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notoriousgod71
09-25-2013, 06:29 PM
Someone please tell me they just watched him homer and then get ejected. that was classic.

orangevening
09-25-2013, 07:02 PM
really?!? why? how?

biggentleben
09-25-2013, 08:05 PM
Too bad he couldn't stay in the game just to be plunked. That was complete bush league behavior. He shouldn't have made it around second base.

D. Hocking
09-25-2013, 08:10 PM
It is on the Yahoo MLB page - sounds like he admired his home run and then had some verbal interactions as he rounded the bases, and got into it with McCann at the plate -- benches then cleared. He never did have a self-confidence problem.

notoriousgod71
09-25-2013, 08:15 PM
Video: MIL@ATL: Benches clear after Gomez's solo home run | MLB.com (http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?topic_id=8878756&content_id=30934665)

I was watching the Braves telecast when this happened and Chip and Simpson even commented a little later how different the takes were according to the different broadcast booths. Essentially the Braves guys blamed Gomez and Anderson and Schroeder blamed the Braves. I'd side with the Braves on this one. While immensely entertained by this, Gomez acted like a complete psychopath. I can only hope we get to hear Telly interview him about this incident.

Brad Swanson
09-25-2013, 08:20 PM
Yep, no one has ever gotten caught up in an exciting moment and admired a home run. Of course, vigilante catchers literally blocking a guy from getting to home plate just to teach some veiled lesson about sportsmanship happens all the time. Frankly, I'm bored with having to see it so often.

All of the verbal interactions and acts of aggression came from Braves players. Who gets to throw baseballs at them?

Monkeypaws
09-25-2013, 09:02 PM
Make that Yahoo front page!

Go CarGo! Hate the effin Braves.

Seth Stohs
09-25-2013, 09:25 PM
Brian McCann just jumped toward the top of my favorite players list. Gomez - that was a joke!! Good for Freeman. And good for Reed Johnson, who I believe got a punch in.

biggentleben
09-25-2013, 09:32 PM
Yep, no one has ever gotten caught up in an exciting moment and admired a home run. Of course, vigilante catchers literally blocking a guy from getting to home plate just to teach some veiled lesson about sportsmanship happens all the time. Frankly, I'm bored with having to see it so often.

All of the verbal interactions and acts of aggression came from Braves players. Who gets to throw baseballs at them?

Really?! You obviously watched the highlight and not the game. Gomez has been jawing all series and was jawing at Maholm as he finally left home plate. That's what started the comments from Braves players around the bases. Freddie Freeman is arguably the calmest, friendliest player in the entire major leagues, so for him to get riled up, you know something was going on.

biggentleben
09-25-2013, 09:33 PM
Make that Yahoo front page!

Go CarGo! Hate the effin Braves.

Carlos Gonzalez had nothing to do with this game...

biggentleben
09-25-2013, 09:36 PM
Brian McCann just jumped toward the top of my favorite players list. Gomez - that was a joke!! Good for Freeman. And good for Reed Johnson, who I believe got a punch in.

McCann has had two excellent moments at the plate recently in home run situations. He and Jose Fernandez had good words (verified by both) talking about respecting the game after Fernandez's home run in his final start. Tonight was standing up to a guy who'd done nothing but jaw all series and then went way overboard from the second the ball left his bat.

D. Hocking
09-25-2013, 09:45 PM
Go Go in 2008 spring training, before he had played one game for the Twins. Humble from the start.

"I am going to create a lot of RBIs for (Justin) Morneau, the catcher and the other guy."

I suppose the other guy could either be Kubel or Cuddyer.

Brad Swanson
09-25-2013, 09:51 PM
I was watching the game actually. I've also watched Gomez plenty in his career. I'd say 90% of the time he's "jawing," he's talking to (or yelling at) himself. Gomez admired his home run. I'm willing to admit that he shouldn't do that. I will always consider that a lesser infraction than someone throwing a baseball at another person, much less a punch. I guess I just value the unwritten rules of humanity over baseball's.

biggentleben
09-25-2013, 10:01 PM
I was watching the game actually. I've also watched Gomez plenty in his career. I'd say 90% of the time he's "jawing," he's talking to (or yelling at) himself. Gomez admired his home run. I'm willing to admit that he shouldn't do that. I will always consider that a lesser infraction than someone throwing a baseball at another person, much less a punch. I guess I just value the unwritten rules of humanity over baseball's.

The whole fracas got weird as far as who was ejected and who wasn't, I'll give you that. Freddie Freeman was ejected for what appeared to be an accidental bump of Aramis Ramirez while in the pile, but Reed Johnson, who got in the best punch on the whole thing, was left in the game. That part didn't make sense at all.

That said, no one intentionally threw a pitch. Gomez was bringing a HBP from June to the plate against Maholm and started yelling at him as soon as he hit the ball. This wasn't typical "jawing" that Gomez does.

biggentleben
09-25-2013, 10:03 PM
Gomez did give this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h06SbTP3Bzs

Brad Swanson
09-25-2013, 10:06 PM
The whole fracas got weird as far as who was ejected and who wasn't, I'll give you that. Freddie Freeman was ejected for what appeared to be an accidental bump of Aramis Ramirez while in the pile, but Reed Johnson, who got in the best punch on the whole thing, was left in the game. That part didn't make sense at all.

