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View Full Version : Holy crap! We got a good return for Butera!



SpiritofVodkaDave
08-13-2013, 04:16 PM
The Twins announced that they have acquired Class A left-hander Miguel Sulbaran (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=sulbar000mig&utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com) from the Dodgers as the player to be named later in July 31's Drew Butera (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/buterdr01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com) trade (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/07/dodgers-acquire-drew-butera.html). It's a surprisingly good return for Butera, as Sulbaran was ranked as Los Angeles' No. 14 prospect by MLB.com's Jonathan Mayo (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2013/#list=la).
The 19-year-old Sulbaran has pitched to a 3.01 ERA with 8.3 K/9 and 2.6 BB/9 in 92 2/3 innings this season. In his free scouting report, Mayo writes:

"Sulbaran has a good feel for his low-90s fastball and can add and subtract velocity from it as needed. His curveball is his best offspeed pitch and both his slider and changeup show promise."

PseudoSABR
08-13-2013, 04:19 PM
Yet another indication that Ryan doesn't know what he's doing.

mike wants wins
08-13-2013, 04:21 PM
Or, you could read the other thread where we are all complimenting Ryan for this......

SpiritofVodkaDave
08-13-2013, 04:27 PM
Or, you could read the other thread where we are all complimenting Ryan for this......
Yeah I saw it after the fact, but honestly this deserves its on thread.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
08-13-2013, 04:32 PM
Just when I'm down on Terry Ryan, he does this.

S.
08-13-2013, 04:33 PM
I think I feel better giving credit for this trade to a terrible decision by Ned Colletti, but I'm quite shocked and happy about it regardless.

mike wants wins
08-13-2013, 04:39 PM
Yeah I saw it after the fact, but honestly this deserves its on thread.

That wasn't aimed at you, Dave....

kydoty
08-13-2013, 04:43 PM
Terry Ryan gonna Terry Ryan.

TheLeviathan
08-13-2013, 04:46 PM
Nice, nice deal. Very surprising return, regardless of how he turns out this is nice value.

Brock Beauchamp
08-13-2013, 04:49 PM
To quote Keanu Reeves:

Whoa.

LastOnePicked
08-13-2013, 05:31 PM
Wow. Maybe the high-rolling Dodgers just want us to develop him for them in the 2020's free agent market.

Any chance we can keep Ryan on staff for minor league free agent signings and trades, but hire another co-GM for major league signings and larger personnel moves?

Buck Nasty
08-13-2013, 05:35 PM
Wow. Seems like a pretty good deal for the Twins. I wonder where he'll be ranked on the Twins Prospect list? We are starting to collect some decent (ranked) arms at the lower levels: Kohl Stewart, Berrios, Ryan Eades, Mason Melotakis, Luke Bard, Stephan Gonsalves, Felix Jorge.

John Bonnes
08-13-2013, 06:30 PM
As someone who has trashed various Terry Ryan trades, I now always give him the benefit of the doubt when he reaches into the low minors for trades. A 19yo southpaw with a decent offspeed offering and nearly a K per 9. Obviously, he's got a long way to go, but that ads one more promising pitching chip to this farm system. It's good news.

snepp
08-13-2013, 06:33 PM
As someone who has trashed various Terry Ryan trades, I now always give him the benefit of the doubt when he reaches into the low minors for trades. A 19yo southpaw with a decent offspeed offering and nearly a K per 9. Obviously, he's got a long way to go, but that ads one more promising pitching chip to this farm system. It's good news.

Not to mention that he gave up nothing to do it.

twinsnorth49
08-13-2013, 06:35 PM
Butera had no future, Sulbaran just might......win!

Thegrin
08-13-2013, 06:41 PM
Yet another indication that Ryan doesn't know what he's doing.

I wish there was a :tongue in cheek: smiley. :rolleyes:

twinsnorth49
08-13-2013, 06:49 PM
I wish there was a :tongue in cheek: smiley. :rolleyes:


http://community.logos.com/resized-image.ashx/__size/550x0/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/28/4011.f_5F00_tongueincheek.gif

diehardtwinsfan
08-13-2013, 07:07 PM
Wow, I figured at best we'd see a higher ceiling relief pitcher for that. Need to pull up the trade return thread and see who won.

darin617
08-13-2013, 07:31 PM
Yet another indication that Ryan doesn't know what he's doing.

Just because he was rated 14 in the Dodgers organization doesn't make him a great prospect. Where does LA rank as an organization for prospects? He could end up being rated 20-30 in the Twins organization.

