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View Full Version : Who gets a shot to start?



spideyo
10-05-2013, 04:34 PM
I think everyone's in agreement that we need at least a couple of starters from outside our organization, but I think at least a couple of our "fringe" arms are at least going to get a chance to earn a job in ST.

Corriea, Deduno, Gibson, Diamond, Albers and Worley are for sure going to be in the mix. Who else would you want to see stretched out in ST?

I'd like to see:
DeVries
Swarzak (although I think he's more valuable as a long reliever)
Duensing (see above)
Meyer
Mays
Pressly
Hernandez

howieramone
10-05-2013, 05:31 PM
I don't think Swarzak or Duensing with be used as starters unless the world ends. I would put Pressly in the same group, unless he doesn't make the 25 man roster. DeVries and Hernandez may or may not still be Twins. I would guess the rotation is: Free Agent A, Free Agent B, Correia, Gibson, and Pelfrey. There's a 50-50 chance Pelfrey is Free Agent B. If so, let the others fight out for the 5th spot and next man up.

iastfan112
10-05-2013, 06:30 PM
DeVries- yes
Swarzak - no found his niche in relief
Duensing - same, too big of l/r splits
Meyer - yes but I'd guess he might need more seasoning
Mays - yes
Pressly - no, declining K rates in the minors as a starter, reemerged as a RP
Hernandez - yes

I don't see there being a lack of room on the 40 man so I'd give Hendriks his last shot to stick. Maybe Darnell as well?

diehardtwinsfan
10-05-2013, 06:31 PM
I suspect Pressly heads to the minors. He served his year time, now they will burn his first option and have him starting in Rochester. As for who I expect to be starting... Gibson and Corriea for sure. I'm hoping that they have at the least added Tanaka to that mix, and possibly Hughes as well. For the fifth spot, I'd go with Deduno or Worley. I'm leaning towards Worley presently.

darin617
10-05-2013, 11:25 PM
If there is not 2 QUALITY free agents added to this staff be prepared for another 90+ loss season.

Riverbrian
10-05-2013, 11:36 PM
I don't think Swarzak or Duensing with be used as starters unless the world ends. I would put Pressly in the same group, unless he doesn't make the 25 man roster. DeVries and Hernandez may or may not still be Twins. I would guess the rotation is: Free Agent A, Free Agent B, Correia, Gibson, and Pelfrey. There's a 50-50 chance Pelfrey is Free Agent B. If so, let the others fight out for the 5th spot and next man up.

Psst... You left out Deduno. 100 innings with a 3.83 is decent and I think he fell to 3.83 because his shoulder was bugging him.

spideyo
10-06-2013, 03:04 AM
I'm strictly wondering about who even gets an invite to come to ST as a starter. I'm not even going to begin to guess at what Terry Ryan will do in FA or trades.

Joe A. Preusser
10-06-2013, 06:58 AM
FA/INT - #2 (Please, please, for the love of all that is holy sign Tanaka)
Pelfrey - #4
Correia - #4
Diamond - #4
Gibson - #3/4
Worley - #3/4
Deduno - #3/4

A rotation made up of these guys could be good enough to bridge the gap to our up and coming guys if everyone stays healthy and pitches to their potential. I honestly would be happy if we sign just ONE quality starting pitcher (TANAKA) and bring back Pelf on a reasonable 2 year. I expect Gibson and Worley and Diamond to have nice bounce back seasons (ok, at least one of them).

Alex
10-06-2013, 08:15 AM
I don't think Swarzak or Duensing with be used as starters unless the world ends. I would put Pressly in the same group, unless he doesn't make the 25 man roster. DeVries and Hernandez may or may not still be Twins. I would guess the rotation is: Free Agent A, Free Agent B, Correia, Gibson, and Pelfrey. There's a 50-50 chance Pelfrey is Free Agent B. If so, let the others fight out for the 5th spot and next man up.

I think/hope this is the case, but Deduno will probably get a nod ahead of Gibson to start the seasonunless Gibson shows a lot of improvement in the offseason.

Thrylos
10-06-2013, 10:05 AM
FA/INT - #2 (Please, please, for the love of all that is holy sign Tanaka)
Pelfrey - #4
Correia - #4
Diamond - #4
Gibson - #3/4
Worley - #3/4
Deduno - #3/4

A rotation made up of these guys could be good enough to bridge the gap to our up and coming guys if everyone stays healthy and pitches to their potential. I honestly would be happy if we sign just ONE quality starting pitcher (TANAKA) and bring back Pelf on a reasonable 2 year. I expect Gibson and Worley and Diamond to have nice bounce back seasons (ok, at least one of them).

