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Hypothetical rule change: remove DH when pitcher is removed

Other Baseball Today, 02:51 PM
I just read this potential rule change on Twitter and I am intrigued:   https://twitter.com/...4091739136?s=20     For th...
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Fangraphs Top 50 Free Agents

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 11:23 AM
Here is the link to their Top 50 Free Agent List with player write ups, community estimated contracts and Fangraphs estimated contracts....
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White Sox make changes

Other Baseball Today, 02:51 PM
Both Manager Rick Rentaria and pitching coach Don Cooper were let go.     Was a bit surprised by this, because the White S...
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What can Morton be had for?

Minnesota Twins Talk Yesterday, 08:55 PM
https://www.thescore...lb/news/2045846
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What to do with Lewis Thorpe?

Minnesota Twins Talk Today, 02:51 PM
Lewis Thorpe is out of options. The Twins either need to keep him on the MLB team as their 5th starter or as a reliever out of the bullpe...
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HOU 3, MIN 1: Hello Darkness, My Old Friend

Make it 18 straight losses. The Twins got to play a team that had a losing record in the regular season and still managed to get swept. Their commitment to extending this streak is unwavering. The Twins mustered just one run again today.

Pain.
Image courtesy of Chart via FanGraphs
Box Score
Berríos: 5 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 4 K
Home Runs: None
Bottom 3 WPA: Kepler -.128, Jeffers -.125, Rogers -.123

Jose Berrios came to play with his best stuff early. Through three innings, Berrios was perfect, and he only needed 29 pitches to get those nine very quick outs. Berrios made an excellent defensive play on an attempted bunt single by Kyle Tucker in the second. With the left-handed pull shift on, Berrios knew he was the only defender to cover that play, and he made it look easy.

After two more quick outs in the fourth, the Astros put together a two-out rally. It started with walks to both Michael Brantley and Alex Bregman, before a weakly hit ball off the bat of Kyle Tucker found a hole in the Twins shift, bring Brantley around to score the first run of the game. Berrios was able to get Yuli Gurriel to ground out to third to end the inning.

Berrios had another strong inning in the fifth. After surrendering a leadoff single to Carlos Correa in the inning, Berrios locked in and kept Correa from even advancing to second before getting out of the inning. Despite looking great through five, and only throwing 75 pitches, Rocco Baldelli decided that was enough from Berrios for the game, as he went to Cody Stashek in the pen to start the sixth.

The Twins bats found themselves in a very similar situation to yesterday’s game in the first toady. With two outs in the inning, they loaded the bases and appeared primed to strike early. This time, the batter was Alex Kiriloff, who was making his MLB debut in a pivotal spot in the Postseason. Kirilloff was able to put a good swing on the ball, but just missed it a bit and hit a lazy flyball out to center. Kirilloff came up again in the fourth and picked up his first major league hit on a 105 MPH line drive to right-field.



It wasn’t until the fifth inning that the Twins bats were finally able to scratch across a run. Marwin Gonzalez was given credit for a single after reaching on what was a tough play for Jose Altuve at second. Ryan Jeffers then followed that up by striking out looking on a 3-2 pitch that was clearly out of the zone. Luis Arraez then drew a one out walk, before Max Kepler also went down looking. Now with two outs, Nelson Cruz came up big in an eerily similar way to how the Twins scored their lone run yesterday. This time it was a pulled double over the left-fielders head that bounced of the wall, and then back over the left-fielders head back towards the field. Gonzalez came around to score the tying run easily, but then Luis Arraez was nailed at the plate trying to score the go-ahead run to end the inning.

The controversy of the game came in Eddie Rosario’s leadoff at-bat in the sixth. With a three one count, Rosario drew what appeared to be a pretty clear walk. However, home plate umpire Manny Gonzalez did not see it that way, and called it strike two. Eddie Rosario was visibly upset with the strike call and had a few words with Gonzalez. Rosario wound up striking out on a foul tip a couple pitches later and let Manny Gonzalez have it. This led to Gonzalez ejecting Rosario from the game. Earlier in the game, it was Astros hitter George Springer who had words with Gonzalez after a missed strike three call. Here is the replay of both situations, so you can decide for yourself how they were handled by home plate umpire Manny Gonzalez.