That said, no one intentionally threw a pitch. Gomez was bringing a HBP from June to the plate against Maholm and started yelling at him as soon as he hit the ball. This wasn't typical "jawing" that Gomez does.

Fair enough, I wasn't aware of that part of the history. I'm just not a fan of baseball justice and I never will be. It's probably the part of the game I like least. I do feel I'm in the minority though. To each their own.

Monkeypaws
09-25-2013, 10:10 PM
Carlos Gonzalez had nothing to do with this game...

Who dat?

biggentleben
09-25-2013, 10:12 PM
Who dat?

He is CarGo

biggentleben
09-25-2013, 10:14 PM
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of that part of the history. I'm just not a fan of baseball justice and I never will be. It's probably the part of the game I like least. I do feel I'm in the minority though. To each their own.

Yeah, not a fan of the whole "justice" thing, but this had nothing to do with that. Gomez came up pissed that Maholm had the nerve to throw a 70 mph curve that hit his lower leg in June. He hit a home run and screamed at Maholm from the plate before taking off. Then he kept hollering as he ran, which is what engaged Freeman at first and eventually McCann at home. Really there was no baseball justice enforced here, just Carlos Gomez being a doofus.

notoriousgod71
09-25-2013, 10:26 PM
I was watching the game actually. I've also watched Gomez plenty in his career. I'd say 90% of the time he's "jawing," he's talking to (or yelling at) himself. Gomez admired his home run. I'm willing to admit that he shouldn't do that. I will always consider that a lesser infraction than someone throwing a baseball at another person, much less a punch. I guess I just value the unwritten rules of humanity over baseball's.

I like Gomez but I don't think there was any way he was yelling at himself. It was pretty obvious that he was yelling at Maholm the whole way and then McCann when he finally noticed him.

Unlike you, however, I found the whole incident awesome. An otherwise boring game is now going to be memorable for the foreseeable future.

Of course I like guys that have a loose wire like Gomez, Nyjer, Milton Bradley, etc. They make things more interesting for me while I watch the robotic Twins lose 95 games a season.

MichiganTwins
09-25-2013, 10:32 PM
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of that part of the history. I'm just not a fan of baseball justice and I never will be. It's probably the part of the game I like least. I do feel I'm in the minority though. To each their own.

Also, look at GoGos reaction to the first pitch in that at bat. I wish they would have beaned him after that pitch.

Brad Swanson
09-25-2013, 10:37 PM
I like Gomez but I don't think there was any way he was yelling at himself. It was pretty obvious that he was yelling at Maholm the whole way and then McCann when he finally noticed him.

Unlike you, however, I found the whole incident awesome. An otherwise boring game is now going to be memorable for the foreseeable future.

Of course I like guys that have a loose wire like Gomez, Nyjer, Milton Bradley, etc. They make things more interesting for me while I watch the robotic Twins lose 95 games a season.

Oh no, don't get me wrong, I love Gomez and his antics. Licking bats, yelling at everyone, getting excited, I love all of that. I don't enjoy throwing at people and whatnot.

biggentleben
09-25-2013, 10:43 PM
I think what's dumb is that next April, a Braves pitcher will plunk Gomez for this incident that happened 6 months previous.

Brad Swanson
09-25-2013, 10:44 PM
I watched the replay again and Gomez was yelling at Maholm the whole way. He definitely shouldn't do that. I was totally wrong about that part.

Brad Swanson
09-25-2013, 10:46 PM
I think what's dumb is that next April, a Braves pitcher will plunk Gomez for this incident that happened 6 months previous.

Agreed, and they'll do it even if Maholm is on another team.

righty8383
09-25-2013, 10:46 PM
Gomez had struck out 6 times in the series prior to this AB. How many times did a Braves pitcher show up Gomez after the punch out? I would guess none. If Gomez wants to show up his opponents he should join the NBA.

jm3319
09-26-2013, 12:11 AM
Go Go in 2008 spring training, before he had played one game for the Twins. Humble from the start.

"I am going to create a lot of RBIs for (Justin) Morneau, the catcher and the other guy."

I suppose the other guy could either be Kubel or Cuddyer.

This quote is awesome. That is all.

USAFChief
09-26-2013, 08:29 AM
Exciting!

Seth Stohs
09-26-2013, 08:31 AM
Go Go in 2008 spring training, before he had played one game for the Twins. Humble from the start.

"I am going to create a lot of RBIs for (Justin) Morneau, the catcher and the other guy."

I suppose the other guy could either be Kubel or Cuddyer.

Classic GoGo! Ha!

Jim Crikket
09-26-2013, 09:12 AM
Gomez was a punk when he was with the Twins and he's still a punk. I'm sorry he was ejected. I would have enjoyed seeing him get what he deserved next time he came up. Then again, since you really can't throw at a guy any more, the punch that got landed serves the same purpose.

I always have trouble coming up with a NL team to root for in the postseason, but the Braves and, particularly, McCann, are now at the top of my NL list. I love that he and Freeman and the others didn't let Gomez get away with that crap.

