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Thrylos
08-01-2013, 03:40 PM
Arcia and someone else promoted
Likely Albers.

Not a bad move at all. Diamond has been horrible and Albers deserves the promotion

Parker Hageman
08-01-2013, 03:45 PM
Following the latest loss to the Kansas City Royals, the Twins send down two struggling players in pitcher Scott Diamond and center fielder Aaron Hicks.

Oswaldo Arcia, who has been hitting .375/.490/.725 with four home runs in his last 49 plate appearances since being demoted in early July, will be recalled. The second player is unknown but odds are the Twins will tap left-handed pitcher Andrew Albers. Albers is 11-5 with a tidy 2.86 ERA and a 116/32 K/BB ratio. While Albers has earned the opportunity, his 132.1 innings he has pitched exceeds his previous high by 28.1 innings. It will be interesting to see how the 27 year old holds up.

blairpaul715
08-01-2013, 03:48 PM
Didn't Albers just pitch? Wouldn't they bring up someone else till it is his turn in the rotation, pitcher or postion player, just a thought. They always seem to be clamoring that the relief pitchers are putting in to many innings.

Mr. Ed
08-01-2013, 03:49 PM
The deck chairs continue to be shuffled in MN. GM had an opportunity to start making changes. The changes should now start in the front office.

Ryan talks tough how it's his fault, not Gardy's, for this mess.

Well, if he created the mess, step aside, let someone else clean it up.

This is rudderless ship going nowhere. Isn't 90 losses this many times enough to warrant change?

Thegrin
08-01-2013, 03:53 PM
Maybe they bring back Walters to pitch one game.

mike wants wins
08-01-2013, 03:53 PM
Both good moves. Btw, can we give up on the switch hitting yet?

jun
08-01-2013, 03:55 PM
It should have happened earlier though.

Willihammer
08-01-2013, 03:57 PM
Didn't Albers just pitch? Wouldn't they bring up someone else till it is his turn in the rotation, pitcher or postion player, just a thought. They always seem to be clamoring that the relief pitchers are putting in to many innings.
Diamond just pitched. So it shouldn't be a problem.

I hope Hicks re-gains some confidence down there. His body language has looked pretty lousy for most of the summer, IMO.

Danchat
08-01-2013, 04:00 PM
Good to see Albers coming. I guess now Clete is the CF for the distant future and Arica plays LF. Unfortunately we still have 2 OFs.

StormJH1
08-01-2013, 04:03 PM
Diamond just pitched. So it shouldn't be a problem.

I hope Hicks re-gains some confidence down there. His body language has looked pretty lousy for most of the summer, IMO.

Yeah, Hicks showed some flashes of what he could be, but he just isn't ready. Hopefully he wasn't too badly damaged coming to bat virtaully an entire season with a sub .200 batting average on the scoreboard. Suppose he could be back in September, but ideally, I wish he could stay down there until he's had extended success in AAA.

LaBombo
08-01-2013, 04:04 PM
Both good moves. Btw, can we give up on the switch hitting yet?
Put another way, is it really still a certainty that the risk of at least experimenting with rightie-only would outweigh the reward?

Either way, hope they tear up aaa and hold their own in the majors the second time around.

Man, tough year for the FO to sell hope. The ace, the RoY candidate, and the opening day starter all in aaa on August 1st.

AM.
08-01-2013, 04:06 PM
Joe Benson sure picked the wrong time to have a lousy start to the season. He could have gotten a ton of ABs in the Twins OF this season, if he could have held on for just a couple of more weeks.

How long will Hicks need to be down in order to get another year of service time?

buckninetyone
08-01-2013, 04:14 PM
hicks and diamond optioned to biogenesis.

Oxtung
08-01-2013, 04:17 PM
Joe Benson sure picked the wrong time to have a lousy start to the season. He could have gotten a ton of ABs in the Twins OF this season, if he could have held on for just a couple of more weeks.

How long will Hicks need to be down in order to get another year of service time?

