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View Full Version : Terry Ryan/Scott Baker 4:00 Press Conference



Seth Stohs
04-11-2012, 03:19 PM
Dustin Morse (from the Twins PR department) just tweeted that Terry Ryan and Scott Baker will have a press conference at Target Field at 4:00 today.

Can't be good, right?

Let the speculation begin, but as we hear what the situation is, we'll be sure to report it here so you can continue to discuss.

595

StormJH1
04-11-2012, 03:26 PM
Um, no. Can't imagine they would throw a press conference just to announce that Baker's going to rest a little more and then rehab. Then again, did they have press conferences to announce other pitchers needed Tommy John, etc. in the past?!

Seth Stohs
04-11-2012, 03:28 PM
He did get back from seeing Dr. Altcheck, so could be an update on that.

BigVin
04-11-2012, 03:29 PM
Interesting.............I don't recall us ever holding a press conference before like this? Can't be good!

Shaun in Chicago
04-11-2012, 03:30 PM
Since Baker is going to be there, I don't think this is good news.

Cody Christie
04-11-2012, 03:31 PM
Contract extension...

I'm just kidding.

I am guess that it is bad news. It looks like Liam Hendriks will be staying up with the Twins for longer than expected

BigVin
04-11-2012, 03:35 PM
Cruising thru different websites, it appears there are a lot of speculation that he'll be needing Tommy John Surgery. The fact that they are holding a press conference would leave me to believe it would be something like this. Something major. :(

twinzgrl
04-11-2012, 03:36 PM
What else can possibly go wrong? Does this mean Duensing becomes a starter again?

BigVin
04-11-2012, 03:37 PM
Hendriks will take his spot, and Swarzak i'd imagine would fill Marquis till he is back with the team.

James
04-11-2012, 03:45 PM
Ahh.... (explative deleted).

twinsnorth49
04-11-2012, 03:48 PM
Ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggg ggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not.....going....to....be.....good.

Seth Stohs
04-11-2012, 03:50 PM
what I don't want to hear during this press conference... "Rest and Rehab."

diehardtwinsfan
04-11-2012, 03:53 PM
what I don't want to hear during this press conference... "Rest and Rehab."

I don't know... do you really think they pick up his 9 million dollar option if he's getting tommy john?

StormJH1
04-11-2012, 03:55 PM
This is a bizarre conference. If he needs Tommy John surgery, why is a presser necessary? What questions would/could Baker need to answer and listen to. Normally, they don't trot guys who have just gotten really bad news about injuries in front of the fans/media, unless there is some need to "explain" something.

Don't have a good feeling, obviously.

twinsnorth49
04-11-2012, 03:56 PM
what I don't want to hear during this press conference... "Rest and Rehab."


The only other word will be "surgery", sadly if that was the case, we would have heard it already. Be prepared Seth.

Seth Stohs
04-11-2012, 04:00 PM
I don't know... do you really think they pick up his 9 million dollar option if he's getting tommy john?

Nope, they won't.

Clare Chen
04-11-2012, 04:00 PM
Great week to start off the season.

Neinstein
04-11-2012, 04:03 PM
It has been announced that it will not be a standard press conference.. so.. not good.

Shaun in Chicago
04-11-2012, 04:04 PM
Out 6 months...get the feeling his Twins career is over.

nicksaviking
04-11-2012, 04:08 PM
Perhaps the press conference will tell us that Baker spent enough time in hospitals that he has discovered a cure for cancer.



....and he'll need TJ surgery.

gunnarthor
04-11-2012, 04:10 PM
Crap. So why wasn't this injury diagnosed last year, when he was hurt?

James
04-11-2012, 04:11 PM
Out 6 months...get the feeling his Twins career is over.
Maybe not. Maybe he signs for much less than $9Mil on a one year deal after his option is declined.

@_2244
04-11-2012, 04:12 PM
http://www.twinsdaily.com/showthread.php?729-Baker-Off-season-maintenance

Thrylos
04-11-2012, 04:13 PM
I hope that:

a. Terry Ryan fires the Twins' medical staff that misdiagnosed and mistreated Baker's elbow situation last summer (if fixed then, he would be back now) and
b. Hendriks really watches what he eats for the rest of the season
c. with the insurance $ he will be getting for Baker, he is trying to find at least one pen arm out there

Neinstein
04-11-2012, 04:13 PM
Flexor/Pronator Tendon

I'm not a pro when it comes to anatomy, but that tendon supports two separate muscles?

lwarring
04-11-2012, 04:14 PM
For God's sake... bring back the pine trees and end the madness :)

JB_Iowa
04-11-2012, 04:15 PM
On and on and on and on ....