Obviously, McCann and Johnson should have been ejected. The fact that they weren't either speaks to incompetency of the umpires or maybe even they felt Gomez got what he deserved.

jimbo92107
09-26-2013, 09:22 AM
Too bad he couldn't stay in the game just to be plunked. That was complete bush league behavior. He shouldn't have made it around second base.

I don't suppose the pitcher stared at Gomez after he intentionally hit him in the knee with a fastball in a previous series. When there's a history, let the boys play. I wish the Twins had a player with that much fire in his belly.

Oh wait, they did. He wasn't good enough.

ThePuck
09-26-2013, 09:27 AM
Gomez took a wild swing at the pitch before the HR pitch, stumbling out of the batter's box. He stared down Maholm all the way back to the batters box, and when he hit the HR, he started doing all his antics the whole time around the bases.

I don't know how ANYONE can defend that.

ThePuck
09-26-2013, 09:28 AM
I don't suppose the pitcher stared at Gomez after he intentionally hit him in the knee with a fastball in a previous series. When there's a history, let the boys play. I wish the Twins had a player with that much fire in his belly.

Oh wait, they did. He wasn't good enough.

No, Maholm didn't. They showed a replay of when Maholm hit him back in June or whenever it was.

mike wants wins
09-26-2013, 09:31 AM
McCann is the one that caused it to escalate. He just went to the bottom of my list of favorite players. Grow up, and let it pass, don't escalate it. It's his fault, not Gomez's.

Jim Crikket
09-26-2013, 09:45 AM
From the AP game report (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/gameflash/2013/09/25/49790/index.html#recap#ixzz2g0frCV3I):

Gomez didn't blame McCann for blocking his path to the plate.


"If I'm a catcher, I do the same thing," Gomez said. "I try to protect my pitchers, my teammates. I respect McCann, all his players. I'm going to apologize to his manager, his organization, that it went that far. The adrenaline, the emotion takes it more than you expect."



That tells me Gomez "gets it" at least a bit.

Of course, he has every right to pimp his home runs any time he wants for whatever reason he wants. That quote tells me he also understands that, at times, there will be consequences for doing so. As long as he's willing to accept that those consequences can mean he might end up in a fight or get knocked down or plunked and, perhaps, miss playing time due to subsequent injury or ejection, that's fine.

ThePuck
09-26-2013, 09:56 AM
From the AP game report (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/gameflash/2013/09/25/49790/index.html#recap#ixzz2g0frCV3I):

Gomez didn't blame McCann for blocking his path to the plate.


"If I'm a catcher, I do the same thing," Gomez said. "I try to protect my pitchers, my teammates. I respect McCann, all his players. I'm going to apologize to his manager, his organization, that it went that far. The adrenaline, the emotion takes it more than you expect."



That tells me Gomez "gets it" at least a bit.

Of course, he has every right to pimp his home runs any time he wants for whatever reason he wants. That quote tells me he also understands that, at times, there will be consequences for doing so. As long as he's willing to accept that those consequences can mean he might end up in a fight or get knocked down or plunked and, perhaps, miss playing time due to subsequent injury or ejection, that's fine.



Him getting it is one possibility. Another possibility is that his manager, teammates or the combo let him know how wrong it was and he was told to do the political dance.

kydoty
09-26-2013, 12:22 PM
Gomez did nothing wrong. He can jaw all he wants, and it's your fault if you let it get to you. I've always believed that if you don't want people showing you up, then stop them. This isn't high school or college, these people are getting paid. If they **** up, they deserve the embarrassment coming to them.

But good to know that whenever someone hits a home run against the Braves, model citizen Brian McCann will be waiting for them to let them know if they "did it the right way" or not.

And between intentionally obstructing Gomez from getting to home plate and being the instigator of the fight, how the hell did McCann not get thrown out of the game?

TheLeviathan
09-26-2013, 01:35 PM
This whole thing gets avoided without unwritten rules. A pitcher can retaliate and show up a hitter for any perceived infraction, but a hitter takes out frustration and he's demonized. Not saying Gomez was justified, but these ass backwards quasi-rules literally create these moments out of nothing.

mike wants wins
09-26-2013, 04:16 PM
Makes me sad people think throwing balls at people is a good idea....

YourHouseIsMyHouse
09-26-2013, 04:31 PM
If Sano got suspended 3 games for his HR, the Twins probably would have suspended Gomez for a month.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
09-26-2013, 04:46 PM
Makes me sad people think throwing balls at people is a good idea....

I could have swore taking 2000+ lbs/sq. in. of force + possible injury=Running your mouth? Doesn't help that Maholm provoked him.

SydneyTwinsFan
09-26-2013, 06:18 PM
Fair play to McCann for backing up his pitcher, but I can't see how he doesn't get tossed for doing it.

ThePuck
09-26-2013, 06:34 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how Maholm provoked Gomez yesterday, or at all. Unless, of course, every time a pitcher hits someone that is provoking the batter. Not only that, Maholm hit him in June and there was nothing then to suggest Maholm did it on purpose and he didn't stare Gomez down or anything. He just hit him.

biggentleben
09-26-2013, 07:57 PM
McCann is the one that caused it to escalate. He just went to the bottom of my list of favorite players. Grow up, and let it pass, don't escalate it. It's his fault, not Gomez's.

