ernie De La Trinidad and Gabriel Maciel.

Over the past seven seasons, we've watched as Eduardo Escobar has blossomed from a pretty nondescript utility man into an everyday player who's on pace to set the all-time doubles record this year. It's been a fun journey, and I can only speak for myself, but he's a guy who I feel has endeared himself to the fans much more than the average ballplayer.

He was less of a professional baseball player who I enjoyed watching and more like a character on my favorite TV show. Always smiling, always having fun, always playing hard. And an entertainer to boot! Arizona is getting a good one.

Whether it was his play on the diamond, those great Escobar Name Game videos or him talking about Fogo de Chao in all his postgame interviews (there's one in Scottsdale, I checked), Eduardo will be sorely missed across Twins Territory.

According to MLB Pipeline, Maciel ranked No. 11 in Arizona's system and Duran was the Diamondbacks 19th-best prospect. De La Trinidada was not listed among their top 30. In Baseball America's most-recent update of the Arizona rankings, Duran slotted in at No. 10. All three of those players were with Kane County, Arizona's affiliate in the Midwest League (same as the Cedar Rapids Kernels).

Here are links to their respective Baseball-Reference pages if you want to scope out their numbers: Jhoan Duran, Gabriel Macial and Ernie De La Trinidad.

This is difficult to do in the moment, but if you take your heart out of the equation, you have to recognize that Escobar is exactly the kind of player who it makes sense to deal at the deadline. Not only is he an impending free agent, but he's in the middle of a career year. Escobar's current OPS, .852, is nearly 100 points higher than he's posted in any other season and 130 points higher than his career mark.

UPDATE: He's not making it any easier to say goodbye ...

The Twins were riding high on the heels of an impressive 2-1 win at Boston last night, but their playoff odds still sat at just 1.6 percent, per FanGraphs. They are seven games back of Cleveland, who recently took measures to build up its biggest weakness.

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170 Comments

Could be valuable players in the future but it also mean were putting of having contending team again looking to the future when you trade for prospects. This front office has yet to sign deal to keep control of young talent here for the long term. The question will be if they are of mind to never to do that just continue trading for future talent. If the latter is the case we never have team that will make real deep run at the playoffs. I look at this years club by time Sano and Buxton if they develop they will be in their final years of control guess what we will be trading them for the future. Same thing will happen to Rosario and Kepler were chewing up team control without developing winnner. It just happen to Dozier and Escobar. Its close to happening with Gibson wouldn't be surprised we end up trading him yet before season done. It looks to me they are blowing up team again to start all over again hoping Buxton and Sano can create winner as soon as 2020 or we will start again.

By next year we will have lost Dozier, Escobar, Pressely, Gibson, Mauer,Santana, Duke, Rodney, and possibly Morrison. That means we have lost our 1, 2, and 3 baseman, our 2 and 3 starting pitchers; Closer, eighth inning reliever, and left hand specialist. If were building from within it also means we will be calling up whole lot of minor league players for next year not a formula to win immediately they will have learn to play in big leagues. Will make for affordable ball club with huge amount of salary gone will be back 50 to 60 million in payroll one of the lowest paid teams in MLB. Everyone complained about Terry Ryan being cheap but look this front office is no different because it set by ownership on philosophy of how this team is going to be run. Another prediction I have is that Levine will be gone before next year because there are couple of opportunities coming for him this coming year. At sometimeif were going to have real contender were going to need to invest in some ball players who are going to be leaders of this ball club. The Twins just surrendered rest of the year to Vikings for press not that Vikings have been winners on that front before. The Twins will be little blip on the sports coverage now that surrendered for the year and are trading away players that fans come to see play the game. Also look at the schedule its all with AL central teams mostly or teams with bottom of their divisions not strong drawing card. I hate to be so negative but its hard to know that players like Escobar are gone one the players you like to watch and play. ITs been struggle this year as it has been with way this team has played. I thought some of the signings were going to be help but Morrisson signing has sure been bust how much worse could have been just to play Kenney Vargas there. It seems his numbers year before on part time basis were just as good or better. I am truly disgusted with this year and loosing faith in the Twins management because were getting same results over and over. Terry Ryan was fired because the Twins needed to modernize and I have seen where things have changed but were still getting same results players are not developing and have regressed or not developed I wonder why we haven't hit on some our top draft picks like other clubs have. Just some things to ponder.

