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View Full Version : When Will the Twins Retire Radke's Number?



YourHouseIsMyHouse
10-19-2013, 10:34 PM
He's got the credentials, he pitched his entire career here, and is the epitome of a Twins pitcher. #6 in career WAR as a Twin, NINE 200+IP seasons (4 220+), spent 12 excellent years in Minnesota, and is just a good guy. Tony Oliva and Kent Hrbek have had their numbers retired and I don't think either were as big as contributors over their careers. Both were very good, however, let's not get into that. Since #22 has been disgraced by the likes of Danny Valencia, Matt Carson, and Wilkin Ramirez most recently, can we do it a little justice?

notoriousgod71
10-19-2013, 10:39 PM
He's got the credentials, he pitched his entire career here, and is the epitome of a Twins pitcher. #6 in career WAR as a Twin, NINE 200+IP seasons (4 220+), spent 12 excellent years in Minnesota, and is just a good guy. Tony Oliva and Kent Hrbek have had their numbers retired and I don't think either were as big as contributors over their careers. Both were very good, however, let's not get into that. Since #22 has been disgraced by the likes of Danny Valencia, Matt Carson, and Wilkin Ramirez most recently, can we do it a little justice?

The only thing I agree with.

cmathewson
10-19-2013, 10:56 PM
They retired Bert's number only after he was admitted to the Hall of Fame. That is what it will take for Radke. I.e. the number will not be retired.

Kwak
10-19-2013, 10:56 PM
Radke wasn't special and such an accolade would be woefully wrong.

benchwarmerjim
10-19-2013, 10:59 PM
when? when the attendance falls through the roof at Target Field and need a promotion to rally around.

but really, Radke is a good representative for the Twins and a great player and is the Twins Hall of Fame and thats good by me. His number gets retired if he goes to Cooperstown.

Zephrin
10-19-2013, 11:19 PM
The next number the Twins will retire is 7.

notoriousgod71
10-19-2013, 11:26 PM
The next number the Twins will retire is 7.

Hocking was awesome.

stringer bell
10-20-2013, 12:07 AM
How about 33? I think Hrbek and Morneau are comparable. Morneau had more than 5000 PAs with an OPS+ of 121. He was an All-Star four times, won two Silver Sluggers, and an MVP. Hrbek was a 128 OPS+ in 12 seasons, won two World Series and made one All-Star team. I didn't think Herbie's or Bert's numbers should have been retired, but if Hrbek's standard is the height of the bar, I think Morneau belongs as well, but maybe they can leave out the statue.

LaBombo
10-20-2013, 01:10 AM
Hocking was awesome.
No offense to you or the Hockster, but it's pretty obvious the poster you were replying to was referring to treasured Twins franchise cornerstone Scottie Ullger...

Joe A. Preusser
10-20-2013, 01:12 AM
Radke was a great player over his career. He won 20 games in a single year...for the Twins. Santana won the Cy Young in a year he won only 16 games. Take a moment to digest that one. Radke deserves to be inducted into the Twins HOF. Not the MLB HOF, but the Twins HOF? YES!

Joe A. Preusser
10-20-2013, 01:15 AM
No offense to you or the Hockster, but it's pretty obvious the poster you were replying to was referring to treasured Twins franchise cornerstone Scottie Ullger...

One of my favorite memories in Twins history is Hocking snapping a single over the third baseman with a flick of his wrist. He wasn't an All-Star, but he played hard the Twins way.

Hosken Bombo Disco
10-20-2013, 02:13 AM
I come to these boards to be entertained sometimes. I love reading people completely dismissing the idea of retiring Radke's number. Radke's numbers stand up well to Kaat and Blyleven. Radke was the shining light of the late 1990s. Radke never said the word "me" in his entire career - can't say that about Bert. In his final season Radke basically pitched with a broken arm during the long stretch drive (we put guys on the DL for 'fatigue' now). Evaluating guys for these things is more than looking at the sum total of their statistics. I'd say go for it.

raindog
10-20-2013, 07:58 AM
Wow..I'm not sure if his number should be retired, but Radke was a great pitcher. My mind is blown that he's being dismissed as "not special" or "epitome of a Twins pitcher".

Boom Boom
10-20-2013, 08:45 AM
Radke was at least as good of a pitcher as Hrbek was a first baseman.

nicksaviking
10-20-2013, 10:08 AM
Wow..I'm not sure if his number should be retired, but Radke was a great pitcher. My mind is blown that he's being dismissed as "not special" or "epitome of a Twins pitcher".