Twenty something days.

rickyriolo
08-01-2013, 04:18 PM
i agree with sending both Hicks & Diamond down. They should have been sent down about a month ago.Now if only the Astros & white Sox can get on a little winning streak of their own we will be in good position for next year's draft

Highabove
08-01-2013, 04:19 PM
In the past, a number of Players have benefited from a second trip to the minors.
Hunter, Span, Revere, Hawkins, Morneau among others.

bl
08-01-2013, 04:19 PM
Man, tough year for the FO to sell hope. The ace, the RoY candidate, and the opening day starter all in aaa on August 1st.

Eeeeesh.

AM.
08-01-2013, 04:22 PM
I agree that Albers seems to have earned a chance, but I'm wondering if, according to the Twins FO logic, Hendriks has earned another shot? (Which I would like to see.)

On a related note, while I am optimistic about the future with several stellar prospects coming up, the recent history of lousy handling of numerous debuts (Arcia, Hicks, Dozier, Parmelee, Hendriks), maybe I should have more pessimism.

Kwak
08-01-2013, 04:23 PM
hicks and diamond optioned to biogenesis.

Calling Dr. Rudy Wells--stat!

LaBombo
08-01-2013, 04:26 PM
Eeeeesh.
There are plenty of reasons to be excited and optimistic about being a Twins fan. The problem is that most of those reasons are not on the major league roster right now.

How many days until Deduno pitches again?

nicksaviking
08-01-2013, 04:28 PM
Surely Albers will be tabbed, but the rotation spot doesn't come due for five days. Last time they wasted a spot with Gibson doing nothing for four days between starts, I'm guessing Tonkin gets called up until the Diamnod/Albers start.

Kwak
08-01-2013, 04:29 PM
I hope Rochester can continue to win.

Rosterman
08-01-2013, 04:46 PM
Well, we have a 40-man spot open because of Butera. How many days does Hicks have to stay down to become a Super 2, or whatever. Hopefully Diamond will get his act together so he can return to the rotation and not become another Brian Duensing.

Thrylos
08-01-2013, 05:10 PM
I'm guessing Tonkin gets called up until the Diamnod/Albers start.

Or Hernandez if they need someone to go longer out of the pen

Supfin99
08-01-2013, 05:20 PM
The deck chairs continue to be shuffled in MN. GM had an opportunity to start making changes. The changes should now start in the front office.

Ryan talks tough how it's his fault, not Gardy's, for this mess.

Well, if he created the mess, step aside, let someone else clean it up.

This is rudderless ship going nowhere. Isn't 90 losses this many times enough to warrant change?

This is why I almost afraid to read comments some times. What exactly should TR have done in the year and a half back on the job? I know spend 250 million on Greinke and Sanchez, because they would have for sure come here. With both of them we just might have been good enough to finish .500. This year is about seeing what some players like Florimon, Parmalee, Ploufe and Dozier can do. Also letting some rookies like Arcia and Hicks get their feet wet. Frankly I want the Twins to get a higher pick. Another top 3 means we are guaranteed to get either a stud pitcher or shortstop. This offseason we definitely do not need to waste money on overpriced free agent pitching. I say let Deduno, Diamond, Gibson, Hendricks, Albers, Meyer and May make 90% of the starts next year. Bring in Sano, Rosario and later Buxton to get their first taste. Then come 2015 you might be in a position to start thinking about moving forward. As a fan I believe you either contend for championships or you bottom out. Who wants to see a .500 team that is going nowhere.

Danchat
08-01-2013, 05:22 PM
Or Hernandez if they need someone to go longer out of the pen
I'm pretty sure he's rehabbing right now.

rickyriolo
08-01-2013, 05:23 PM
trade Hicks & worley to the Phillies for ben revere

buckninetyone
08-01-2013, 05:26 PM
Or Hernandez if they need someone to go longer out of the pen

i don't think hernandez will ever get out of the pen.

mcrow
08-01-2013, 05:33 PM
Should have been done a while ago really.

I hope Albers works out but his whip in AAA this year might indicate that it's not going to go as well in the majors.

Arcia is deserving of the call up and should be on the roster anyway.

Edit: quick math in head didn't pan out, Alber's whip looks good.

