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stringer bell
08-14-2013, 08:59 PM
Doumit is supposed to be healthy and ready to come off the 7-day DL tomorrow. Mastroianni has one more day of rehab before he must be reinstated. Gardy mentioned again that Mastro has been "nicked" a couple of times on his rehab. I wonder if the Twins can and will petition to get an extension of rehab time for Mastroianni. Apparently, he is not swinging well (0-2 with a walk today, 2 Ks) and if they can't extend his rehab, it appears the Twins will option him. (BTW, Hicks still isn't playing). If Mastro stays in Rochester, one way or another, the Twins will have to shed one player. I have been screaming "Ramirez" but I suppose it could be Colabello or Herrmann.

Meanwhile, Gibson passed the 140 IP milestone tonight (Minors and Majors combined) and Gardy is speculating that Deduno may have a "dead arm". What to do? What to do? Unless the Twins simply skip Deduno and start Swarzak/Duensing/Pressly, then they probably have to recall somebody and be creative in creating the roster space. I suspect Gibson does not pitch at all in September and someone will have to be recalled to fill his spot. The only starters that are healthy and on the roster in Rochester are Diamond and Hendriks.

The Twins have one spot on the 40-man and that seems to have earmarked for Mastroianni. If Morneau or another veteran gets traded it likely will add another vacancy on the 40-man.

Rosterman
08-14-2013, 09:04 PM
Hendriks and Diamond will be here no matter what.

When Doumit and Mastro return, we lose Herrmann and Colabello (since Morneau is staying put).

Look for Escobar and parmelee to be called up. Maybe even Pinto (and Herrmann and Colabello)., Anyone on the 40-man will get a September callup. DeVries, Tomkin, Hernandez.

Look for Gibson to be shut down. Maybe the Twins will have a major league look at May. Two years on the 40-man for this guy. We need to give him a taste!

Watch, I bet Hicks doesn't get called back in unless he shows something at Rochester (service time service time).

Mastro takes that 40-man vacancy that left with Carroll.

No, we won't see any future 2015 full-time Twins yet.

Badsmerf
08-14-2013, 09:14 PM
Gibson wont be pitching by September. Hopefully he can have a nice outing the next start and end his season on a good note. I suspect Hendriks is ahead of Diamond at this point. Colabiesie and Hermsie will be the guys optioned most likely. I wish they'd give Colabiesie a real shot, but alas, this isn't Cinderelasie.

drjim
08-14-2013, 09:15 PM
Hendriks and Diamond will be here no matter what.

When Doumit and Mastro return, we lose Herrmann and Colabello (since Morneau is staying put).

Look for Escobar and parmelee to be called up. Maybe even Pinto (and Herrmann and Colabello)., Anyone on the 40-man will get a September callup. DeVries, Tomkin, Hernandez.

Look for Gibson to be shut down. Maybe the Twins will have a major league look at May. Two years on the 40-man for this guy. We need to give him a taste!

Watch, I bet Hicks doesn't get called back in unless he shows something at Rochester (service time service time).

Mastro takes that 40-man vacancy that left with Carroll.

No, we won't see any future 2015 full-time Twins yet.

This is not a consideration unless the Twins plan on keeping him down for a month next season.

stringer bell
08-14-2013, 09:55 PM
I think Morneau is moved before the conclusion of the month. I can picture Terry Ryan looking like Mr. Scratch waiting for phone calls when a first baseman or DH get "nicked". Why isn't Ramirez in the conversation for demotion?

Danchat
08-14-2013, 11:01 PM
We have a lot of starting pitchers rehabbing in AAA, but hopefully De Vries, Hernandez, and Worley get healthy so they can at least throw in Sept. if they have to.
Deduno is going to be shut down soon? I'm not surprised, but this is the first time I've heard it. I really want to see Pinto, I think he's apart of the future. Parmelee and Tonkin need to get up here too. We have so many starting pitchers on the 40 man roster but so many are nicked up...or need to be shut down.

howeda7
08-15-2013, 12:14 AM
Tough call on who gets sent down for Doumit. Hermann is most logical, but given his magic with Albers, they may want to keep him. I know Gardy hates not having a back-up CF'er, but he didn't even start Ramirez in a day came. He must not be that vital.

