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View Full Version : C'mon JR, Make a Move!



stringer bell
07-30-2013, 10:51 AM
The Twins are in the midst of their third consecutive losing season. They have a roster with a lot of 30+ y.o. veterans who are not stars. This is not how to build toward contention and then championships.

I understand that patience is a virtue and that there is more than 24 hours before the trade deadline, but this roster needs to be shaken, not stirred starting with the trade deadline. Move some bodies, save some salary (to be spent in the offseason), and find out who can play among the guys in the high minors.

Badsmerf
07-30-2013, 10:57 AM
Move guys for the hell of it? You don't just trade guys because your team sucks. In order to get better you have to make better baseball decisions than in the past. I agree that part of that wasn't trading Cuddy and Kubel when he had the chance, but this year is different. The only real trade-able pieces are Morneau, Burton, Fien, Pressley and Perkins. The only real payroll consideration is Morneau, and he is no longer the big Canadian. Unless he makes some kind of great turn-around elsewhere, he might not be in baseball much longer.

drjim
07-30-2013, 11:13 AM
The move I care most about is Arcia and Tonkin getting called up and to a lesser extent Parmelee, Escobar and some of the AAA starters.

Winston Smith
07-30-2013, 11:27 AM
The team needs buildable pieces. What players on the team right now are building blocks for a world series run? Maybe Hicks and Gibson? Mauer, Perkins will be getting old by that time and all the other guys are replacement level or worse.
I disagree, when the team sucks is the time to trade guys with the hope of finding guys that don't suck. We've had enough sucktitude the last 3 years.
The only downside is finding guys that suck worse than the guys you have, which will be a good reason to fire TR if that happens.
http://www.cineol.net/galeria/fotos/4531_40239.jpg

nicksaviking
07-30-2013, 11:34 AM
Terry Ryan was the traitor in the Dirty Dozen too?! I knew it!

cmb0252
07-30-2013, 11:43 AM
The move I care most about is Arcia and Tonkin getting called up and to a lesser extent Parmelee, Escobar and some of the AAA starters.

Agreed. Don't know what you have till you give it a chance. Arcia is killing AAA. He needs at bats in the majors.

Other teams around us are finding decent returns for their players why not us?

LastOnePicked
07-30-2013, 11:46 AM
It won't happen. And it's too bad, because weakening the team right now is actually a net positive with regard to draft pick order. I wouldn't trade Perkins or Pelfry, but I would certainly give Morneau a chance with a contender (and I'd do this for peanuts -- if for nothing else than to let Colabello and Parmalee play out the season). I'd also trade Burton and Duensing. A weakened 2013 club has a better chance at being a stronger future club -- particularly for a team that doesn't sign free agents.

LewFordLives
07-30-2013, 12:01 PM
" I wouldn't trade Perkins or Pelfry..."

Why wouldn't you trade Pelfry? He has no contract after this year and I think it can be safely assumed he's going to want to test the free-agent waters.

luckylager
07-30-2013, 12:10 PM
Who's saying there have been any offers?

stringer bell
07-30-2013, 12:13 PM
Move guys for the hell of it? You don't just trade guys because your team sucks. In order to get better you have to make better baseball decisions than in the past. I agree that part of that wasn't trading Cuddy and Kubel when he had the chance, but this year is different. The only real trade-able pieces are Morneau, Burton, Fien, Pressley and Perkins. The only real payroll consideration is Morneau, and he is no longer the big Canadian. Unless he makes some kind of great turn-around elsewhere, he might not be in baseball much longer.No, move guys to make room for guys who are younger, cheaper and have more upside. Doumit, Duensing, Burton, Fien, and Roenicke are guys that aren't going to get better, healthier, or less expensive. I doubt more than one of them will be around when the team truly contends. This club has had a 40-man roster clogged with bottom quartile talent. Just clearing room on the 40-man would be a good move. Beyond that, I would prefer to see Pinto, Albers, perhaps May, and a couple of other high minors guys over the talent that is here.