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Fritzderkat
Jul 28 2018 01:27 PM

There have been many times during the 15 years I've been following the Twins when I have looked on in amazement at what I've considered the mistakes, gaffes and half-ass decisions they've made, nearly always at the hands of whomever is staffing their front office.

Only occasionally have they done anything that actually pissed me off.

With the Escobar trade, I'm seriously pissed. 

I'm so pissed that I hardly care what happens to them the rest of this season, and if Sano and Buxton don;t start playing like legitimate major leaguers, the crux of the plan for the past five years is about to go south, and it will be years before they can field a ball club that is good enough to contend.

I've asked before what there is about them that has been consistent during this time, and time and again I come up with one thought: the Pohlads.

So who gets first dibs on the nickname "The Missile" - Gabriel Maciel or international signee Urbina Misael?

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lukeduke1980
Jul 28 2018 02:33 PM
I think the wonder twins are eager to tear things down to make it their team. i was looking forward to going to a couple of games yet where the team had a punchers chance even if it meant finishing strongly at 79-83 with most core pieces coming back next year healthy and ready to go. I don't think we'll see that now, and you won't see me at target field.
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Fritzderkat
Jul 28 2018 03:27 PM

I wrap it up like this.

On the same day they deal Escobar, Belisle is still around and gives up a walk-off in the 10th.

That's what I call ironic. They ought to put it in the 2018 highlights vid.

 .

 

 

 

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Carole Keller
Jul 28 2018 03:52 PM

Esco in the DBacks lineup tonight:

    • Danchat likes this

I respect the decision to get something rather than nothing for a pending free agent. But I don't agree that there's no downside because we can still sign him next year anyway. He's not coming back.

 

If they wanted to sign him, it would have made much more sense to extend him in the off season, or even midseason, than to pay peak market rate in an auction. I

 

So I see the logic in this decision, but that doesn't mean it was not the only option. It may be the right choice now that his contineud elite performance has pushed him out of our price range. But it looks like extending him for three years at the end of last season might have been a very wise investment.

 

If he regresses to a utility infielder again, they gambled and won. If his league-leading doubles are not a mirage, it was a missed opportunity to add a real building block.

 

People say we can just swap in Nick Gordon, but if Nick Gordon turns into a league average player, he will have beaten the odds. Who has the better chance to lead the league in doubles, Nick Gordon, or a guy who's actually done it before?

 

Gordon will cost less, but that's his only superior attribute. I would not have been at all sad to see the Twins spend some money and keep them both. Even if Sano's hitting rebounds he will probably move DH or 1B. So there is room in the infield for Escobar, Polanco, and Gordon to all start.

 

Imagine having Escobar locked up for three more years. That would have some value, too. And if done a year or more ago, would have been a steal. 

 

If they had no intention of signing Escobar anyway, this trade was obviously the right thing to do. Just don't get your hopes up that he's coming back this off-season. He'll be getting starter money somewhere, unless he turns back into a pumpkin.

 

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he'll continue to rake, and the Twins will sign him back anyway, at market rate for an elite starting infielder. But realistically, I think the time to resign him has passed. If they wanted him, they would have done so already, not waited to get in a bidding war.

 

Given that he was gone at the end of the year anyway, this trade was the right choice. But the decision not to resign him when he was cheaper may turn out to be a huge missed opportunity.

 

It also might not. Maybe this is a classic sell-high move. But he sure looks pretty good to me. I know I'll miss him, whether he becomes a star or not.

 

Sorry if this is coming out too negative. I am not knocking Falvey and Levine. I think they handled this very well. There was no time I was shouting at my computer for them to do something else. I didn't know Escobar would do this either. I'm just in mourning a little. I agree with all the sound arguments why this was a smart move, exept one -- that we can still sign him back this offseason. I think it's over, and I'm in mourning over that. But they need to make the tough calls, and stocking the farm is the right thing to do. I'm just sad, and fear we could really miss the little guy for years to come.

 

 

I respect the decision to get something rather than nothing for a pending free agent. But I don't agree that there's no downside because we can still sign him next year anyway. He's not coming back.

 

If they wanted to sign him, it would have made much more sense to extend him in the off season, or even midseason, than to pay peak market rate in an auction. I

 

So I see the logic in this decision, but that doesn't mean it was not the only option. It may be the right choice now that his contineud elite performance has pushed him out of our price range. But it looks like extending him for three years at the end of last season might have been a very wise investment.

 

If he regresses to a utility infielder again, they gambled and won. If his league-leading doubles are not a mirage, it was a missed opportunity to add a real building block.