Marta Shearing
08-15-2013, 07:37 AM
They should put doumit on waivers and either work out a trade or give him away. He should not be taking playing time from young players.

ScottyB
08-15-2013, 08:25 AM
I think Morneau is moved before the conclusion of the month. I can picture Terry Ryan looking like Mr. Scratch waiting for phone calls when a first baseman or DH get "nicked". Why isn't Ramirez in the conversation for demotion?

Ramirez has no options left - he can't be sent down without DFAing and outrighted (which will probably happen after the season).

Thegrin
08-15-2013, 08:58 AM
Doumit will stay. Despite his batting average, he was the 2nd best hitter (after Mauer) since Willingham went on the DL.

If Ramirez is DFA'd and someone picks him up, it is less of a loss than Mastro.

Colabello has shown us nothing. Lets use the AB on Parmalee, who is younger and has more potential.

If Hicks doesn't show a huge improvement in the next few weeks, I see know reason to bring Hicks back.

What happens to Gibson's ML roster spot if they shut Gibson down? Can they disable him ?
Will we have to go with just 24 players until September ? Can they send him down to Rochester without affecting his options ?

Deduno's injury and delayed start may affect the rest of the season. If Deduno has a dead arm, he will probably give us 2 or 3 more difficult outings like the last 2 before we will see the real Deduno.

Once they "get it" , sometimes pitchers pitch better in the majors than they do in the minors
Maybe that will be the case with Diamond and Hendricks.

ThePuck
08-15-2013, 09:02 AM
What happens to Gibson's ML roster spot if they shut Gibson down? Can they disable him ?
Will we have to go with just 24 players until September ? Can they send him down to Rochester without affecting his options ?



They can't disable him just cause they want to and no, sending him down won't affect his options. Options are a yearly thing. Since he was already optioned this season, they could yo-yo him all year long between AAA and the majors and they still will have only burnt one option for this year.

stringer bell
08-15-2013, 09:18 AM
Doumit will stay. Despite his batting average, he was the 2nd best hitter (after Mauer) since Willingham went on the DL.

If Ramirez is DFA'd and someone picks him up, it is less of a loss than Mastro.

Colabello has shown us nothing. Lets use the AB on Parmalee, who is younger and has more potential.

If Hicks doesn't show a huge improvement in the next few weeks, I see know reason to bring Hicks back.
.Second best player? Brian Dozier says "hello". I just don't see the point of carrying Ramirez. Colabello's season in Rochester should be justification to see what kind of big league hitter he is at 29. I also want more ABs for Parmelee, but in truth, he hasn't produced at a position where there will always be other offensive options. I think Hicks is still injured. He hasn't started a game in about a week and only played in a long extra inning affair.

ThePuck
08-15-2013, 09:25 AM
Second best player? Brian Dozier says "hello".

I'm not sure how important it is for your point, but he didn't say Doumit had been the 2nd best player since Willingham went on the DL, he said 2nd best hitter.

AROG
08-15-2013, 09:37 AM
I think that Gibson and Deduno get us to the Sept. 1 roster expansion. Gardy is a big fan of having pitchers work through dead arm (as am I). But, come then I think that Gibson for sure gets put on the DL with a "sore shoulder" or something like that. Maybe both. At which time they bring up Diamond and Hernandez and possibly even Hendricks. They go with a 5 or 6 man rotation.

Also, I would like to see Herrmann go down and find that sweet swing again. He is piling up the K's again and keeping Ramirez is a plus till Mastro can make it back up.

Linus
08-15-2013, 09:50 AM
Some how, some way they need to get Hendriiks, Diamond and Parmalee back up here for the rest of the season. To me, these are the last question marks that need to be evaluated going into the off season. Whether Colabello or Ramirez goes up or down or is DFA'd really doesn't matter. These are not important pieces of our future.

Brock Beauchamp
08-15-2013, 10:08 AM
I'm not sure how important it is for your point, but he didn't say Doumit had been the 2nd best player since Willingham went on the DL, he said 2nd best hitter.