mike wants wins
07-30-2013, 12:16 PM
I'm with Stringer. Time to cut the old chaffe, and see what you have in others. Keeping these guys on the roster does nothing at all for the future, and given how they hit, for the present.

raindog
07-30-2013, 12:21 PM
This topic might be more relevant tomorrow. As far as we know, TR is working the phones like crazy.

old nurse
07-30-2013, 12:22 PM
If any of the minor league players were viewed as ready they would be up. If the team thought Collabello/Parmelee was a viable short term option as rf/1b they would be entrenched there now.

stringer bell
07-30-2013, 12:28 PM
This topic might be more relevant tomorrow. As far as we know, TR is working the phones like crazy.I certainly hope so. On a related note, now is the time to tie up any free-agent-to-be. I think that the Twins should consider locking up only one guy and that is not a sure thing. That guy is Pelfrey, who has a chance to get better and healthier in the coming seasons.

SpitefulRabbit617
07-30-2013, 12:33 PM
Just let Andy McPhail's Os take Morneau to the land of castoff Twins. I'm pretty sure its too late to move Morny back to catcher and make him back up his buddy Mauer, that would rock cuz you know his noggin would be protected all game... but I digress

Badsmerf
07-30-2013, 12:35 PM
Why wouldn't you trade Pelfry? He has no contract after this year and I think it can be safely assumed he's going to want to test the free-agent waters.
I'd rather watch Pelfry put up a 4.5 ERA the rest of the season than trade him now for a prospect that has a ceiling of a back-up. Those guys have little value and are already abundant in the system. While I agree about getting talent, no GM will give anything of value for Pelfry right now. I also place value in watching an acceptable baseball team play. Keeping a few guys that make that happen isn't a bad thing.

LimestoneBaggy
07-30-2013, 12:35 PM
Couldn't help myself.5027

cmb0252
07-30-2013, 12:36 PM
From Jim Bowden on the odds of Morny getting traded (take with a grain of salt):
Justin Morneau (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/5379/justin-morneau) | 1B | Minnesota Twins (http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/_/name/min/minnesota-twins) | Odds: 65 percent
The Twins have decided they are not moving Glen Perkins (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/6482/glen-perkins), but they do want to move Morneau. The only question is: Are the Orioles, Yankees, Rangers or Pirates willing to give up a midlevel prospect and take on Morneau’s salary?

jctwins
07-30-2013, 12:41 PM
This topic might be more relevant tomorrow. As far as we know, TR is working the phones like crazy.

Do they really still work the phones? Wouldn't you think they have Instant Messaging and E-mail? Everyone is saying work the phones.

Rosterman
07-30-2013, 12:43 PM
The trade deadline options. You have Morneau and Pelfry, both potential free agents. You either bite the bullet and sign Pelfry, now, to an extension or let him go for something. His last few starts have increased his value. Morneau, you sell for something, anything. You send him to a contender, he's happy. In the off-season, you can sign him if you can reach an agreement, none of this making a qualifying offer or only cutting his base 20%. If he wants to come abck and retire a Twin, he just ahs that Harmon Killebrew blip in his stats. But there is no reason not to trade him. Duensing is tradebait. Isn't as tight as the lefties that are currently being traded, but he is a lefty with control for a team, and just opens up an opportunity for, say, Aaron Thompson or maybe Hernandez as a lefty who can actually pitch more than an inning (which I thought Duensing was). The Twins have other players to move, but will probably be waived during August and take what you can get: Roeincke, Carroll, Thomas, Ramirez. At some point, you aren't keeping them as anything but a minor league free agent at the most during the offseason and they are all replaceable. You also see if anyone bites on Correia and Willingham. Doumit, for some reason, I want to see remain another season. But there are basically 6-8 guys that SHOULD be gone before September 1 and he Twins should have at least a dozen new faces playing the field in anticipation of 2014. Then they can argue about how to spend $40-50 million on other guys to build a strong a strong 2015 team!

mike wants wins
07-30-2013, 12:53 PM
I'd rather watch Pelfry put up a 4.5 ERA the rest of the season than trade him now for a prospect that has a ceiling of a back-up. Those guys have little value and are already abundant in the system. While I agree about getting talent, no GM will give anything of value for Pelfry right now. I also place value in watching an acceptable baseball team play. Keeping a few guys that make that happen isn't a bad thing.