 

People say we can just swap in Nick Gordon, but if Nick Gordon turns into a league average player, he will have beaten the odds. Who has the better chance to lead the league in doubles, Nick Gordon, or a guy who's actually done it before?

 

Gordon will cost less, but that's his only superior attribute. I would not have been at all sad to see the Twins spend some money and keep them both. Even if Sano's hitting rebounds he will probably move DH or 1B. So there is room in the infield for Escobar, Polanco, and Gordon to all start.

 

Imagine having Escobar locked up for three more years. That would have some value, too. And if done a year or more ago, would have been a steal. 

 

If they had no intention of signing Escobar anyway, this trade was obviously the right thing to do. Just don't get your hopes up that he's coming back this off-season. He'll be getting starter money somewhere, unless he turns back into a pumpkin.

 

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he'll continue to rake, and the Twins will sign him back anyway, at market rate for an elite starting infielder. But realistically, I think the time to resign him has passed. If they wanted him, they would have done so already, not waited to get in a bidding war.

 

Given that he was gone at the end of the year anyway, this trade was the right choice. But the decision not to resign him when he was cheaper may turn out to be a huge missed opportunity.

 

It also might not. Maybe this is a classic sell-high move. But he sure looks pretty good to me. I know I'll miss him, whether he becomes a star or not.

 

Sorry if this is coming out too negative. I am not knocking Falvey and Levine. I think they handled this very well. There was no time I was shouting at my computer for them to do something else. I didn't know Escobar would do this either. I'm just in mourning a little. I agree with all the sound arguments why this was a smart move, exept one -- that we can still sign him back this offseason. I think it's over, and I'm in mourning over that. But they need to make the tough calls, and stocking the farm is the right thing to do. I'm just sad, and fear we could really miss the little guy for years to come.

 

I haven't read anyone say Gordon is ready, or as good right now, that he can be plugged in.

 

And, there is zero reason they can't sign him in the off season, if they offer the most or near most money, if he really likes MN.......they have more money to play with next year than they can possibly spend.

 

As for not extending him before, I'm not sure when you'd extend a utility infielder for a number he would take. You'd have to get awfully lucky to guess he'd hit this well, imo.

 

That said, it is frustrating to have them sell off a player, but if Sano hits when he comes back, he won't play much this year anyway (unless they bench their DH or something).

    • Carole Keller and Dman like this

 

With the Escobar trade, I'm seriously pissed.

Can I ask why? They're trading 2 months of Escobar for 3 prospects. Why do we need to keep Eduardo here for the next two months? The likelihood of us catching the Indians is slim to none. Now Eddie gets to play for a contender and we get some lottery tickets who could help us in the future. I don't see what the problem is. Escobar can still be re-signed, but it's also possible they don't plan on bringing him back, so at least they've got something for him.

 

I respect the decision to get something rather than nothing for a pending free agent. But I don't agree that there's no downside because we can still sign him next year anyway. He's not coming back.

 

If they wanted to sign him, it would have made much more sense to extend him in the off season, or even midseason, than to pay peak market rate in an auction.

 

What if Dozier's agent was a little aggressive in the numbers on the extension?  

 

What if they would still like to sign Dozier to an FA Deal?

 

Wouldn't signing Escobar to an extension be insulting to Dozier? 

 

There are reasons why clubs don't do a lot of negotiating on extensions during the season. 

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Carole Keller
Jul 28 2018 06:37 PM

What if Dozier's agent was a little aggressive in the numbers on the extension?  
 
What if they would still like to sign Dozier to an FA Deal?
 
Wouldn't signing Escobar to an extension be insulting to Dozier? 
 
There are reasons why clubs don't do a lot of negotiating on extensions during the season.


Do you really think that they wouldn’t negotiate an extension with one player because of the feelings of another? I hope not.
    • Mike Sixel, Twins33 and Danchat like this

 

Do you really think that they wouldn’t negotiate an extension with one player because of the feelings of another? I hope not.

 

I think the reason they don't negotiate during the season is because the agents will bump the price during every hot streak but honestly I have no idea because I've never negotiated a major league contract.

 

However, teams typically do not negotiate during the season and they usually say something about it being a distraction. 

 

Believing that someone else could be upset over another getting an extension is a lot easier to believe than players being distracted by... (insert whatever theory here)? 