I think great is pretty exaggerated. I love Radke, but a guy who is off the HOF ballot after his first year of eligibility isn't great. He was very good but had an ERA under 4.00 only four times.

I'm not sure how proud I would be of retiring the number of guys who are the "epitome of a Twins pitcher," that's not very high praise. I might even call it a derogatory statement. That's why #57 will be the next number retired by the Twins. Santana was definitely not the epitome of a Twins pitcher, that's why he was two-time Cy Young winner. If Kaat and Viola aren't getting their number retired, Radke shouldn't.

FSP
10-20-2013, 10:55 AM
How about 33? I think Hrbek and Morneau are comparable. Morneau had more than 5000 PAs with an OPS+ of 121. He was an All-Star four times, won two Silver Sluggers, and an MVP. Hrbek was a 128 OPS+ in 12 seasons, won two World Series and made one All-Star team. I didn't think Herbie's or Bert's numbers should have been retired, but if Hrbek's standard is the height of the bar, I think Morneau belongs as well, but maybe they can leave out the statue.

Agree on Hrbek and Bert, but I don't think it is fair to use Hrbek as the bar for future players. I think they made an exception for him because of the two WS and being a local guy and fan favorite. IMO retired numbers should go to superstars who show a commitment to staying with the team and Mauer is the only one that meets that criteria.

nicksaviking
10-20-2013, 11:01 AM
Radke was at least as good of a pitcher as Hrbek was a first baseman.

I for one was never sold on Hrbek getting his number retired. I wasn't against it, but it seemed as much to do with his status as a hometown hero as anything else. However, he was a better player than Radke. At the very least, he was a vital cog of the World Series teams.

I want the elite numbers retired, the guys who fans of other teams would also revere as great players. Basically Hall of Famers or those that we may view as close enough for consideration.

Boom Boom
10-20-2013, 12:00 PM
I for one was never sold on Hrbek getting his number retired. I wasn't against it, but it seemed as much to do with his status as a hometown hero as anything else. However, he was a better player than Radke. At the very least, he was a vital cog of the World Series teams.

I want the elite numbers retired, the guys who fans of other teams would also revere as great players. Basically Hall of Famers or those that we may view as close enough for consideration.

I'm not arguing for the exclusion of Hrbek as much as the inclusion of Radke. If you want to judge the player by postseason success, Hrbek wins. But Radke significantly out-WARs Hrbek, so I don't believe Hrbek is a better player.

If Radke was originally from Minnesota, he'd already have his number retired.

Mr. Brooks
10-20-2013, 12:11 PM
Radke was a great player over his career. He won 20 games in a single year...for the Twins. Santana won the Cy Young in a year he won only 16 games. Take a moment to digest that one. Radke deserves to be inducted into the Twins HOF. Not the MLB HOF, but the Twins HOF? YES!

I'm not quite sure what we are supposed to be "digesting"?
Wins are a team stat, and not something that a pitcher has much control over.

JB_Iowa
10-20-2013, 12:18 PM
Radke is in the Twins hall of fame. Minnesota Twins Hall of Famers | twinsbaseball.com: History (http://twins.mlb.com/min/history/twins_hall_of_famers.jsp)

Retiring his number is another consideration altogether. I'm not sold on it but I'm not totally opposed either.

(Seems like the two concepts were getting confused somewhere up above).

MinnesotaMike
10-20-2013, 01:13 PM
Radke makes me think of my high school football team. We had some ok players that helped us win but we're not good enough to be even all conference, but that didn't diminish that they were decent players. I guess longevity and mediocrity for me does not earn someone a great honor like retiring his number.

Rosterman
10-20-2013, 01:16 PM
A good argument...especially over the likes of Perry, Pascual, Santana and even guys like Reardon and Aggie. But that's what the Hall of Fame is for. Rettiring a number is for the utra special player in franchise history.....

ThePuck
10-20-2013, 01:25 PM
Radke was a great player over his career. He won 20 games in a single year...for the Twins. Santana won the Cy Young in a year he won only 16 games. Take a moment to digest that one.

There's nothing to digest there cause it's not true.

In any event, the win/loss stat is a horrible way to judge pitchers...as evidence by the fact Santana finished 3rd in 2005 while Colon won...likely finishing 3rd because he only won 16 games. He had an ERA of 2.87, over 230 IP, while leading the league in ERA+, Ks, WHIP, H/9, K/9. The only thing Colon had him beat in was the win-loss record.

