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View Full Version : Twins add Paul Molitor to the major league staff!



InfraRen
10-22-2013, 10:21 AM
https://twitter.com/Twins/status/392671833587064832

5882

I like it! Prime him up to take over for Gardy in a couple years?

jm3319
10-22-2013, 10:25 AM
...but can he pitch?

Seth Stohs
10-22-2013, 10:26 AM
According to the Twins:
He will oversee base running, bunting and infield instruction, PLUS assist with in-game strategy.
His last MLB coaching duty was as hitting coach of the Mariners in 2004.

Thrylos
10-22-2013, 10:29 AM
Bet that's all they needed to get to a semi-respectable record
/sarcasm

Seth Stohs
10-22-2013, 10:32 AM
Like the change from Joe Vavra to Tom Brunansky was something that many Twins fans wanted, I'm sure that this addition of Paul Molitor will push the Twins to another World Series title!

I'm actually OK with Molitor. He is very respected by the minor leaguers. He's obviously quite knowledgeable.

JB_Iowa
10-22-2013, 10:35 AM
Another opportunity to add a Spanish-speaking coach who might relate to some of the up and coming players down the drain.

The old boys club lives on (unfortunately their results don't thrive.)

matthew0211
10-22-2013, 10:41 AM
I like Molitor on the staff, but it should be at the expense of Vavra or Ullger with someone from outside brought in as well; this organization needs some new blood in coaching/leadership roles.

InfraRen
10-22-2013, 10:41 AM
5883

Brock Beauchamp
10-22-2013, 10:44 AM
Another opportunity to add a Spanish-speaking coach who might relate to some of the up and coming players down the drain.

The old boys club lives on (unfortunately their results don't thrive.)

Or you could view it as "they added a Hall of Fame player who is one of the smartest hitters of the last generation and is widely respected throughout the league".

Really, I don't see how anyone can complain about this move. Every time I hear Molitor talk about baseball, I leave impressed.

Yeah, it'd be nice to add a Spanish-speaking coach as well but this is Paul Molitor, for Christ's sake. If that guy's available, you hire him. Period.

gunnarthor
10-22-2013, 10:44 AM
I'm ambivalent. I don't really think coaching at the ML level matters that much but I do think the Twins need to bring in some Latino coaches.

I get that a guy like Molitor - HOF player - can relate to guys in ways Vavra etc can't. And if Sano, Buxton etc have an appreciation of baseball history, they'll listen more to him. And he certainly knows a thing or two about baserunning and the "little things" that add up. But he hasn't really coached much and I'm not sure how much he can really help. I wish the Twins would pursue someone like Orlando Cabrera who definitely played baseball the "Twins way" who might be able to make the transition from the minors to the majors easier for guys like Sano, Arcia and Rosario.

Brock Beauchamp
10-22-2013, 10:45 AM
I like Molitor on the staff, but it should be at the expense of Vavra or Ullger with someone from outside brought in as well; this organization needs some new blood in coaching/leadership roles.

Vavra, no. He was a pretty decent hitting coach.

Ullger should have been fired ten years ago.

SpiritofVodkaDave
10-22-2013, 10:52 AM
Is Ullger really hurting anything at this point?
I like bringing Molitor in, alot. Having a guy with a track record like that can be nothing but a positive influence. Also, he battled his demons as a young ball player, with the team about to get extremely young in the next year or two, having a guy like Molitor who can warn about some of the temptations to the youngsters is a GOOD thing IMO.

SweetOne69
10-22-2013, 10:53 AM
I like Molitor on the staff, but it should be at the expense of Vavra or Ullger with someone from outside brought in as well; this organization needs some new blood in coaching/leadership roles.

I agree. With the additions/re-assignments over the last 2 offseasons, only 1 coach was actually let go while 3 have been added. They now have 8 full time coaches on the staff.

SweetOne69
10-22-2013, 10:55 AM
I'm ambivalent. I don't really think coaching at the ML level matters that much but I do think the Twins need to bring in some Latino coaches.

I get that a guy like Molitor - HOF player - can relate to guys in ways Vavra etc can't. And if Sano, Buxton etc have an appreciation of baseball history, they'll listen more to him. And he certainly knows a thing or two about baserunning and the "little things" that add up. But he hasn't really coached much and I'm not sure how much he can really help. I wish the Twins would pursue someone like Orlando Cabrera who definitely played baseball the "Twins way" who might be able to make the transition from the minors to the majors easier for guys like Sano, Arcia and Rosario.

The reason that he hasn't coached was because he wanted to spend time with family after he retired. Now that his kids are older, he wants to get more involved in the game again. He has been a "guest" coach at Spring Training for several years, so it isn't like he has been away completely since he retired.

PseudoSABR
10-22-2013, 11:02 AM
Do they need to make room for Molitor or can they simply add him to the coaches already on the staff?

cmb0252
10-22-2013, 11:03 AM
Another opportunity to add a Spanish-speaking coach who might relate to some of the up and coming players down the drain.

The old boys club lives on (unfortunately their results don't thrive.)

I'm right there with you. The Cubs have come out and said they will higher a coach, at least a bench coach, that is Latin american to help the next wave of talent adjust to the bigs. I love Monitor as much as the next fan but the Twins more than any organization needs fresh blood. Instead this is business as usual.

panolo
10-22-2013, 11:03 AM
I like it!