Still anything more than pocket lint for Butera is a steal.

tjsyam921
08-13-2013, 07:43 PM
It was getting to the point where Butera was going to start blocking better players. So just getting rid of him was good, but getting a solid looking low A pitcher seems like a steal. I would have expected a pitcher like this for Morneau, considering his remaining salary.

Oxtung
08-13-2013, 07:44 PM
As much as I bitch about Ryan's moves in FA his trades don't disappoint. This was a great return.

Jim H
08-13-2013, 07:46 PM
Or maybe Butera has more value than most of you seem to think.

Shane Wahl
08-13-2013, 08:32 PM
That is a great return. Usually the PTBNL could be someone who either strikes out that many guys AND walks a ton of guys or someone who doesn't throw hard and gets smacked around a bit, but is still solid in the lower levels.

nicksaviking
08-13-2013, 09:09 PM
Or, you could read the other thread where we are all complimenting Ryan for this......

Right, I think it shows that many of us that aren't firmly in Ryan's corner do in fact evaluate his work subjectively. I have no issues congratulating him on this move and showing my displeasure with other facets of his management.

shs_59
08-13-2013, 09:19 PM
Manuel Sulbaran .......looks like a good young southpaw. a low 90's hurler who might touch mid 90's as he adances. He'll be ready for High A ft. Myers by years end, otherwise he'll start next yr there! :-)

Great trade :-)

i'd rank the Twins' arms as follows: (no gibby)

1. Meyer
2. Stewart
3. Berrios
4. Gonsalves
5. May
6. F. Jorge
7. Z. Jones
8. R. Eades
9. M. Sulbaran
10. Wheeler/ Dean/ Albers/ Darnell/ Malinowski something to that affect.

obiously there are some relievers who could make a decent impact besides Jones and Malinowski..... A.J. Achter, Matt Hauser, Luke Bard, JT Chargois, Boer? and a few others.

diehardtwinsfan
08-13-2013, 09:22 PM
Manuel Sulbaran .......looks like a good young southpaw. a low 90's hurler who might touch mid 90's as he adances. He'll be ready for High A ft. Myers by years end, otherwise he'll start next yr there! :-)

Great trade :-)

i'd rank the Twins' arms as follows: (no gibby)

1. Meyer
2. Stewart
3. Berrios
4. Gonsalves
5. May
6. F. Jorge
7. Z. Jones
8. R. Eades
9. M. Sulbaran
10. Wheeler/ Dean/ Albers/ Darnell/ Malinowski something to that affect.

obiously there are some relievers who could make a decent impact besides Jones and Malinowski..... A.J. Achter, Matt Hauser, Luke Bard, JT Chargois, Boer? and a few others.

You missed Thorpe. He's in the top 10 as well I think.

Blackjack
08-13-2013, 09:24 PM
Or, you could read the other thread where we are all complimenting Ryan for this......

Tough crowd here, Terry can't do much right can he??!

Whats the title of the other thread where he's actually getting compliments?

gil4
08-13-2013, 09:25 PM
I thought getting rid of Butera and the rest of his $700K contract was a good return in itself. I was expecting a bucket of used baseballs as the throw-in and I was fine with that.

gunnarthor
08-13-2013, 09:28 PM
Not sure if it's posted elsewhere but Sickels at minorleagueball likes the trade for the Twins, too.
Twins get genuine prospect for Drew Butera - Minor League Ball (http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/8/13/4619266/drew-butera-miguel-sulbaran-los-angeles-dodgers-minnesota-twins)

He's short but has a chance to make it as a back of the rotation guy or a bullpen arm. My guess in the Twins system he's probably ranked somewhere around #16-20 range or so.

Einstein
08-13-2013, 09:53 PM
That's a pretty nice return for Butera. Props to TR.

nicksaviking
08-13-2013, 10:25 PM
Tough crowd here, Terry can't do much right can he??!

Whats the title of the other thread where he's actually getting compliments?

What are you talking about? Everyone seems pretty happy with this deal. Who's complaining?

http://twinsdaily.com/minnesota-twins-talk/8154-predict-return-buterible-3.html

notoriousgod71
08-13-2013, 11:20 PM
We got more for Butera than we did for Hardy.

drjim
08-14-2013, 07:33 AM
We got more for Butera than we did for Hardy.

Imagine if Terry Ryan could trade with Bill Smith.

Brock Beauchamp
08-14-2013, 07:49 AM
Not to mention that he gave up nothing to do it.

Less than nothing. He gave up a minor league guy who was being paid more than he was worth.

Blackjack
08-14-2013, 07:51 AM
What are you talking about? Everyone seems pretty happy with this deal. Who's complaining?


