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Willihammer
09-03-2013, 04:04 PM
GS:

Passing
Att:
Comp:
Yds:
TD:
Int:

Rushing:
Rushes:
Yards:
TDs
Fumbles:

Willihammer
09-03-2013, 04:07 PM
GS: 14

Passing
Att: 550
Comp: 303
Yds: 3200
TD: 24
Int: 26

Rushing:
Rushes: 40
Yards: 225
TDs: 6
Fumbles: 8

TheLeviathan
09-03-2013, 08:00 PM
I predict: terrible and we no longer deal with him as QB.

snepp
09-04-2013, 01:05 PM
I predict: terrible and we no longer deal with him as QB.

I predict mediocrity, guised as "progress," leading to him being given a longer leash than he should be afforded.

TheLeviathan
09-04-2013, 09:27 PM
I predict mediocrity, guised as "progress," leading to him being given a longer leash than he should be afforded.

I predict you are more likely to be right....and it makes me want to kick puppies.

Mr. Brooks
09-04-2013, 09:40 PM
GS: 14

Passing
Att: 550
Comp: 303
Yds: 3200
TD: 24
Int: 26

Rushing:
Rushes: 40
Yards: 225
TDs: 6
Fumbles: 8

If he's allowed to start 14 games with those awful numbers, I would ask why we signed Matt Cassel?

Mr. Brooks
09-04-2013, 09:44 PM
I predict mediocrity, guised as "progress," leading to him being given a longer leash than he should be afforded.

I disagree.
This is the great thing about the NFL. There are no "scholarships" , as there sometimes are in MLB.
Ponder has no excuse this season. It's his 3rd season, and he has plenty of weapons. The best RB in football, a top 5 offensive line, a good veteran receiver who WILL get open (last year one of the prevailing excuses was that nobody was ever open, which is a pretty big indictment on the coaching staff, if true, considering that AD draws 8 and 9 in the box, meaning single coverage on every play), a top 10 TE, and couple of young weapons who both have a chance to be very good at their specific roles (Patterson as an explosive deep threat, and Wright as a poor man's Harvin).
Mediocrity will not be accepted this year. Ponder will need to take a significant step forward this year, or his career in Purple is over.

Willihammer
09-04-2013, 09:45 PM
If he's allowed to start 14 games with those awful numbers, I would ask why we signed Matt Cassel?

So they could move Joe Webb to wideout?

Don't ask me to explain the Vikings logic with QBs because I have no idea. I just get the impression they will sink or swim with Ponder. I predict they will sink hard.

Mr. Brooks
09-04-2013, 09:52 PM
So they could move Joe Webb to wideout?

Don't ask me to explain the Vikings logic with QBs because I have no idea. I just get the impression they will sink or swim with Ponder. I predict they will sink hard.

If they only wanted a backup for emergency purpouses, and weren't going to actually play him unless Ponder gets hurt, they could have signed any number of much cheaper backup QB's.
I don't think you can judge the current regime based on how Chilly handled his QB situation.
I was critical of Spielman originally, but I think at this point he deserves some credit. He's assembled a pretty good roster here, with some pretty shrewd moves, and I give him way too much credit to think he's just going to throw it away because he will have blinders on regarding "his" QB.
The Vikings consider themselves a contender. If Ponder is as bad as your numbers, he will be replaced after the bye.

Badsmerf
09-05-2013, 07:27 AM
I think he only plays 5 games. He's a terrible QB and will finally get put on the bench. I'll be glad when the Ponder era is over.

mike wants wins
09-05-2013, 08:35 AM
Man, it's like reading about Plouffe.....

I predict he's the 17th best QB in the NFL, but that Peterson is not a deity, only awesome, and the team wins 7-8 games, and they all blame Ponder...

Mr. Brooks
09-05-2013, 03:31 PM
Man, it's like reading about Plouffe.....

I predict he's the 17th best QB in the NFL, but that Peterson is not a deity, only awesome, and the team wins 7-8 games, and they all blame Ponder...

If he's only the 17th best QB in the NFL, he should get the blame. That is simply not good enough for a #12 overall pick in his 3rd year starting, and with the weapons we've surrounded him with.

biggentleben
09-05-2013, 08:45 PM
If he's only the 17th best QB in the NFL, he should get the blame. That is simply not good enough for a #12 overall pick in his 3rd year starting, and with the weapons we've surrounded him with.