Any truth to the rumors that he and Gardy don't always see eye to eye?

gunnarthor
10-22-2013, 11:14 AM
I like it!

Any truth to the rumors that he and Gardy don't always see eye to eye?

I doubt it. Molitor wanted to be the manager when Ryan hired Gardy but other than that I don't think there's any bad blood between the two. As mentioned, he's been a pretty consistent presence at ST every year.

Winston Smith
10-22-2013, 11:24 AM
I have nothing against Molitor and he was a great player, however this team really needs a latin presence on it's coaching staff, imo. If they need room Ullger should have been gone years ago.

TRex
10-22-2013, 11:26 AM
When I hear Molitor talk, it sounds like TK to me... he doesn't mince his words and will go after a player with the "drive in two but let in three" comment even after a win.

I wonder how it will go over in the clubhouse to have someone so openly critical (demanding may be a better adjective) be 'under' the rah-rah Gardy. I imagine the play-off between the dour TK and the buddy-buddy Gardenhire worked great, but good-cop/bad-cop always works better if the 'bad cop' is the one in control!

Seth Stohs
10-22-2013, 11:31 AM
I like it!

Any truth to the rumors that he and Gardy don't always see eye to eye?

No two people see eye to eye all the time, but they will work together well. I think they're fairly close and certainly respect each other.

Oldgoat_MN
10-22-2013, 11:32 AM
I don't think hiring Molitor is bad business. I like the move.
Doesn't mean I don't see value in having a Latin American coach as well.

I suspect a team is allowed to hire as many coaches as they want, but I believe there is a limit on how many can be in the dugout during a game.

Does anyone have info on this?

Seth Stohs
10-22-2013, 11:32 AM
Do they need to make room for Molitor or can they simply add him to the coaches already on the staff?

Can simply add him.

Seth Stohs
10-22-2013, 11:33 AM
At the end of spring training last year, MLB said teams could add one on-field coach. So, they can't add an infinite amount, but they were one short.

Seth Stohs
10-22-2013, 11:34 AM
Vavra, no. He was a pretty decent hitting coach.

Vavra's good. He is the most "new school" coach they have. He's the one that really gets the advanced stats and made most use of video and such.

TheLeviathan
10-22-2013, 11:49 AM
I give this move two huge thumbs up. Excellent news.

stringer bell
10-22-2013, 11:50 AM
Manager in Waiting?

Brock Beauchamp
10-22-2013, 12:02 PM
Vavra's good. He is the most "new school" coach they have. He's the one that really gets the advanced stats and made most use of video and such.

Yep. I don't get the Vavra-bashing. The Twins were a solid offensive team during his tenure, barring 2011 when they were crushed by injuries.

DJL44
10-22-2013, 12:10 PM
Bobby Cuellar is of Mexican descent and speaks Spanish. I agree that Latino coaches are underrepresented when compared to Latino players but the Twins aren't completely ignoring it.

BabyJesusBuxton
10-22-2013, 12:16 PM
Barring a playoff appearance in 2015 I think Molitor is in position to be the next Twins manager. He is familiar with all the prospects in the minors because of his role as a roving instructor which will only help once they make it to the majors. I think such a move will be inevitable unless Gardy can get the team back into the playoffs before the end of his extension.

twinsnorth49
10-22-2013, 12:26 PM
Twins new manager 2015?....2014?

I agree the Twins need more Latino coaches but does that have to mean you pass on a guy like Molitor? Seems kind of silly to me, he brings instant credibility for the players.

I can see the them adding a Latino coach next off-season, there is likely to be some vacancies, perhaps even one this off-season in the lower levels.

Thrylos
10-22-2013, 12:32 PM
Or you could view it as "they added a Hall of Fame player who is one of the smartest hitters of the last generation and is widely respected throughout the league"..

HOF player with a rival team and a PED user.
(yes, cocaine is a PED.)

And a guy who magically became fit to be in the coaching staff this season while he was not (according to Ryan) last season.

Thrylos
10-22-2013, 12:33 PM
Bobby Cuellar is of Mexican descent and speaks Spanish. I agree that Latino coaches are underrepresented when compared to Latino players but the Twins aren't completely ignoring it.

Bobby Cuellar is sitting in the bullpen during the games, so the only effect he can have is during practices, during ST and for the bullpen...

Seth Stohs
10-22-2013, 12:38 PM
I still hope that Jake Mauer is the next Twins manager, and I believe that he would be the right choice.

twinsnorth49
10-22-2013, 12:40 PM
HOF player with a rival team and a PED user.
(yes, cocaine is a PED.)

And a guy who magically became fit to be in the coaching staff this season while he was not (according to Ryan) last season.

Nice to see you taking the high road for a change. I'm sure all that cocaine Molly did in the late '70's is what stamped his ticket to the Hall.

SweetOne69
10-22-2013, 12:40 PM
I doubt it. Molitor wanted to be the manager when Ryan hired Gardy but other than that I don't think there's any bad blood between the two. As mentioned, he's been a pretty consistent presence at ST every year.

As I understand it, Molitor DIDN"T want to be manager at that time. The job was his if he wanted it, he didn't, so the hired Gardy.

twinsnorth49
10-22-2013, 12:44 PM
As I understand it, Molitor DIDN"T want to be manager at that time. The job was his if he wanted it, he didn't, so the hired Gardy.

That was my understanding as well.