Just as typically the case with the Twins in the Postseason, once something bad happens, things start to go really bad for them. After Cody Stashak pitched a scoreless sixth, he appeared on his way to a scoreless seventh as well getting both Kyle Tucker and Yuli Gurriel out to begin the inning, before he left a hanging slider up to Carlos Correa and he did not miss it, sending it flying over the wall in left-centerfield, giving the Astros the 2-1 lead.

In the bottom of the eighth, Nelson Cruz was able to draw a two out walk, and was the pinch ran for by Byron Buxton. Jake Cave then came up, after replacing Eddie Rosario in the lineup, and put together a very good plate appearance, before swinging and missing at what was clearly ball four for the second out of the inning. Then with Miguel Sano up, and a chance to take the lead with one swing of the bat, Buxton got caught leaning and was picked off to end the inning.

Taylor Rogers came in to pitch the ninth inning for the Twins, to try and keep it a 2-1 ballgame. That move immediately backfired, as Rogers gave up a walk and two singles, and just like that the Astros had increased their lead. Tyler Duffey then came in to relieve Rogers, and did a great job not allowing the Astros to score any more runs. However, it was all for not, as the Twins went down 1-2-3 in the ninth, and just as quickly as it started, the Twins Postseason was over.

Postgame Pint
Check out tonight’s episode of Twins Daily’s Postgame Pint live stream on YouTube or Facebook.

Bullpen Usage Spreadsheet
Attached Image: Bullpen.png

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30 Comments

Three times this basic group of core Twins have weakly bowed out of the playoffs in the opening round. Does that cause the FO to shake up the core some?

    • jun likes this
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Tom Froemming
Sep 30 2020 03:05 PM

 

Three times this basic group of core Twins have weakly bowed out of the playoffs in the opening round. Does that cause the FO to shake up the core some?

I would.

    • jun, IndyTwinsFan and Twinsrule1991 like this
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twinssporto
Sep 30 2020 03:11 PM

So pathetic I could puke.

No spark, no nothing.

Lifeless as usual.

    • IndyTwinsFan and Twinsrule1991 like this

I would break up the core too.Too mentally weak to be successful in the post-season (with a few exceptions).Some of those extensions might not look so good pretty soon.

    • jun, IndyTwinsFan and Twinsrule1991 like this

 

I would break up the core too.Too mentally weak to be successful in the post-season (with a few exceptions).Some of those extensions might not look so good pretty soon.

Worst part is, you still have to watch 162 games to find out the same guys are still too scared to play in the postseason 

    • mikelink45 and IndyTwinsFan like this
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terrydactyls1947
Sep 30 2020 03:25 PM

Questions for the off-season:

 

1.Can Sano be salvaged or is he done?

2.Who to get rid off outright?Gonzales, Astudillo, Adrienza, Avila, Romo, ?

3.Who to trade?Rosario, Thorpe, Smeltzer??

4.What else?It's officially the off-season......

    • TopGunn#22 likes this

It would ease the pain a little bit to see the hitting coach fired immediately

    • ashbury, jun and Twinsrule1991 like this

I would.


Concur. We will have plenty of time to discuss in the coming months, but I think we will need to clear out the gluttonous amount of LH hitting corner OF. Perhaps 1 or 2 veterans are included in that purge.
    • wsnydes likes this
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Twinsrule1991
Sep 30 2020 03:46 PM

 

Questions for the off-season:

 

1.Can Sano be salvaged or is he done?

2.Who to get rid off outright?Gonzales, Astudillo, Adrienza, Avila, Romo, ?

3.Who to trade?Rosario, Thorpe, Smeltzer??

4.What else?It's officially the off-season......

I think every name you mentioned will not be on this team next year.

    • heresthething and MNT1996 like this
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lukeduke1980
Sep 30 2020 05:04 PM
I'm cold on some previously untouchables, as their regular season approach wasn't any better than post season.