Radke finshed 3rd in the year he won 20 and an argument could be made he shouldn't have finished that high, but he definitely shouldn't have finished higher.

matthew0211
10-20-2013, 01:45 PM
I'm probably in the minority, but retiring numbers should be reserved for upper-echelon Hall-of-Famers only. Now, "upper-echelon" is definitely subjective and I don't have any specific criteria for what that would be, but my overall theory is the more numbers that are retired, the less meaning it has, and that honor should be reserved for the truly greats of the game.

In my humble opinion, the only Twin that should have his number retired is Harmon. I could probably be talked into Carew. But that's it.

raindog
10-20-2013, 02:28 PM
I think just about any HoF player should have his number retired, especially on a team without a lot of those. I couldn't imagine Bert's number not being retired. And the other Twins numbers retired are pretty reasonable. Maybe not Hrbek, but the hometown thing is special.

Going back to Radke, he probably shouldn't have his number retired. I just think people should appreciate how good he was. I probably overstated it earlier, but he was so solid. And he pitched a lot in a offense heavy era.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
10-20-2013, 02:28 PM
I'm not quite sure what we are supposed to be "digesting"?
Wins are a team stat, and not something that a pitcher has much control over.

Radke won 20 games on a 68-94 TEAM. What argument are you trying to make? That the Twins actually won those games for him? This isn't a CC Sabathia case where the pitcher gets wins even when he has a bad performance. It's more of a case that the Twins didn't LOSE those for him. "Not something a pitcher has much control over" is a false statement. Who has more control of a game than the starting pitcher(s)? You allow 6 runs and there's a good chance you don't get the win. You allow 1 run there's a good chance you do win. Quite a bit of control there, but obviously not complete control.

I think averaging 204.5IP per season for 12 years is remarkable in itself. A 4.22 career ERA when you pitch that much is pretty great and also consider his career occurred during the the emergence of the steroid era. Kaat only produced 26-27 WAR in Minnesota. Ditto for Viola who only spent 1/2 his career as a Twin. Radke nearly doubles that with 45.6. Santana only pitched 8 years in Minnesota and gave us 6 great ones. I don't think that's enough even with him being the best pitcher in baseball at the time. Furthermore, I don't understand why you all are alluding to him getting more consideration than Radke after the trade debacle. Radke is the best Twins pitcher of all time in terms of value provided besides Bert Blyleven.

twinsnorth49
10-20-2013, 02:38 PM
Radke was a great player over his career. He won 20 games in a single year...for the Twins. Santana won the Cy Young in a year he won only 16 games. Take a moment to digest that one. Radke deserves to be inducted into the Twins HOF. Not the MLB HOF, but the Twins HOF? YES!


I'm not quite sure what we are supposed to be "digesting"?
Wins are a team stat, and not something that a pitcher has much control over.

If nothing else, this post illustrates how silly wins are as a valid metric for a pitcher's peformance.

ThePuck
10-20-2013, 02:42 PM
Radke won 20 games on a 68-94 TEAM. What argument are you trying to make? That the Twins actually won those games for him? This isn't a CC Sabathia case where the pitcher gets wins even when he has a bad performance. It's more of a case that the Twins didn't LOSE those for him. "Not something a pitcher has much control over" is a false statement. Who has more control of a game than the starting pitcher(s)? You allow 6 runs and there's a good chance you don't get the win. You allow 1 run there's a good chance you do win. Quite a bit of control there, but obviously not complete control.

I think averaging 204.5IP per season for 12 years is remarkable in itself. A 4.22 career ERA when you pitch that much is pretty great. Kaat only produced 26-27 WAR in Minnesota. Ditto for Viola who only spent 1/2 his career as a Twin. Santana only pitched 8 years in Minnesota. Furthermore, I don't understand why you all are alluding to him getting more consideration than Radke after the trade debacle. Radke is the best Twins pitcher of all time in terms of value provided besides Bert Blyleven.

The games Radke started that year when we won the Twins scored at least least 11 runs 5 times, at least 8 runs 13 times, at least 6 runs 16 times. As far as his wins specifically, 16 times at least 5 runs scored.

Compare that to someone like King Felix who went 13-12 one season, while having 30 quality starts out of his 34 start. His team only scored more than 6 runs 3 times. In his 13 wins specifically, they only scored at least 5 runs 4 times.

ThePuck
10-20-2013, 02:51 PM
If nothing else, this post illustrates how silly wins are as a valid metric for a pitcher's peformance.