CK
10-22-2013, 01:02 PM
Rosetta Stone.
Problems solved.

oldguy10
10-22-2013, 01:03 PM
What is the true story of Molitor and cocaine usage and is it still relevant?

CK
10-22-2013, 01:10 PM
A player representative for much of his career, Molitor was at the center of several well-publicized contract negotiations. He won a battle with cocaine abuse during the injury-ravaged early part of his career, overcame the negative publicity that surrounded his mention in the trial of a prominent drug dealer, and delivered persuasive anti-substance-abuse messages to young people later in his career. Popular in both Milwaukee and Minnesota, Molitor remained close to baseball after his active career ended in 1998.

Source: SABR.org

Winston Smith
10-22-2013, 01:15 PM
Bobby Cuellar is of Mexican descent and speaks Spanish. I agree that Latino coaches are underrepresented when compared to Latino players but the Twins aren't completely ignoring it.

Cueller was born and raised in Texas and went to the U of Texas about as american as you can get. This is just my opinion but speaking spanish doesn't mean you can relate to players from Latin America and help mentor them. Of course it doesn't mean he doesn't help either.

However, I think that an ex latin player that could relate to coming to a new country, new language and having suceeded at making that transition would be helpful.

A question I'll ask is do the Twins have anyone in the dugout during the games that speaks fluent spanish?

Ultima Ratio
10-22-2013, 01:20 PM
Good move. It helps fill the gaping leadership and accountability void by coaches and more importantly at this point and with this roster: players.

ScottyB
10-22-2013, 01:22 PM
Okay, there's something I don't quite understand. Last year about this time, the Twins made their coach shuffle. At that time Terry Ryan said that Paul Molitor was "not a good fit" to be added as a coach. What has changed since that statement? I'd like someone to pursue that questioning of Ryan. I like the move, but I also agree with the many voices that say get rid of Ullger (he adds nothing at this point) and bring in an Hispanic coach.

Boom Boom
10-22-2013, 01:39 PM
Okay, there's something I don't quite understand. Last year about this time, the Twins made their coach shuffle. At that time Terry Ryan said that Paul Molitor was "not a good fit" to be added as a coach. What has changed since that statement? I'd like someone to pursue that questioning of Ryan. I like the move, but I also agree with the many voices that say get rid of Ullger (he adds nothing at this point) and bring in an Hispanic coach.

I believe it was LENIII at the time who said that Molitor wasn't a good fit because the Twins felt that having him on the staff would threaten Gardenhire's authority.

Thrylos
10-22-2013, 01:40 PM
Nice to see you taking the high road for a change. I'm sure all that cocaine Molly did in the late '70's is what stamped his ticket to the Hall.

Replace "cocaine" with "cream and clear" and "Molly" with "Bonds" and let me know how you feel.

Same story. Different drugs.

stringer bell
10-22-2013, 01:43 PM
Semantics here, but I believe Ryan said that Molitor on the coaching staff "wasn't the right fit" or something like that. That isn't saying the same thing as he wasn't fit to be on the staff.

stringer bell
10-22-2013, 01:45 PM
Cueller was born and raised in Texas and went to the U of Texas about as american as you can get. This is just my opinion but speaking spanish doesn't mean you can relate to players from Latin America and help mentor them. Of course it doesn't mean he doesn't help either.

However, I think that an ex latin player that could relate to coming to a new country, new language and having suceeded at making that transition would be helpful.

A question I'll ask is do the Twins have anyone in the dugout during the games that speaks fluent spanish?Now that Wilken has been DFAed--Colabello.

JB_Iowa
10-22-2013, 01:46 PM
Notebook: GM Ryan's 'interim' tag removed; Paul Molitor 'not a fit' - Minnesota Twins news | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Twins (http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Notebook_GM_Ryans_interim_tag_removed_Paul_Molitor _not_a_fit100512)

JB_Iowa
10-22-2013, 01:50 PM
On the "fit" question, I suppose it could be argued that they didn't want a "manager in waiting" when Gardenhire was on the last year of his contract.

Perhaps now that Gardenhire is back on a 2-year agreement, they don't see it as the same issue.

Just speculating.

nicksaviking
10-22-2013, 01:59 PM
Replace "cocaine" with "cream and clear" and "Molly" with "Bonds" and let me know how you feel.

Same story. Different drugs.

Cocaine adds strength and helps helps the body rapidly recover? I got to see that study.

I too am curious why Molitor is suddenly a fit. I like the move but am also frustrated they dipped back into the old boys club. It just strengthens the notion that Ryan refuses to leave his comfort zone.

ashburyjohn
10-22-2013, 02:02 PM
thrylos, you've taken another cheap shot

Moderator's note: we can discuss even controversial topics without taking (ahem) shots at each others' character. It's one thing to rebut an argument by describing it as a cheap shot; but trying to link it to past discussions ("another") becomes more about the other poster than about the discussion. Avoid that, please.

twinsnorth49
10-22-2013, 02:03 PM
Replace "cocaine" with "cream and clear" and "Molly" with "Bonds" and let me know how you feel.

Same story. Different drugs.

Sure, whatever you say, the similarities in their early and late careers due to their drug use is remarkable, so are their statistical comparisons.



5885 5886



5887

James
10-22-2013, 02:20 PM
On the "fit" question, I suppose it could be argued that they didn't want a "manager in waiting" when Gardenhire was on the last year of his contract.

Perhaps now that Gardenhire is back on a 2-year agreement, they don't see it as the same issue.