Perhaps there was nothing to be done last year (when this same problem was apparently bothering him) -- but at what point do you look at the Twins medical and training staff and say "What are you getting paid for?"

gunnarthor
04-11-2012, 04:16 PM
For God's sake... bring back the pine trees and end the madness :)

That made me laugh. +1

twinsnorth49
04-11-2012, 04:17 PM
It's not Tommy John but his season is over. Flexor Pronator Tendon, 6 month rehab.........................Damn!!

Captain Kirkus
04-11-2012, 04:17 PM
For $9.25M you could get a more consistent non-injury prone pitcher. Thanks for 2009 Scott Baker.

Shaun in Chicago
04-11-2012, 04:18 PM
100% agree Thrylos. I don't understand why the Twins waste time with addressing injuries properly right away.

mnwildgophers
04-11-2012, 04:19 PM
It's too bad. Baker was really one of our only bright spots last year. He continues to have problems with his elbow though. I don't know if it's so good for Hendriks' development to pitch up here all year if he's not ready for it. I hope he is because we don't really have many other options right now.

nicksaviking
04-11-2012, 04:22 PM
How do you "clean up" a tendon? Are they washing and drying it? Are the removing some bone spurs? If so, that sounds like the procedure Joe Nathan had. You know, the one that caused him to need TJ surgery the next spring.

Regardless, with Baker's option really no longer an option, that leaves one current starter under contract for next season, Nick Blackburn of course.

Boom Boom
04-11-2012, 04:24 PM
So now we're officially worse than 0-4. I hope Hendriks can keep away from those Baltimore crab cakes this time.

Highabove
04-11-2012, 04:27 PM
I thought our crack medical staff had cleared him to play?

Highabove
04-11-2012, 04:29 PM
Didn't Twins Management say that Baker needed to tough it up??

Whats going on????

twinswon1991
04-11-2012, 04:31 PM
At least the Twins are now guaranteed to have the number 1 pick in the 2013 draft. They need to restock their pathetic farm system. I hope they can compete by 2017.

ThatsRich
04-11-2012, 04:51 PM
Maybe Kevin Slowey is available... :p

John Bonnes
04-11-2012, 04:53 PM
I was locked and loaded to go ballistic (again) on the Twins med staff for this, but I can understand this one. First, here's some info on this injury:

http://www.drdavidgeier.com/injuries/flexor-pronator-strain/

The usual diagnosis for this is rest - ONCE it is confirmed that it isn't the ulnar ligament, usually from an MRI. That's why the Twins, a week ago, said the MRI was good news. But this tendon has apparently been through enough that it appears the problems is chronic, or can't be pitched through. Thus, the "clean up" surgery, which I assume means smoothing out (or snipping) some frayed pieces of tendon.

I could argue the Twins should have done an MRI a month ago, but I don't know if it would have changed much.

LaBombo
04-11-2012, 04:59 PM
On and on and on and on ....

Perhaps there was nothing to be done last year (when this same problem was apparently bothering him) -- but at what point do you look at the Twins medical and training staff and say "What are you getting paid for?"

At what point?

Mid-season of 2011, at the very latest, for a complete incompetent like Bill Smith.

Well before that for a front office with some common sense and access to the internet.

Near the end of 2012, when virtually every opening day player or pitcher has spent weeks on the DL, if you're Terry Ryan.

He's not clueless like Smith, but he is cluelessly loyal at times.

LaBombo
04-11-2012, 05:10 PM
I was locked and loaded to go ballistic (again) on the Twins med staff for this, but I can understand this one. First, here's some info on this injury:


I could argue the Twins should have done an MRI a month ago, but I don't know if it would have changed much.

Or you could've argued that Terry Ryan probably should have gotten a worthwhile player or prospect for Baker in the offseason instead of bartering Carroll's Competitive Elixir, Marquis' Magical Snake Oil, and Zumaya's Zingy Heat Balm to Twins rubes out of the back of a wagon in exchange for season tickets.

They were going nowhere with Baker healthy. Now they're going nowhere without him or a prospect. The death spiral continues.

What's the shortest period of time a baseball team has played in a newly-constructed stadium before moving to a new city?

Highabove
04-11-2012, 05:14 PM
Did the Twins medical Staff miss it again?

Below is text from the St.Paul paper April 9

Ryan said the Twins are trying to get Baker some peace of mind."He's trying. He works hard. What are you going to do? He just doesn't feel right," Ryan said. "Patience is going to play out here, and we'll see if we can get him going. I'm sure after he has the second opinion, if it's the same results as the MRI that we gave him in Fort Myers, that will give him peace of mind. So we'll move on from there."

darin617
04-11-2012, 05:21 PM
Does anyone know for sure (not just guessing) if there was insurance taken out on Bakers contract? If so, how much will they get back. Sad thing about is they could get 75% of the money back and wouldn't spend it anyway. Also, nobody is out there except Oswalt, who would never come here.

