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View Full Version : Switching Gears: Eddie Rosario



Bark's Lounge
09-01-2013, 10:07 PM
With the emergence of Brian Dozier at Second base this season, it would seem logical to play Eddie Rosario in the OF 35%-50% in the minors next season… maybe even the AFL next month.

I understand that Rosario is more valuable as a second baseman, but I feel like his bat can play in LF and CF… strike that... it can play at all 3 OF positions.

If my memory serves me correct from tidbits I have read in the last 3 years, Rosario was thought to have the athleticism, arm and natural instinct to stay in CF and his move to 2B was brought on by a glutton of OF prospects and the faith the Twins Organization had in his athleticism to make a successful conversion to second base.

If Dozier is the real deal and he is locked in for the foreseeable future. It seems like this would be the correct thing to do as Rosario’s bat is just about Major League ready.

Excluding trades – what’s your take?

stringer bell
09-01-2013, 10:12 PM
Probably not a bad idea to give Eddie positional flexibility. Rosario's principal strength is his bat according to what I've read. I think it is possible that Hicks comes back next year like Dozier did this year, but he's not a sure thing.

Bark's Lounge
09-01-2013, 10:18 PM
Probably not a bad idea to give Eddie positional flexibility. Rosario's principal strength is his bat according to what I've read. I think it is possible that Hicks comes back next year like Dozier did this year, but he's not a sure thing.

I am still optimistic about Hicks also. Whether Rosario ends up playing LF, CF, or RF, if not 2B... it will get talent on the Major League field of play - something the Twins need and he appears to be a guy who can successfully transition back to the OF.

Thegrin
09-02-2013, 12:08 AM
I can foresee a Hicks, Buxton, Rosario outfield in the Twins future.

Erock
09-02-2013, 12:19 AM
Arcia?

CGNikolic
09-02-2013, 12:27 AM
I think he stays at 2B and our starting OF consists of Hicks, Buxton, and Arcia by opening day 2015.

jimbo92107
09-02-2013, 12:28 AM
I like the scenario where the Twins can trot out Hicks, Buxton, Arcia and Rosario in the OF, then also use Rosario to give Dozier an occasional break at 2B. It also helps that the new guy, Alex Pressley, can play all the OF positions and is a good lead-off hitter. Dozier's improved hitting seems to fit better second in the order, where he can drive in a high on-base guy like Pressley.

clutterheart
09-02-2013, 01:57 AM
Dozier is a good fielding second baseman with a little pop in his bat. Unfortunately the Twins offense has been so terrible his decent production has been elevated in importance. Couple that with the total futility we have seen in the MI for the last several years and his status has been elevated beyond what it should be.

Right now Dozier among all 2B ranks:
6th in Slugging
13th in OBP
14th in BA
11th in wRC
3rd most SO
UZR doesn't like him much.

Comparison:
Dozier at age 24:
AA 78 Games: .322/.423/.472
A+ 49 Games: .318 /.384 /.502

Rosario Age 22:
AA: 68 Games .288/ .337 /.420
A+ .52 Games 329/.377/.527

I like Dozier but Rosario projects to be better. Dozier gives Rosario one more year in AAA to learn field better, and learn to hit better. But Rosario should be left at 2B and Dozier should be moved or traded by 2015

stringer bell
09-02-2013, 06:37 AM
Dozier has taken huge steps since the end of May with the bat. Over the course of the year he has shown himself to be a very good second baseman defensively. I would argue that Dozier is closer to elite defensively than good. He has done this in the major leagues on a non-contending team with little talent around him most of the way. Rosario remains a very good prospect, who has adjusted well to second base while continuing to be a very good hitter in the minor leagues. One of these two should be the Twins second baseman for years. I don't think it is a mistake for both of them to have positional flexibility, but the bonus of Dozier's exceptional transition to a new position shouldn't just be sacrificed because Rosario moved to second last year. One, maybe both, of these guys could flame out. If both continue to progress, there is certainly room to get both of their bats in the lineup.

diehardtwinsfan
09-02-2013, 06:54 AM
I think you leave Rosario up the middle. OF is pretty crowded as it is with Hicks, Buxton, and Arcia the likely starters for most of the second half of the decade. Pressley is likely more the 4th OF but he's going to get a shot in the near future to earn it as well. I'm not sure how Rosario fits into that. I think it's more likely that he gets lots of time as a 2B/DH than him moving back to the OF. I also think it's more likely that Dozier switches back to short if he can prove that his bat is for real.

big dog
09-02-2013, 07:06 AM
Given Arcia's defense so far I don't see him holding down an outfield spot for too long. I'd count on him as the primary DH, especially if Dozier keeps hitting anything like his recent output.