Badsmerf
08-01-2013, 05:35 PM
Finally. This should have been done a month ago. Hopefully Hicks can figure something out and Albers can have some success.

drjim
08-01-2013, 06:00 PM
Well, we have a 40-man spot open because of Butera. How many days does Hicks have to stay down to become a Super 2, or whatever. Hopefully Diamond will get his act together so he can return to the rotation and not become another Brian Duensing.

If they keep him down for 20 days they get an extra year of control. He would have to spend some significant time in the minors next year to avoid being a super 2 after the 2015 season.

Monkeypaws
08-01-2013, 06:14 PM
Seems like the fair and right move.

Imagine what Hicks will be capable of next season if he doesn't dig himself a huge hole like he did this April. He's shown enough this season for me to think he has a pretty bright future. I think getting thrown out on that bunt last night was symbolic for his rookie season. and his face showed it. Come back bald next year and dominate. :)

Arcia gets to continue a shot at ROY honors. 2 hot months could get it done.

Diamond needs this, and Albers damn well deserves a shot.

mike wants wins
08-01-2013, 06:23 PM
This is why I almost afraid to read comments some times. What exactly should TR have done in the year and a half back on the job? I know spend 250 million on Greinke and Sanchez, because they would have for sure come here. With both of them we just might have been good enough to finish .500. This year is about seeing what some players like Florimon, Parmalee, Ploufe and Dozier can do. Also letting some rookies like Arcia and Hicks get their feet wet. Frankly I want the Twins to get a higher pick. Another top 3 means we are guaranteed to get either a stud pitcher or shortstop. This offseason we definitely do not need to waste money on overpriced free agent pitching. I say let Deduno, Diamond, Gibson, Hendricks, Albers, Meyer and May make 90% of the starts next year. Bring in Sano, Rosario and later Buxton to get their first taste. Then come 2015 you might be in a position to start thinking about moving forward. As a fan I believe you either contend for championships or you bottom out. Who wants to see a .500 team that is going nowhere.

so punt a fourth season....good idea. Sell that to the owners and fans.....

ThePuck
08-01-2013, 06:27 PM
so punt a fourth season....good idea. Sell that to the owners and fans.....

Plenty of fans seem completely content with that...as far as the owners go, they'll pocket even more money next year. They'll be plenty happy.

Mr. Brooks
08-01-2013, 06:38 PM
Seems like the fair and right move.

Imagine what Hicks will be capable of next season if he doesn't dig himself a huge hole like he did this April. He's shown enough this season for me to think he has a pretty bright future. I think getting thrown out on that bunt last night was symbolic for his rookie season. and his face showed it. Come back bald next year and dominate. :)

Arcia gets to continue a shot at ROY honors. 2 hot months could get it done.

Diamond needs this, and Albers damn well deserves a shot.

I don't think Arcia has a shot at catching Franklin, probably not Myers either.

rickyriolo
08-01-2013, 06:44 PM
Minnesota fans are used to the losing now and just want the "nice experience" of going to a game outdoors.

Thrylos
08-01-2013, 06:53 PM
so punt a fourth season....good idea. Sell that to the owners and fans.....

They don't need full ballpark in Twins' games; St Peter can add 2-3 more hick concerts during the season and make up for the "loss" on the baseball side... Demolition Derby and Monster Trucks during the post season.

tjsyam921
08-01-2013, 07:02 PM
I like Hicks but I can't believe he lasted 105 games hitting below 200 before getting sent down.

USAFChief
08-01-2013, 07:04 PM
Frankly I want the Twins to get a higher pick. Another top 3 means we are guaranteed to get either a stud pitcher or shortstop. e.
Guaranteed?

This isn't the NFL.

JB_Iowa
08-01-2013, 07:12 PM
Can they just send the whole d*mn team down and punt the rest of the season?

USAFChief
08-01-2013, 07:32 PM
I guess there's an argument to be made that perhaps AAA time will be good for Hicks, and there's always the financial/control angle. However I'd rather just let Hicks play CF in the big leagues. As long as he's getting every day playing time I don't think it matters much where that's at, and I for one really don't want to watch a team on its way to a third consecutive 90 loss season invest in Clete Thomas when that isn't necessary.