Two of the most unsatisfying, unwatchable, disappointing post season games yet. What did the Twins do right? Pretty much nothing. Nellie drove in both runs. The starters pitched well but not long enough...thank you Rocco. Past that, they were collectively awful.

 

I don't understand removing Cruz for Buxton and then yet again, not having Buxton move....until he gets picked off with 2 outs. Why didn't he run, first pitch? If he couldn't run, why put him in. Byron did not have a good final week...the beaning didn't help, but he didn't help much.

the bullpen was...lets be kind....not good. And Romo and Rogers did what they did a lot during the season....come in and give up untimely runs. Romo Was out of the strike zone but all he had to do with a 2-2 count on a hitter doing nothing was let him hit. Instead he threw on practically in the dirt and then high out of the zone to walk in the go ahead run.

Rogers job was to keep the deficit at 1...within 3 batters the deficit was 2.

 

When you watched the dejected team leave the dugout Sunday, even after learning they won the Division (by default) you could almost sense they weren't well. 3 straight home losses...all ugly....all poorly played....all very winnable.

 

Twins deserved to lose this series, by the way they played. But there was no reasonable way to think they couldn't beat a Houston team that wasn't very good.

turns out, it was the Twins who were not very good....a pretty much team and manager effort. There are no excuses, even with Donaldson and Buxton not healthy. It was a brutally sad way to end the season. Why are we always the first team eliminated?

    • jun and mikelink45 like this
18 games in a row. Thats hard to believe as my team has nationwide announcers believing the Padres with no good pitching left are the eventual WS winners.

Developing pitching every year. Good pitching almost always stops good hitting.

Andrew - did you draw the short straw?What a painful game to recap.No one in Twins land can be happy.Two pitchers - Maeda and Berrios did well and should have pitched longer and one old guy got two doubles and drove in all the runs.So where are the bombas?Maybe getting a hit is not so old school as the Twins seem to think.The Astros got those "lucky" hits and keep on going.  

 

But we stick with the formula - Romo and Rogers at the end of games was a farce.I do not want them to fail, but when they are in seasons like this they should only pitch in blow outs.  

 

We dreamt of a Rosario, Kepler, Buxton OF to lead us to the promised land.Has that dream vanished?What next?  

 

Is Donaldson going to earn his millions or will this be the next sad story line. 

 

And then there is Kiriloff who was put into a terrible position.We could not play him the last week of the season, but we can start him in the most crucial game.

 

So many regrets and such a disappointment. 

 

Three times this basic group of core Twins have weakly bowed out of the playoffs in the opening round. Does that cause the FO to shake up the core some?

Again Rocco pulled the starter too early just like last game. Some of the players need to be let go or traded. Polanco, Rosario, Garver and Rogers need to be sent elsewhere. Say byebye to Romo. Sign Clippard, May and Wisler. Sign a good closer. Sign a good defensive catcher. Promote top 5 prospects aggressively. Let Rooker play regularly. Don't be afraid of letting Sano or any key player ride the bench if he struggles consistently.

    • GNess likes this

 

It would ease the pain a little bit to see the hitting coach fired immediately

I wouldn't mind seeing Rocco gone.

 

 

Last year when the Twins won 101 games they were 7 below .500 against teams who were above .500.

Shouldn't this have been an opportunity last offseason to say you know you keep those players that do well against winning teams and trade those who do not to see what we can get. Why because you have to face those teams from other divisions that are beating up bad Central division teams.

I'm not sure, also, the love for Maeda. First half very good in his career second half bullpen pitcher. The Dodgers aren't stupid. Looks like Garver has little trade value now. Nelson Cruz my favourite player of yours who could have caught a game tying triple in the 2011 World Series makes me wonder if he returned to the juice.

Josh Donaldson is always a rupture away from a career ending season.

Minor league pitching ddevelopment emphasis. Homer Bailey I expected that. Rich Hill well he will be 41. I would get you pitching from Maeda with that contract.