Just speculating.
This is exactly what I thought of when the question was asked. Now that Gardy doesn't have to worry about his contract, adding someone that would be a potential next manger shouldn't be as threatening.

The two year Gardy allows Molitor to get some experience, Gardy to get his 1000th win with the Twins, and potentially allows Gardy to announce that he will retire after 2015 and do a farewell tour, where he can take on a role with the org like TK did. Molitor can then take over as the next manager.

This is all speculation, but I could easily see this happening.

DJL44
10-22-2013, 02:21 PM
Bobby Cuellar is sitting in the bullpen during the games, so the only effect he can have is during practices, during ST and for the bullpen...

They can pick up the phone and call him....

Seriously though, the other players can translate in-game. He's most needed during practice and in the clubhouse.

Willihammer
10-22-2013, 02:27 PM
Infield positioning eh? Will be curious to see if they do more shifting.

DJL44
10-22-2013, 02:27 PM
A question I'll ask is do the Twins have anyone in the dugout during the games that speaks fluent spanish?

Pedro Florimon speaks fluent Spanish. Pretty much all the Latino players do.

PseudoSABR
10-22-2013, 03:04 PM
It's hard not to read Molitor being on the staff (whatever his designation might be) as a manager in waiting whether that's next year, in two, or somewhere down the line. I wonder if Gardy could retire in the next couple years, ala TK, and that's already been communicated. Wasn't Gardy just one year short of his retirement vesting or something like that?

Brock Beauchamp
10-22-2013, 03:28 PM
Replace "cocaine" with "cream and clear" and "Molly" with "Bonds" and let me know how you feel.

Same story. Different drugs.

Same story? Really?

Cocaine, while technically a "performance enhancer", is mainly used as a recreational party drug. Molitor was a young player who did stupid crap. It happens. He later showed contrition and spent effort in advocating against the drug in his later years.

Yeah, that's exactly like Bonds. A guy who used a drug whose sole purpose is performance enhancement late in his career because he didn't like the fact that other people were also cheating.

Besides, if Barry Bonds wasn't such a jackass, I'd also advocate that he be hired as a coach. The dude could flat-out rake and has a hell of a baseball mind.

Hosken Bombo Disco
10-22-2013, 03:29 PM
It's hard not to read Molitor being on the staff (whatever his designation might be) as a manager in waiting whether that's next year, in two, or somewhere down the line. I wonder if Gardy could retire in the next couple years, ala TK, and that's already been communicated. Wasn't Gardy just one year short of his retirement vesting or something like that?

I agree -- we now know who the next manager will be. We just don't know when. It really is an interesting dynamic. I've never heard a shred of evidence that Gardenhire wants to leave this job and I wouldn't say Molitor is a member of the "boys club" because if he was, Gardy would have recommended him for a bench coach job by now. My guess is the Molitor hire was directed from the upper reaches of ownership and is a clear signal that the clock is ticking on the status quo.

twinsfan34
10-22-2013, 03:35 PM
Pedro Florimon speaks fluent Spanish. Pretty much all the Latino players do.

Add Arcia(Venezuelan), Pinto(Venezuelan), Escobar(Venezuelan), Deduno (Domincan), and, if on the roster next year, Hernandez (Venezuelan) to the mix.

Colabello also is fluent in Italian and Spanish (http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/57296340/).

That's...6..7..players who speak Spanish.

But, I'm still on board with another Spanish speaking coach in the dugout. Couldn't hurt.

And even better, if it he was a Latin legend, a HOFer, great character, and a counseling type of coach.

USAFChief
10-22-2013, 04:32 PM
Manager in Waiting?

That's my initial reaction as well.

And for what its worth, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the wait was less than 2 years.

darin617
10-22-2013, 04:59 PM
According to the Twins:
He will oversee base running, bunting and infield instruction, PLUS assist with in-game strategy.
His last MLB coaching duty was as hitting coach of the Mariners in 2004.

That sounds great! Now all we need are players that can get on base and follow simple instruction and we could be a .500 team.
Wait, I forgot about the pitching. Is there any chance they can find someone qualified (not Rick Anderson) who could turn around the pitching staff and than we can get out of the cellar and back to respectability.

nicksaviking
10-22-2013, 05:05 PM
It's hard not to read Molitor being on the staff (whatever his designation might be) as a manager in waiting

Probably, but that is a complete BS. I like Molitor and I like him around the players. I think he should be a candidate for a managerial position, but if this is a preemptive move to keep the old boys club intact and stall change despite the obvious need for outside voices, Ryan needs to go.

Molitor or any other current employee cannot be given de facto status while we are staring at all this incompetence, it is a huge slap in the face to fans who want to think there is hope this club will someday join the 21st century. Ryan needs to stop insulating this club from the rest of the baseball world.

LaBombo
10-22-2013, 05:49 PM
That's my initial reaction as well.

And for what its worth, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the wait was less than 2 years.
The thread was already four pages long before I read it, and it was almost unbelievable that there were about twenty times more posts about the continued lack of a Spanish-speaking coach in the dugout as there were about the seemingly very high probability that the next manager of the Twins has been named. Start date TBD.

And yes, the two year contract means nothing to anyone except Gardenhire, who gets paid for two years no matter when Molitor takes over, and at least some of the players, who are being told not to treat Gardy like a lame duck manager even though history tells us he unequivocally is.

