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Game Thread: Twins vs. Seattle, 4/10/21 @ 1:10pm

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 03:22 PM
Welcome back to the Twins Daily game thread party! After a rare Friday night off the Minnesota Twins will take on the Seattle Mariners t...
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Morneau

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 02:09 PM
I thought he was was really good last year. Maybe I'm on an opening day high (Not high) but he is so good.Who would have thought he would...
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The 5 Rule Draft

Twins Minor League Talk Today, 01:52 PM
This year's Rule 5 draft we lost Akil Baddo and Tyler Wells. So I thought I'd check to see how they were doing. 1st I checked on Baddo, h...
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Ex Twins in 2021: Where Are They Now?

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 12:19 PM
One of my favorite annual threads on the site. Let’s stay updated on ex-Twins in the news... This is a start of a list, and feel free to...
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2021 MLB (non-Twins) Season news

Other Baseball Today, 09:54 AM
A thread for news from around Major League Baseball. Tonight in L.A., the Angels will forego their DH in order to let Shohei Ohtani both...
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MIN 2, MIL 0: Take a Bow, José Berríos

José Berríos pitched six no-hit innings with 12 strikeouts before Rocco Baldelli turned Saturday night’s game over to the bullpen. Come read all about it in tonight’s game recap.
Image courtesy of © Jeff Hanisch-USA TODAY Sports
Box Score
Berríos: 6.0 IP, 0 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 12 K
Home Runs: Buxton (2)
Top 3 WPA: Berríos .366, Buxton .168, Rogers .111
Win Probability Chart (via FanGraphs):
Attached Image: chart.png

Everyone has at least one sports moment that is imprinted in their memory.

For those who fancy themselves as fans of the Minnesota Twins, these moments usually come in the form of Games. Game 163. Game 6. Game 7.

Saturday night, we witnessed another one of those Games, however, this one won’t be remembered for its numerical value. This one will forever be remembered as The José Berríos Game.

Berríos was hot from the start, averaging 95.3 mph on his four-seam fastball through the first two innings and touching 96 mph on multiple occasions. For much of last season as well as the later half of the 2019 season, Berríos’ velocity would tend to dip beginning around the fourth inning. That was not an issue Saturday night, however, as his fastball sat 95 all night in addition to a sinker that averaged 94.7 mph, according to Baseball Savant.



Berríos combined his fastball velocity masterfully with a devastating curveball and occasional changeup to keep the Brewers’ hitters on their heels all night. He exited after 84 pitches and six innings of ace-level pitching, accumulating 12 strikeouts and zero walks, as well as a 50% overall Whiff% and 34.9 WPA, along the way.



Unfortunately for the Twins, Milwaukee Brewers’ starter Corbin Burnes also brought his A-game. Like his Minnesota counterpart, Burnes was nasty from the opening frame, touching 99 mph with his sinker and 98 with his cutter.

Burnes is atypical in the current age of MLB as he has a legitimate five-pitch arsenal, all five of which he can employ to strikeout opposing hitters. The Twins found this out the hard way, as they struck out 11 times and did not register a hit.

That is until Byron Buxton came to the plate in the top of the seventh inning.



Buxton’s second home run of the season broke up Burnes' no-hitter and ended his night. While not as visually impressive as his 456-foot bomb Thursday afternoon, Buxton’s home run to center field in the middle of a no-hitter was perhaps just as impressive.



The Brewers’ broke up the Twins’ no-hitter when Omar Narváez laced a single off Tyler Duffey in the eighth inning. (Taylor Rogers entered the game in place of Berríos in the seventh inning and struck out the side.) Minnesota added a second run in the eighth inning on a Luis Arráez single that brought in Andrelton Simmons.

In all, the Twins struck out 17 Milwaukee batters Saturday night - in recompense for the 17 strikeouts they suffered at the hands of the Brewers on opening night - and did not walk any in what was arguably one of the most dominant nights of pitching in franchise history.

The Twins and Brewers will be back in action on Sunday afternoon when Michael Pineda and Adrian Houser face off with the series on the line. First pitch is scheduled for 1:10 p.m.

Postgame With Berríos

Bullpen Usage Spreadsheet
Attached Image: Bullpen.png

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82 Comments

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Brock Beauchamp
Apr 05 2021 07:21 AM

Ignoring the assumed knowledge of where the line for manageable is, and what happens when it's crossed, he threw 84 pitches yesterday, which doesn't even put him into the typical workload range. The guy started the season with complete game just a couple years ago but letting him to continue to cruise yesterday was foolish and risky? Disagree.

Ive said multiple times that I would have sent him out for the seventh but no way am I running him up over 100 pitches in his first start after the weirdness of 2020. It may be a small risk to leave him out there but it’s still a risk and with 161 left to play for a contending team, I’m fine with the manager being quite risk-averse with his second-best pitcher.

And ultimately, it simply didn’t matter. The Twins won the game (and the series) and Berrios is ready to go next time. Why is anyone putting this much emotional energy into a no hitter that doesn’t really matter in a team sport?
    • Squirrel, Major League Ready and Nine of twelve like this

Some may be upset at Rocko yanking Berrios but a no hitter with many pitches thrown can hurt a pitcher more than help. So the question is if a pitcher has a no hitter through 7 innings and has thrown 100 pitches, do you keep him in or pull him? Remember that today's philosophy- for better or worse- is to not let the pitch count get too high. This isn't the 1960s anymore.

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Major League Ready
Apr 05 2021 11:22 AM

 

Ignoring the assumed knowledge of where the line for manageable is, and what happens when it's crossed, he threw 84 pitches yesterday, which doesn't even put him into the typical workload range. The guy started the season with complete game just a couple years ago but letting him to continue to cruise yesterday was foolish and risky? Disagree.