I think that Gibson will be better. Worley's got to be better. He was out of shape (so bad that it screwed his mechanics) and hurt. I am not sure about Diamond. His 2013 was just like his 2011 and given his limited stuff, I think that 2012 was probably the aberration here.

Unless they trade Correia, he is in. I'd pencil in Gibson and Worley. I hope they get 2 FAs better than Correia and Ps who could be on top of most rotations, and that is the rotation. Correia is a place holder for Meyer in 2014 and this is it until someone from the minors really steps up. This could be a competitive rotation, depending who they bring on board...

howieramone
10-06-2013, 10:14 AM
Psst... You left out Deduno. 100 innings with a 3.83 is decent and I think he fell to 3.83 because his shoulder was bugging him.RB, you're probably right. I've been conditioned to where when I hear shoulder surgery, I cross the name off the list and go to the next warm body.

ThePuck
10-06-2013, 10:17 AM
FA/INT - #2 (Please, please, for the love of all that is holy sign Tanaka)
Pelfrey - #4
Correia - #4
Diamond - #4
Gibson - #3/4
Worley - #3/4
Deduno - #3/4

A rotation made up of these guys could be good enough to bridge the gap to our up and coming guys if everyone stays healthy and pitches to their potential. I honestly would be happy if we sign just ONE quality starting pitcher (TANAKA) and bring back Pelf on a reasonable 2 year. I expect Gibson and Worley and Diamond to have nice bounce back seasons (ok, at least one of them).

If you don't mind having the worst rotation in baseball and losing 95+ games again, then that rotation will be fine.

nicksaviking
10-06-2013, 10:19 AM
FA/INT - #2 (Please, please, for the love of all that is holy sign Tanaka)


I too would FAINT in shock if the Twins signed Tanaka.

twinsnorth49
10-06-2013, 11:16 AM
Please, please, for the love of all that is holy do not even consider Swarzak or Duensing as starters next year.

Free Agent A (not Tanaka, c'mon folks do I really need to be the dreamcrusher here?)

Free Agent B (Pelfrey, sorry, this isn't a wish list however)

Correia (hopefully only until the deadline and then maybe Meyer, doubtful though)

Gibson

Worley/Diamond/Hernandez/Deduno (Unless they sign a FA lefty I doubt they go with 5 RH's, so Diamond or Hernandez, even Albers takes one of those spots, deserved or not).

Oxtung
10-06-2013, 11:33 AM
I have a gut feeling that Worley is going to be significantly better next season and win a spot during ST. Correia is a lock and I would guess we add 1 pitcher via FA or trade. So:

FA/Trade
Correia
Worley
Lefty (unless this is the FA/Trade)
Deduno if healthy or Hendriks or AAAA starter or potentially another 1 year carpy FA pitcher.

I think Meyer is a long shot to make the opening day rotation. I actually think May will be brought up before Meyer because of his options status. He burned his first year this season and will certainly burn his second next season whereas Meyer doesn't even have to be added to the 40 man until after 2014.

Mr. Brooks
10-06-2013, 11:36 AM
If Worley pans out to even be a #5 it will be a bonus, IMO.
I don't see him ever becoming more than a AAAA pitcher.

Oxtung
10-06-2013, 11:55 AM
If Worley pans out to even be a #5 it will be a bonus, IMO.
I don't see him ever becoming more than a AAAA pitcher.

Well he was well above a 5 in 2011 (3.01 ERA in 21 starts) and the first half of 2012 (2.92 ERA in first 12 starts). Then he got hurt, he tanked (5.80 ERA in last 11 starts) and had offseason surgery. Queue the trade to the Twins and the terrible 2013 year he had.

Do you think his arm will never recover from that surgery? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just curious.

Mr. Brooks
10-06-2013, 12:01 PM
Well he was well above a 5 in 2011 (3.01 ERA in 21 starts) and the first half of 2012 (2.92 ERA in first 12 starts). Then he got hurt, he tanked (5.80 ERA in last 11 starts) and had offseason surgery. Queue the trade to the Twins and the terrible 2013 year he had.


Do you think his arm will never recover from that surgery? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just curious.

His arm was fine this year. Show me one single link to where the team or himself claim anything other than his arm being recovered to start the season?
I always find it comically convenient when everyone says coming into a season that a player is coming off minor surgery, and is completely healthy and ready to go, but then when they pitch bad, they say, "oh yeah, I guess he was still hurt!"
He refuses to get into shape, even though he admits it hampers his pitching results. In his own words he just throws his arms up and says, "oh well, nothing I can do about it".
Regarding his ERA in Philadelphia, it was completely unsustainable. MLB hitters are simply too good, ESPECIALLY in the AL, to strike out looking that often (not counting Twins hitters). They were bound to make the adjustment, and they did.
He's basically Nick Blackburn. If he is completely on top of his game, and gets a little luck, he has a CHANCE to be a #5 on a mediocre team.

