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View Full Version : Where's (Os)waldo?



stringer bell
08-24-2013, 03:58 PM
As Bremer hinted during the broadcast last night, Arcia is in the starting lineup tonight vs. the Tribe. I was going to comment in the game thread, but it isn't started yet. I think the last 35 games are important for Arcia, as with several other players. He needs to show that the horrible K numbers are an anomoly and that he can make contact far more often than he has shown. He also needs improved results defensively. Arcia has looked somewhere between lost and hopeless too many times in the outfield.

I like Oswaldo's potential, but he needs to back it up with consistent big-league play.

Brock Beauchamp
08-24-2013, 10:57 PM
I really don't care about Arcia's numbers this season. He's a 22 year old that posted a 1.000 OPS in AAA.

What he needs is reps in a MLB uniform. I wouldn't get too worked up about his 2013 if he stumbles a bit. This isn't a situation like Hicks where he posted *pretty good* numbers in AA. He has flat-out raked at every level.

I remember debating his Jason Kubel Lite comps before this season, saying that Oswaldo was the better hitter in the minors. I think that answer is pretty clear now. He's 22 and posting a 104 OPS+ in the majors. That's pretty impressive.

stringer bell
08-25-2013, 12:06 AM
I really don't care about Arcia's numbers this season. He's a 22 year old that posted a 1.000 OPS in AAA.

What he needs is reps in a MLB uniform. I wouldn't get too worked up about his 2013 if he stumbles a bit. This isn't a situation like Hicks where he posted *pretty good* numbers in AA. He has flat-out raked at every level.

I remember debating his Jason Kubel Lite comps before this season, saying that Oswaldo was the better hitter in the minors. I think that answer is pretty clear now. He's 22 and posting a 104 OPS+ in the majors. That's pretty impressive.I guess I'm not worried about Arcia hitting eventually, but I am concerned about bad habits. Too many of his ABs have been poor, where he let the pitcher beat him and he need lots of reps in the OF. I don't doubt he can be a capable corner OF, but he needs work out there, as well.

Oldgoat_MN
08-25-2013, 12:35 AM
I guess I'm not worried about Arcia hitting eventually, but I am concerned about bad habits. Too many of his ABs have been poor, where he let the pitcher beat him and he need lots of reps in the OF. I don't doubt he can be a capable corner OF, but he needs work out there, as well.

I don't think that is unfair.
Hopefully Bruno is keeping an eye on him.

I cannot help but believe the ceiling for this guy is very high.

Zephrin
08-25-2013, 01:00 AM
Gleeman actually ran some numbers demonstrating that Arcia's offensive prowess is among the greatest all-time for the Twins at his age here (http://aarongleeman.com/2013/06/19/who-are-the-best-young-hitters-in-twins-history/).

Hopefully, his hitting continues to mature. His fielding should, too, though there would be a lot less pressure if Hicks and Buxton both end up in the outfield with him. I think he'll grow into at least a 0 dWAR player with more practice/repetition.

Jdosen
08-26-2013, 12:04 AM
I really don't see anything Arcia has done this year that has deserved much criticism when his age and production are taken into account. I'm extremely excited and pleased with how well he has played. Yes he is streaky, but he will become more and more consistent with experience.

Marta Shearing
08-26-2013, 12:13 AM
Im looking at Arcia as a future DH. My future outfield is Kepler, Buxton, Hicks.

mike wants wins
08-26-2013, 08:45 AM
Arcia is the future 1B, not just DH.....he'll cycle through DH/1B with Mauer, and occasionally play the OF to give otehrs a rest (and, your OF should read: Ellsbury, Buxton, Hicks/random guy).

Thegrin
08-26-2013, 08:52 AM
I wonder Arcia's hitting problems might be Bruno's fault. In fact, the strikeouts and ineffective hitting didn't occur much when Vavra was the Hitting Coach,

drjim
08-26-2013, 09:07 AM
Arcia is the future 1B, not just DH.....he'll cycle through DH/1B with Mauer, and occasionally play the OF to give otehrs a rest (and, your OF should read: Ellsbury, Buxton, Hicks/random guy).