Weapons?! You're serious? I am a big fan of AD, but what else? Don't tell me about a rookie receiver or a TE who only exceeded a measly 40 yards 5 times the whole season. Greg Jennings I'm not convinced on as the Packers don't exactly let guys go with significant value left to give. You cannot judge Ponder whatsoever based on his "weapons".

TheLeviathan
09-05-2013, 09:47 PM
Don't tell me about a rookie receiver or a TE who only exceeded a measly 40 yards 5 times the whole season. .

I think that's a reflection on Ponder, not Rudolph. Ponder has enough weapons, that's an excuse that has to stop. I can pretty much guarantee that if you put this group around an above average QB - they'd put up MUCH better numbers. It's just hard to post much more than 40 yards a game when your QB has difficulty posting more than that himself some times.

Mr. Brooks
09-06-2013, 10:04 AM
Weapons?! You're serious? I am a big fan of AD, but what else? Don't tell me about a rookie receiver or a TE who only exceeded a measly 40 yards 5 times the whole season. Greg Jennings I'm not convinced on as the Packers don't exactly let guys go with significant value left to give. You cannot judge Ponder whatsoever based on his "weapons".

Any of the good QB's in the NFL would eat defenses alive with AD, a top 5 offensive line, a pro bowl TE, a proven possession receiver like Jennings, and talented (though admittedly unproven) weapons like Patterson, Simpson, and Wright.

Maybe it's unfair, maybe he was a reach at #12, but fair or not, there are expectations of a QB taken #12 overall. If you just want a game manager, take a guy in rd 2, or trade down to the bottom half of the 1st round. If you take a guy 12 overall, he should be a top 15 QB, AT LEAST, by his 3rd year starting.
And yes, he does have the weapons to do that. How would you compare our "weapons" to the weapons that SEA and SF had on offense last year? Kap and Russel Wilson both had breakout years with as much or less weapons on offense, both were drafted as recently or sooner than Ponder, and neither were drafted as high as Ponder.

diehardtwinsfan
09-08-2013, 06:57 AM
This is a make or break season for Ponder. I don't see any other way to look at it. He cannot have games like he did during the middle of last season. He doesn't need to put up Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees numbers to win football games (assuming of course that Peterson is effective and healthy), but he has to at the least make teams pay for stacking 8-10 guys in the box. If he can do that, Peterson's goal of 2500 yards might not be unrealistic.

mike wants wins
09-08-2013, 11:48 AM
I guess I think football is a team sport, and you can't blame 1 player for wins and losses. Was Marino awful because hit teams didn't win a lot of playoff games, or maybe it was that the defense was terrible. I still remember people blaming Rodgers for the playoff loss against AZ, when the offense scored 42 points........but ya, my expectations for Ponder are pretty low.....and, since most of the QBs were taken in round 1, shouldn't all of them be good, by the logic above?

TheLeviathan
09-08-2013, 12:34 PM
In the NFL, no position has more of an impact on team performance than the QB. Yes, it's a team game, but the QB makes his skill players better or worse depending upon his play. Ponder is terrible and eventually the excuse-making won't have any choice but to accept it.

Afterall mike, wasn't it you in another thread that said you're interested in results not excuses? :)

TheLeviathan
09-08-2013, 07:00 PM
So yeah....he sucks.

SpiritofVodkaDave
09-09-2013, 12:09 AM
Ponder is dog****, I hope he breaks his arm ASAP

SpiritofVodkaDave
09-09-2013, 12:12 AM
Weapons?! You're serious? I am a big fan of AD, but what else? Don't tell me about a rookie receiver or a TE who only exceeded a measly 40 yards 5 times the whole season. Greg Jennings I'm not convinced on as the Packers don't exactly let guys go with significant value left to give. You cannot judge Ponder whatsoever based on his "weapons".
Yeah, that Percy harvin guy was certainly not a legit "weapon"

Ponder sucks, he can't make the throws, end of story.

USAFChief
09-09-2013, 12:46 AM
Late to the discussion, but put me in the camp that says in today's NFL, it's the QB who "makes" the weapons, not the other way around.

We all love watching AD, but you win in the NFL based on your ability to pass the ball, on your terms, and your ability to stop the other team from doing the same. Running the ball is a nice addition to an offense, not a basis.

Ponder is never going to be able to lead such an offense, IMO. Move on.

mike wants wins
09-09-2013, 08:26 AM
The offense scored 24....ponder was not good, but if your defense is going to be that bad (and they lose 3 DL after this year), it won't matter who the QB is this year or next....