One of the worst hitting teams in baseball is "acceptable" to watch? The lineup they are putting out right now should embarrass the men who said they be playing meaningful games in the fall. And, they have 1-2 pitchers right now. It's a sad team.

Badsmerf
07-30-2013, 01:07 PM
Stop. The Twins organization will never have a fire sale. Organizations that respect their fans don't do this. They will move players that make sense, not move them because they have nothing better to do.

Shane Wahl
07-30-2013, 01:10 PM
I'm just going to say this so that it is clear. I would trade now or waive/trade later, or still later trade (offseason):

Morneau, Duensing, Burton, Fien, Doumit (top 5), Correia (unlikely), Pelfrey, Carroll, Roenicke, Thomas, Swarzak (off), Willingham (off)

That's 12 players. Say they get 12 back ranging from low-A to AAA. Even batting .250 with them and getting 3 good players for the Twins in 1-4 years is going to be acceptable to me. Why? They are all replaceable. If the Twins can get a couple guys for a few of them (Willingham and Morneau, maybe) then all the better.

I doubt the Correia and Roenicke are going to go away though. Carroll maybe for some cash and/or a PTBNL.

Shane Wahl
07-30-2013, 01:12 PM
Stop. The Twins organization will never have a fire sale. Organizations that respect their fans don't do this. They will move players that make sense, not move them because they have nothing better to do.

Is it more respectful to keep a bunch of marginal minor league players and aging veterans for no good reason instead of turning them over and seeing if they can get any kind of return and fresh blood to fill the ranks? Is it more respectful to keep toying with players like Parmelee and Arcia? How about Herrmann, Pinto,Albers, Tonkin, etc. etc.?

Spicoli
07-30-2013, 01:12 PM
Mauer is definently one of the players we need for a WS run in the next few years. He just turned 30 and with the way he plays he will be hitting good for a long time. He will be hitting good til hes 35,36,37... Even though hes missed the last few games hes still the best catcher in the league this year. He has the highest WAR and OBP of any catcher and is 2nd in OPS and has the 3rd most doubles in the league and was 2nd before he took time off. I might be rambling but my point is Mauer will be an elite hitter for a long time.

Mauer, Perkins, Hicks and Gibson are the only players on the team now that are gonna be apart of the team in the future when are are trying to contend.

mike wants wins
07-30-2013, 01:13 PM
Organizations that respect their fans have more than 1 legit MLB hitter in the lineup.

Winston Smith
07-30-2013, 01:17 PM
Do they really still work the phones? Wouldn't you think they have Instant Messaging and E-mail? Everyone is saying work the phones.

TR's phone:
http://fourthsocial.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Old-Phone.jpg

Winston Smith
07-30-2013, 01:21 PM
TR's stat guy:

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/braverabbit/braverabbit1006/braverabbit100600012/7258915-3d-rendering-illustration-of-a-cute-cartoon-boy-standing-in-front-of-an-abacus.jpg

cmb0252
07-30-2013, 01:23 PM
Stop. The Twins organization will never have a fire sale. Organizations that respect their fans don't do this. They will move players that make sense, not move them because they have nothing better to do.

I don't want respect. I want a respectable team. Staying ideal when your team is as bad as the Twins gets us no where.

Blackjack
07-30-2013, 01:29 PM
You guys crack me up with all your anger and angst over whether Terry Ryan makes a trade or not.

My prediction, he'll make one trade, I'll go out on a limb and say Duensing is gone.