Arcia can cover the many Ellsbury DL trips as well.

mike wants wins
08-26-2013, 10:14 AM
Ellsbury games played:

2008: 145
2009: 153
2010: injured
2011: 158
2012: 74
2013: 122 so far

Yup, he got hurt two years. But he puts up legit WAR when healthy. Or, they could not spend any money on players, and keep waiting for Hicks to learn to hit, and Arcia to learn to field and Buxton to come up and be successful.

messier
08-26-2013, 11:05 AM
His defense is what concerns me. I think the hitting thing is just a result of him trying to do to much because he wants to be in the lineup everyday. Once he realizes that Gardy just doesn't get it he'll make the best of the AB's he gets. The defense is worrisome though. We don't need another Willingham or worse another Pedro Munoz!

Major Leauge Ready
08-26-2013, 04:00 PM
Ellsbury games played:

2008: 145
2009: 153
2010: injured
2011: 158
2012: 74
2013: 122 so far

Yup, he got hurt two years. But he puts up legit WAR when healthy. Or, they could not spend any money on players, and keep waiting for Hicks to learn to hit, and Arcia to learn to field and Buxton to come up and be successful.

I would love to see Ellsbury in a Twins uniform. I was hoping they would get him for Santana. I still wonder if the reports about Boston's offer were correct.

As much as I would love to have him, he is 30 and it is going to come down to # of years. That's the game agents/players are playing now. Try to get paid for 2-3 years when they are not worth close to what they are getting paid. The bleak outlook for Pujols and Hamilton might temper this a bit but I doubt it and I certainly don't want any of those contracts at this point in our rebuild. Mauer's production will likely be down at the end of his contract. We definitely don't want two such contracts on the books.

The FA market is OF heavy so that will help. There are other options.

Thrylos
08-26-2013, 04:18 PM
I wonder Arcia's hitting problems might be Bruno's fault. In fact, the strikeouts and ineffective hitting didn't occur much when Vavra was the Hitting Coach,

Happy to say that Arcia never had Vavra as his hitting coach.

Thrylos
08-26-2013, 04:21 PM
I would love to see Ellsbury in a Twins uniform. .

Kind of a different discussion, but I'd rather see the Twins pay the $ for starting pitching than for an aging CF with injury issues. Ellsbury has the potential of being a combination of Grandenson & Sizemore...

drjim
08-26-2013, 04:32 PM
I would love to see Ellsbury in a Twins uniform. I was hoping they would get him for Santana. I still wonder if the reports about Boston's offer were correct.

As much as I would love to have him, he is 30 and it is going to come down to # of years. That's the game agents/players are playing now. Try to get paid for 2-3 years when they are not worth close to what they are getting paid. The bleak outlook for Pujols and Hamilton might temper this a bit but I doubt it and I certainly don't want any of those contracts at this point in our rebuild. Mauer's production will likely be down at the end of his contract. We definitely don't want two such contracts on the books.

The FA market is OF heavy so that will help. There are other options.

The bigger issue for me is that the Twins will pay CF wages for a guy that will move to LF within a year.

The Twins can go big on two FAs max, making one if them a LF doesn't seem ti be a wise use of resources.

And it will be a lot of years for a 30 yo with two major injuries in his recent history.

Willihammer
08-26-2013, 06:18 PM
I'd be all for signing any CF help they can get but I suspect they would have at least given Richardson a shot by now before committing to that plan. So, I don't think FA is in the cards. Hicks will get the job again on a scholarship, is my guess.

Jdosen
08-26-2013, 08:00 PM
I don't understand the idea of the Twins signing Ellsbury at all. Considering Buxton, Hicks, Arcia, Rosario, and maybe even Kepler in 3-4 years, outfield is not the weakness of this organization. The money it would take to sign Ellsbury would be much better served signing Starting Pitching or even a Shortstop IMO.