Oh, well my team has young pitching with arm surgeries every year. Keep bringing up more. I'm surprised Berrios isn't hurt ever in this era.

salt in the wound: was dwiving in my cawr...turned on the wadio...to the Beatles Channel and what was playing? I'm a Loser.

 

Geez.

    • h2oface likes this

I’m not up on the prospects...do they twins have enough legitimate prospects currently in the system whom they could have contribute soon?

salt in the wound: was dwiving in my cawr...turned on the wadio...to the Beatles Channel and what was playing? I'm a Loser.

Geez.


Although unlike the titular loser of that song, our Twins are exactly who they appear to be.
    • ashbury likes this
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launchingthrees
Sep 30 2020 08:58 PM

 

Questions for the off-season:

 

1.Can Sano be salvaged or is he done?

 

 

I don't care too much either way. I'm just tired of watching him strike out. It's not fun

 

I also think it's time to end the Polanco at SS experiment. He doesn't hit well enough to cover his bad defense. Bring up Lewis, Arraez at 2nd. Polanco will be a serviceable utility man.

Concur. We will have plenty of time to discuss in the coming months, but I think we will need to clear out the gluttonous amount of LH hitting corner OF. Perhaps 1 or 2 veterans are included in that purge.

Eddie is probably as good as gone. If they believe Kirilloff could start today, they think he can start on opening day next season and Eddie is the odd man out there.

It's 100%, on the manager.Unless the manager is fired, I want nothing to do with the Twins.At least I remember '87 and '91.They can't take that away from me!

I blows me away that it took them all year, until this last game to take a look at Kirilloff (one r, two Ls, two fs, please, it's not that hard). There were countless opportunities.

 

Of the 18 losses, the Chump Twins were had the lead in 11/18.

Something I am starting to wonder - if the heavy use of analytics and lack of "going with the gut" is something like Moneyball - fine for the regular season, but not so great for the postseason.Yes, it's fine to pull starters pitching like Maeda and Berrios in June and July but in this situation, don't you want to keep with a good thing?I am not talking of doing a Grady Little here, but don't be scared of that third time through the lineup either just because the computer says so.The only team that has used analytics heavily and won is the Astros, and they needed help to do so.Look at the Nationals last year, the Royals in 2015 (gee, small ball worked for them).Even the Cubs in 2016 didn't rely completely on spreadsheets like the current Twins do. 

 

Something I am starting to wonder - if the heavy use of analytics and lack of "going with the gut" is something like Moneyball - fine for the regular season, but not so great for the postseason.Yes, it's fine to pull starters pitching like Maeda and Berrios in June and July but in this situation, don't you want to keep with a good thing?I am not talking of doing a Grady Little here, but don't be scared of that third time through the lineup either just because the computer says so.The only team that has used analytics heavily and won is the Astros, and they needed help to do so.Look at the Nationals last year, the Royals in 2015 (gee, small ball worked for them).Even the Cubs in 2016 didn't rely completely on spreadsheets like the current Twins do. 

Astros pulled their starters early just like us and swept us on our home field. Yankees pulled their starters early in the 2019 ALDS and swept us. The Nationals didn't pull Scherzer and Strasburg early in 2019, and the Astros/Yankees haven't pulled Cole, but those are $200-300 million pitchers.

 

This isn't even about what philosophy best wins championships -- we can't even win a single game. Gardy had no love for spreadsheets but got us started on playoff losing streaks; meanwhile, the more-Moneyball-than-Moneyball Rays went to the WS back in 2008, swept their opponent this week (pulling their SP at 80-some pitches), and have never been swept in a postseason series. Even the Moneyball-originating Athletics -- while failing to win playoff rounds thus far (aside from sweeping us) -- generally have no trouble winning an occasional playoff game: Oakland has played 9 playoff series in the 21st century, and only been swept once. The 21st century Braves, losers of 9 consecutive playoff series, have never been swept in that streak.

 

Besides, what does pulling your starters and inning or two early have to do with a team batting line of .109/.246/.145 (.392 OPS)?

 

I'm not sure there is any simple explanation, unfortunately.

    • ashbury and TiberTwins like this