Bark's Lounge
08-01-2013, 07:37 PM
I really hoped that Hicks would be successful this season. He started off awful and seemed to find a half decent kind of groove after the first month. When he went 4 for 4 against the Rays, I was hoping that would be his starting gun to get on a hot streak. Unfortunately, that did not happen.

In a season of disappointment, Hicks has at least provided us fans with some of the more exciting moments of this season (mostly with his glove). It is now imperative that the Twins stash Hicks in Rochester until they have guaranteed themselves another year of service time from him. I believe Hicks is a part of the answer to the Twins' woes. He just needs a bit more time.

As for Arcia. Tomorrow, he should probably be in the 3 or 4 spot. Not to say that will happen, but at this moment in time he seems like the absolute right candidate. Morneau and Doumit do not do it for me. Congrats to Morneau for his decent offensive output today, but one day does not change his awful July and powerless 3 months to begin the season.

jorgenswest
08-01-2013, 08:06 PM
Definitely my bias, but I enjoy watching defense and the defense in the outfield will be unwatchable.

There will be a drop in CF, a huge drop in LF and it isn't possible to drop off from Doumit/Colabello/Herrmann in RF. The overall OF defense was adequate when Thomas was in LF and Hicks in CF. It will be the worst in baseball now.

I guess I hope Arcia plays RF as that is his future spot if not DH. It still seems the best decision for Hicks, but the Twins should have found someone who can defend in the OF from among those that have been DFA'd this year. They should have seen this need the minute they traded Revere.

Albers is not a ground ball pitcher. Good luck to him.

nicksaviking
08-01-2013, 08:59 PM
I had been against sending Hicks down, I never saw any reason why a rebuilding team would demote any prospects, but letting him work out his struggles at the majors doesn't appear to be working. At this point I guess I don't care any longer, if the majors aren't working, I guess I can see some reason to give AAA a chance.

stringer bell
08-01-2013, 09:36 PM
Hicks hasn't quite "found it". I thought that when he had that four hit game he would turn the corner, but it didn't happen. He fell back again in July10-63 since his 4-hit game vs. Tampa. He has shown flashes, but a month of Rochester time won't hurt and will give the Twins another year of control, I think.

Diamond isn't that bad, but he can't seem to get over the hump. I guess expectations for him going forward will be realistic and probably pessimistic. Diamond seems like a good competitor and I think he'll find a way to be a decent starter again.

Vervehound
08-01-2013, 09:47 PM
Can they just send the whole d*mn team down and punt the rest of the season?

the red wings would be pretty formidable with morneau hitting 8th in their line-up.

John Bonnes
08-01-2013, 09:55 PM
Boy, a four-game losing streak makes Twins Daily crabby.

On the detailed level, I agree with both of these moves. I might have tried Antoan Richardson over Arcia, just to see what he can do. But I'm far more excited to have Arcia back.

But at a broader level, I'm getting a little tired of "pieces of the future" failing to have any success. One can look a little optimistically at Arcia, Plouffe, Dozier and maybe Florimon, but non are blowing anyone away and a couple are taking a few years just to be somewhat competent. Meanwhile the struggles of Worley, Diamond, Gibson, Hicks, Parmelee....

While the team hasn't been brutal and has had some success, they haven't shown a lot of hope for the future. This move is a symptom of that, not the cause, but it still disheartens me a little.

Kwak
08-01-2013, 10:08 PM
Boy, a four-game losing streak makes Twins Daily crabby.

On the detailed level, I agree with both of these moves. I might have tried Antoan Richardson over Arcia, just to see what he can do. But I'm far more excited to have Arcia back.

But at a broader level, I'm getting a little tired of "pieces of the future" failing to have any success. One can look a little optimistically at Arcia, Plouffe, Dozier and maybe Florimon, but non are blowing anyone away and a couple are taking a few years just to be somewhat competent. Meanwhile the struggles of Worley, Diamond, Gibson, Hicks, Parmelee....

While the team hasn't been brutal and has had some success, they haven't shown a lot of hope for the future. This move is a symptom of that, not the cause, but it still disheartens me a little.

I must agree John. Combine your statemnts above with those of the "Ten Best Pitching Prospects" Thread and I can't see how 2014 can be 10 games better than 2013 or that 2015 can be 25 games better than 2013 will finish without a substantial influx of veteran free agents that produce and cause the youth "to click".