Oldgoat_MN
09-02-2013, 07:12 AM
We have such glaring issues in so many other positions I think Brian Dozier keeps his job until this is a much better team.

If Rosario keeps hitting they will find a place to park him on Target Field.

Oldgoat_MN
09-02-2013, 07:23 AM
clutterheart - Go over your stats again, but do it here (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2013&month=31&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0).

You'll see that, at least to this point, Dozier is above Cano in WAR for the second half of 2013. And this is not just a SSS.

Not saying he will remain above Cano, but this kid has emerged as a serious player.

edit: And he's done this with the lowest BABIP of any qualifying 2B in the top 7.

Marta Shearing
09-02-2013, 08:42 AM
Arcia?DH.

mike wants wins
09-02-2013, 08:59 AM
I'd like to see more than half a year from a guy before I move a top 50 prospect to a new position......but it is nice to talk about this problem, compared to others this team has.

Leave Rosario at 2B for a couple of months of AAA, and see what Dozier does. I don't think there is a glut of OF.....so moving him there is not the end of the world. If this was Joe Madden, and their elite utility guy, I'd say go for it....but this is not that kind of forward thinking organization, so they need to pick 1 position for him.

Jim H
09-02-2013, 09:50 AM
I'd like to see more than half a year from a guy before I move a top 50 prospect to a new position......but it is nice to talk about this problem, compared to others this team has.

Leave Rosario at 2B for a couple of months of AAA, and see what Dozier does. I don't think there is a glut of OF.....so moving him there is not the end of the world. If this was Joe Madden, and their elite utility guy, I'd say go for it....but this is not that kind of forward thinking organization, so they need to pick 1 position for him.

I sort of agree with Mike, except for the cheap shot about the organization. Usually these things tend to work out. When Rosario looks ready to play in the majors there will likely be a spot open in the outfield. He will get to play some at 2b as well. If Dozier keeps looking good at 2b, well that could open up trade possibilities. I don't think I would be in any big hurry to move Dozier back to short. Florimon looks very good defensively, at times it looks like his bat could be adequate. I would like to see a bit of stability in the infield.

Leave Florimon and Dozier at short and 2nd until somebody comes along that is clearly better. There could/should be a lot of young guys forcing their way to the majors next year. Some of them have considerable questions surrounding their defensive ability. I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of defensive stability in the middle of infield.

Badsmerf
09-02-2013, 09:51 AM
Give Dozier another try at SS. Moving Rosario to the OF would be pretty knee-jerk right now. He is starting to field pretty well and get comfortable. How likely is Dozier to continue to hit like this? Plouffe had an almost .800 OPS for the first half of the year... his second half has been so abysmal that the entire board has grown tired of it.

You just don't move talent from the MI because some guy has had a good run.

Badsmerf
09-02-2013, 09:59 AM
Florimon looks very good defensively, at times it looks like his bat could be adequate.

His .622 OPS says different. He is what we thought he is, a bad hitter. By contrast, Dozier has a .737 OPS. They each have also been trending is opposite directions (Dozier getting better, Florimon getting worse).

The argument would really be does added offense of Rosario outweigh Florimon's defensive value over Dozier's at SS. I'm pretty confident that I can say Rosario is going to be a much much better hitter than Florimon, very likely even better than Dozier. So yes, I would take the offense of Dozier at SS and Rosario at 2b any day. Dozier's defensive improvement at 2b should translate to SS, he has the skills.

TheLeviathan
09-02-2013, 10:07 AM
Given Arcia's defense so far I don't see him holding down an outfield spot for too long. I'd count on him as the primary DH, especially if Dozier keeps hitting anything like his recent output.

This. Arcia is our future DH, the guy is somewhat reminiscent of Delmon Young out there. He just doesn't look natural, no matter what athletic skills he has.

Personally, I am hoping for Hicks-Buxton-Kepler. I'd like to see Dozier get a crack at SS again next year (it's a lost year anyway probably as well) with Rosario staying at 2B. If it works - awesome. If it doesn't, then we adjust.

Rick Blaine
09-02-2013, 10:29 AM
Dozier is now our top RBI and HR guy--- we have to keep him in the lineup.