That would still be Dozier. Really, Dozier has been the Twins second-best hitter/player, period.

drjim
08-15-2013, 10:11 AM
Some how, some way they need to get Hendriiks, Diamond and Parmalee back up here for the rest of the season. To me, these are the last question marks that need to be evaluated going into the off season. Whether Colabello or Ramirez goes up or down or is DFA'd really doesn't matter. These are not important pieces of our future.

They'll get their chances soon enough for the reasons you state. I could see a 6 man rotation in September with Gibson shut down.

ashburyjohn
08-15-2013, 10:25 AM
Colabello has shown us nothing.

Cherry picking a starting date of July 25, Colabello has a current OPS line of .985 on a .306 BA. Still small sample size, but it's not just a couple of games either. I'm not optimistic on his long-terms chances, but he's "shown" something.

stringer bell
08-15-2013, 12:34 PM
I'm wondering if Rochester's status of being in a pennant race matters at all. I actually think that it does. Diamond threw a shutout last time out and I think the Twins would like the Wings to make the playoffs for the first time since they were a Twins affiliate. Obviously, the number one goal is player development, but winning at Rochester is probably just as important as winning a few more games in Minnesota.

Ultima Ratio
08-15-2013, 12:41 PM
All I know is that we should have signed Bourne for a year or two and let Hicks play all year in AAA. Now, you try to trade either or both Doumit and Morneau before having to move guys up and down and fiddle with the 40 man.

drjim
08-15-2013, 12:45 PM
All I know is that we should have signed Bourn for a year or two and let Hicks play all year in AAA. Now, you try to trade either or both Doumit and Morneau before having to move guys up and down and fiddle with the 40 man.

No question Bourn would jump at a 1 or 2 year deal over the 4 years he signed for.

stringer bell
08-15-2013, 12:58 PM
Mastroianni has been optioned to Rochester according to the PP. That will leave one player to be sent to Rochester or designated when Doumit is cleared to play (supposedly today). Mastro's activation fills the 40-man roster.

ThePuck
08-15-2013, 01:02 PM
No question Bourn would jump at a 1 or 2 year deal over the 4 years he signed for.

If a 2 year offer would have been made earlier in the process, he may have. It took a LONG time for him to be signed. I didn't want him, I'm glad we didn't get him, but that sarcastic response dismisses the fact that it took a LONG time for him to sign and he MIGHT have jumped at a 2 year contract if present much sooner than mid February. A lot of people thought he mis-judged the market and that the Span and Revere trades really hurt him.

SweetOne69
08-15-2013, 01:07 PM
Mastroianni has been optioned to Rochester according to the PP. That will leave one player to be sent to Rochester or designated when Doumit is cleared to play (supposedly today). Mastro's activation fills the 40-man roster.

I believe that this will be a "free" option, assuming that Mastro get's recalled after 9/1. IIRC a option is recouped if a player spends less then 20 days on optional assignment.

IdahoPilgrim
08-15-2013, 01:18 PM
I believe that this will be a "free" option, assuming that Mastro get's recalled after 9/1. IIRC a option is recouped if a player spends less then 20 days on optional assignment.

You are correct.

jokin
08-15-2013, 01:21 PM
If a 2 year offer would have been made earlier in the process, he may have. It took a LONG time for him to be signed. I didn't want him, I'm glad we didn't get him, but that sarcastic response dismisses the fact that it took a LONG time for him to sign and he MIGHT have jumped at a 2 year contract if present much sooner than mid February. A lot of people thought he mis-judged the market and that the Span and Revere trades really hurt him.