Kneelb4zerg
04-11-2012, 05:22 PM
Or you could've argued that Terry Ryan probably should have gotten a worthwhile player or prospect for Baker in the offseason instead of bartering Carroll's Competitive Elixir, Marquis' Magical Snake Oil, and Zumaya's Zingy Heat Balm to Twins rubes out of the back of a wagon in exchange for season tickets.

They were going nowhere with Baker healthy. Now they're going nowhere without him or a prospect. The death spiral continues.

What's the shortest period of time a baseball team has played in a newly-constructed stadium before moving to a new city?
What were they going to get for Baker? He spent almost the entire 2H of the season on the DL, and he's not exactly cheap.

VodkaDave
04-11-2012, 05:35 PM
I was locked and loaded to go ballistic (again) on the Twins med staff for this, but I can understand this one. First, here's some info on this injury:

http://www.drdavidgeier.com/injuries/flexor-pronator-strain/

The usual diagnosis for this is rest - ONCE it is confirmed that it isn't the ulnar ligament, usually from an MRI. That's why the Twins, a week ago, said the MRI was good news. But this tendon has apparently been through enough that it appears the problems is chronic, or can't be pitched through. Thus, the "clean up" surgery, which I assume means smoothing out (or snipping) some frayed pieces of tendon.

I could argue the Twins should have done an MRI a month ago, but I don't know if it would have changed much.

Are you a doctor? If not it seems a little silly to go ballistic on the Twins medical staff for anything like this. They are trained professionals and some of the best in their respective fields.

Being frustrated with information or lack of information (especially with Mauer last year) is understandable, but to play Monday Morning Doctor when you have no expertise in the field (unless you are indeed a doctor or at least have a decent medical background) seems ranty just for the sake of being ranty. Pitcher's arms get hurt, it's what happens.

LaBombo
04-11-2012, 05:39 PM
What were they going to get for Baker? He spent almost the entire 2H of the season on the DL, and he's not exactly cheap.

He's cheap for a guy who posted a 3.14 ERA with strong peripherals. Dirt cheap. And contending teams gamble on players coming off of injuries all the time.
Especially ones with a logjam at a particular position. Quick, name a position where the Twins system is stocked...Ready, GO!
For heaven's sake, the Twins gave cash to the Phillies for the "non-prospect" Rizotti, who out-homered virtually every player in the organization from top to bottom.

So if a castoff like Rizotti can be gotten for nothing yet fill a serious void in the Twins' ailing farm system, how can you be certain Baker wouldn't be worth anything?

And by the way, what were they going to get if he stayed healthy and pitched well? 88 losses instead of 92? Whoopadeedoo!!!

THE DFC
04-11-2012, 05:43 PM
For God's sake... bring back the pine trees and end the madness :)

Amazing first post. :cool:

LaBombo
04-11-2012, 05:47 PM
Are you a doctor? If not it seems a little silly to go ballistic on the Twins medical staff for anything like this. They are trained professionals and some of the best in their respective fields.

Being frustrated with information or lack of information (especially with Mauer last year) is understandable, but to play Monday Morning Doctor when you have no expertise in the field (unless you are indeed a doctor or at least have a decent medical background) seems ranty just for the sake of being ranty. Pitcher's arms get hurt, it's what happens.

Are you serious? Do you even follow the Twins? The "medical staff" of the Twins is beyond reproach after having more trouble keeping its players on the field last season than any other team in baseball? They led the league in DL usages at 27 for the season, and the Twins own F-ing GM Terry Ryan said the medical staff and its procedures would be scrutinized in the offseason, for god's sake. Last I heard he's not a doctor either. Wake up.

VodkaDave
04-11-2012, 05:47 PM
He's cheap for a guy who posted a 3.14 ERA with strong peripherals. Dirt cheap. And contending teams gamble on players coming off of injuries all the time.
Especially ones with a logjam at a particular position. Quick, name a position where the Twins system is stocked...Ready, GO!
For heaven's sake, the Twins gave cash to the Phillies for the "non-prospect" Rizotti, who out-homered virtually every player in the organization from top to bottom.

So if a castoff like Rizotti can be gotten for nothing yet fill a serious void in the Twins' ailing farm system, how can you be certain Baker wouldn't be worth anything?

And by the way, what were they going to get if he stayed healthy and pitched well? 88 losses instead of 92? Whoopadeedoo!!!

I'm not sure what serious void Rizotti fills in the Twins farm system, I like the trade, but finding a no field, 26 year old AAA DH type isn't exactly that difficult. The Phillies (who have plenty of 1st base issues themselves) let him go for a reason.

Not crapping on Rizotti, but to compare that trade to a potential hypothetical Baker trade is pretty silly.