MichiganTwins
09-02-2013, 11:05 AM
I think it is interesting to move Rosario to the OF, but I think that might create a future problem in the OF. With Buxton on his way, Hicks closer (hopefully) to being a major leaguer, and Arcia, I think added ROsario to that mix would be added a new problem. Obviously, its possible to move Arcia to DH, which doesnt sound all that bad either. I just dont feel like moving DOzier to SS would be very ideal because he is a stud 2B and not so much at SS unless his rookie season was a fluke.

stringer bell
09-02-2013, 11:10 AM
His .622 OPS says different. He is what we thought he is, a bad hitter. By contrast, Dozier has a .737 OPS. They each have also been trending is opposite directions (Dozier getting better, Florimon getting worse).

The argument would really be does added offense of Rosario outweigh Florimon's defensive value over Dozier's at SS. I'm pretty confident that I can say Rosario is going to be a much much better hitter than Florimon, very likely even better than Dozier. So yes, I would take the offense of Dozier at SS and Rosario at 2b any day. Dozier's defensive improvement at 2b should translate to SS, he has the skills.How much is gained overall if you gain offense at two positions, but lose defense at both of those key defensive positions? I think Florimon and Dozier have been top quadrant defenders this year. If Dozier moves to short and is a middling defender and Rosario is a middling defender, they will have to hit a lot in order to make up for the downgrade in the field. Further, while I think Dozier would be satisfactory at short, I think his arm plays much better at second. He seems to have mastered the pivot in short order and that is not an important skill for a shortstop.

Jeremy Nygaard
09-02-2013, 11:53 AM
To be honest, I'm just glad the Twins are going to be facing this "problem". Rosario played LF in the WBC, so he could definitely stay at 2B primarily as well as get some time in the OF. If it turns out the Twins have two "All-Star"-type 2B, well.. that's a great problem.

Monkeypaws
09-02-2013, 11:39 PM
I'm more than happy with the current middle infield - if it ain't broke, why change it?

Florimon looks weak on paper, but he has had his share of clutch hits this season, and his glove work is outstanding. The guy hasn't even had 500 major league at bats, so whose to say he won't develop into a .250 hitter capable of 10-15 homers? He isn't that far away now.

Dozier just set the Twins all-time record for HRs for 2nd baseman in his first full season, and his defense has also been fantastic.

Their play has been a bright spot for me this season.

To me it makes much more sense to return Rosario to his natural position in the OF, with the ability to fill in at 2nd on occasion.

Otwins
09-03-2013, 12:13 AM
Given Arcia's defense so far I don't see him holding down an outfield spot for too long. I'd count on him as the primary DH, especially if Dozier keeps hitting anything like his recent output.

I agree. I think Arcia looks poor in the outfield and he does not seem to have good instincts. Every time I read a projected outfield with him in it I feel the same way. I sure hope not. One of the things that I have had the hardest time watching this year is the poor outfield play. How many other teams have TWO players that catch and play the outfield. A defensive outfield of Rosario, Buxton and Hicks could be fun to watch. Put Hick's arm in right. If the infield is Mauer, Dozier, Florimon, Sano with Arcia at DH. That could happen mid summer next year. Move Rosario back to the outfield.

iastfan112
09-03-2013, 12:37 AM
I'm more than happy with the current middle infield - if it ain't broke, why change it?

Florimon looks weak on paper, but he has had his share of clutch hits this season, and his glove work is outstanding. The guy hasn't even had 500 major league at bats, so whose to say he won't develop into a .250 hitter capable of 10-15 homers? He isn't that far away now.

Dozier just set the Twins all-time record for HRs for 2nd baseman in his first full season, and his defense has also been fantastic.

Their play has been a bright spot for me this season.

To me it makes much more sense to return Rosario to his natural position in the OF, with the ability to fill in at 2nd on occasion.

I don't understand why people want to move Rosario again, this season there's been nothing but positive reports about his progress at 2B.

Florimon only hit .249 in his minor league career with a .675 OPS. While he may match or exceed those numbers I wouldn't bet on it happening.

Marta Shearing
09-03-2013, 02:46 AM
To me it makes much more sense to return Rosario to his natural position in the OF, with the ability to fill in at 2nd on occasion.

Amen. Dozier has excelled at 2nd base. He's a great 2nd baseman and he'd be a mediocre SS. For goodness sake he's had a great season, dont mess with him. Rosario probably would prefer going back to the outfield anyway. If Kepler ever pans out then we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Florimon can hold down the fort at SS until Santana's ready.