The one-year deal for Boras was an active option being considered publicly at the time. And Boras had precedent for pursuing such an option previously. Also Boras spent a lot of PR capital complaining about the current CBA restricting Bourn's FA options- I think there's an excellent chance at the time that Boras would have jumped if Ryan had made an offer. Many of us argued at the time that the Twins were in a very good position to sign Bourn, because of their poor record in 2012, it would not have cost them a first round pick in 2014, and they could have either made a deadline trade for Bourn in July for a fairly decent prospect (which is what "rebuilding" teams are supposed to do) or had him play out the season and made a QO in return for a possible additional Compensation Pick in 2014.

drjim
08-15-2013, 01:44 PM
The one-year deal for Boras was an active option being considered publicly at the time. And Boras had precedent for pursuing such an option previously. Also Boras spent a lot of PR capital complaining about the current CBA restricting Bourn's FA options- I think there's an excellent chance at the time that Boras would have jumped if Ryan had made an offer. Many of us argued at the time that the Twins were in a very good position to sign Bourn, because of their poor record in 2012, it would not have cost them a first round pick in 2014, and they could have either made a deadline trade for Bourn in July for a fairly decent prospect (which is what "rebuilding" teams are supposed to do) or had him play out the season and made a QO in return for a possible additional Compensation Pick in 2014.

We are all arguing out of ignorance here but I am quite skeptical Bourn lacked short term offers throughout the offseason.

I suspect teams were hesitant to go 4 years on a guy with his skill set and Boras waited it out.

So yes I stand by my sarcastic remark. Your plan is plenty swell but unrealistic as events ultimately proved.

ThePuck
08-15-2013, 02:07 PM
We are all arguing out of ignorance here but I am quite skeptical Bourn lacked short term offers throughout the offseason.

I suspect teams were hesitant to go 4 years on a guy with his skill set and Boras waited it out.

So yes I stand by my sarcastic remark. Your plan is plenty swell but unrealistic as events ultimately proved.

The problem with your remark was that you're talking him choosing between a 4 year deal as opposed to 1 or 2 year deal. That 4 year deal happened way late in the free agency time frame. If a 1 or 2 year deal was offered in the 3 or so months of free agency prior to the 4 year deal being offered, he wouldn't have been choosing between a 4 year deal and a 1 or 2 year deal. He also had no way to know for sure a 4 year deal would EVER be offered...

drjim
08-15-2013, 02:17 PM
The problem with your remark was that you're talking him choosing between a 4 year deal as opposed to 1 or 2 year deal. That 4 year deal happened way late in the free agency time frame. If a 1 or 2 year deal was offered in the 3 or so months of free agency prior to the 4 year deal being offered, he wouldn't have been choosing between a 4 year deal and a 1 or 2 year deal. He also had no way to know for sure a 4 year deal would EVER be offered...

True. Then he could take the 1 or 2 year deal then. Boras is not going to jump at a below market offer early in the process, no competent agent would.

The Twins might have gotten him at that contract just not early in the process.

jokin
08-15-2013, 02:27 PM
The problem with your remark was that you're talking him choosing between a 4 year deal as opposed to 1 or 2 year deal. That 4 year deal happened way late in the free agency time frame. If a 1 or 2 year deal was offered in the 3 or so months of free agency prior to the 4 year deal being offered, he wouldn't have been choosing between a 4 year deal and a 1 or 2 year deal. He also had no way to know for sure a 4 year deal would EVER be offered...

You are spot on. Boras originally wanted 5/$15 and ultimately settled for quite a bit less, 4/$12 just before the start of ST. Boras has previous history of getting the short-term money and coming back to the well again for the big dollar/years the next year. The openings for CF were closing fast once Span and Revere were gone. I think he would have jumped at a one-year number close to the $15M he wanted originally in December and January.

drjim
08-15-2013, 02:43 PM
You are spot on. Boras originally wanted 5/$15 and ultimately settled for quite a bit less, 4/$12 just before the start of ST. Boras has previous history of getting the short-term money and coming back to the well again for the big dollar/years the next year. The openings for CF were closing fast once Span and Revere were gone. I think he would have jumped at a one-year number close to the $15M he wanted originally in December and January.

I can only imagine how fortunate Boras feels that the Twins blew their chance to make such an offer.

ashburyjohn
08-15-2013, 03:23 PM
Guys... I shamefacedly admit I took the bait without thinking (and in the spirit of hypersensitivity to hypocrisy I deleted what I wrote)... but this thread isn't about coulda/woulda/shoulda's last offseason, so please let's table the Bourn discussion. If it needs to be rehashed, start a new thread on him.