Santana never won the CY Young while having only 16 wins.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
10-20-2013, 02:51 PM
The games Radke started that year when we won that year the Twins scored at least least 11 runs 5 times, at least 8 runs 13 times, at least 6 runs 16 times.

Compare that to someone like King Felix who went 13-12 one season, while having 30 quality starts out of his 34 start. His team only scored more than 6 runs 3 times.

The Twins also lost 10 games where Radke provided Quality Starts. Only 2 of those being the bare minimum 6IP, 3 ER. Actually that's 2004, forgive me.

benchwarmerjim
10-20-2013, 02:52 PM
Radke won 20 games on a 68-94 TEAM. What argument are you trying to make? That the Twins actually won those games for him? This isn't a CC Sabathia case where the pitcher gets wins even when he has a bad performance. It's more of a case that the Twins didn't LOSE those for him. "Not something a pitcher has much control over" is a false statement. Who has more control of a game than the starting pitcher(s)? You allow 6 runs and there's a good chance you don't get the win. You allow 1 run there's a good chance you do win. Quite a bit of control there, but obviously not complete control.


what about the years he went 12-14, 11-6 etc with essentially the same bad talent on the mid to late 90s?

Radke was good. Very good. He is in the Twins HoF. He wont be forgotten by those who followed the team from the doldrums to the playoffs. He just doesnt have enough (no Cy Youngs, no leading the team to a World Series, etc) to reach 'retire number' status.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
10-20-2013, 02:59 PM
The games Radke started that year when we won the Twins scored at least least 11 runs 5 times, at least 8 runs 13 times, at least 6 runs 16 times. As far as his wins specifically, 16 times at least 5 runs scored.

Compare that to someone like King Felix who went 13-12 one season, while having 30 quality starts out of his 34 start. His team only scored more than 6 runs 3 times. In his 13 wins specifically, they only scored at least 5 runs 4 times.

Radke's numbers in games he won
1.97 ERA, .923 WHIP, 4.35 K/BB, 4 CG

ThePuck
10-20-2013, 03:03 PM
The Twins also lost 10 games where Radke provided Quality Starts. Only 2 of those being the bare minimum 6IP, 3 ER. Actually that's 2004, forgive me.

No one is saying he didn't pitch very well that year...what we're saying is win/losses is a bad barometer to judge pitching. Wins should just be a team stat.

ThePuck
10-20-2013, 03:04 PM
Radke's numbers in games he won
1.97 ERA, .923 WHIP, 4.35 K/BB, 4 CG


and he would have won those games anyway with ALL the run support he got. Again, no one is saying he didn't pitch well, but he got huge run support.

Now, pointing to the stats you're pointing to NOW, in this post, those are some numbers to sink your teeth into.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
10-20-2013, 03:06 PM
Random tidbit since we're talking about him. Bronson Arroyo is basically a poor man's Brad Radke. And he makes 10 million+ a year. Sure contracts aren't a good metric, but it's something to consider. Especially because Arroyo earns that money.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
10-20-2013, 03:07 PM
and he would have won those games anyway with ALL the run support he got. Again, no one is saying he didn't pitch well, but he got huge run support.

Now, pointing to the stats you're pointing to NOW, in this post, those are some numbers to sink your teeth into.

Like right now? ;)

ThePuck
10-20-2013, 03:09 PM
Like right now? ;)

I'm not sure I get what you're saying here...so, maybe :-)

YourHouseIsMyHouse
10-20-2013, 03:10 PM
No one is saying he didn't pitch very well that year...what we're saying is win/losses is a bad barometer to judge pitching. Wins should just be a team stat.

I agree with that and I hardly put any value on them either unless they stick out like that season. Wins aren't an impressive stat, but when you get wins in nearly 1/3 of your teams' games, that is impressive.

ThePuck
10-20-2013, 03:18 PM
I agree with that and I hardly put any value on them either unless they stick out like that season. Wins aren't an impressive stat, but when you get wins in nearly 1/3 of your teams' games, that is impressive.

No one is saying it isn't...or at least I'm not, but with the run support he got in those games, he was gonna win a huge chunk anyway. He did his part, for sure, in 18 of those wins. In 2005, Santana had 10 no decision. 8 of those were quality starts. The other two, he gave up 4. With run support like Radke got when he won 20, Santana very likely gets at least 20 instead of being stuck at 16.

twinsnorth49
10-20-2013, 03:34 PM
Santana never won the CY Young while having only 16 wins.
Yes I know, it' silly regardless...wins, not the poster.