Marta Shearing
09-03-2013, 02:51 AM
2015:

1. CF Buxton
2. LF Rosario
3. 1B Mauer
4. 3B Sano
5. DH Arcia
6. RF Hicks
7. 2B Dozier
8. SS Santana
9. C Pinto

That has the potential to be an imposing lineup.

LaBombo
09-03-2013, 04:23 PM
Amen. Dozier has excelled at 2nd base. He's a great 2nd baseman and he'd be a mediocre SS. For goodness sake he's had a great season, dont mess with him. Rosario probably would prefer going back to the outfield anyway. If Kepler ever pans out then we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Florimon can hold down the fort at SS until Santana's ready.
With any luck Rosario will bounce back next year, but the numbers he put up in AA this year barely suggest an above-average bat at second base in the majors, let alone a corner outfield spot.

Dozier has been a pleasant surprise and one of the few bright spots in a bad season. That said, if Rosario can play an adequate second base but doesn't hit well enough to displace Dozier, his bat would probably be average or below as a corner outfielder.

Monkeypaws
09-03-2013, 04:34 PM
I don't understand why people want to move Rosario again, this season there's been nothing but positive reports about his progress at 2B.

Florimon only hit .249 in his minor league career with a .675 OPS. While he may match or exceed those numbers I wouldn't bet on it happening.

Rosario hasn't proven a thing at the big league level - Dozier has. Assuming Dozier will play SS as well defensively as Florimon, and that Rosario will be as good at 2b as Dozier, is a dubious proposition.

If Dozier falls flat on his face next season, it will be nice to have someone to take his place, but otherwise, how long has Rosario played OF as opposed to 2b, and how big a deal would it be for him to switch back? Probably not hard at all.

jay
09-03-2013, 05:02 PM
Rosario hasn't proven a thing at the big league level - Dozier has. Assuming Dozier will play SS as well defensively as Florimon, and that Rosario will be as good at 2b as Dozier, is a dubious proposition.

If Dozier falls flat on his face next season, it will be nice to have someone to take his place, but otherwise, how long has Rosario played OF as opposed to 2b, and how big a deal would it be for him to switch back? Probably not hard at all.

If Dozier continues to perform as he has since May, 2B is his. If Rosario shows in AAA that he is clearly ready for MLB, I think we need to have this conversation then. Neither of those are a given and could very well not happen at all.

cmb0252
09-03-2013, 05:10 PM
If you aren't going to keep Rosario at 2B because you feel Dozier is the 2B of the future, trade him. The Rangers refused to trade Profar, who is a significantly better prospect than Rosario, and look how that experiment turned out. Dicking around young players isn't a smart idea. As I say this I'm not confident in Dozier with out seeing him produce like he has for another year.

Rosterman
09-03-2013, 05:13 PM
It means Rosario will spend another full season in the minors before the Twins bring him north sometime in 2015.

AROG
09-03-2013, 05:26 PM
You keep Dozier at 2B. He has proven he is very capable there and hopefully that will continue. With Rosario, you keep him at 2B for several reasons. 1) He has proven that he can play a more then capable OF defense and doesn't need to practice there for the sake of practice. 2) Say we get to the enviable position of having to find space for Rosario, having the ability to play MLB defense at 2B and all 3 OF positions make it easier for him to be a Ben Zobrist and find playing time in a lot of places. 3) It dramatically increases his trade value.

darin617
09-03-2013, 05:34 PM
How about they just let him start the season at AAA and if continues to rake then we worry about that. Dozier has been one of the very few bright spots this season. Hopefully the Twins treat Aaron Hicks the same way they did Dozier last year and he comes back with some desire to "earn" a position, not get one handed to him for having a few good spring training games.

twinsin17
09-03-2013, 08:59 PM
Rosario should start next season in AA. Unless he kills AFL pitching and has a stellar spring I don't see a move to AAA until he improves his performance against AA pitching. Double A pitching has proven much more challenging than what he has seen in the past. After moving from A+ to AA this year his K% increased from 12.6% to 21.4% and ISO decreased from .198 to .128. We have no reason to rush him to AAA then to the Majors with Dozier looking good for now. Best case scenario is he rakes AA to start the year, earns a promotion to AAA, continues to hit and gets a late season September call up. Worst case? We rush him to the bigs, he whiffs 30% of the time, shows no power and less than stellar D at 2nd.

