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PseudoSABR
10-05-2013, 09:48 PM
Sometimes the rumors are right. The Twins have acquired (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/10/twins-acquire-duke-welker.html) Duke Welker to finish the Morneau deal.

At twenty-seven years young, Welker struck out 9.3 per nine innings for a questionably meaningful ERA of 3.57 over sixty three AAA innings.

Welp. He seems like a good find in a deep Pirates bullpen, but it seems like a guy who should be scooped up on a waiver wire and not in a trade for a former MVP.

diehardtwinsfan
10-05-2013, 10:22 PM
Again, I really don't know what we were expecting to get for Justin. 2 guys who look like they can contribute at the ML level, and might actually have a small amount of upside isn't bad at all for a couple months rental. The Pirates were bidding against themselves, so they didn't exactly have competition.

Brandon
10-05-2013, 10:42 PM
I like it when we get something for nothing. I would rather keep Morneau for his career or at least most of it then trade him. But since we did I thing a stop gap CF in Presley who will compete with Mastroianni for the 4th OF job when the OF settles with Arcia, Buxton, Hicks, and Rosario....Arcia probably gets bumped to a new spot but for now both Hicks and Buxton are not ready and Rosario is just a step away. Plus Presley keeps the Twins from using Thomas on the 25 man roster so that alone makes this trade a huge win for us. Welker is the next Tim Wood only healthy. He'll likely be the 7,8, or 9th reliever meaning he'll either just make the team or just miss making it. He does have the potential to contribute and be a part of the inexpensive, deep bullpen I've been talking about.

PseudoSABR
10-05-2013, 11:26 PM
FTR, I agree with you both. This was Justin's worth, and that the Twins found value in another teams surplus is probably a boon. Still (for me), the metaphorical loss outweighs whatever marginal on-field gain we can claim.

spycake
10-06-2013, 12:55 PM
Duke Welker is at least a much better name than Jim Hoey. Sounds like he should be a jazz horn player of some kind...

Badsmerf
10-06-2013, 02:07 PM
I like the trade in its entirety. Morneau is finished. I'd be surprised to see him get more than 1m a year next year (buy low for Twins maybe?). Getting 2 guys to add depth to the organization at positions of need is pretty good. These guys wont be building blocks, but they help add talent.

Alex
10-06-2013, 02:36 PM
I like the trade in its entirety. Morneau is finished. I'd be surprised to see him get more than 1m a year next year (buy low for Twins maybe?). Getting 2 guys to add depth to the organization at positions of need is pretty good. These guys wont be building blocks, but they help add talent.

Twins picking even that up is only worthwhile if they get rid of both Doumit and Willingham.

Badsmerf
10-06-2013, 04:35 PM
Twins picking even that up is only worthwhile if they get rid of both Doumit and Willingham.
Not really. Both will be trade bait all year. Hopefully they have good enough seasons to get a little better return than Morneau did. Doumit could even be moved this offseason. Willingham staying on the team does no harm, he isn't taking AB's away from anyone while providing some VP.

Alex
10-06-2013, 09:50 PM
Not really. Both will be trade bait all year. Hopefully they have good enough seasons to get a little better return than Morneau did. Doumit could even be moved this offseason. Willingham staying on the team does no harm, he isn't taking AB's away from anyone while providing some VP.

Morneau was actually very good against RHP this season and neither of those players were ever as good as he was.

Morneau, Willingham, Doumit all lack defensive flexibility. Doumit and Willingham are both used best as DHs. Factor in that Mauer catching is irresponsible and likely at 1B and you have two of the other three who should be sitting or providing major defensive liability somewhere.

So having all four of these players on the roster with not enough spots to go around pretty much starts the offense off where it was last year with no real additions.

I'd like to see them move either Doumit or Hammer before the seasons starts even if they don't sign Morneau.

beckmt
10-06-2013, 11:23 PM
Neither have enough value to be traded this winter. Just hope they get off to good starts next year.

ashburyjohn
10-07-2013, 12:35 PM
I would rather have had one player with upside than these two fringe players. Apparently that was not an offer on the table.

cmb0252
10-07-2013, 12:52 PM
Morny had almost no value so getting anything which might be on the team next year is valuable. If Presley can hold down the 4th OF spot and Welker is an average RPer we will have easily won this trade. The most valuable part of this trade for me is to see Morny in the playoff hunt. I have never been a pirates but I am this year. Hope he gets a shot at a ring.

Alex
10-07-2013, 01:28 PM
I would rather have had one player with upside than these two fringe players. Apparently that was not an offer on the table.

I agree but I think this was actually more than I thought the Twins would get for him.

Oxtung
10-07-2013, 01:47 PM
I would rather have had one player with upside than these two fringe players. Apparently that was not an offer on the table.

I don't think we could possibly know this. In fact I think the evidence suggests that Ryan wanted a player(s) that was MLB ready. There is even a quote from Gardenhire somewhere about it. When you start looking for MLB ready players their talent level drops quickly versus an A-ball level player.

nicksaviking
10-07-2013, 01:55 PM
I would rather have had one player with upside than these two fringe players. Apparently that was not an offer on the table.

Well that's not exactly something we can say with certainty. If free agency is an indicator, Ryan generally picks quantity over quality.

Either way, my biggest beef was the same as last year with the Liriano trade. I didn't much care that the return was so little, I cared that the Twins gave up two 40-man spots in exchange for one.

At the time, last year in my estimation I thought Hernadez and Escobar were the 36th and 40th worst players on the Twins 40 man, but even though both likely should have been options to be removed if needed, both would obvsiously be out of consideration for removal as Ryan would want to first try to get some value out of them.

Same this year with Presley and Welker, though to be fair I wouldn't rank either as low. Though that may have more to do with the nearly impossible to believe decrease in quality of the 40-man roster from last year.

diehardtwinsfan
10-08-2013, 08:39 PM
Well that's not exactly something we can say with certainty. If free agency is an indicator, Ryan generally picks quantity over quality.

Either way, my biggest beef was the same as last year with the Liriano trade. I didn't much care that the return was so little, I cared that the Twins gave up two 40-man spots in exchange for one.

At the time, last year in my estimation I thought Hernadez and Escobar were the 36th and 40th worst players on the Twins 40 man, but even though both likely should have been options to be removed if needed, both would obvsiously be out of consideration for removal as Ryan would want to first try to get some value out of them.

Same this year with Presley and Welker, though to be fair I wouldn't rank either as low. Though that may have more to do with the nearly impossible to believe decrease in quality of the 40-man roster from last year.

Presley and Welker are better than Hernandez and Escobar... that's for sure. I guess I still don't get the consternation here. I doubt we get more. I don't think the return is that bad in that Welker can likely be a decent reliever for some time and Presley is at worst a 4th OF with some pop, and could possibly "click" and suddenly be worth dealing for something. Getting that for 2 months of Morneau is quite fine by me.

ashburyjohn
10-09-2013, 11:26 PM
Apparently the word "apparently" has multiple meanings, and I did not intend the one that conveys certainty, but instead the one that supposes a level of doubt. Sorry for the ambiguity.