Highabove
04-11-2012, 05:49 PM
Are you a doctor? If not it seems a little silly to go ballistic on the Twins medical staff for anything like this. They are trained professionals and some of the best in their respective fields.

Being frustrated with information or lack of information (especially with Mauer last year) is understandable, but to play Monday Morning Doctor when you have no expertise in the field (unless you are indeed a doctor or at least have a decent medical background) seems ranty just for the sake of being ranty. Pitcher's arms get hurt, it's what happens.

You do not need to be a Doctor to see the screw up. Read Ryan,s quotes leading up to the second Medical Opinion.

VodkaDave
04-11-2012, 05:50 PM
Are you serious? Do you even follow the Twins? The "medical staff" of the Twins is beyond reproach after having more trouble keeping its players on the field last season than any other team in baseball? They led the league in DL usages at 27 for the season, and the Twins own F-ing GM Terry Ryan said the medical staff and its procedures would be scrutinized in the offseason, for god's sake. Last I heard he's not a doctor either. Wake up.

I think they deserve blame for the Mauer situation, for at the very least not being clear.
But I'm not sure how the medical staff is supposed to magically fix arms (which ALL teams in baseball deal with) or fix concussion syndromes. My biggest problem was the fact they would have a guy sit on the bench "hurt" for 4-5 days before deciding to DL him. But I think that is more a GM/Coach issue than a team doctor issue.

The Twins had a million injuries last year, but at the end of the day it comes down to really crappy luck more than anything.

VodkaDave
04-11-2012, 05:52 PM
You do not need to be a Doctor to see the screw up. Read Ryan,s quotes leading up to the second Medical Opinion.

Again, this is an issue with the front office and the fact they are absolutely awful at letting the press/public know about injury specifics (see: 2011 Mauer)

mikeee
04-11-2012, 05:55 PM
Maybe Kevin Slowey is available... :p

:D that is funny.
Kind of scarey too.

LaBombo
04-11-2012, 05:59 PM
I think they deserve blame for the Mauer situation, for at the very least not being clear.
But I'm not sure how the medical staff is supposed to magically fix arms (which ALL teams in baseball deal with) or fix concussion syndromes. My biggest problem was the fact they would have a guy sit on the bench "hurt" for 4-5 days before deciding to DL him. But I think that is more a GM/Coach issue than a team doctor issue.

The Twins had a million injuries last year, but at the end of the day it comes down to really crappy luck more than anything.

Hmm. Your opinion or Ryan's?

I'm a little down on Ryan, but I'm going to go with a boss who hates publicly criticizing anyone, but who's disappointed enough with his medical and training staff to be critical of them in public

Kneelb4zerg
04-11-2012, 06:03 PM
He's cheap for a guy who posted a 3.14 ERA with strong peripherals. Dirt cheap. And contending teams gamble on players coming off of injuries all the time.
Especially ones with a logjam at a particular position. Quick, name a position where the Twins system is stocked...Ready, GO!
For heaven's sake, the Twins gave cash to the Phillies for the "non-prospect" Rizotti, who out-homered virtually every player in the organization from top to bottom.

So if a castoff like Rizotti can be gotten for nothing yet fill a serious void in the Twins' ailing farm system, how can you be certain Baker wouldn't be worth anything?

And by the way, what were they going to get if he stayed healthy and pitched well? 88 losses instead of 92? Whoopadeedoo!!!

Awfully easy to look back in hindsight and criticize for nottrading a Player who ended up seriously hurt. Did you ever think that a healthy baker could recover or increase in value? Should the Twins just trade every injury prone player, no matter the return?

LaBombo
04-11-2012, 06:07 PM
I'm not sure what serious void Rizotti fills in the Twins farm system, I like the trade, but finding a no field, 26 year old AAA DH type isn't exactly that difficult. The Phillies (who have plenty of 1st base issues themselves) let him go for a reason.

Not crapping on Rizotti, but to compare that trade to a potential hypothetical Baker trade is pretty silly.

Void? How about players who can hit for power, or even hit, for that matter? If AAA guys who can hit are so easy to find,
why didn't Rochester have a single g*dd@mned one of them last year?

Except for Plouffe, their two top homer guys were Dustin Martin, who they cut, and Jeff Bailey, who had 15 "bombs" and is 34 freaking years old. VOID!

What's silly is that you don't get that Rizotti has value to the Twins, and cost nothing, and that Baker was worth more than nothing in the offseason. Nothing < Rizotti < Guy you get for Baker.

Highabove
04-11-2012, 06:09 PM
The Twins Medical Staff MISSED THE DIAGNOSIS!!

Two days ago, Ryan stated that a second opinion would give Baker some piece of mind. Then hopefully he could move on and pitch.

Another embarrassment for the Twins Brass.