Oxtung
08-26-2013, 09:48 PM
I don't understand the idea of the Twins signing Ellsbury at all. Considering Buxton, Hicks, Arcia, Rosario, and maybe even Kepler in 3-4 years, outfield is not the weakness of this organization. The money it would take to sign Ellsbury would be much better served signing Starting Pitching or even a Shortstop IMO.

There are no impact SS available this off season (are there ever?) and the SP looks shaky at best. The only upside arms available are Josh Johnson and Tim Lincecum both of which are pretty risky.

Jdosen
08-26-2013, 10:01 PM
There are no impact SS available this off season (are there ever?) and the SP looks shaky at best. The only upside arms available are Josh Johnson and Tim Lincecum both of which are pretty risky.
Good point, I guess I didn't take into account the strength of the free agent class this offseason. Still I don't think I'm on board with giving Ellsbury a boatload of money. It seems to me it would be spending for the sake of spending--which in reality is probably not realistic at all considering the Twins have never shown that they will spend a legitimate amount of money in free agency anyways.

mike wants wins
08-27-2013, 02:25 PM
I would love to see Ellsbury in a Twins uniform. I was hoping they would get him for Santana. I still wonder if the reports about Boston's offer were correct.

As much as I would love to have him, he is 30 and it is going to come down to # of years. That's the game agents/players are playing now. Try to get paid for 2-3 years when they are not worth close to what they are getting paid. The bleak outlook for Pujols and Hamilton might temper this a bit but I doubt it and I certainly don't want any of those contracts at this point in our rebuild. Mauer's production will likely be down at the end of his contract. We definitely don't want two such contracts on the books.

The FA market is OF heavy so that will help. There are other options.


What GOOD options under 30 are there? Oh, how has Hunter's decline gone? FAs are generally older, so are you just writing off all FAs? Why not? why can't they afford two large contracts on their books? It has not killed other teams from being competitive? We've given numerous examples of how bad contracts are not team killers on these boards.

mike wants wins
08-27-2013, 02:27 PM
I don't understand the idea of the Twins signing Ellsbury at all. Considering Buxton, Hicks, Arcia, Rosario, and maybe even Kepler in 3-4 years, outfield is not the weakness of this organization. The money it would take to sign Ellsbury would be much better served signing Starting Pitching or even a Shortstop IMO.

Because we don't all want to wait 3-6 years for the team to be worth watching. Because they have lots of money. Because he's better than any 1B or SS or C or DH available. Because Hicks cannot hit, and Arcia cannot field. Because you need 3 starting OFers. Because even if you end up with too many, you can trade one or more for other players to fill holes. Because they can afford to sign 2-3 players, not just one, and Ryan is not signing multiple expensive pitchers, not with Gibson, Meyer, and May all having to not be blocked.

mike wants wins
08-27-2013, 02:28 PM
Good point, I guess I didn't take into account the strength of the free agent class this offseason. Still I don't think I'm on board with giving Ellsbury a boatload of money. It seems to me it would be spending for the sake of spending--which in reality is probably not realistic at all considering the Twins have never shown that they will spend a legitimate amount of money in free agency anyways.

so signing a 2-4 WAR player is now spending money to spend money? Not to mention his defense instantly makes the pitching here better.

Sconnie
08-28-2013, 08:50 PM
Arcia is the future 1B, not just DH.....he'll cycle through DH/1B with Mauer, and occasionally play the OF to give otehrs a rest (and, your OF should read: Ellsbury, Buxton, Hicks/random guy).


His defense is what concerns me. I think the hitting thing is just a result of him trying to do to much because he wants to be in the lineup everyday. Once he realizes that Gardy just doesn't get it he'll make the best of the AB's he gets. The defense is worrisome though. We don't need another Willingham or worse another Pedro Munoz! This is where these two thoughts converge. Arcia can hit like crazy, his outfield defense is suspect, and the Twins have probable need at first. Sounds like a match