Completely understand and mostly agree with the take of nicks and others who want new blood from outside the organization. But with Ryan GM'ing (and perhaps even just the Pohlads owning) the Twins, a guy who spent the majority of his time both during and after his playing career away from the Twins might be the closest to an 'outsider' we see as the Twins' manager.

mike wants wins
10-22-2013, 08:34 PM
Having spent a lot of time with people from Latin America, speaking spanish, and relating on a cultural level are two very different things. I have nothing against Molitor being added, but someone that can relate better to people in their culture would have been nice, imo.

Not sure I really care one way or the other. I'm fascinated that people care so much. When some of us question the current coaches, and the "growth" of the players, we are told major league coaches don't matter all that much.

I am much more interested in what players they add, than adding a coach. Does no one else see this as a PR move? I do.

Hosken Bombo Disco
10-22-2013, 09:44 PM
I am much more interested in what players they add, than adding a coach. Does no one else see this as a PR move? I do.

It could be. If so, Molitor got suckered. There's nothing in it for Molitor at this point in his career to be a "baserunning" coach. All the circumstantial evidence points to a changing of the guard soon to come.

old nurse
10-22-2013, 09:53 PM
Why are there no calls for a black coach, as no one can understand the culture of being black in America because they are not black? Coaches are hired for their ability to work with people. In any diverse workplace there are going to be a variety of different cultures. A coach or manager will not last long in the profession without the ability to work with all kinds of people to get the best out of them.

old nurse
10-22-2013, 09:55 PM
It would not be a PR move. The adding of players that were born in Minnesota to play out their final seasons did not increase attendance.

benchwarmerjim
10-22-2013, 10:38 PM
Minnesota Twins hire Paul Molitor as coach - TwinCities.com (http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_24361523/minnesota-twins-hire-paul-molitor-coach)


Though some observers might view Molitor as a potential threat to Gardenhire, Ryan said the idea of adding Molitor to the staff actually came from the current manager.
"This initially came about from Gardy," Ryan said. "Once the season concluded, we sat down in earnest to see exactly how we wanted to proceed. Gardy had mentioned Paul. We had discussed him at length at previous times. As it got serious, I gave Paul a call and Gardy gave Paul a call to see if he had interest, which he did."



that should probably answer the questions "why now?" and "is Molitor is a manager in training?"

John Bonnes
10-22-2013, 11:40 PM
My experience is that this might make it harder for Molitor to be named manager some day. If things get bad enough that Gardy needs to be fired, I have to think they'll be bad enough that none of his assistant coaches will be given the reins.

jokin
10-22-2013, 11:47 PM
It would not be a PR move. The adding of players that were born in Minnesota to play out their final seasons did not increase attendance.

Twins attendance 1990: 1.752M
Twins sign Jack Morris
Twins attendance 1991: 2.294M (31% increase in overall attendance).

Twins attendance 1995: 1.058M (72 games)
Twins sign Paul Molitor
Twins attendance 1996: 1.437M (81 games) (21% increase in per/game attendance.)

jokin
10-22-2013, 11:52 PM
Minnesota Twins hire Paul Molitor as coach - TwinCities.com (http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_24361523/minnesota-twins-hire-paul-molitor-coach)


that should probably answer the questions "why now?" and "is Molitor is a manager in training?"

It still doesn't answer the question that wasn't asked of Ryan, namely, why is Molitor a "good fit" now, when according to Ryan, he wasn't a "good fit" last year, or any year previous to now? Ryan said that he and Gardy had "discussed (Molitor) at length at previous times", and yet up until today he has been forever-spurned from joining the field staff on a regular basis. What changed?

ashburyjohn
10-23-2013, 12:19 AM
All the circumstantial evidence points to a changing of the guard soon to come.

Seems like a fresh new 2-year contract for Gardy would be circumstantial evidence in the opposite direction. Depends on what you mean by "soon", I guess.

Hosken Bombo Disco
10-23-2013, 01:01 AM
It still doesn't answer the question that wasn't asked of Ryan, namely, why is Molitor a "good fit" now, when according to Ryan, he wasn't a "good fit" last year, or any year previous to now? Ryan said that he and Gardy had "discussed (Molitor) at length at previous times", and yet up until today he has been forever-spurned from joining the field staff on a regular basis. What changed?

Everything Terry Ryan says begs for a reading between the lines.

jokin
10-23-2013, 01:13 AM
Everything Terry Ryan says begs for a reading between the lines.

And a pair of Secret Decoder "Reading Between the Lines" Glasses.

Hosken Bombo Disco
10-23-2013, 01:26 AM
Seems like a fresh new 2-year contract for Gardy would be circumstantial evidence in the opposite direction. Depends on what you mean by "soon", I guess.

Yes, soon would be 1 or 2 years, which is lightning speed by Twins standards.

I was on the losing side of the Gardenhire debate. To some of us, it was inconceivable that the status quo prevailed. So if nothing else the Molitor hire at least throws us a bone - and apparently Trevor Plouffe agrees :) It could very well be just a PR move. If the Twins honestly get some guys turned around and we win some games, I'll be fine with the coaches coming back for 2015.

jokin
10-23-2013, 01:40 AM
Yes, soon would be 1 or 2 years, which is lightning speed by Twins standards.