LOL, really? I hope you're trolling here. McCann was giving ground and reported that he intended to back his way to the plate and let Gomez score, but not until he got his words in. Gomez has come out to admit he was in the wrong on the incident.

biggentleben
09-26-2013, 08:09 PM
I could have swore taking 2000+ lbs/sq. in. of force + possible injury=Running your mouth? Doesn't help that Maholm provoked him.

When did he provoke him? Ever?

Maholm has gone inside on Gomez because Gomez launches toward the ball from a soft-throwing lefty. The best way to get him off a lesser fastball is to make sure he's not comfortable lunging. Gomez has been hit by Maholm a couple of times in the last couple of seasons, never above the waist, and typically on a sweeping curve. June was a looping fastball that hit him in an awkward spot, so Gomez held onto it. How is that Maholm's provokation?

MichiganTwins
09-26-2013, 09:30 PM
Gomez did nothing wrong. He can jaw all he wants, and it's your fault if you let it get to you. I've always believed that if you don't want people showing you up, then stop them. This isn't high school or college, these people are getting paid. If they **** up, they deserve the embarrassment coming to them.

But good to know that whenever someone hits a home run against the Braves, model citizen Brian McCann will be waiting for them to let them know if they "did it the right way" or not.

And between intentionally obstructing Gomez from getting to home plate and being the instigator of the fight, how the hell did McCann not get thrown out of the game?

No one is claiming the Braves were in the right either. Gomez clearly crossed the line and so did the Braves. There is nothing wrong with celebrating a homerun, but Gomez was taunting and probably deserved to be confronted by the Braves. Not sure how you think GOmez was in the right. You cant tell me it is just baseball that has unwritten rules. Back in the day, you know NBA players would have stood up to someone if they were that blatantly crazy.

gil4
09-26-2013, 10:04 PM
Gomez came up pissed that Maholm had the nerve to throw a 70 mph curve that hit his lower leg in June.

88 mph cutter is what I heard, but still, it was June. Get over it already. That said, if I saw McCann blocking the baseline like that I would have lowered the shoulder and gotten the brawl started a split second earlier. I don't know why he wasn't ejected, too. If he stays out of the way and says something as Gomez goes by, there's no brawl.

TheLeviathan
09-26-2013, 10:23 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how Maholm provoked Gomez yesterday, or at all. Unless, of course, every time a pitcher hits someone that is provoking the batter. Not only that, Maholm hit him in June and there was nothing then to suggest Maholm did it on purpose and he didn't stare Gomez down or anything. He just hit him.

And hitters get hit all the time for trivial stuff. Maybe if everyone wasn't so sensitive about things none of this would happen.

jokin
09-27-2013, 01:10 AM
Brian McCann just jumped toward the top of my favorite players list. Gomez - that was a joke!! Good for Freeman. And good for Reed Johnson, who I believe got a punch in.

What...someone is actually applauding an act of violence that is technically and potentially a prosecutable assault and battery, besides possibly ending someone's career? What Gomez did was typical insane Go-Go, but to some, his "just punishment" is apparently deserv-ed of a criminal asault (literally) in return? I don't get that....at all....I guess punching a guy out is just another one of those "unwritten rules"?

iastfan112
09-27-2013, 01:49 AM
88 mph cutter is what I heard, but still, it was June. Get over it already. That said, if I saw McCann blocking the baseline like that I would have lowered the shoulder and gotten the brawl started a split second earlier. I don't know why he wasn't ejected, too. If he stays out of the way and says something as Gomez goes by, there's no brawl.

Gomez acted unacceptably, no question but I have a problem with McCann here as well. Getting your say in at the plate like he did with Fernandez is perfectly acceptable but to walk up the line and physically impede the player deliberately provokes the fight that ensues.

Also think its unfair Gomez got suspended, as far I could tell he never got a swing in despite having Johnson take a shot at him. Punishment doesn't seem equitable.

scottz
09-27-2013, 07:28 AM
While Gomez was over the top, McCann and crew are equally over the top. 8/6/2013 Braves v Nats - Harper goes deep and they plunk him the next time up. Benches clear. 9/11/2013 Braves v Marlins - Fernandez goes deep and McCann stops him as he touches home to apparently tell him the right way to react to a home run. Benches clear. 9/25/2013 Braves v Brewers - Gomez goes deep and starts chirping about getting hit 2 months ago by the same pitcher who can't get him out, McCann stops him before he gets home. Benches clear.

How dare all these players hit home runs and watch them for a second (or two in Gomez's case)? We are the BRAVES. I am BRIAN MCCANN. YOU SHALL NOT PASS! The Braves are absolutely in the wrong as well.

Also, I've never been hit by "just" an 88 mph cutter, but I have been hit by a 70-ish mph pitch, and it hurt. I'm pretty sure getting hit by an 88 mph pitch would hurt. It doesn't forgive Gomez for his over the top-ness, but let's not pretend it is nothing, just because it wasn't a 96 mph heater in the helmet.