LaBombo
04-11-2012, 06:13 PM
Awfully easy to look back in hindsight and criticize for nottrading a Player who ended up seriously hurt. Did you ever think that a healthy baker could recover or increase in value? Should the Twins just trade every injury prone player, no matter the return?

The inevitable hindsight 20/20 charge. You're missing the point, which is that Baker was apparently retained with the false hope of contention. If his risk of injury was so high that he had no trade value, then it's safe to say that

a) the Twins should've planned on a rotation fronted by Liriano/Pavano/Blackburn

b) the Twins should've planned on at least 90-95 losses with a rotation like that, and not bothered with Carroll and Marquis, and arguably not even Zumaya. Willingham is still Willingham, and can probably be cashed in at some point.

mike wants wins
04-11-2012, 06:27 PM
Bummer, I've always been a Baker fan. Not a fan of the Twins' medical staff, however. Nor am I a fan of how this team handles guys with injuries. They poopoohed this just like they have other guys that are actually hurt.

VodkaDave
04-11-2012, 06:33 PM
Void? How about players who can hit for power, or even hit, for that matter? If AAA guys who can hit are so easy to find,
why didn't Rochester have a single g*dd@mned one of them last year?

Except for Plouffe, their two top homer guys were Dustin Martin, who they cut, and Jeff Bailey, who had 15 "bombs" and is 34 freaking years old. VOID!

What's silly is that you don't get that Rizotti has value to the Twins, and cost nothing, and that Baker was worth more than nothing in the offseason. Nothing < Rizotti < Guy you get for Baker.

Again Rizotti is a 26 year old DH guy. He has zero value in the field, none. This is why guys like him are easy to come by. Slick fielding MI or even OF who can hit are not easy to come by. It's pretty simple.

Kneelb4zerg
04-11-2012, 06:48 PM
The inevitable hindsight 20/20 charge. You're missing the point, which is that Baker was apparently retained with the false hope of contention. If his risk of injury was so high that he had no trade value, then it's safe to say that

a) the Twins should've planned on a rotation fronted by Liriano/Pavano/Blackburn

b) the Twins should've planned on at least 90-95 losses with a rotation like that, and not bothered with Carroll and Marquis, and arguably not even Zumaya. Willingham is still Willingham, and can probably be cashed in at some point.

No, you are missing the point. How do you know Bakwr was retained solely because they thought they were cOntenders? He was retained because he's a good pitcher. And if they kept him and he even just left as a free agent after performing well, that also has value in the form of draft pick compensation.

Riverbrian
04-11-2012, 06:55 PM
No way I know enough to criticize the medical staff. I will criticize whoever is collecting the Twins player voodoo dolls and the manufacturer of the push pins.

LaBombo
04-11-2012, 09:55 PM
Again Rizotti is a 26 year old DH guy. He has zero value in the field, none. This is why guys like him are easy to come by. Slick fielding MI or even OF who can hit are not easy to come by. It's pretty simple.

...and AGAIN, if that kind of player were easy for the Twins to find, they would've found one in 2011. They didn't. They used two roster spots on Jeff Bailey and Aaron Bates instead. They're not only not the hitter that Rizzo probably is, they're also older. In Bailey's case, much older.

If making a Rizzo appear out of thin air were so easy, why didn't they do so in 2011? Was it because there could be no possible need for him, what with Morneau being unavailable or awful the entire season, Thome being 102 years old and likely to be shipped out in a trade, a ton of other guys passing through the Twins' revolving door DL, and zero power-hitting prospects in the high minors? Is that why?

Also, there's a difference between not adding value in the field and not being able to play the field. Since Rizzotti falls into the former group, it's not accurate to call him a "DH guy".

But even if he were just a DH, he'd still have some potential value at the major league level since he can hit and, in a shocking development, it turns out that the Twins play in a DH league.

That's a fact that even the Twins seemed to have overlooked (with the brief, flyer-ish exception of Thome) since they banished David Ortiz to Boston for the crimes of being a DH guy and hitting too many home runs.

So I can't blame you for overlooking it as well.

One more thing. Baseball Prospectus ironically (and unfortunately for you and your weak argument) characterized Rizzotti as a guy who "might be a good trade chip for second-division team". They also pointed out that his value to the Philly organization was heavily diminished by their farm system being far too left-handed, which explains much of their lack of interest in retaining him.

Remember how you glibly dismissed every contrary opinion about the possible role of the Twins' medical and training staff in the Baker injury because those critics weren't doctors? Well, here's a medical analogy for your arguments re: Rizzo.

Baseball Prospectus is the Mayo Clinic of baseball performance evaluation and prediction. You're a guy sleeping on a steam grate behind the Mayo Clinic of baseball knowledge.

I'm going with the Mayo's opinion instead of yours, steam grate vodka man.