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Carole Keller
Jul 28 2018 06:57 PM

I think the reason they don't negotiate during the season is because the agents will bump the price during every hot streak but honestly I have no idea because I've never negotiated a major league contract.
 
However, teams typically do not negotiate during the season and they usually say something about it being a distraction. 
 
Believing that someone else could be upset over another getting an extension is a lot easier to believe than players being distracted by... (insert whatever theory here)?


I get the distraction part and agree. And yes, it can be a distraction on many levels. But that wasn’t what you said. I was questoning not negotiating an extension with one player because of the feelings of another.

 

I get the distraction part and agree. And yes, it can be a distraction on many levels. But that wasn’t what you said. I was questoning not negotiating an extension with one player because of the feelings of another.

 

During the season... that is what I meant. 

 

http://www.eagletrib...e2095f2397.html

 

 

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Carole Keller
Jul 28 2018 07:05 PM

During the season... that is what I meant. 
 
http://www.eagletrib...e2095f2397.html


Yeah, I get that. Again, not my question. It was the reason for it I question. If that’s the reason for not ... because of one player’s feelings ... that’s what I was questioning.

Dozier January 20th

 

https://www.mlb.com/...ins/c-265076680

 

Dozier March 5th


http://www.espn.com/...ota-twinsDozier March 5th

 

I know Dozier loves Escobar and they are great friends but imagine his reaction to Escobar getting an extension after a hot 1st half of 2018 in consideration of Brian Dozier's past 3 years. 

 

I've seen normal people completely shut down over a $20 reimbursement. 

 

 

 

Yeah, I get that. Again, not my question. It was the reason for it I question. If that’s the reason for not ... because of one player’s feelings ... that’s what I was questioning.

 

I am saying that (during the season) I believe it is quite possible that teams will not negotiate with one player because another player's feeling will get hurt.

 

Yes I am saying that. 

 

I believe that there is nuance and nothing is cut and dried but I believe it would be smart to have a general rule to not negotiate during the season and the primary reason for that rule is because somebody either the player involved or the guy in the locker room next to the player involved may end up acting like a jealous brat and I believe that it has probably happened numerous times in the sport we love before front offices just pulled the plug on it.  

 

 

 

MLB pipeline post trades Twin's prospect rankings:
Jorge Alcala #11-RHP
Gilberto Celestino #14-OF
Gabriel Maciel #17-OF
Jhoan Duran #22-RHP

In the era of HR or K, the 2 OFs don't fit the mode.They are more like Buxton.Is the FO starting a do opposite strategy? Twins lack power in the minors outside Kirilloff and Rooker.  

I'm ok, Escobar trade he's a rental, but regarding Pressly or potential Gibson trade, 
they need quality instead quantity.The surplus of prospects does not help much they are not marketable trading pieces

They to need sign Esco as FA.Twins rank 24th in HR hit and looks to get worst in 2019 w/o Esco & Dozier.  


 

 

Yeah I noticed in the draft the Twins seem to really be looking for bat to ball skills and approach.Kind of Lamonte Wade type hitters.Having a good eye at the plate allows a player to be productive without even getting a hit. They are looking for power (i.e. hard hit rate see Trevor Larnach) as well but that is harder to find with that approach. 

 

While athleticism in nice and can't be taught if you can't hit the ball it is hard to be productive on offense.Personally I think taking guys with a strong hit tool early is a good strategy as it maximizes the odds of the player working out in the long run.  

 

It looks like they focused in on those types of players in their trades as well and the three position players they received have good plate discipline and batting averages but not great power potential.

    • Twins33 likes this
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yarnivek1972
Jul 28 2018 07:48 PM
I think a team saying they don’t want the distraction of negotiating midseason is bunk. It’s usually the team’s way of saying they don’t want player X back. I know it’s quite awhile ago now, but at least one of Brad Radke’s contracts was extended midseason. I seem to recall Tom Prince too. I could be thinking someone else. My point being, if the team truly wants a player, they will make what they feel is a fair offer no matter when it is. If the player chooses not to respond, that is their business.

 

I think a team saying they don’t want the distraction of negotiating midseason is bunk. It’s usually the team’s way of saying they don’t want player X back. I know it’s quite awhile ago now, but at least one of Brad Radke’s contracts was extended midseason. I seem to recall Tom Prince too. I could be thinking someone else. My point being, if the team truly wants a player, they will make what they feel is a fair offer no matter when it is. If the player chooses not to respond, that is their business.

 

How about Johan?

 

http://www.espn.com/...tory?id=2745346


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