Of course, this is just my opinion, but it was also my opinion coming into this year, so it's not hindsight, and its an opinion that I got ripped to shreds for. It looks like I'll get ripped to shreds again for continuing to have that opinion, so I guess we'll just have to see his 2014 results to see if I made another "lucky guess".

Oxtung
10-06-2013, 12:14 PM
His arm was fine this year. Show me one single link to where the team or himself claim anything other than his arm being recovered to start the season?
I always find it comically convenient when everyone says coming into a season that a player is coming off minor surgery, and is completely healthy and ready to go, but then when they pitch bad, they say, "oh yeah, I guess he was still hurt!"
He refuses to get into shape, even though he admits it hampers his pitching results. In his own words he just throws his arms up and says, "oh well, nothing I can do about it".
Regarding his ERA in Philadelphia, it was completely unsustainable. MLB hitters are simply too good, ESPECIALLY in the AL, to strike out looking that often (not counting Twins hitters). They were bound to make the adjustment, and they did.
He's basically Nick Blackburn. If he is completely on top of his game, and gets a little luck, he has a CHANCE to be a #5 on a mediocre team.

Of course, this is just my opinion, but it was also my opinion coming into this year, so it's not hindsight, and its an opinion that I got ripped to shreds for. It looks like I'll get ripped to shreds again for continuing to have that opinion, so I guess we'll just have to see his 2014 results to see if I made another "lucky guess".

You and I went round and round last offseason about Worley's weight comments. I have no desire to rehash that argument but want to reiterate that I still disagree with your interpretation.

As for his arm and level of production going forward, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I won't rip you for your opinion. It has as much validity as my own. I sure hope I'm correct though!

Rosterman
10-06-2013, 12:16 PM
Hernandez and DeVries, if they stay in the organization, would step into the Swarzak and Duensing roles if either are traded or prove to be too arbitration expensive,

Badsmerf
10-06-2013, 04:46 PM
Is it bad I threw up multiple times reading this thread?

Correia, Gibson, Worely and probably Pelfrey will all be locks. I hope they sign someone with talent to supplement them. In favor of Pelfrey, I'd almost rather just let Hendriks get the ball and let him go with it. If he fails, they can just DFA him. I think the rotation will be better next year, hopefully in large part from a FA signing this offseason.

snepp
10-06-2013, 05:00 PM
Is it bad I threw up multiple times reading this thread?


No, it's a sign that your gag reflex is still working properly.

LaBombo
10-06-2013, 05:38 PM
For a fraction of a second, I thought the thread was about which Twins starter gets shot first. If it comes to that I hope they have the decency to take him out behind the barn first.

Willihammer
10-06-2013, 05:49 PM
I don't think ST is going to tell us anything we don't already know for most of these guys.

I'm hoping Gibson, Meyer and/or May, do well enough to displace some bullpen arms, while the rotation is supplanted by free agency.

GCTF
10-06-2013, 07:15 PM
For a fraction of a second, I thought the thread was about which Twins starter gets shot first. If it comes to that I hope they have the decency to take him out behind the barn first.

Not me, I'd pay to watch the stuttering, picture randomly freezing up festivities on MLBtv with Dickbert providing comentary. Well Dick, he's a "needs a ride to the hospital" type pitcher.

Spicoli
10-06-2013, 07:35 PM
Were gonna have probably 2 number 4s and 3 5s in our starting roto, unless they go out and get a 3 because we know they wont get anyone better.

Spicoli
10-06-2013, 07:42 PM
FA/INT - #2 (Please, please, for the love of all that is holy sign Tanaka)
Pelfrey - #4
Correia - #4
Diamond - #4
Gibson - #3/4
Worley - #3/4
Deduno - #3/4




Let me help you with this because you are waaay overrating some of these players.

Pelfrey-4
Correia-4
Diamond-4/5
Gibson-4(Has potential to be 3)
Worley-5/Minor Leaguer (Hes the worst of the bunch easily)
Deduno-3/4

And what makes you think the Twins will go out and get a 2 when over the last 3 years they have only gotten rid of our best players and cut the payroll in more than half? This year there aren't really any aces so the top pitchers will probably get paid borderline ace money just because that's all that's there which means the Twins wont even think about it. They will get another Correia or Worley.

Oxtung
10-06-2013, 08:37 PM
I don't think ST is going to tell us anything we don't already know for most of these guys.

I'm hoping Gibson, Meyer and/or May, do well enough to displace some bullpen arms, while the rotation is supplanted by free agency.

Why would you (or the Twins) put Gibson or Meyer in the bullpen? That seems very unlikely given the current state of the rotation. If they are good enough to pitch at the major league level out of ST they'll find their home in the rotation.

jokin
10-06-2013, 10:17 PM
I don't think ST is going to tell us anything we don't already know for most of these guys.