 

This was adeptly worded. Let's just assume the practices every team in the league is adapting is based on assumptions and conjecture. Let's ignore the multitude of medical experts that have been consulting in adapting these practices. Let's assume the teams have not put substantial investment in time and money consulting specialists / medical doctors and are just making up stuff. That's not a foolish assumption at all. I mean ... they did it in the past. They could not have possibly learned anything that would justify changing their practices now.

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KirbyDome89
Apr 06 2021 08:45 PM

 

This was adeptly worded. Let's just assume the practices every team in the league is adapting is based on assumptions and conjecture. Let's ignore the multitude of medical experts that have been consulting in adapting these practices. Let's assume the teams have not put substantial investment in time and money consulting specialists / medical doctors and are just making up stuff. That's not a foolish assumption at all. I mean ... they did it in the past. They could not have possibly learned anything that would justify changing their practices now.

That's an interesting twist on what I actually posted. Rather than making assumptions about points I didn't make, instead, let's assume you're capable of searching through medical journals and finding peer reviewed articles that are comfortable making any sort of concrete statement when it comes to pitch counts, and then show me that Berrios was maxed out at 84. That is the bar you've chosen to set after all.

 

Save everybody the time reading your replies and just copy paste "They know more than us," in every thread...

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KirbyDome89
Apr 06 2021 08:53 PM

 

Ive said multiple times that I would have sent him out for the seventh but no way am I running him up over 100 pitches in his first start after the weirdness of 2020. It may be a small risk to leave him out there but it’s still a risk and with 161 left to play for a contending team, I’m fine with the manager being quite risk-averse with his second-best pitcher.

And ultimately, it simply didn’t matter. The Twins won the game (and the series) and Berrios is ready to go next time. Why is anyone putting this much emotional energy into a no hitter that doesn’t really matter in a team sport?

I didn't have a problem with it a few years ago; I certainly wouldn't have decried Berrios getting a similar opportunity the other day. 

 

I know you don't actually believe individual awards/accomplishments don't matter to these guys. Yes, it's a team sport, but I can't imagine a single pitcher would tell you they wouldn't want the opportunity to achieve something rare such as a no hitter at the major league level. 

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Major League Ready
Apr 07 2021 07:00 AM

 

That's an interesting twist on what I actually posted. Rather than making assumptions about points I didn't make, instead, let's assume you're capable of searching through medical journals and finding peer reviewed articles that are comfortable making any sort of concrete statement when it comes to pitch counts, and then show me that Berrios was maxed out at 84. That is the bar you've chosen to set after all.

 

Save everybody the time reading your replies and just copy paste "They know more than us," in every thread...

 

You are right about one thing, I have not accessed medical journals in arriving at an opinion. I would add that I don’t have access to the medical professionals who advise the Twins. I would also add that I have not been in the numerous meeting the Twins have had on this topic. I also have not been in the meetings or consultations with medical experts specific to the course of action they recommend given the short season last year. You are actually understating how little I know or how little all of us know relative to the people making the decisions. The difference in our positions is I know what I don’t know.

 

Not only do you not have all the information but your logic of he did a couple years ago does not consider the highly unusual circumstances of last year. How many pitches did he throw in that game you used as your justification for him going on? Did he throw 125-130 pitches which is the pace he was on to pitch 9 innings? Even if he did there is just no way any competent FO / manager and/or pitching coach would let him go 125+ pitches on opening night after last year so I don't see your point unless they let him throw 140+ pitches in the start you reference. He was not finishing that game unless he had three (5-7) pitch innings in a row so why are we debating this decision.

 

    • Brock Beauchamp likes this
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KirbyDome89
Apr 07 2021 04:01 PM

 

You are right about one thing, I have not accessed medical journals in arriving at an opinion. I would add that I don’t have access to the medical professionals who advise the Twins. I would also add that I have not been in the numerous meeting the Twins have had on this topic. I also have not been in the meetings or consultations with medical experts specific to the course of action they recommend given the short season last year. You are actually understating how little I know or how little all of us know relative to the people making the decisions. The difference in our positions is I know what I don’t know.

 

Not only do you not have all the information but your logic of he did a couple years ago does not consider the highly unusual circumstances of last year. How many pitches did he throw in that game you used as your justification for him going on? Did he throw 125-130 pitches which is the pace he was on to pitch 9 innings? Even if he did there is just no way any competent FO / manager and/or pitching coach would let him go 125+ pitches on opening night after last year so I don't see your point unless they let him throw 140+ pitches in the start you reference. He was not finishing that game unless he had three (5-7) pitch innings in a row so why are we debating this decision.

No, the difference is I'm not using speculation about no hitters ruining entire careers and suspect association claims regarding the medical necessity to remove him from in game, in an effort to rationalize the decision. As far as I know the only things I pointed to were his low pitch count relative to a "normal range," and the decision of the current manager and FO to let him throw over 100 pitches in a CG to begin the season a few years ago. Again, if you're just going to appeal to authority posting in dedicated fan threads seems like an odd choice.

 

When does 2020 become an example of "if you give them an excuse they'll use it?" Honestly. He made starts all through the shortened regular season & brief postseason, he went through an offseason routine, he had a normal ST, and he isn't coming back from any sort of injury/surgery ect. At some point it's 2021. Numbers like 125, 130, (140?) ect aren't really relevant because they took him out at 84, while he was mowing down that Brewers lineup. Maybe he continues on that pace which would put him right around his CG pitch total after 8 innings. Maybe he gets a couple quick outs. Maybe he starts to labor or gives up a hit. The point is, he wasn't afforded to opportunity for any of the above scenarios to play out.