Shane Wahl
08-01-2013, 10:11 PM
Good moves. Hicks will be back in September. Another year of service time. Albers gets a tryout.

Shane Wahl
08-01-2013, 10:13 PM
Mauer back batting second and Arcia third, hopefully. In September, throw Hicks in at the top. Let 'em roll. Maybe by June-ish next season, Sano will be batting 4th and Rosario 5th.

drjim
08-01-2013, 10:41 PM
Phil Miller points out that the Rochester OF this werkend will be Willingham-Hicks-Parmelee and Minnesota will be Arcia-Thomas-Herrmann. Don't think that was in the opening day plans.

Top Gun
08-01-2013, 10:53 PM
Hicks can kiss his ass good bye.

Bark's Lounge
08-01-2013, 11:07 PM
Hicks can kiss his ass good bye.
Only if he is flexible, a contortionist... or something of that nature.

Shane Wahl
08-01-2013, 11:58 PM
Hicks can kiss his ass good bye.

1200+ posts and suddenly you say something like this?

PseudoSABR
08-02-2013, 12:03 AM
We like pretend that the modalities of baseball are known quantities but they are not; the Twins are playing a game of psychology as much as they are trying to maximize athleticism. Hicks and Diamond have had months to straighten themselves out at the major league level; it's time to shake their foundations and see if the house can hold. I have no doubt that both can contribute in the future, but unadulterated complacency was not the answer. I'm glad the Twins shook things up, both will be back up in September.

LaBombo
08-02-2013, 12:47 AM
1200+ posts and suddenly you say something like this?

Shane Wahl, meet Top Gun. Top Gun, meet Shane Wahl.

Jham
08-02-2013, 01:47 AM
This is why I almost afraid to read comments some times. What exactly should TR have done in the year and a half back on the job? I know spend 250 million on Greinke and Sanchez, because they would have for sure come here. With both of them we just might have been good enough to finish .500.

Greinke or Sanchez might not have been realistic, but if the Red Sox gave up Iglesias for Peavy, we could have absolutely made out trading a Greinke or Sanchez. Essentially we could have gotten several major league-ready blue-chippers and half-a-season of a true ace for like 10 million dollars (and a bit of risk of injury). The White Sox got a potential star from a division rival and a great 1/2 season of Peavy for what, 7-8 mil? I'd rather have that than a full year of Pelfrey and Correia for the same price. Sometimes signing higher priced free agents is necessary in order to have meaningful tradebait come July. The refusal to acquire tradeable talent in free agency has really held us back.

AM.
08-02-2013, 05:04 AM
There are plenty of reasons to be excited and optimistic about being a Twins fan. The problem is that most of those reasons are not on the major league roster right now.

How many days until Deduno pitches again?


Gibson, Deduno and Colabello....and now Arcia again...are my current reasons on the big league club.

AM.
08-02-2013, 05:12 AM
Mauer back batting second and Arcia third, hopefully. In September, throw Hicks in at the top. Let 'em roll. Maybe by June-ish next season, Sano will be batting 4th and Rosario 5th.

I agree with all of the parts of your plan. However, if Gardy is extended, will he be advocating for Sano and Rosario to start next year with the big league club?

diehardtwinsfan
08-02-2013, 06:00 AM
This is why I almost afraid to read comments some times. What exactly should TR have done in the year and a half back on the job? I know spend 250 million on Greinke and Sanchez, because they would have for sure come here. With both of them we just might have been good enough to finish .500.

Greinke or Sanchez might not have been realistic, but if the Red Sox gave up Iglesias for Peavy, we could have absolutely made out trading a Greinke or Sanchez. Essentially we could have gotten several major league-ready blue-chippers and half-a-season of a true ace for like 10 million dollars (and a bit of risk of injury). The White Sox got a potential star from a division rival and a great 1/2 season of Peavy for what, 7-8 mil? I'd rather have that than a full year of Pelfrey and Correia for the same price. Sometimes signing higher priced free agents is necessary in order to have meaningful tradebait come July. The refusal to acquire tradeable talent in free agency has really held us back.