If he makes more than two I'll eat my mouse.

Vervehound
07-30-2013, 01:39 PM
This topic might be more relevant tomorrow. As far as we know, TR is working the phones like crazy.

i heard they're using their savings from the international pool to help pay their phone bill so he shouldn't have any problems receiving calls.

TwinsFanInPhilly
07-30-2013, 01:40 PM
No matter what "JR" does, the usual suspects will complain. If he makes trades the moaning will be that he didn't get enough in return. If no trades are made, the moaning will be he doesn't care. Anyone see the trend?

cmb0252
07-30-2013, 01:44 PM
You guys crack me up with all your anger and angst over whether Terry Ryan makes a trade or not.

My prediction, he'll make one trade, I'll go out on a limb and say Duensing is gone.

If he makes more than two I'll eat my mouse.

Anger and angst is a little harsh. It is just annoying that, quoting an Aaron Gleeman tweet, " so many trade deadline reports and rumors flying around right now, but it's amazing how few involve the Twins." We were perceived to be one of the few sellers going into the trade deadline and we haven't even been a real player, at least publicly.

Badsmerf
07-30-2013, 01:45 PM
It makes no sense to trade a guy that is a legit MLB player (example: Burton) for a guy that has little chance of making any kind of impact down the road. Get a good prospect and it makes sense, trading just to get a warm body does not.

GM's are not stupid. You all are assuming Ryan isn't making a trade because he is tight? He hasn't made a trade because he hasn't been offered a good enough deal. Teams don't just panic and give away players that have a shot at a future in their organization (unless you're Bill Smith).

Badsmerf
07-30-2013, 01:50 PM
Anger and angst is a little harsh. It is just annoying that, quoting an Aaron Gleeman tweet, " so many trade deadline reports and rumors flying around right now, but it's amazing how few involve the Twins." We were perceived to be one of the few sellers going into the trade deadline and we haven't even been a real player, at least publicly.
Who are you going to trade!?

Morneau: one of the worst 1b in the league with a huge contract....
RP: any of the RP the Twins have now not named Perkins hasn't built enough equity to be worth much
Perkins: young, good, controlled contract at team friendly price.... high asking price, might still get dealt with the right offer

ThePuck
07-30-2013, 02:01 PM
Stop. The Twins organization will never have a fire sale. Organizations that respect their fans don't do this. They will move players that make sense, not move them because they have nothing better to do.

Are you saying the Twins organization is one that respects their fans?

drjim
07-30-2013, 02:03 PM
Anger and angst is a little harsh. It is just annoying that, quoting an Aaron Gleeman tweet, " so many trade deadline reports and rumors flying around right now, but it's amazing how few involve the Twins." We were perceived to be one of the few sellers going into the trade deadline and we haven't even been a real player, at least publicly.

Read the rumors - they are big names that lead to clicks but probably won't be moved (ahem, Cliff Lee). National writers don't waste their time on the bit guys the Twins might trade. No one gets excited for Duensing or Burton.

S.
07-30-2013, 02:04 PM
Are you saying the Twins organization is one that respects their fans?
Something something something, gonna get some darn good pitchers...

StormJH1
07-30-2013, 02:11 PM
I agree with some of the earlier comments on Pelfrey - you think a 2-month rental for Liriano or Morneau would have crappy returns? A Pelfrey rental would be even more brutal. His last 4 starts have been pretty good. If he's turned a corner in his TJ recovery, and this is they type of pitcher he is, he might even be a guy you bring back next year as a mid-rotation guy. If not, that's fine too.

I guess the point is that Morneau should be traded, but if the offers all suck, it's really not the end of the world that he plays another 2 months here.

JB_Iowa
07-30-2013, 02:11 PM
Anger and angst is a little harsh.
Basically its just a resigned acceptance for me at this point. Can't even work up anger or angst over this team anymore.

drjim
07-30-2013, 02:12 PM
No team that respects their fans would have a down cycle.

old nurse
07-30-2013, 02:24 PM
No team that respects their fans would have a down cycle.
Other than the Cards, Yankees and Red Sox, which team hasn't had a down cycle recently?

stringer bell
07-30-2013, 02:42 PM
Actually, the Red Sox have had a bit of a down cycle, if you ask me.