I was on the losing side of the Gardenhire debate. To some of us, it was inconceivable that the status quo prevailed. So if nothing else the Molitor hire at least throws us a bone - and apparently Trevor Plouffe agrees :) It could very well be just a PR move. If the Twins honestly get some guys turned around and we win some games, I'll be fine with the coaches coming back for 2015.

Brian Dozier is All In, too:

"He's been a huge help to me, not only as a second baseman but just everything. He kind of changed the way I prepare, I guess, for a game," Dozier said. "We already have a really good coaching staff. To add another good one only makes us better. …

"When you see Paul Molitor, Hall of Famer, you're all ears no matter what."

The Wise One
10-23-2013, 06:16 AM
Twins attendance 1990: 1.752M
Twins sign Jack Morris
Twins attendance 1991: 2.294M (31% increase in overall attendance).

Twins attendance 1995: 1.058M (72 games)
Twins sign Paul Molitor
Twins attendance 1996: 1.437M (81 games) (21% increase in per/game attendance.)

That the Twins were winning those years compared to the poor seasons previous had nothing to do with attendance. It was all to see 2 players. By 1998 with Molitor the attendance had gone back down. They were not winning. Winning draws the fans

USAFChief
10-23-2013, 08:06 AM
We'll see how it plays out. I still get the strong sense this isn't entirely about adding another coach...a coach who "wasn't a fit" just a year ago and won't be viewed by almost anyone as just another of Gardy's guys.

By next June, if (when?) the Twins are buried in the standings again, on their way to another dismal season, things could get pretty ugly.

twinsnorth49
10-23-2013, 08:41 AM
My experience is that this might make it harder for Molitor to be named manager some day. If things get bad enough that Gardy needs to be fired, I have to think they'll be bad enough that none of his assistant coaches will be given the reins.

I think given the likely short time frame this might happen, the new infield instruction, base running coach gets spared. Unless of course they play the infield and run the bases like they have the last two years.

SweetOne69
10-23-2013, 10:01 AM
My experience is that this might make it harder for Molitor to be named manager some day. If things get bad enough that Gardy needs to be fired, I have to think they'll be bad enough that none of his assistant coaches will be given the reins.

Why would you think that? TK was promoted to Interim Manager in 1986 after Ray Miller was let go after being added to the Major League coaching staff in 1983.

benchwarmerjim
10-23-2013, 10:06 AM
It still doesn't answer the question that wasn't asked of Ryan, namely, why is Molitor a "good fit" now, when according to Ryan, he wasn't a "good fit" last year, or any year previous to now? Ryan said that he and Gardy had "discussed (Molitor) at length at previous times", and yet up until today he has been forever-spurned from joining the field staff on a regular basis. What changed?
Mike Berardino tweeted yesterday


Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino (https://twitter.com/MikeBerardino) Family considerations were key, Paul Molitor said. Julia is 10, Benjamin is 7. Kids now "old enough and young enough" to handle separation



I think the 'good fit' isnt on the Twins end, but on Molitor's end.

nicksaviking
10-23-2013, 10:23 AM
My experience is that this might make it harder for Molitor to be named manager some day. If things get bad enough that Gardy needs to be fired, I have to think they'll be bad enough that none of his assistant coaches will be given the reins.

I would agree if this was a different club, but the Twins managerial staff has been hired and fired in piecemeal for decades. The only way I see wholesale changes is if Ryan gets canned and a new GM, from outside the organization comes in a blows everything up.

SweetOne69
10-23-2013, 10:24 AM
My experience is that this might make it harder for Molitor to be named manager some day. If things get bad enough that Gardy needs to be fired, I have to think they'll be bad enough that none of his assistant coaches will be given the reins.

Why would you think that? TK was promoted to Interim Manager in 1986 after Ray Miller was let go after being added to the Major League coaching staff in 1983.

panolo
10-23-2013, 11:03 AM
Replace "cocaine" with "cream and clear" and "Molly" with "Bonds" and let me know how you feel.

Same story. Different drugs.

I respect the opinion you have but I'm sorry cocaine may be considered an upper for a short time but the prolonged use is far from performing enhancing. IMO you don't use cocaine to get better at things. You use it to party.

Longdistancetwins
10-23-2013, 11:23 AM
As to the future manager status: I have no interest in someone who hasn't managed at any level before (coaching doesn't count). I realize that Hall of Famers aren't likely to want to get experience riding the buses in the minor leagues, but that's where I'm at. I still have some bad memories of the Quilici years.

ashburyjohn
10-23-2013, 11:28 AM
If this has been brought up already, I missed it: Molitor is 57 years old. A year older than Gardy.

It's not against the rules to replace a manager with someone older, but 57 is pretty long in the tooth to be getting one's first managing gig. I took a look at the 30 current managers, and most got their first managing job in their 40s, if not their 30s. The ones who were in their 50s were:


Bud Black - 50
Don Mattingly - 50
Kirk Gibson - 53
Ron Roenicke - 54
Ron Washington - 55
Charley Manuel - 56

The first three seem the closest match for Molitor - stars (or at least a long and good MLB career in the case of Black) who hadn't necessarily paid a couple of decades of minor-league, bus-ridin' dues as coaches, as far as I recall. Realistically, Molitor would be 58 or 59 if he ever got the call, almost a full decade older than these three were.

The other three were more in the "organizational man" mold, I think, which may or may not have bearing on Molitor. But even they were a few years younger than Molitor is now.