TheLeviathan
09-09-2013, 11:27 AM
The offense scored 24....ponder was not good, but if your defense is going to be that bad (and they lose 3 DL after this year), it won't matter who the QB is this year or next....

The defense has nothing to do with his comically awful interceptions and inaccurate throws. Hell, his best pass of the day should've been an easy touchdown that turned into an amazing bailout from Simpson.

Blaming the D for Ponder is new, I will give ya that.

mike wants wins
09-09-2013, 11:56 AM
My point was, they scored more than most other teams in the NFL yesterday, and all anyone can talk about is Ponder......if the point is to score points, the offense was actually effective yesterday. I'm blaming the D for the loss......that was the point of that post. If the defense is going to be bottom 5, not many QBs on the planet can overcome that.

As for "bailing him out", I watched a ton of football yesterday, nearly every game had a WR make a great catch, that's what happens in the NFL. That same WR also dropped a pass right in his hands to create an INT.

biggentleben
09-09-2013, 01:32 PM
Yeah, that Percy harvin guy was certainly not a legit "weapon"

Ponder sucks, he can't make the throws, end of story.

Yeah, because I was talking about LAST season.

mike wants wins
09-09-2013, 02:06 PM
btw, I am not a Ponder guy, I wanted Fairley or Amakamura in that draft....Fairley was the guy I most wanted. That would have helped the AWFUL defense yesterday.....

Milkman
09-09-2013, 05:12 PM
The defense was not impressive from the get go and the Lion's themselves bailed out the D a couple time. But the Vikes offense is not doing the D any favors. Be it short fields from punts on their own 10yd line to turn overs at mid field or even worse. Not to mention the lopsided time of possession. That really wears on a D. Even when we do score it seems to be on big plays, not long sustained drives. That's the kind of thing that pays off at the end of the game. Keeping the Vikes D fresh and wearing down the opponent's D.

Kobs
09-09-2013, 05:43 PM
Talking Ponder after that game? Ponder is not Peyton Manning. Get over it. The defense and special teams were awful in that game, and they couldn't run the ball at all. You might as well blame a Twins loss on Pedro Florimon not hitting three home runs.

Something like 6 of the 8 times the Vikings ran the ball on first down, they got less than three yards. They can't win with that.

TheLeviathan
09-09-2013, 07:24 PM
Talking Ponder after that game? Ponder is not Peyton Manning. Get over it. The defense and special teams were awful in that game, and they couldn't run the ball at all. You might as well blame a Twins loss on Pedro Florimon not hitting three home runs.

Something like 6 of the 8 times the Vikings ran the ball on first down, they got less than three yards. They can't win with that.

You don't think a passing game with the roar of a kitten had some impact there? Hell, I'd play ten man fronts and dare them.

the loss may have been more on the D, but Ponder was absolutely a huge part of it. He isn't a capable QB, that impacts your entire team as proven by teams like Indy, Wash, Seattle, and many other recent examples.

Kobs
09-09-2013, 08:19 PM
You don't think a passing game with the roar of a kitten had some impact there? Hell, I'd play ten man fronts and dare them.

the loss may have been more on the D, but Ponder was absolutely a huge part of it. He isn't a capable QB, that impacts your entire team as proven by teams like Indy, Wash, Seattle, and many other recent examples.

So you thought what, the Vikings were going to have a great passing attack this season? To be the team they expect to be, they have to run when the other team knows they will run. Again, this is silly. The loss is not on Ponder. If you expect Ponder to carry the offense, and get upset when he doesn't, your expectations make no sense.

To sum up. Yes, not having better players impacts the team. Not being able to count on your supposed strengths impacts it more. The Vikings are paying for a running team with a good defense. If they can't run the ball, and they can't stop anyone, they will lose many games this season.

TheLeviathan
09-09-2013, 08:54 PM
If you expect Ponder to carry the offense, and get upset when he doesn't, your expectations make no sense.

I'd like him to not throw three interceptions - at least two of which were absolutely god-awful, unforgivable throws. One of which was at a pivotal point in the game in the first half when they were up with a chance to go up by 8.

I'd like that the team not be 2-10 in third downs. A competent QB, even working from a disadvantage, should manage better than that.

No one is expecting Peyton Manning. At this point he can't even manage to be Tannehill, Bradford, Alex Smith.