USAFChief
04-11-2012, 10:19 PM
...and AGAIN, if that kind of player were easy for the Twins to find, they would've found one in 2011. They didn't. They used two roster spots on Jeff Bailey and Aaron Bates instead. They're not only not the hitter that Rizzo probably is, they're also older. In Bailey's case, much older.

If making a Rizzo appear out of thin air were so easy, why didn't they do so in 2011? Was it because there could be no possible need for him, what with Morneau being unavailable or awful the entire season, Thome being 102 years old and likely to be shipped out in a trade, a ton of other guys passing through the Twins' revolving door DL, and zero power-hitting prospects in the high minors? Is that why?

Also, there's a difference between not adding value in the field and not being able to play the field. Since Rizzotti falls into the former group, it's not accurate to call him a "DH guy".

But even if he were just a DH, he'd still have some potential value at the major league level since he can hit and, in a shocking development, it turns out that the Twins play in a DH league.

That's a fact that even the Twins seemed to have overlooked (with the brief, flyer-ish exception of Thome) since they banished David Ortiz to Boston for the crimes of being a DH guy and hitting too many home runs.

So I can't blame you for overlooking it as well.

One more thing. Baseball Prospectus ironically (and unfortunately for you and your weak argument) characterized Rizzotti as a guy who "might be a good trade chip for second-division team". They also pointed out that his value to the Philly organization was heavily diminished by their farm system being far too left-handed, which explains much of their lack of interest in retaining him.

Remember how you glibly dismissed every contrary opinion about the possible role of the Twins' medical and training staff in the Baker injury because those critics weren't doctors? Well, here's a medical analogy for your arguments re: Rizzo.

Baseball Prospectus is the Mayo Clinic of baseball performance evaluation and prediction. You're a guy sleeping on a steam grate behind the Mayo Clinic of baseball knowledge.

I'm going with the Mayo's opinion instead of yours, steam grate vodka man.

The Mayo-Clinic-Of-Baseball-Performance-Evaluation-And-Prediction (can we refer to them as TMCOBPEAP from now on?) said he "might be a good trade chip for a second-division team?"

No kidding??!!

Well, hey. Start carving the Cooperstown Bust NOW!

And for the record, there was NO WAY IN HELL the Twins were trading Baker this past winter. None. Zilch. Zippo. For multiple reasons. And I'm skeptical, at best, that you didn't just come up with that idea today. That opinion comes from me...the Walter Reed Hospital of bullsh!t detection and evaluation.

You sorta nailed your description of Dave, though. Gotta give you that.

VodkaDave
04-11-2012, 10:19 PM
You sir are missing the point completely.. and your hyperbole only makes you look further ridiculous.

edit: this is in response to the post two above (not USAFCHIEF)

VodkaDave
04-11-2012, 10:23 PM
The Mayo-Clinic-Of-Baseball-Performance-Evaluation-And-Prediction (can we refer to them as TMCOBPEAP from now on?) said he "might be a good trade chip for a second-division team?"

No kidding??!!

Well, hey. Start carving the Cooperstown Bust NOW!

And for the record, there was NO WAY IN HELL the Twins were trading Baker this past winter. None. Zilch. Zippo. For multiple reasons. And I'm skeptical, at best, that you didn't just come up with that idea today. That opinion comes from me...the Walter Reed Hospital of bullsh!t detection and evaluation.

Haha very nice! +1 all around!

USAFChief
04-11-2012, 10:30 PM
Haha very nice! +1 all around!

Just so's ya know, Dave...you are henceforth and forever more "a guy sleeping on a steam grate behind the Mayo Clinic of baseball knowledge" at BYTO.

VodkaDave
04-11-2012, 10:33 PM
Just so's ya know, Dave...you are henceforth and forever more "a guy sleeping on a steam grate behind the Mayo Clinic of baseball knowledge" at BYTO.

Fine by me. Steam Grates are prime real estate here in NYC! Free heating, where as guy sleeping in the alley behind the Mayo Clinic of baseball knowledge has to deal with starting nightly hobo trashcan fires.

VodkaDave
04-11-2012, 10:57 PM
If making a Rizzo appear out of thin air were so easy, why didn't they do so in 2011? Was it because there could be no possible need for him, what with Morneau being unavailable or awful the entire season, Thome being 102 years old and likely to be shipped out in a trade, a ton of other guys passing through the Twins' revolving door DL, and zero power-hitting prospects in the high minors? Is that why?

Also, there's a difference between not adding value in the field and not being able to play the field. Since Rizzotti falls into the former group, it's not accurate to call him a "DH guy".

But even if he were just a DH, he'd still have some potential value at the major league level since he can hit and, in a shocking development, it turns out that the Twins play in a DH league.

That's a fact that even the Twins seemed to have overlooked (with the brief, flyer-ish exception of Thome) since they banished David Ortiz to Boston for the crimes of being a DH guy and hitting too many home runs.