I was just surprised that people were actually praising Terry Ryan, normally posters are saying he's dumber than dirt and can't do anything right.

Badsmerf
08-14-2013, 08:03 AM
If that was the return for Butera, what would be the return for Doumit? I get that Butera has defensive value for a contender, but I would think Doumit would have far more value. I can see him being moved this offseason if Pinto is given some AB's this September.

Shane Wahl
08-14-2013, 08:25 AM
If that was the return for Butera, what would be the return for Doumit? I get that Butera has defensive value for a contender, but I would think Doumit would have far more value. I can see him being moved this offseason if Pinto is given some AB's this September.

In the Dodger organization, who knows!? I have to think that most GMs would not give that up for Butera so the bar is probably lower. But, yeah, I would have maybe expected this caliber of player back for Morneau or maybe Doumit. When I looked for pitchers to acquire for those two, most were not as good as Sulbaran.

IdahoPilgrim
08-14-2013, 08:26 AM
I wonder if the Dodgers willingness to part with a prospect of even this level for Butera is a function of their new TV contract - they don't have to be as concerned with building from within, they can just about spend whatever they want in the FA market to fill any holes they see.

old nurse
08-14-2013, 08:36 AM
The well documented deficiencies of Doumit would lead me to believe if the Twins got a similar return as they did with Butera in trade they would be lucky.

E. Andrew
08-14-2013, 08:53 AM
It's a fun reason to follow Sulbaran's progress, if nothing else. It probably gives him an advantage over comparable players, I think few GMs are totally above trying to make their moves seems smart.

Nice move TR.

drjim
08-14-2013, 09:09 AM
If that was the return for Butera, what would be the return for Doumit? I get that Butera has defensive value for a contender, but I would think Doumit would have far more value. I can see him being moved this offseason if Pinto is given some AB's this September.

Being under contract next year probably hurts Doumit's value a little. If healthy he should have some value at the deadline next year.

Monkeypaws
08-14-2013, 09:47 AM
Pretty good looking bag of balls this Sulbaran.

StormJH1
08-14-2013, 10:50 AM
It's really pretty amazing. Could you even imagine a lower-value "rental" than trading Butera at the deadline? I expected some 26-year old burnout at Triple A, not a kid at A-ball who actually has put up pretty good numbers. Crap, you could have said this was the return for MORNEAU and some people would have defended it.

diehardtwinsfan
08-14-2013, 10:51 AM
Imagine if Terry Ryan could trade with Bill Smith.

Yeah, someone needs to get Smith a job with the Reds or Red Sox.

PseudoSABR
08-14-2013, 01:16 PM
What do you think of the return the Twins got for Drew Butera?

Klaw (2:13 PM)
Fringe reliever prospect - 5'10", 88-91, change for average breaking ball, but unlikely to ever be more than a middle reliever. That said, way too much to give up for Butera.

Brock Beauchamp
08-14-2013, 01:17 PM
What do you think of the return the Twins got for Drew Butera?

Klaw (2:13 PM)
Fringe reliever prospect - 5'10", 88-91, change for average breaking ball, but unlikely to ever be more than a middle reliever. That said, way too much to give up for Butera.

Sounds like a fair assessment to me.

LaBombo
08-14-2013, 03:54 PM
Have to admit I was totally wrong about Butera. Thought he would never contribute to the organization. Drew da man!

Monkeypaws
08-14-2013, 03:56 PM
What do you think of the return the Twins got for Drew Butera?

Klaw (2:13 PM)
Fringe reliever prospect - 5'10", 88-91, change for average breaking ball, but unlikely to ever be more than a middle reliever. That said, way too much to give up for Butera.

Way to rain on our parade Klaw....

LaBombo
08-14-2013, 04:09 PM
Or maybe Butera has more value than most of you seem to think.

He's right where he was with the Twins, playing in AAA and waiting for someone get hurt. It's only 23 plate appearances, but so far he's struggled to duplicate his historically awful MLB numbers.

That the Dodgers were willing to overpay a bit doesn't change the fact that he is exactly what he was to the Twins: injury insurance and organizational filler. Would make for a great story if he turns out to be more.

Mr. Brooks
08-14-2013, 09:38 PM
Just because he was rated 14 in the Dodgers organization doesn't make him a great prospect. Where does LA rank as an organization for prospects? He could end up being rated 20-30 in the Twins organization.

Still anything more than pocket lint for Butera is a steal.

The same publication that had him 14 in the Dodgers organization (mayo) slotted him in at 13 in our system.