Jim Leyland just retired at 68. But he wasn't born old. His first managing job was at age 41. Jack McKeon was older than dirt when he came back to the Marlins, but he started with the Royals at 42. This is kind of typical of successful managers, such as Maddon and Girardi, and I would expect (no, I hope) the Twins to aim similarly.

I'm sure it wouldn't be unprecedented for somebody Molly's age to get a first managerial job (I found it surprisingly difficult to look this up). But it would be highly against the trend.

/ edit - the same reason applies to why I've never looked at Gene Glynn as a manager-in-waiting at Rochester, except as an interim in case of some dire emergency.

Longdistancetwins
10-23-2013, 11:57 AM
If this has been brought up already, I missed it: Molitor is 57 years old. A year older than Gardy.

It's not against the rules to replace a manager with someone older, but 57 is pretty long in the tooth to be getting one's first managing gig. I took a look at the 30 current managers, and most got their first managing job in their 40s, if not their 30s. The ones who were in their 50s were:


Bud Black - 50
Don Mattingly - 50
Kirk Gibson - 53
Ron Roenicke - 54
Ron Washington - 55
Charley Manuel - 56

The first three seem the closest match for Molitor - stars (or at least a long and good MLB career in the case of Black) who hadn't necessarily paid a couple of decades of minor-league, bus-ridin' dues as coaches, as far as I recall. Realistically, Molitor would be 58 or 59 if he ever got the call, almost a full decade older than these three were.

The other three were more in the "organizational man" mold, I think, which may or may not have bearing on Molitor. But even they were a few years younger than Molitor is now.

Jim Leyland just retired at 68. But he wasn't born old. His first managing job was at age 41. Jack McKeon was older than dirt when he came back to the Marlins, but he started with the Royals at 42. This is kind of typical of successful managers, such as Maddon and Girardi, and I would expect (no, I hope) the Twins to aim similarly.

I'm sure it wouldn't be unprecedented for somebody Molly's age to get a first managerial job (I found it surprisingly difficult to look this up). But it would be highly against the trend.

/ edit - the same reason applies to why I've never looked at Gene Glynn as a manager-in-waiting at Rochester, except as an interim in case of some dire emergency.

Thanks, Asbury. Really helpful--albeit depressing, since I don't think of Molly as old, and I'm Gardy's age.

ashburyjohn
10-23-2013, 12:35 PM
Thanks, Asbury. Really helpful--albeit depressing, since I don't think of Molly as old, and I'm Gardy's age.

You think that's bad. I'm older than USAFChief.

Thrylos
10-23-2013, 01:54 PM
Twins attendance 1990: 1.752M
Twins sign Jack Morris
Twins attendance 1991: 2.294M (31% increase in overall attendance).

Twins attendance 1995: 1.058M (72 games)
Twins sign Paul Molitor
Twins attendance 1996: 1.437M (81 games) (21% increase in per/game attendance.)

Still.
I think that it has to do with performance of the club and names in general, and not necessary where someone was born.

For example, the single game record attendance in the Dome was broken in '87 in Steve Carlton's first start. Despite being older than dirt and ineffective, Carlton and the Twins were packing rear ends in the dome on his every start after that, compared to games started by the like of Les Straker. Of course we all know what happened in '87 (and in '91.)

I am convinced that the 90 to 91 season attendance jump has more to do with the team's last to first performance than the signing of Jack Morris

mike wants wins
10-23-2013, 03:39 PM
Actually, attendance usually really jumps the year after success, not during the year of success. That's been shown several times in studies. Though, there are likely exceptions, so those could be exceptions.

stringer bell
10-23-2013, 04:11 PM
You think that's bad. I'm older than USAFChief.And I'm older than both of you!

jokin
10-23-2013, 04:12 PM
That the Twins were winning those years compared to the poor seasons previous had nothing to do with attendance. It was all to see 2 players. By 1998 with Molitor the attendance had gone back down. They were not winning. Winning draws the fans

My post was a direct response to what had been flatly stated as a fact. I specifically made no reference to it being "all to see 2 players". Of course, those 2 players did heighten preseason interest and directly led to increased ticket sales- before any wins or losses took place....and also of course- their outstanding seasons in those specific years I mentioned directly led to significant improvements in on-the-field performance.

(Uhh, in 1996, Molitor was in a season long pursuit of 3000 hits- a prime reason to come out to the ballpark to see a still-losing team, not a winning team. By 1998, Molitor was turning 42 and a shell of his self).

mike wants wins
10-23-2013, 04:25 PM
Thanks everyone for making me feel younger today.

ashburyjohn
10-23-2013, 04:28 PM
And I'm older than both of you!

5896


Thanks everyone for making me feel younger today.

What old people say.

USAFChief
10-23-2013, 04:45 PM
Thanks everyone for making me feel smarter today. ;)

LaBombo
10-23-2013, 04:45 PM
I'm sure it wouldn't be unprecedented for somebody Molly's age to get a first managerial job (I found it surprisingly difficult to look this up). But it would be highly against the trend.

Really nice work on the managerial debuts by age, interesting stuff.

In the end, though, it's the Twins, so none of the normal rules apply. Gardenhire's return after 3 90-loss seasons is just shy of unprecedented, so it looks like nothing is off the table.

jokin
10-23-2013, 04:55 PM
Really nice work on the managerial debuts by age, interesting stuff.

In the end, though, it's the Twins, so "none of the normal rules apply." Gardenhire's return after 3 90-loss seasons is "just shy of unprecedented", so it looks like "nothing is off the table."