So I can't blame you for overlooking it as well.

One more thing. Baseball Prospectus ironically (and unfortunately for you and your weak argument) characterized Rizzotti as a guy who "might be a good trade chip for second-division team". They also pointed out that his value to the Philly organization was heavily diminished by their farm system being far too left-handed, which explains much of their lack of interest in retaining him.



I actually couldn't find that trade chip thing, but I really don't care. On the subject of BP they project Rizzotti as a .251/.326/.411 hitter if he were to play in the majors this year. I'm sure a great baseball mind like yourself already realizes that a line like that out of your DH is actually quite awful, and also would be awful out of your first baseman (which would be assuming your 1st baseman at least brought some defensive of value...which he doesn't)

Once again, I thought the Rizzotti move was fine but it's not this organization changing move like you are trying to claim? Or something? I'm actually not even sure of the point you are trying to make.

twinsnorth49
04-11-2012, 11:02 PM
...and AGAIN, if that kind of player were easy for the Twins to find, they would've found one in 2011. They didn't. They used two roster spots on Jeff Bailey and Aaron Bates instead. They're not only not the hitter that Rizzo probably is, they're also older. In Bailey's case, much older.

If making a Rizzo appear out of thin air were so easy, why didn't they do so in 2011? Was it because there could be no possible need for him, what with Morneau being unavailable or awful the entire season, Thome being 102 years old and likely to be shipped out in a trade, a ton of other guys passing through the Twins' revolving door DL, and zero power-hitting prospects in the high minors? Is that why?

Also, there's a difference between not adding value in the field and not being able to play the field. Since Rizzotti falls into the former group, it's not accurate to call him a "DH guy".

But even if he were just a DH, he'd still have some potential value at the major league level since he can hit and, in a shocking development, it turns out that the Twins play in a DH league.

That's a fact that even the Twins seemed to have overlooked (with the brief, flyer-ish exception of Thome) since they banished David Ortiz to Boston for the crimes of being a DH guy and hitting too many home runs.

So I can't blame you for overlooking it as well.

One more thing. Baseball Prospectus ironically (and unfortunately for you and your weak argument) characterized Rizzotti as a guy who "might be a good trade chip for second-division team". They also pointed out that his value to the Philly organization was heavily diminished by their farm system being far too left-handed, which explains much of their lack of interest in retaining him.

Remember how you glibly dismissed every contrary opinion about the possible role of the Twins' medical and training staff in the Baker injury because those critics weren't doctors? Well, here's a medical analogy for your arguments re: Rizzo.

Baseball Prospectus is the Mayo Clinic of baseball performance evaluation and prediction. You're a guy sleeping on a steam grate behind the Mayo Clinic of baseball knowledge.

I'm going with the Mayo's opinion instead of yours, steam grate vodka man.


That is quite the rant my man, quite the rant. Here's the point, the Twins needed and wanted Baker, he's a good pitcher. They weren't going to trade him nor should they have, the 20/20 hindsight charge sticks, it's what you're doing.

Riverbrian
04-12-2012, 12:07 AM
I actually had to read the thread a couple of times to get the connection between Baker and Matt Rizotti and the Mayo Clinic and Steam Grates. When you read it the second time... It becomes much clearer.

If you think about what Labombo is saying... its quite simple... Think of it this way.

Willy Mo Pena signed with a Japanese team this winter. He was walking through the woods to get there and he ran across the pope and you know what the pope does in the woods. Therefore Rizzoti likes Gorillas as long as they are not rogue and the Mayo Clinic has a steam grate which is the source of all information contained in the head of George Will. Vodkadave sleeps on this Steam grate blocking anything from flowing in and out. Which makes George Will dizzy but it also contains the Gorillas and Rizzoti is much happier. Therefore Scott Baker could have been traded to the D-Backs and the Twins would have gotten Trevor Bauer and Willy Mo Pena in return. But now Pena is in Japan and its the fault of the medical staff because all the pope wanted was some privacy.

Its really elementary.

USAFChief
04-12-2012, 12:52 AM
Willy Mo Pena signed with a Japanese team this winter. He was walking through the woods to get there and he ran across the pope and you know what the pope does in the woods. Therefore Rizzoti likes Gorillas as long as they are not rogue and the Mayo Clinic has a steam grate which is the source of all information contained in the head of George Will. Vodkadave sleeps on this Steam grate blocking anything from flowing in and out. Which makes George Will dizzy but it also contains the Gorillas and Rizzoti is much happier. Therefore Scott Baker could have been traded to the D-Backs and the Twins would have gotten Trevor Bauer and Willy Mo Pena in return. But now Pena is in Japan and its the fault of the medical staff because all the pope wanted was some privacy...