John Bonnes
07-30-2013, 02:52 PM
Make a move?

If this thread was started during the offseason, when the Twins are in a position to buy some free agents, I'd agree. But at the trade deadline, when the team has little to no assets to trade, what exactly is the move that needs to be made?

I think we're going to lose Morneau, and I think we'll be underwhelmed by what we get for him, and I think that will still be fair. About the only thing that would disappoint me is if the Twins don't pay some of his salary. If not, it's going to feel like they were more interested in saving money than looking to the future again.

Chris Schad
07-30-2013, 02:55 PM
Make a move?

If this thread was started during the offseason, when the Twins are in a position to buy some free agents, I'd agree. But at the trade deadline, when the team has little to no assets to trade, what exactly is the move that needs to be made?

I think we're going to lose Morneau, and I think we'll be underwhelmed by what we get for him, and I think that will still be fair. About the only thing that would disappoint me is if the Twins don't pay some of his salary. If not, it's going to feel like they were more interested in saving money than looking to the future again.

I agree, everybody wants a full fledged roster overhaul to get younger talent or whatever. There's just nothing that makes contending GMs start drooling. I made an article on what I thought would happen, but if anybody is expecting a full-fledged fire sale, they're dreaming.

Y! SPORTS (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/justin-morneau-other-minnesota-twins-could-dealt-mlb-174900121.html)

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-30-2013, 02:57 PM
Actually, the Red Sox have had a bit of a down cycle, if you ask me.
Yankees are also in year 1 of a down cycle, they are going to lose Cano and Rivera this off-season and have zero real "studs" any more.

Those big Tex, Jeter and A-Rod contracts are so epic.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-30-2013, 02:59 PM
I would really hate to see Morneaus Minnesota time end with him being traded for the next Mark Hamburger.

If we can't get anything of any sort of value (and I'm talking it has to be better than a ceiling of a future middle relief pitcher or a 4th OF/Util Inf) then I would rather he just play his last two months here and get a proper Twins send off at the end of the year.

If someone wants to overpay and give you a guy that can be a SP or a lottery ticket, then do it, but I don't see that happening.

Nick Nelson
07-30-2013, 03:11 PM
The value in trading Morneau is that it opens playing time for guys who may be factors going forward and need to be on the field. I don't expect to get anything meaningful in return, especially with the way he's played in July.

Major Leauge Ready
07-30-2013, 03:14 PM
Perkins is our only chance at an asset that will contribute to rebuilding. I would let Doumit go just to give Hermann a shot at proving himself at the MLB level.

stringer bell
07-30-2013, 03:20 PM
Perkins is our only chance at an asset that will contribute to rebuilding. I would let Doumit go just to give Hermann a shot at proving himself at the MLB level.I guess I don't see any chance of Herrmann becoming more than a 25th player. His numbers at AA and AAA scream ....mediocre at best. He's done well as a major leaguer, but I doubt he was trying less hard at New Britain and Rochester. I like Pinto a lot more and hope he gets some time this year.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-30-2013, 03:26 PM
The value in trading Morneau is that it opens playing time for guys who may be factors going forward and need to be on the field. I don't expect to get anything meaningful in return, especially with the way he's played in July.

There are already plenty of at bats for Parmelee if he would ever step up.... I'm not sure who else needs those at bats moving forward. Arcia will get his regardless and a guy like Colabello (or whatever) isn't going to be a starting option moving forward, a borderline bench bat and a great story, but he doesn't need the at bats.

This isn't exactly Douggie Glove with Morneau knocking on the door.