Also, isn't the bigger offense here that attendance at Turner Field is reported at 19,558 when clearly it appears to be more like 11,263? Way to support that division-winning team, Atlanta.

Alex
09-27-2013, 07:30 AM
I have a tough time with people making McCann into a hero and with the fact that he's the clear reason the benches ultimately cleared and likely didn't receive more than a slap on the wrist.

I've got no problem with him telling Gomez to run or even jawing with him the whole time but once he stood on the baseline, the outcome was inevitable. McCann is not the baseball etiquette police and the fact that he said he was going to step out of the baseline after he had his say really doesn't matter -- he's not entitled to that.

I don't really see anyone's actions here as admirable, just a big bunch adult men who were acting like boys.

071063
09-27-2013, 08:07 AM
Brian McCann just jumped toward the top of my favorite players list. Gomez - that was a joke!! Good for Freeman. And good for Reed Johnson, who I believe got a punch in.

Really? I thought McCann was a total douchebag. I think Gomez was out of line but I thought the Braves handled it very poorly also and McCann was terrible. That's twice he's done something like this after doing it to Fernandez of Miami too. He better sprint around the bases when he hits a home run or he is a huge hypocrite.

wavedog
09-27-2013, 09:04 AM
What;s the old saying...Stick and Stones can break bones but words can never hurt me but apparently words carried more weight in this fight. Everything pretty well covered here and while I can see how annoying Gomez can be and his jawing started the mess but I think the umps blew this big time. I don't see how you can allow McCann to block a runner from the basepath, instigate the brawl and not suffer any discipline. (Maybe the Twins can adopt this is a new defensive strategy - just block the runner from the basepath.) Normally you let the runner touch the plate and then you get into it. So the runner never touched home plate but the run counted but no one was disciplined for not allowing the runner to score but the runner himself was thrown out of the game? Doesn't make sense to me. Reed Johnson coming out of nowhere to throw a sucker punch at Gomez - he should be suspended for more than 1 game - maybe 5-10 games. Why was Freeman ejected? Why really was Gomez ejected? So now admiring a home run is an ejectionable offense or was it for mouthing off from the beginning of his plate appearance to his trot around the basepaths or because the umps don't really like him?

big dog
09-27-2013, 10:07 AM
The whole thing was pretty embarrassing. Gomez is an egotistical moron, and the Braves completely overreacted. I was surprised by the Gomez suspension, but he did his best to create a bad situation by yelling all the way around the bases.

I hope those arguing for more suspensions aren't the same people who complained when Sano was held out of several games for his home run stroll. You want professionalism, teach it in the minor leagues.

biggentleben
09-27-2013, 10:40 AM
People seem to think that McCann got away scot-free. He was fined (as was Freeman), not a huge amount, but he was fined, while Gomez and Reed Johnson were suspended for one game. A game that they get paid for even though they can't play.

Also, bringing back up the Fernandez thing over and over is just getting silly as Fernandez has said he was way in the wrong, and the verbage used by McCann as Fernandez crossed the plate would be more fitting in a proper English cup of tea than in trash talk familiar to modern sports.

Recalling the Harper incident is also silly. 95% of pitchers in baseball will issue a brush back pitch when a batter walks that long into a home run trot. That's just the way it's always been in the game. The pitch was not a head-hunting pitch, rather one at his side, like you're taught to do in little league if you're doing a retaliation HBP.

I'm not saying the Braves are innocent in all this by any means, but to state that there's some sort of reputation is hogwash. Nearly every team in baseball does exactly this, and some take it the step further of throwing high and inside. To the Braves' credit, the two times I can recall the high and tight pitch being thrown, Fredi Gonzalez has immediately removed the pitcher. In one instance, the reliever didn't pitch for a number of days following the up and in pitch.

Fatt Crapps
09-27-2013, 11:12 AM
Oh my gosh Reed Johnson is such a tough guy! Did you see how he went for the sucker punch and then immediately hid behind his teammates? So tough..don't mess with these Braves!

TheLeviathan
09-27-2013, 11:23 AM
Recalling the Harper incident is also silly. 95% of pitchers in baseball will issue a brush back pitch when a batter walks that long into a home run trot. That's just the way it's always been in the game. h.

Youre a smart guy Ben, listen to yourself. These are eexactly the arguments you just used:

1. Well.......everyone else is doing it!
2. It is how it has always been which makes it ok
3. He threw something tht could seriously hurt him the "right way" for having the audacity to shift himself in the batters box.

good god, that's Fallacies 101. We don't accept that from kindergartens on the playground but we justify professional adults with it.

Alex
09-27-2013, 11:30 AM
People seem to think that McCann got away scot-free. He was fined (as was Freeman), not a huge amount, but he was fined, while Gomez and Reed Johnson were suspended for one game. A game that they get paid for even though they can't play.

.

You get paid in the MLB for games you're suspended?

PseudoSABR
09-27-2013, 12:04 PM
While enforcement of the unwritten rules is unseemly, those that would rather that enforcement be left off the feel, would have to stomach a lot more of Gomez/Puig kind of behavior. If the goal is to get the antics off the field, without steadfast, on-field enforcement, baseball would be far more a circus.