I'm hoping Gibson, Meyer and/or May, do well enough to displace some bullpen arms, while the rotation is supplanted by free agency.

Uhhh...first they'll have to demonstrate some "mastery" of the level, but second, and most especially.... "consistency".....(right up to the point that they wear their arms out).

Willihammer
10-06-2013, 11:28 PM
Why would you (or the Twins) put Gibson or Meyer in the bullpen? That seems very unlikely given the current state of the rotation. If they are good enough to pitch at the major league level out of ST they'll find their home in the rotation.
After what we just saw this last season I think it would be foolish to hand Gibson a starting job no matter what he does in spring training.

There's ~250 relief innings we'll need to make up if Duensing, Swarzak, and Roenicke aren't back. I think Gibson is a natural fit to soak up some of them. Meyer and May too, maybe. If Gibson thrives then he could be first in line to sub when one or more of the starters inevitably gets hurt. JMO

Riverbrian
10-07-2013, 11:32 AM
RB, you're probably right. I've been conditioned to where when I hear shoulder surgery, I cross the name off the list and go to the next warm body.

I don't like hearing Shoulder Surgery either... I feel better if you hear them say Elbow replacement surgery over Shoulder surgery.

All reports have been that the surgery went well and his agent expects him to be 100 percent for Spring Training.

Shoulder Surgery is scary for a pitcher and it's also hard to say 10 times fast.

Oxtung
10-07-2013, 01:42 PM
After what we just saw this last season I think it would be foolish to hand Gibson a starting job no matter what he does in spring training.

There's ~250 relief innings we'll need to make up if Duensing, Swarzak, and Roenicke aren't back. I think Gibson is a natural fit to soak up some of them. Meyer and May too, maybe. If Gibson thrives then he could be first in line to sub when one or more of the starters inevitably gets hurt. JMO

Meyer and Gibson have never pitched out of the pen before (except for Gibson during his rehab) and are expected to be starters for the team in the future. The rotation is going to have some pretty bad pitchers in it. If Meyer and Gibson are good enough to pitch at the major league level (regardless if it's out of ST or at some point during the season) why would you put them in the bullpen? How is that "natural"?

The Twins did that with a few pitchers during the 2000's but they were also in a pennant race and already had 5 pitchers they thought would be good starters.

IdahoPilgrim
10-07-2013, 01:51 PM
Meyer and Gibson have never pitched out of the pen before (except for Gibson during his rehab) and are expected to be starters for the team in the future. The rotation is going to have some pretty bad pitchers in it. If Meyer and Gibson are good enough to pitch at the major league level (regardless if it's out of ST or at some point during the season) why would you put them in the bullpen? How is that "natural"?

The Twins did that with a few pitchers during the 2000's but they were also in a pennant race and already had 5 pitchers they thought would be good starters.

I didn't take his post as meaning he thought Gibson should start in the pen - I took it as meaning that Gibson has done nothing yet to have earned a spot in the rotation, hence the need to see something out of him during ST before starting him at the MLB level again.

Personally I would hope Gibson earns a spot in the rotation during ST next March, but if not then I'd let him be a starter at Rochester again.

Mr. Brooks
10-07-2013, 03:36 PM
I didn't take his post as meaning he thought Gibson should start in the pen - I took it as meaning that Gibson has done nothing yet to have earned a spot in the rotation, hence the need to see something out of him during ST before starting him at the MLB level again.

Personally I would hope Gibson earns a spot in the rotation during ST next March, but if not then I'd let him be a starter at Rochester again.

I would think (hope) this club learned that anything you do in ST should not be a factor towards "earning" a job.
The atmosphere and quality of opponent are so entirely different than actual MLB regular season games, (in addition to the tiny SS) that literally 0% stock should be placed in ST performance.
ST is a time to work on pitches, face some live pitching, work on your SB jumps, work on pick off moves, practice turning DP's and hitting cut off men, etc.

gil4
10-07-2013, 04:07 PM
I don't like hearing Shoulder Surgery either... I feel better if you hear them say Elbow replacement surgery over Shoulder surgery.

All reports have been that the surgery went well and his agent expects him to be 100 percent for Spring Training.

Shoulder Surgery is scary for a pitcher and it's also hard to say 10 times fast.

Any ailment is scary for a pitcher who is effective due to a fastball with unusual, unexplained movement.

The best parallel I can remember is Scott Erickson - he was on his way to a Cy Young award, tweaked his elbow, missed a couple starts, and was never the same again. His heavy, sinking fastball that moved all over the place lost a lot of his movement. He spent the next few years trying to learn to pitch with the Twins and was finally adequate again for a few years with the O's.