SpiritofVodkaDave
07-30-2013, 03:27 PM
I guess I don't see any chance of Herrmann becoming more than a 25th player. His numbers at AA and AAA scream ....mediocre at best. He's done well as a major leaguer, but I doubt he was trying less hard at New Britain and Rochester. I like Pinto a lot more and hope he gets some time this year.

Yeah Hermann is a nice guy to have as Org depth, and is nice as long as he is still cheap. But I would be shocked if he is still in the org by the time he hits arb.

I'd like to see Pinto up as well.

AM.
07-30-2013, 03:36 PM
Make a move?

If this thread was started during the offseason, when the Twins are in a position to buy some free agents, I'd agree. But at the trade deadline, when the team has little to no assets to trade, what exactly is the move that needs to be made?

I think we're going to lose Morneau, and I think we'll be underwhelmed by what we get for him, and I think that will still be fair. About the only thing that would disappoint me is if the Twins don't pay some of his salary. If not, it's going to feel like they were more interested in saving money than looking to the future again.

John, you sound reasonable, but it feels like you are parroting the company line here. Are Feldman, Crain, Veras, Downs, Hairston and Soriano any more "tradeable assets" than Duensing, Burton, Doumit, Pelfrey, Fien, Willingham or Morneau, let alone Perkins?

This season is lost, and it's the third straight 90+ loss season. It seems clear that acquiring any kind of pieces that could help in the future should be the goal. And while the Twins brass has said they are in "sell" mode, it sure doesn't seem like it...at least not in comparison to several other sellers. Maybe Ryan is "working the phones" and saving all of his really big moves for the last 24 hours.....but I am skeptical...

jay
07-30-2013, 04:08 PM
Are Feldman, Crain, Veras, Downs, Hairston and Soriano any more "tradeable assets" than Duensing, Burton, Doumit, Pelfrey, Fien, Willingham or Morneau, let alone Perkins?

So, six guys have been traded to fill some various roles on contenders. If 10 teams are "sellers", we're talking less than 1 trade per seller.

Downs and Hairston are the only two where the Twins have a comparable guy they could have offered (Duensing and Doumit). What was the return for those two trades? Marginal. Perkins could bring a haul, but plenty of folks here don't support trading him.

It's not to say we aren't all hopeful a move happens for various reasons, but I'd say John is using more perspective than company line.

Alex
07-30-2013, 04:10 PM
The value in trading Morneau is that it opens playing time for guys who may be factors going forward and need to be on the field. I don't expect to get anything meaningful in return, especially with the way he's played in July.

Exactly.

big dog
07-30-2013, 04:15 PM
So, six guys have been traded to fill some various roles on contenders. If 10 teams are "sellers", we're talking less than 1 trade per seller.

Downs and Hairston are the only two where the Twins have a comparable guy they could have offered (Duensing and Doumit).

I think even that's a stretch- I'd take Downs over Duensing in a second. Trade Doumit to open up a spot in the lineup? Sure. Trade to get valuable chips? Naw...

Halsey Hall
07-30-2013, 04:19 PM
I expect Morneau to be here next year. I really wouldn't be surprised, or disappointed if there were no moves now.

Kobs
07-30-2013, 06:02 PM
This topic might be more relevant tomorrow. As far as we know, TR is working the phones like crazy.

If there's one thing we know, it's that JR is not working the phones "like crazy." He may be having a slow discourse or two with some other GM he is comfortable with about some sort of move they might consider to net the Twins a no hit infielder.

Linus
07-30-2013, 07:18 PM
[aqQUOTE=Kobs;146222]If there's one thing we know, it's that JR is not working the phones "like crazy." He may be having a slow discourse or two with some other GM he is comfortable with about some sort of move they might consider to net the Twins a no hit infielder.[/QUOTE]

Really, we know this? That's amazing - you should be the GM. Mind reading would be such an advantage at the trading deadline.

AM.
07-30-2013, 07:18 PM
If there's one thing we know, it's that JR is not working the phones "like crazy." He may be having a slow discourse or two with some other GM he is comfortable with about some sort of move they might consider to net the Twins a no hit infielder.