Alex
09-27-2013, 12:17 PM
While enforcement of the unwritten rules is unseemly, those that would rather that enforcement be left off the feel, would have to stomach a lot more of Gomez/Puig kind of behavior. If the goal is to get the antics off the field, without steadfast, on-field enforcement, baseball would be far more a circus.

I think that's debatable,especially when it' those unwritten rules that got Gomez pissed off in the first place.

Also, consider that the enforcement of the behavior was far more of a spectacle than the behavior itself.

mike wants wins
09-27-2013, 12:27 PM
I like it when ballplayers admire their homers....so I'd be ok if that happened. Not sure why it requires someone to throw a ball at them if they do it.....if you don't like behavior, you should ignore it.

scottz
09-27-2013, 12:38 PM
People seem to think that McCann got away scot-free. He was fined (as was Freeman), not a huge amount, but he was fined, while Gomez and Reed Johnson were suspended for one game. A game that they get paid for even though they can't play.

Also, bringing back up the Fernandez thing over and over is just getting silly as Fernandez has said he was way in the wrong, and the verbage used by McCann as Fernandez crossed the plate would be more fitting in a proper English cup of tea than in trash talk familiar to modern sports.

Recalling the Harper incident is also silly. 95% of pitchers in baseball will issue a brush back pitch when a batter walks that long into a home run trot. That's just the way it's always been in the game. The pitch was not a head-hunting pitch, rather one at his side, like you're taught to do in little league if you're doing a retaliation HBP.

I'm not saying the Braves are innocent in all this by any means, but to state that there's some sort of reputation is hogwash. Nearly every team in baseball does exactly this, and some take it the step further of throwing high and inside. To the Braves' credit, the two times I can recall the high and tight pitch being thrown, Fredi Gonzalez has immediately removed the pitcher. In one instance, the reliever didn't pitch for a number of days following the up and in pitch.

It's silly because you say it is silly? I say it isn't silly. Touché! En garde!

I pointed out 3 cases (i.e., evidence) where one team was involved in separate instances of bench clearing brawls, and their role in it was the same each time (i.e., the team that gave up the home run). In two of those cases, Brian McCann instigated a confrontation at (or before) the hitter touched home plate that put the fire on the kindling that was laid out via the batter. It doesn't excuse the batters' actions, but two of those brawls don't occur if McCann doesn't put on his shiny "Sheriff of Baseball" badge (at least at the time they occurred - perhaps in the future). If you don't want it to be called a reputation, that's OK. Let's just call it a pattern of behavior in 3 separate, but similar, instances.

Listen, I don't care to argue about it, but my opinion on this is no more silly than yours. If a guy walks a little too long after a home run and the next time up, a pitcher decides to put one on his wallet, OK, whatever. I think intentionally throwing a baseball at someone is stupid, but whatever.

I also think it is stupid if anyone is teaching little leaguers to dot batters for any reason - I never was taught that in any league. Any time dedicated to teaching a pitcher to hit a batter should be re-allocated to teaching the pitcher how to keep a hitter off balance so he doesn't routinely hit the ball over the fence. Any additional time should be spent reminding a pitcher that sometimes a hitter is going to hit the ball over the fence, and that you shouldn't get your undies in a bunch over it, no matter how proud he is of himself.

Peace.
scottz

ThePuck
09-27-2013, 01:21 PM
I like it when ballplayers admire their homers....so I'd be ok if that happened. Not sure why it requires someone to throw a ball at them if they do it.....if you don't like behavior, you should ignore it.

If you saw the whole plate appearance, he swings wildly at the first pitch, and then stares down Maholm as he walks back into the batter's box and then he hits the HR...but it's not about the slight time he took admiring the HR, it's about how he's yelling at Maholm all around the bases. Gomez was upset about being hit in the leg 3 months ago...and there was no reason to believe it was on purpose. Is Gomez going to do that every time he gets hit by a pitch?

True, McCann shouldn't have stood where he did and all that...absolutely...but those thinking Gomez has no fault on this...yeah, I don't get that.

mike wants wins
09-27-2013, 01:28 PM
I didn't say Gomez wasn't at fault, if I implied that, my bad......Gomez definitely is partly at fault.

I was speaking in more general terms, I have no issue with Puig's admiring of homeruns, or celebrating when something good happens. I feel baseball is like the old skewl pilgrims and norwegians, it is somehow sinful to show emotion. I don't agree, I think the world would be better if we celebrated more, and repressed less.

but ya, yelling at a pitcher as you run around the bases is silly, but the best way to handle it is to ignore it. There is actually research on this as it regards raising children......

PseudoSABR
09-27-2013, 01:49 PM
I think that's debatable,especially when it' those unwritten rules that got Gomez pissed off in the first place.

Also, consider that the enforcement of the behavior was far more of a spectacle than the behavior itself.I think you're giving Gomez a pass; I'm not sure that Gomez gets to yap his mouth after he was plunked by a breaking ball months beforehand, I don't think that's an unwritten rule. That's ego.