USAFChief
10-20-2013, 03:49 PM
I'm opposed to retiring Radke's number. At least until I'm convinced he couldn't still crack the current team's rotation.

nicksaviking
10-20-2013, 05:34 PM
Random tidbit since we're talking about him. Bronson Arroyo is basically a poor man's Brad Radke. And he makes 10 million+ a year. Sure contracts aren't a good metric, but it's something to consider. Especially because Arroyo earns that money.

I don't understand the argument. Arroyo will not and should not be considered for number retirement. Ever. Radke got exactly two HOF votes. He is not an all time great player.

raindog
10-20-2013, 05:58 PM
I'm opposed to retiring Radke's number. At least until I'm convinced he couldn't still crack the current team's rotation.
Yeah...I would not doubt it.

cmathewson
10-20-2013, 07:04 PM
Radke was a great pitcher for the Twins. Blyleven and Kaat were great pitchers for the Twins and handful of other franchises. Maybe if his shoulder had not disintegrated at age 33 and he were able to pitch another seven years...

gil4
10-21-2013, 08:43 AM
Maybe if his shoulder had not disintegrated at age 33 and he were able to pitch another seven years...

He didn't seem to need that shoulder to keep pitching. What he was able to do that final year was amazing, considering he probably couldn't even comb his hair without pain meds.

SweetOne69
10-21-2013, 09:04 AM
I don't think that Radke's number will be retired, nor should it be.

Other that Oliva, Hrbek, and TK, all of the Retired Numbers are HOF'ers. Many believe that Oliva should be there as well and if his career wouldn't have been shortened by injury he would've been.

TK is the all time winningest Twins' Manager and led the club to 2 WS Titles.

The only real questionable retiree it Hrbek. Even though he is 2nd All Time for HR and RBI as a Twin, he really had his number retired for being a hometown boy and playing his entire career in Minnesota.

Marta Shearing
10-21-2013, 11:14 AM
Radke's the one who started this whole pitch-to-contact disaster. I propose a Radke jersey burning ceremony to lift the curse.

Marta Shearing
10-21-2013, 11:49 AM
Radke was a great pitcher for the Twins. Blyleven and Kaat were great pitchers for the Twins and handful of other franchises. Maybe if his shoulder had not disintegrated at age 33 and he were able to pitch another seven years...
Im still puzzled why he elected rehab over surgery when the injury occurred during the 2005 season. Could have used a healthy radke in the playoffs.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
10-21-2013, 01:05 PM
I don't understand the argument. Arroyo will not and should not be considered for number retirement. Ever. Radke got exactly two HOF votes. He is not an all time great player.

Radke is just about twice the player Arroyo is if we go by WAR, but their peripherals are sort of similar and they make a good comparison. Arroyo wasn't a career Red, Pirate, or Red Sox so there isn't a team that would really be best retiring it anyway. HOWEVER! Arroyo is a very good pitcher and one of the most underappreciated (at least not monetarily) in the MLB. Right now, Arroyo is the best at the "control game" method of pitching and that Radke was much better than that is cool I guess. My argument is that Radke was a borderline elite pitcher (never an ace) who spent his entire career as a Twin. In my book, the standards for number retiring don't start with HOF. It's these types of players that should also make the cut. Besides Puckett and Killer (not technically, but basically), there isn't one HOF Twin that spent all their seasons here. A career of very good, borderline elite to me is pretty close value to a HOF with a majority of time in Minnesota.

SweetOne69
10-21-2013, 01:33 PM
Radke is just about twice the player Arroyo is if we go by WAR, but their peripherals are sort of similar and they make a good comparison. Arroyo wasn't a career Red, Pirate, or Red Sox so there isn't a team that would really be best retiring it anyway. HOWEVER! Arroyo is a very good pitcher and one of the most underappreciated (at least not monetarily) in the MLB. Right now, Arroyo is the best at the "control game" method of pitching and that Radke was much better than that is cool I guess. My argument is that Radke was a borderline elite pitcher (never an ace) who spent his entire career as a Twin. In my book, the standards for number retiring don't start with HOF. It's these types of players that should also make the cut. Besides Puckett and Killer (not technically, but basically), there isn't one HOF Twin that spent all their seasons here. A career of very good, borderline elite to me is pretty close value to a HOF with a majority of time in Minnesota.

I disagree. That is what the Team's HOF is for, to acknowledge players that performed exceptionally well while playing for them.