Oxtung
08-15-2013, 11:32 PM
They should put doumit on waivers and either work out a trade or give him away. He should not be taking playing time from young players.

I doubt if Doumit would get claimed. He isn't hitting well, is considered a poor defensive catcher by all measuring sticks, and has a year left on his contract. If Morneau doesn't get claimed I don't think Doumit does either.

Jdosen
08-16-2013, 05:02 PM
I know this move (optioning Colabello and keeping Ramirez) made by the Twins is rather inconsequential, but I find myself increasingly frustrated year by year with moves like this. I would so much rather DFA Ramirez and keep giving Colabello at bats to prove that he may be a part of the short term future. The rule of thumb I always ask myself about moves like this is "Is it possible that this player is on the next team to win the division?" For Colabello, the answer is probably not, but maybe. The answer for Ramirez is demonstrably "no."

Brad Swanson
08-16-2013, 05:27 PM
I know this move (optioning Colabello and keeping Ramirez) made by the Twins is rather inconsequential, but I find myself increasingly frustrated year by year with moves like this. I would so much rather DFA Ramirez and keep giving Colabello at bats to prove that he may be a part of the short term future. The rule of thumb I always ask myself about moves like this is "Is it possible that this player is on the next team to win the division?" For Colabello, the answer is probably not, but maybe. The answer for Ramirez is demonstrably "no."

Personally, I'd DFA Clete Thomas and deal with the shoddy defense in center from Ramirez/Herrmann. But then, my answer to just about any question is "DFA Clete Thomas."

Jdosen
08-16-2013, 05:30 PM
Personally, I'd DFA Clete Thomas and deal with the shoddy defense in center from Ramirez/Herrmann. But then, my answer to just about any question is "DFA Clete Thomas."
That's another good solution. He certainly is one of the guys in the mix with the Twins right now that serve absolutely no purpose further than this year, in which case means they should never be taking at bats away from guys who are.

Mr. Brooks
08-16-2013, 05:38 PM
Another in a series of bizzarro moves that makes me question exactly what Terry's plan is.

jimbo92107
08-16-2013, 05:57 PM
Deduno is going to be shut down soon? I'm not surprised, but this is the first time I've heard it. I really want to see Pinto, I think he's apart of the future. Parmelee and Tonkin need to get up here too. We have so many starting pitchers on the 40 man roster but so many are nicked up...or need to be shut down.

Ah, that explains what I was seeing. I thought Deduno looked nervous or tense in his last start. Now I know why - he was pitching with nothing, nada, zilch. Pushing the ball up there with a dead arm.

Good news in a way...I thought he was losing control of himself emotionally. Now they can just skip a start or two and maybe he'll be snapping it up there again. Or not. Sometimes it takes longer.

drjim
08-17-2013, 10:54 AM
I know this move (optioning Colabello and keeping Ramirez) made by the Twins is rather inconsequential, but I find myself increasingly frustrated year by year with moves like this. I would so much rather DFA Ramirez and keep giving Colabello at bats to prove that he may be a part of the short term future. The rule of thumb I always ask myself about moves like this is "Is it possible that this player is on the next team to win the division?" For Colabello, the answer is probably not, but maybe. The answer for Ramirez is demonstrably "no."

This is a good take. I hope it is remedied in two weeks but I just don't see what role Ramirez plays on the Twins going forward. Clete Thomas too.

jokin
08-17-2013, 01:21 PM
I know this move (optioning Colabello and keeping Ramirez) made by the Twins is rather inconsequential, but I find myself increasingly frustrated year by year with moves like this. I would so much rather DFA Ramirez and keep giving Colabello at bats to prove that he may be a part of the short term future. The rule of thumb I always ask myself about moves like this is "Is it possible that this player is on the next team to win the division?" For Colabello, the answer is probably not, but maybe. The answer for Ramirez is demonstrably "no."

You say: "Inconsequential"?
The Twins say: "Affiliates"!

The Red Wings now have the IL POY back in their lineup.

Halsey Hall
08-17-2013, 02:48 PM
That's exactly right, jokin, and they probably explained that to Cola before he left. Go win a trophy and come on back!