Peavy doesn't have another 5 years on his deal. And truth be told, Iglesias was a sell high move and was designed to make room for Bogarts. Iglesias was already crashing back to earth. The Sox gave up Peavy for practically nothing.

TheLeviathan
08-02-2013, 06:11 AM
This is probably the right move, but my god this team has few reasons to watch. Thank god for fall sports.

ChiTownTwinsFan
08-02-2013, 07:04 AM
This is probably the right move, but my god this team has few reasons to watch. Thank god for fall sports.
Can't wait to see 'em play in ChiTown next weekend, eh?

TheLeviathan
08-02-2013, 08:42 AM
Can't wait to see 'em play in ChiTown next weekend, eh?

Chomping at the bit.

USAFChief
08-02-2013, 08:47 AM
Can't wait to see 'em play in ChiTown next weekend, eh?
I would imagine you can score some pretty choice ducats cheap for that series. So there's that.

ChiTownTwinsFan
08-02-2013, 11:53 AM
I would imagine you can score some pretty choice ducats cheap for that series. So there's that.
My new favorite are the 300-level seats. Better food choices and wait staff to take your orders.

Jham
08-02-2013, 01:49 PM
Peavy doesn't have another 5 years on his deal. And truth be told, Iglesias was a sell high move and was designed to make room for Bogarts. Iglesias was already crashing back to earth. The Sox gave up Peavy for practically nothing.

The White Sox got a top 2 prospect, a potential 5-tooler, from a division rival. If the Twins swung a deal to get a player like Avisail Garcia, the twinsdaily server would completely implode with over-the-moon posters.

orangevening
08-02-2013, 02:35 PM
My question now is who is the back-up CF? Hermann? Arcia? Scary if something happens to Clete mid-game or, god forbids, needs a day off.

PseudoSABR
08-02-2013, 02:41 PM
The White Sox got a top 2 prospect, a potential 5-tooler, from a division rival. If the Twins swung a deal to get a player like Avisail Garcia, the twinsdaily server would completely implode with over-the-moon posters.You're dismissing how poor the Tigers system is. I'm not sure Garcia is on very many top 100 lists...

The Twins got a better return for Santana, in terms of prospect value, to put it in perspective.

Willihammer
08-02-2013, 02:44 PM
My question now is who is the back-up CF?

Doumit

Mr. Brooks
08-03-2013, 01:23 PM
You're dismissing how poor the Tigers system is. I'm not sure Garcia is on very many top 100 lists...

The Twins got a better return for Santana, in terms of prospect value, to put it in perspective.

Baseball America had him #74 coming into 2013.

orangevening
08-03-2013, 03:01 PM
Yep, scary indeed. Hicks' confidence must have dropped so much that it overrode the need to have back up CF

USAFChief
08-03-2013, 06:47 PM
My question now is who is the back-up CF? I'll worry about who the backup CF is when they have a primary one.

John Bonnes
08-03-2013, 10:00 PM
I'll worry about who the backup CF is when they have a primary one.

Yeah, in some ways, it might have been more defendable to send Hicks down a month ago, when Clete still had an OPS around 720. He's down to 650 now. He could still rebound - one big night can put him back to 700 or so, but he's been languishing at that level for several weeks.

Uncle Jesse's Mullet
08-03-2013, 10:18 PM
Hopefully he wasn't too badly damaged coming to bat

I'm sure Manager of the Millenium Burl Ives didn't damage him at all. He'll be fine.

"'I can’t handle that. I haven’t talked to him about it, because I always have to calm down before I talk to people,' Gardenhire said after Kansas City finished off its first sweep of the Twins since April 2011."

Twins sputter, Gardenhire irked at Hicks' effort | Star Tribune (http://www.startribune.com/sports/202451501.html)

Willihammer
08-04-2013, 07:49 PM
I wonder if, after learning the CF trade market last offseason, Terry Ryan decided to take advantage of AH's hot spring training and turn the 2013 season into the Aaron Hicks Tour. Maybe there was a third team, Mariners or even Braves, who kept the communication lines open into the season. And so he waited, and waited, for Hicks to turn the year around until finally the trade deadline came and went and nobody wanted him anymore or wasn't willing to part with a particular pitcher the Twins liked.