It sounds like you have a mole in the Twins' war room!

AM.
07-30-2013, 07:22 PM
I really wouldn't be surprised, or disappointed if there were no moves now.

I definitely would not be surprised, but I would be disappointed. As for Morneau returning next year, that also wouldn't surprise me, nor would it disappoint me.

The surprise I am hoping for is Colabello turning into a multi-year asset.

Thrylos
07-30-2013, 08:01 PM
Here is a comparison:

Dave Hollins 1996: .242/.364/.396, 13 HR, 53 RBI
Justin Morneau 2013: .264/.324/.396, 8 HR, 53 RBI

Hollins brought back a certain 20 year old David Arias who was hitting .322/.390/.511 with 18 HR and 93 RBI in the Midwest League. He was not an unknown... No reason that Morneau cannot bring something similar back, esp. if the Twins pay most of the $ he is owed.

Halsey Hall
07-30-2013, 08:39 PM
I doubt there's a player in baseball that would bring back a David Arias.

diehardtwinsfan
07-30-2013, 09:05 PM
Here is a comparison:

Dave Hollins 1996: .242/.364/.396, 13 HR, 53 RBI
Justin Morneau 2013: .264/.324/.396, 8 HR, 53 RBI

Hollins brought back a certain 20 year old David Arias who was hitting .322/.390/.511 with 18 HR and 93 RBI in the Midwest League. He was not an unknown... No reason that Morneau cannot bring something similar back, esp. if the Twins pay most of the $ he is owed.

That was 17 years ago. Prospects are looked at a bit differently these days.

Major Leauge Ready
07-30-2013, 09:32 PM
I definitely would not be surprised, but I would be disappointed. As for Morneau returning next year, that also wouldn't surprise me, nor would it disappoint me.

The surprise I am hoping for is Colabello turning into a multi-year asset.

I too am hoping Colabello will be the guy that turns this trend of guys killing it at AAA and then not making it at the MLB level. It would be great if he could bridge the gap until Harrison, Hicks or Vargas come up or maybe even Walker gets coverted to 1B.

chopper0080
07-30-2013, 09:37 PM
Perkins, Morneau and Pelfrey should all go, as well as Duensing and Doumit if anybody will take them. TR is making a huge mistake if he is holding onto Perkins, the one real asset we have. And both Morneau and Pelfrey are in contract years so why not get what you can? Ugh.

Shane Wahl
07-30-2013, 10:13 PM
I don't understand much of the above. I really don't. First of all, Morneau can be traded AND then signed in the offseason, and the deal to get him is going to be nothing like his yearly rate for the past several years. Second, I don't understand why the alternative--keeping Morneau, Doumit, Duensing, Burton, etc. is really at all preferable to getting a bunch of minor league players back who might actually become legitimate players. Third, the guys mentioned to be traded are ALL replaceable. Perhaps immediately, but certainly by the beginning of next season.

cmb0252
07-30-2013, 11:10 PM
I don't understand much of the above. I really don't. First of all, Morneau can be traded AND then signed in the offseason, and the deal to get him is going to be nothing like his yearly rate for the past several years. Second, I don't understand why the alternative--keeping Morneau, Doumit, Duensing, Burton, etc. is really at all preferable to getting a bunch of minor league players back who might actually become legitimate players. Third, the guys mentioned to be traded are ALL replaceable. Perhaps immediately, but certainly by the beginning of next season.

You and chopper nail it. They are all replaceable. Even Perkins.

drjim
07-30-2013, 11:12 PM
You and chopper nail it. They are all replaceable. Even Perkins.

This is surely true, but outside of Perkins they aren't getting much more than a bucket of balls.

old nurse
07-31-2013, 01:38 AM
Pelfrey and Duensing must read this stuff and pitched like people who did not want to be traded.

Joe A. Preusser
07-31-2013, 04:25 AM
You and chopper nail it. They are all replaceable. Even Perkins.