I like it when a phrase is coined, particularly when they just so happen to exemplify the Twins in just about every aspect of the game in this decade thus far.

LaBombo
10-23-2013, 05:14 PM
I like it when a phrase is coined, particularly when they just so happen to exemplify the Twins in just about every aspect of the game in this decade thus far.
Part of the problem is that the Twins front office continues to frequently act as if they have unusual ideas about what decade this actually is.

Still optimistic, though, and hoping that Terry Ryan won't see his shadow at the winter meetings, thus bringing about a speedy end to his self-imposed offensive Dead Ball Era.

D. Hocking
10-23-2013, 05:31 PM
Regarding age -- 55 is the new 35 -- at least that is what I tell myself...

LaBombo
10-23-2013, 05:43 PM
Regarding age -- 55 is the new 35 -- at least that is what I tell myself...
Molitor has apparently told his second wife the same thing...
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/HS-5WzcAnMA/maxresdefault.jpg

Here's a link (http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/f9d60ca6)to a revealing article about Molitor, and it offers some credible speculation about the possibility that poor judgement in his personal life is at least partly to blame for diverting him from what appeared to be a potential fast track to managing in MLB.

ashburyjohn
10-23-2013, 07:15 PM
A little web searching reveals that renowned bad boy Aaron Gleeman posted this quip in 2006 (http://aarongleeman.com/2006/06/page/3/):


Is Paul Molitor's wife really named Destini Molitor? That's almost as good as Boof Bonser.

My own take is that perhaps her parents had one tee many Destoonis when they named her.

jokin
10-23-2013, 07:19 PM
Molitor has apparently told his second wife the same thing...
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/HS-5WzcAnMA/maxresdefault.jpg

Here's a link (http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/f9d60ca6)to a revealing article about Molitor, and it offers some credible speculation about the possibility that poor judgement in his personal life is at least partly to blame for diverting him from what appeared to be a potential fast track to managing in MLB.

It might be interesting if you could juxtapose this snapshot of Desiree and Paul with one of that "younger couple", Carol and Ron.

diehardtwinsfan
10-23-2013, 07:30 PM
Twins attendance 1990: 1.752M
Twins sign Jack Morris
Twins attendance 1991: 2.294M (31% increase in overall attendance).

Twins attendance 1995: 1.058M (72 games)
Twins sign Paul Molitor
Twins attendance 1996: 1.437M (81 games) (21% increase in per/game attendance.)

1991? Really? Please tell me you don't actually believe that the spike in attendance in 91 was because people really wanted to see the Minnesota native Jack Morris pitch.

diehardtwinsfan
10-23-2013, 07:32 PM
Looking at Molitor and Gardenhire, it's hard to believe that they are the same age.

stringer bell
10-23-2013, 09:19 PM
Overall, I like the addition of Molitor. He was a talent that became a great ballplayer and sustained his performance well into his 40s due to a great baseball IQ, probably combined with good health. Molitor really knows baseball and he's very articulate.

Certainly, it would make sense to add an Hispanic coach, especially with young talents such as Arcia, Rosario and Sano already here or on the way soon. It's probably equally as important to add a voice from outside the organization who signifies that it won't be "business as usual" going forward. I hope that hiring comes next, but adding someone like Molitor probably shouldn't be delayed.

jokin
10-23-2013, 11:47 PM
1991? Really? Please tell me you don't actually believe that the spike in attendance in 91 was because people really wanted to see the Minnesota native Jack Morris pitch.

Where was it I said that? Merely quoted facts

Mikewantswins stated it accurately. The big increase in attendance almost always occurs the year after a successful season (like a World Series win). The Jack Morris offseason signing after '90 can debatedly be argued to have spurred offseason buzz and interest and generated some increased season-ticket activity and advance ticket sales- but certainly not the bulk of the 31% increase-never claimed any particular number on my part- just refuted an unsupported blanket statement to the contrary.

But it's important to consider, that when you strike gold like McPhail did on a Home-town Hero riding to the rescue and leading you to the pennant, there're plenty of feel-good bandwagon-jumpers more apt to ride that Meme and make a walk-up ticket purchase.

snepp
10-24-2013, 08:08 PM
Or you could view it as "they added a Hall of Fame player who is one of the smartest hitters of the last generation and is widely respected throughout the league".

Really, I don't see how anyone can complain about this move. Every time I hear Molitor talk about baseball, I leave impressed.

Yeah, it'd be nice to add a Spanish-speaking coach as well but this is Paul Molitor, for Christ's sake. If that guy's available, you hire him. Period.

I was going to give you a like for this post, but you already have enough of them. So...


I concur.

Sconnie
10-24-2013, 09:30 PM
I don't think hiring Molitor is bad business. I like the move.
Doesn't mean I don't see value in having a Latin American coach as well.

I suspect a team is allowed to hire as many coaches as they want, but I believe there is a limit on how many can be in the dugout during a game.

Does anyone have info on this? I read that MLB added a bench coach spot to the rule book (up to 8 I think) that the twins never filled

John Bonnes
10-24-2013, 10:13 PM
I read that MLB added a bench coach spot to the rule book (up to 8 I think) that the twins never filled

I think MLB approved it before last season, but neede it to be approved by the MLBPA. It was enacted in April sometime and the Twins waited until after the season to add the extra guy.