If he could manage competence, then you'd have a point. But he can't and the league knows he is an innaccurate, easily hurried, incompetent QB. Expect a lot of teams to make running the ball difficult for us for that very reason.

Willihammer
09-09-2013, 09:09 PM
The shear number of bad throws continues to astound me. Underthrowing, overthrowing, at the knees, at the back shoulder. Its pretty rare that you see him throw the ball on a line and hit a guy in the numbers in stride, and I can't recall a single strong throw, much less an accurate one, with Ponder rolling to his left (that needs to end, IMO).

mike wants wins
09-10-2013, 11:11 AM
That 3rd an one roll to the left: that was called by the coach.

The team is built to run first, and ran on first down 13 times, and only gained more than 3 yards 1 time (I think, it might be 2). The team that is 100% built around running the ball, that team that was completely shut down but for 1 play running, that team scored 24 points Sunday.

If I had told you that Peterson would have 3 rushes for more than 3 yards, how many point would you have predicted the team to score?*

*that is an estimate, I haven't actually looked yet....

TheLeviathan
09-10-2013, 11:22 AM
Mike, the running game will likely suffer all year long as teams completely ignore the passing game. I thought the most miraculous thing about Peterson last year was to have accomplished all that against 8 and 9 man fronts.

Ponder has an advantage the vast majority doesn't and still can't look competent. This is year three, the results speak for themselves.

Badsmerf
09-12-2013, 07:37 AM
I'm right there with you Lev. The Vikings, and Peterson, wont succeed with Ponder at QB. Teams have no reason to not play run every single play. Ponder doesn't find open guys, doesn't audible into good plays, can't make throws into tight spots, gets hurried easily, can't beat the blitz... I think I could go on for a while. He is, and always has been, a terrible QB. I can probably only count a handful of times in 2 seasons where I said "Hey, that was a good play by Ponder."

Last year was an anomaly for Peterson. Teams wont let him beat them anymore, they are going to play single coverage and stack the box. There is absolutely no reason to fear the passing game. Ponder might get a few big completions, but that is better than Peterson busting an 80 yard run.

TheLeviathan
09-12-2013, 09:36 AM
Agreed....and I was wrong above. We were up 14-6 by some miracle when he lobbed it to Detroit and they drove to make it 14-13.

He almost single handedly turned 17-6 (minimum) into 14-13 with a comically awful pick. Lets be done with excuses is my thing.

mike wants wins
09-12-2013, 10:33 AM
I agree, no way Peterson is that good again. No chance.

I don't agree that Ponder was the worst QB EVAR! last week, but I certainly understand the frustration (and I'm not a big fan of his, frankly, but I feel the criticism is a bit over board).

TheLeviathan
09-12-2013, 11:28 AM
I agree, no way Peterson is that good again. No chance.

I don't agree that Ponder was the worst QB EVAR! last week, but I certainly understand the frustration (and I'm not a big fan of his, frankly, but I feel the criticism is a bit over board).

Thats fair. You're right the camps are pretty divided on him. Personally, I hope they absolutely suck this year with the QB class coming out - this team needs another high pick to fortify QB and a few defensive positions.

USAFChief
09-15-2013, 01:50 PM
So you thought what, the Vikings were going to have a great passing attack this season? To be the team they expect to be, they have to run when the other team knows they will run. Again, this is silly. The loss is not on Ponder. If you expect Ponder to carry the offense, and get upset when he doesn't, your expectations make no sense.

To sum up. Yes, not having better players impacts the team. Not being able to count on your supposed strengths impacts it more. The Vikings are paying for a running team with a good defense. If they can't run the ball, and they can't stop anyone, they will lose many games this season.
The point of all that is...you can't expect to be a winning team in the NFL based on a running game.

When the Vikings admit that, and find a QB who doesn't force them to try and do that, it'll go a long way towards fielding a winning team.

Kobs
09-17-2013, 10:12 PM
The point of all that is...you can't expect to be a winning team in the NFL based on a running game.

When the Vikings admit that, and find a QB who doesn't force them to try and do that, it'll go a long way towards fielding a winning team.

If you believe that, then I assume you want the Vikings to cut Adrian Peterson as soon as possible.

USAFChief
09-18-2013, 07:19 PM
If you believe that, then I assume you want the Vikings to cut Adrian Peterson as soon as possible.
Yes, that was clearly my point.

Kobs
09-18-2013, 10:05 PM
Adrian Peterson takes up 10% of the Vikings cap space.