More than that, our own Twins did held Sano out for several games for a similar set of circumstances. Clearly, pimping home runs and yapping while trotting the baseball is something teams don't want their players doing.

PseudoSABR
09-27-2013, 01:52 PM
I was speaking in more general terms, I have no issue with Puig's admiring of homeruns, or celebrating when something good happens. I feel baseball is like the old skewl pilgrims and norwegians, it is somehow sinful to show emotion. I don't agree, I think the world would be better if we celebrated more, and repressed less.There are many ways players express emotions without it deriding the other team. Silly little handshakes, the slop pile after a walk-off, fist pumps. But admiring one's home run, and taking a slow trot, while yapping isn't just expressing one's self, it is showing the other team up.

ThePuck
09-27-2013, 01:55 PM
I didn't say Gomez wasn't at fault, if I implied that, my bad......Gomez definitely is partly at fault.

I was speaking in more general terms, I have no issue with Puig's admiring of homeruns, or celebrating when something good happens. I feel baseball is like the old skewl pilgrims and norwegians, it is somehow sinful to show emotion. I don't agree, I think the world would be better if we celebrated more, and repressed less.

but ya, yelling at a pitcher as you run around the bases is silly, but the best way to handle it is to ignore it. There is actually research on this as it regards raising children......

When/if all the 'old school' stuff fades out of baseball we'll see change, until then, these players are taught things that are 'right' in baseball to do and 'wrong' in baseball to do. It's been ingrained in them for years and years. I'm not saying it's right, but when your bosses tell you all this stuff over and over, well, you work for them. Twins coaches are telling Sano it's wrong to pimp a HR and they punish him for doing so. Players have been taught not to show up opposing members and they laid out what that entails. I'm all for change, but it needs to change throughout the game and starting at the lowest levels.

Winston Smith
09-27-2013, 02:00 PM
I didn't say Gomez wasn't at fault, if I implied that, my bad......Gomez definitely is partly at fault.

I was speaking in more general terms, I have no issue with Puig's admiring of homeruns, or celebrating when something good happens. I feel baseball is like the old skewl pilgrims and norwegians, it is somehow sinful to show emotion. I don't agree, I think the world would be better if we celebrated more, and repressed less.

but ya, yelling at a pitcher as you run around the bases is silly, but the best way to handle it is to ignore it. There is actually research on this as it regards raising children......

Mike I think society in general is getting to touchy. It's happening on this blog for some reason. Maybe I'm missing the bad stuff but I've never really sensed a lot of nasty stuff here. We saw it a few years back when Howard started deleting comments at the Strib. It was common to have 200 comments during a game and now maybe 10. If I was in charge, which I am not, I'd do the George Carlin words you can't say on the radio and let people ignore whatever else they don't like.
The baseball unwritten rule stuff is really getting old. A guy walks slow after a homerun, allows you to throw a baseball at his head? You throw a rock at somebody and you'll go to jail. You throw a baseball at them it's standing up for your teammates. Seems silly to me.

TheLeviathan
09-27-2013, 02:25 PM
Of course Gomez acted like a schmuck. The difference is, pitchers show up, bean, and brush hitters all the time nd hitters re supposed to ignore it. A guy takes an extra second after doing something really hard to do....and he is always the clown. The unwritten rules are so lopsided for pitchers I don't blame hitters for taking offense.

its all nonsense and stupid, but pitchers do it and get away with it far more often.

nicksaviking
09-27-2013, 02:53 PM
I don't like the showboating, it annoys me. I like the reaction by McCann less though. Sure Gomez was showing Maholm up, but what did McCann think he was doing? He was blocking the path of the base runner twenty feet from home plate and not allowing Gomez to touch it. That sure as hell isn't one of baseball's unwritten rules. McCann was trying to make a spectacle just as much as Gomez was. Besides, before the HR, McCann and Gomez looked like they were jawing. When McCann blows his **** afterwards, it just looks like a sore loser as Gomez got the better of that battle.

What happened to being the bigger man? Do your talking with the scoreboard and the standings. Did McCann and the Braves really think Gomez' antics were going to make him look cool and admired by the rest of the baseball world? Let him look like a fool; arrogant HR trots will turn off 90% of the people every time.

jokin
09-27-2013, 03:05 PM
Of course Gomez acted like a schmuck. The difference is, pitchers show up, bean, and brush hitters all the time nd hitters re supposed to ignore it. A guy takes an extra second after doing something really hard to do....and he is always the clown. The unwritten rules are so lopsided for pitchers I don't blame hitters for taking offense.

its all nonsense and stupid, but pitchers do it and get away with it far more often.

Not to ascribe blame to Bert Blyleven, as he's a product of his era, but he actually revels in these unwritten rules from the days of Gibson, Drysdale, Nolan Ryan, er al.

Alex
09-27-2013, 03:21 PM
I think you're giving Gomez a pass; I'm not sure that Gomez gets to yap his mouth after he was plunked by a breaking ball months beforehand, I don't think that's an unwritten rule. That's ego.

More than that, our own Twins did held Sano out for several games for a similar set of circumstances. Clearly, pimping home runs and yapping while trotting the baseball is something teams don't want their players doing.