Boom Boom
09-03-2013, 10:33 PM
Don't move Rosario from 2B. Even if you're sold on Dozier as a long term building block at 2B, the Twins already have loads of outfield prospects. You'd be limiting infield options and compounding a logjam in the outfield.

freshinthehouse
09-04-2013, 01:17 AM
Personally, I am hoping for Hicks-Buxton-Kepler. I'd like to see Dozier get a crack at SS again next year (it's a lost year anyway probably as well) with Rosario staying at 2B. If it works - awesome. If it doesn't, then we adjust.

Agreed. Next year is gonna be another learn-on-the-job season, so we may as well try Dozier at SS if Rosario is belting in AAA. Rosario's bat has the potential to be All-star caliber at 2nd. The same cannot be said if he's a corner outfielder.

h2oface
09-04-2013, 04:04 AM
I like Rosario to stay at second and see what happens. If the Twins bring back Gardenhire (would they really??), then it shouldn't matter. Gardenhire loves to have the prospects play positions they didn't play in the minors, anyway. Hey.....he loves to have anybody play positions they didn't/don't play.

Steve Lein
09-04-2013, 09:11 AM
I could see a Rosario, Buxton, Hicks outfield in the future if Dozier keeps this up. But I wouldn't move positions with Rosario or Dozier until it's apparent one of them is the long-term answer. I don't think we will know that until after next year.

Dozier has been awesome this year at 2B defensively, and has been really good with the bat in the 2nd half. I wouldn't mess with that by moving him to SS. That didn't work the first time, what makes you think it would now? When he was coming up through the minors playing SS, nearly every prospect guy/scout in the world said he would make a better 2B than a SS when talking about him. I'd say this year has corroborated that.

Shane Wahl
09-04-2013, 09:36 AM
I like the scenario where the Twins can trot out Hicks, Buxton, Arcia and Rosario in the OF, then also use Rosario to give Dozier an occasional break at 2B. It also helps that the new guy, Alex Pressley, can play all the OF positions and is a good lead-off hitter. Dozier's improved hitting seems to fit better second in the order, where he can drive in a high on-base guy like Pressley.

Alex Presley is not a high OBP guy. He is another example of a guy succeeding in AAA and then not doing so in the majors.

Shane Wahl
09-04-2013, 09:41 AM
Well Rosario is not going to be starting with the Twins at the beginning of 2014, so there is time to figure this out. I don't really know what to do other than move Dozier to short permanently, start (whenever Rosario comes up) with a platoon with Rosario and Dozier at second and when Rosario is in play Dozier at short or third, OR either make Rosario the starting LF (why is Willingham still with the Twins, again?).

birdwatcher
09-04-2013, 10:29 AM
I'm glad the Twins were "forward looking" enough to have patience with Dozier when most of us had written him off about two months ago, and "forward looking" enough to move Dozier (and Rosario) to 2B where they're both thriving. But I'm in the camp that wants to see how things play out for both players next season. Hopefully, we have two tradeable assets.

Maybe we can get Billy Smith back as GM so he can pull off another great trade...

Steve Penz
09-04-2013, 11:49 AM
You keep Dozier at 2B. He has proven he is very capable there and hopefully that will continue. With Rosario, you keep him at 2B for several reasons. 1) He has proven that he can play a more then capable OF defense and doesn't need to practice there for the sake of practice. 2) Say we get to the enviable position of having to find space for Rosario, having the ability to play MLB defense at 2B and all 3 OF positions make it easier for him to be a Ben Zobrist and find playing time in a lot of places. 3) It dramatically increases his trade value.

Yes please. Rosario should stay on his current path. If the Twins end up with 2 guys who can play 2b and hit and hit and therefore room has to be made then so be it. That is how we can get more pitching. If that surplus happens it would be a great thing. Dozier has only been like this since May and Rosario is quite young. Give it time next year but stay on the current course.

ashburyjohn
09-04-2013, 12:23 PM
Alex Presley is not a high OBP guy. He is another example of a guy succeeding in AAA and then not doing so in the majors.

Age 24-27 MLB: 715 PA .263/.302/.419
Age 24-27 AAA: 1242 PA .309/.377/.460

This looks to me like a pretty typical difference between the two levels, particularly a dropoff in getting walks, even allowing that the uneven mix of when these stats were accumulated makes comparison hard. The AAA bar needs to be set higher for "succeeding" if you want more than this from a player in the majors. And if he keeps up an OPS around .700 with decent CF defense, he'll have a job in the majors somewhere for a while longer; depends on what you call succeeding.