Valid point, but I think we'd all agree that it is much harder to replace an all-star caliber player than a guy like Carroll or Doumit. Not saying we can't, especially with our track record with the pen and the relative easy path to establishing a new closer, but I wonder about the mindset where we so casually assume we won't miss a beat after we unload Perk. That is by no means a foregone conclusion.

Marta Shearing
07-31-2013, 05:04 AM
Literally every single twin on the trading block has played horribly of late or is injured.

jay
07-31-2013, 01:28 PM
I don't understand much of the above. I really don't. First of all, Morneau can be traded AND then signed in the offseason, and the deal to get him is going to be nothing like his yearly rate for the past several years. Second, I don't understand why the alternative--keeping Morneau, Doumit, Duensing, Burton, etc. is really at all preferable to getting a bunch of minor league players back who might actually become legitimate players. Third, the guys mentioned to be traded are ALL replaceable. Perhaps immediately, but certainly by the beginning of next season.


You and chopper nail it. They are all replaceable. Even Perkins.


This is surely true, but outside of Perkins they aren't getting much more than a bucket of balls.

The bucket of balls is exactly the problem. If we could get guys back that had even a remote chance of being legitimate regulars, TR would make that deal. I just don't think he's getting those offers.

So, when he trades off Morneau or Pelfrey or Doumit for a barely marginal return, he's realistically not accomplishing anything other than shedding salary (for which he'd be burned here). If the offers aren't there, it's okay to say no. Otherwise, you turn into the next Billy Smith who would trade to trade because he thought he had to.

I've seen the point about re-signing Morneau in the offseason if they trade him, but it just doesn't really happen. An Asst. GM, "You have to be realistic that if you trade a guy, you are not going to be able to re-sign him. That is what history shows."

stringer bell
07-31-2013, 01:52 PM
I've seen the point about re-signing Morneau in the offseason if they trade him, but it just doesn't really happen. An Asst. GM, "You have to be realistic that if you trade a guy, you are not going to be able to re-sign him. That is what history shows."
I've been wanting to say this for quite a while. It is about 99% certain that if a free agent to be is traded that they aren't coming back to the team that trades him. The exceptions (so few of them) prove the rule.

Mr. Brooks
07-31-2013, 01:59 PM
I don't understand much of the above. I really don't. First of all, Morneau can be traded AND then signed in the offseason, and the deal to get him is going to be nothing like his yearly rate for the past several years. Second, I don't understand why the alternative--keeping Morneau, Doumit, Duensing, Burton, etc. is really at all preferable to getting a bunch of minor league players back who might actually become legitimate players. Third, the guys mentioned to be traded are ALL replaceable. Perhaps immediately, but certainly by the beginning of next season.

Didn't you guarantee me going into the season that Morneau would OPS north of .900 this season? That doesn't sound like a guy who as easily replaceable as you infer above, at least not by anyone in our system.

drjim
07-31-2013, 04:01 PM
I've been wanting to say this for quite a while. It is about 99% certain that if a free agent to be is traded that they aren't coming back to the team that trades him. The exceptions (so few of them) prove the rule.

I agree with this. It would take a very unique situation for this to happen. It bothers me a little that national guys like Law mention this so casually even with so few examples to draw from.

mike wants wins
07-31-2013, 09:36 PM
Why would you want Morneau back in the first place. This team has no hitting. Not surprised that nothing happened to make the team better. We will just have to rely on free agency and all those guys ready to play in the minors.

ThePuck
07-31-2013, 09:48 PM
Why would you want Morneau back in the first place. This team has no hitting. Not surprised that nothing happened to make the team better. We will just have to rely on free agency and all those guys ready to play in the minors.

Morny has been my favorite Twin since he's been with us and even I think it's time for him to move on.

mike wants wins
07-31-2013, 09:50 PM
Agreed, my favorite also. But you do not build a winner on hope and sentiment.