I'm giving Gomez a pass? Not at all. I think he acted like an idiot (see my previous post where I said I've got no problem with McCann and whoever else feeling like they can yap at him for being an idiot -- it was the blocking of the plate that was over the top). One person acting like an idiot does not require people to react to it in the same way.

PseudoSABR
09-27-2013, 03:23 PM
Of course Gomez acted like a schmuck. The difference is, pitchers show up, bean, and brush hitters all the time nd hitters re supposed to ignore it. A guy takes an extra second after doing something really hard to do....and he is always the clown. The unwritten rules are so lopsided for pitchers I don't blame hitters for taking offense.

its all nonsense and stupid, but pitchers do it and get away with it far more often.Ask Grienke about this.

Beyond the risk of someone charging the mound, a pitcher puts his own teammates at risk by throwing intentionally at a guy, and often there's retaliation, if it's in the NL they'll throw at the pitcher himself, if not it will be the catcher or the team's best player.

PseudoSABR
09-27-2013, 03:24 PM
I'm giving Gomez a pass? Not at all. I think he acted like an idiot (see my previous post where I said I've got no problem with McCann and whoever else feeling like they can yap at him for being an idiot -- it was the blocking of the plate that was over the top). One person acting like an idiot does not require people to react to it in the same way.You implied that Gomez was acting from the same set of unwritten rules, I'm suggesting he was not. That's what I meant by giving him a pass.

Alex
09-27-2013, 03:31 PM
You implied that Gomez was acting from the same set of unwritten rules, I'm suggesting he was not. That's what I meant by giving him a pass.

Gotcha. My point was that Gomez believed he was beaned on purpose, which is an acceptable unwritten rule under certain circumstances in baseball, no?

TheLeviathan
09-27-2013, 04:35 PM
Ask Grienke about this.

Beyond the risk of someone charging the mound, a pitcher puts his own teammates at risk by throwing intentionally at a guy, and often there's retaliation, if it's in the NL they'll throw at the pitcher himself, if not it will be the catcher or the team's best player.

True but by and large its still the hitters that pay the price for the pitchers nonsense.

biggentleben
09-27-2013, 04:39 PM
Youre a smart guy Ben, listen to yourself. These are eexactly the arguments you just used:

1. Well.......everyone else is doing it!
2. It is how it has always been which makes it ok
3. He threw something tht could seriously hurt him the "right way" for having the audacity to shift himself in the batters box.

good god, that's Fallacies 101. We don't accept that from kindergartens on the playground but we justify professional adults with it.

I have never said that I think it's the BEST thing to be done, but it's how it's done. A lot of baseball isn't logical - why do you pay for a player's decline, but he gets screwed in his productive seasons, for instance - but when you start biting that "this team is being meanie-heads", then looking around and realizing what really happened and how it relates to how that particular industry operates is required.

biggentleben
09-27-2013, 04:45 PM
It's silly because you say it is silly? I say it isn't silly. Touché! En garde!

I pointed out 3 cases (i.e., evidence) where one team was involved in separate instances of bench clearing brawls, and their role in it was the same each time (i.e., the team that gave up the home run). In two of those cases, Brian McCann instigated a confrontation at (or before) the hitter touched home plate that put the fire on the kindling that was laid out via the batter. It doesn't excuse the batters' actions, but two of those brawls don't occur if McCann doesn't put on his shiny "Sheriff of Baseball" badge (at least at the time they occurred - perhaps in the future). If you don't want it to be called a reputation, that's OK. Let's just call it a pattern of behavior in 3 separate, but similar, instances.

Listen, I don't care to argue about it, but my opinion on this is no more silly than yours. If a guy walks a little too long after a home run and the next time up, a pitcher decides to put one on his wallet, OK, whatever. I think intentionally throwing a baseball at someone is stupid, but whatever.

I also think it is stupid if anyone is teaching little leaguers to dot batters for any reason - I never was taught that in any league. Any time dedicated to teaching a pitcher to hit a batter should be re-allocated to teaching the pitcher how to keep a hitter off balance so he doesn't routinely hit the ball over the fence. Any additional time should be spent reminding a pitcher that sometimes a hitter is going to hit the ball over the fence, and that you shouldn't get your undies in a bunch over it, no matter how proud he is of himself.

Peace.
scottz

I'd be interested to know how much of those "evidence" games you watched because you really did a poor job of analyzing them other than highlight-based analysis. There's always more to the story than simply meets the eye.

scottz
09-27-2013, 05:57 PM
I'd be interested to know how much of those "evidence" games you watched because you really did a poor job of analyzing them other than highlight-based analysis. There's always more to the story than simply meets the eye.

Why, I watched the highlights, of course. Who wants to watch the Braves play? I kid.

Of course there is more to the story. There always is. My point is that REGARDLESS of what happened prior, there are 3 recent instances of the Braves involvement in bench-clearers and in 2 of them, McCann's actions at/near the plate are what *immediately* preceded the benches clearing. And in the other, Harper yelled and pointed at Teheran, but McCann again is the one who attempts to physically confront Harper. So...more to it or not, McCann is going out of his way to physically confront the (admittedly chirpy/cocky) batters. Pattern of behavior.