A retired # should be a rare event and other than for special circumstances MLB HOF status should be required to have your number considered for retirement. After all there are only a limited quantity of numbers available (around 100) and 30+ are required to for the team and staff.

nicksaviking
10-21-2013, 01:38 PM
The Astros have retired nine numbers. I remeber going to a game, which was before Bagwell and Biggio had retired and thinking it was kind of embarassing that the Astros had six numbers retired and only Nolan Ryan was anything close to an all time great.

Similarly aged franchises like the Royals and Mets have only retired three numbers, the Brewers only four, the Rangers one. Wade Boggs and pre-steroid Roger Clemens haven't even gotten their numbers retired by the Red Sox.

Radke wasn't elite, he was never close to elite, he was just very good. I'd be embarassed if we as Twins fans retired his number, basically telling the rest of the baseball world, "This is the best we've contributed to our sport."

I think the notion that he spent his entire career with one club isn't a very good qualifyer for this distinction. After all, it's not their fault that Kaat, Perry, Viola and Santana got traded. They were all better players and if Radke got his number retired, it would mean the Twins would need to retire about a dozen more that are better than him.

zchrz
10-21-2013, 01:46 PM
After trying so hard to make a Radke clone out of all the soft tossing control pitchers they have drafted and aquired, once one finally succeeds they want to be able to slap a Radke jersey on him and "say see hes back, Terry Ryan/ Rick Anderson know what they are doing."

SweetOne69
10-21-2013, 03:28 PM
During their tenures as Twins, Radke and Blyleven had similar W/L records (Blyleven had 1 more win and Radke 1 more Loss). They also pitched similar innings (Bert had 100 more IP). But Radke's ERA was almost 1 run higher and Bert had about 600 more K's.

To be honest, while I enjoyed watch Radke pitch, he was basically a league average pitcher.

ThePuck
10-21-2013, 03:37 PM
During their tenures as Twins, Radke and Blyleven had similar W/L records (Blyleven had 1 more win and Radke 1 more Loss). They also pitched similar innings (Bert had 100 more IP). But Radke's ERA was almost 1 run higher and Bert had about 600 more K's.

To be honest, while I enjoyed watch Radke pitch, he was basically a league average pitcher.

In fairness, they pitched in two different eras. Bert's ERA+ as a Twins was 118, Radke's was 113 and Radke pitched in the steroid era. Not saying Radke was as good as Bert, but a 113 ERA+ for a career is a bit better than league average. Jack Morris only had an ERA+ of 105.

snepp
10-21-2013, 08:27 PM
In fairness, they pitched in two different eras. Bert's ERA+ as a Twins was 118, Radke's was 113 and Radke pitched in the steroid era. Not saying Radke was as good as Bert, but a 113 ERA+ for a career is a bit better than league average. Jack Morris only had an ERA+ of 105.

And for the cybermetricians in the house, 2 WAR would be an "average" starter. Radke eclipsed that mark nearly every season, while averaging a little better than 3.5 per season for his career.

He certainly wasn't "basically a league average pitcher."

YourHouseIsMyHouse
10-21-2013, 10:23 PM
The Astros have retired nine numbers. I remeber going to a game, which was before Bagwell and Biggio had retired and thinking it was kind of embarassing that the Astros had six numbers retired and only Nolan Ryan was anything close to an all time great.

Similarly aged franchises like the Royals and Mets have only retired three numbers, the Brewers only four, the Rangers one. Wade Boggs and pre-steroid Roger Clemens haven't even gotten their numbers retired by the Red Sox.

Radke wasn't elite, he was never close to elite, he was just very good. I'd be embarassed if we as Twins fans retired his number, basically telling the rest of the baseball world, "This is the best we've contributed to our sport."

I think the notion that he spent his entire career with one club isn't a very good qualifyer for this distinction. After all, it's not their fault that Kaat, Perry, Viola and Santana got traded. They were all better players and if Radke got his number retired, it would mean the Twins would need to retire about a dozen more that are better than him.

About a dozen more when he's #6 in Twins WAR?

John Bonnes
10-21-2013, 10:37 PM
I think a Radke was a great pitcher - not HOF level, but great. But retired numbers for this franchise have, with the exception of hometown Hrbek, been HOF-caliber players. Radke isn't that.

But anyone who is one of the top 5 or 10 pitchers all-time for a 50 year franchise gets to be recognized as "great."

stringer bell
10-21-2013, 11:00 PM
Radke belongs in the Twins Hall of Fame without question. No more, no less. Please let's stop being slaves to WAR. It is one measure, but I don't think it is the be-all or end-all.