...and the death spiral continues.

gil4
04-12-2012, 08:04 AM
No way I know enough to criticize the medical staff. I will criticize whoever is collecting the Twins player voodoo dolls and the manufacturer of the push pins.
I think it's Ozzie. He moved to Miami to have easier access to supply, so watch out.

Riverbrian
04-12-2012, 08:06 AM
Willy Mo Pena signed with a Japanese team this winter. He was walking through the woods to get there and he ran across the pope and you know what the pope does in the woods. Therefore Rizzoti likes Gorillas as long as they are not rogue and the Mayo Clinic has a steam grate which is the source of all information contained in the head of George Will. Vodkadave sleeps on this Steam grate blocking anything from flowing in and out. Which makes George Will dizzy but it also contains the Gorillas and Rizzoti is much happier. Therefore Scott Baker could have been traded to the D-Backs and the Twins would have gotten Trevor Bauer and Willy Mo Pena in return. But now Pena is in Japan and its the fault of the medical staff because all the pope wanted was some privacy...



...and the death spiral continues.

It's a dry sense of humor and I get stared at a lot because of it. I apologize.

Riverbrian
04-12-2012, 08:17 AM
I think it's Ozzie. He moved to Miami to have easier access to supply, so watch out.

It could be. Therefore I won't feel bad about Ozzies suspension for admiring his old catcher Ramon Castro.

diehardtwinsfan
04-12-2012, 10:35 AM
I was locked and loaded to go ballistic (again) on the Twins med staff for this, but I can understand this one. First, here's some info on this injury:

http://www.drdavidgeier.com/injuries/flexor-pronator-strain/

The usual diagnosis for this is rest - ONCE it is confirmed that it isn't the ulnar ligament, usually from an MRI. That's why the Twins, a week ago, said the MRI was good news. But this tendon has apparently been through enough that it appears the problems is chronic, or can't be pitched through. Thus, the "clean up" surgery, which I assume means smoothing out (or snipping) some frayed pieces of tendon.

I could argue the Twins should have done an MRI a month ago, but I don't know if it would have changed much.

Baker has had elbow problems for much of the past several years... How much "rest" did he need. My frustration is that I'd think this should have been done last October.

diehardtwinsfan
04-12-2012, 10:45 AM
Comparing Rizotti to Baker is kind of ridiculous. The Twins got Rizotti for cash considerations precisely because guys like that are fairly easy to come by. He was signed as depth, and he might get a Garret Jones type shot should the injury bug bite... and if he makes good on it, great. But the Twins, like the Phillies, know that isn't likely, which was why he was cheap.

Baker is a different animal. He's not cheap and will cost 9.5 M next year to someone who wants him, and with the injury, there's a big question mark as to what he's going to look like. I doubt teams would risk 9.5M plus a prospect to take that chance, especially since Baker will likely be an FA and sign for a 40 man roster spot and a few mil plus incentives. If he and the Twins have a good relationship, this might be the time they consider signing him to a 1 year cheap deal with an option that kicks in for 2 or 3 years at a nice salary should he do well, but other than that, Baker is going to be an FA next year, and he won't be making what he will this season.

chaderic20
04-12-2012, 11:43 AM
Willy Mo Pena signed with a Japanese team this winter. He was walking through the woods to get there and he ran across the pope and you know what the pope does in the woods. Therefore Rizzoti likes Gorillas as long as they are not rogue and the Mayo Clinic has a steam grate which is the source of all information contained in the head of George Will. Vodkadave sleeps on this Steam grate blocking anything from flowing in and out. Which makes George Will dizzy but it also contains the Gorillas and Rizzoti is much happier. Therefore Scott Baker could have been traded to the D-Backs and the Twins would have gotten Trevor Bauer and Willy Mo Pena in return. But now Pena is in Japan and its the fault of the medical staff because all the pope wanted was some privacy.

Its really elementary.

Best post I've read on this site yet.

USAFChief
04-12-2012, 11:47 AM
It's a dry sense of humor and I get stared at a lot because of it. I apologize.

Don't apologize...the post was hilarious. I was making a poor attempt to add to genius. I should know better.

Riverbrian
04-12-2012, 12:05 PM
Thanks... I will carry on... I'm posting alot because I'm trying to reach the AAA level.

Actually... I love this site... I'm such a Baseball Nut and Twins fan. My friends around here can't keep up with me and I really have no one to REALLY talk about the Twins and baseball. People like us can kind of be isolated in that sense.

DJSim22
04-13-2012, 01:06 PM
Baker has always driven me nuts. He has good stuff, I question what's between the ears. How many times has he cruised through 3 or 4 innings, get into a jam in the 5th, piss down his leg and be out of the game before the 6th?

Only Twin who drives me insane, although Liriano is getting there.

DJSim22
04-13-2012, 01:11 PM
I think they deserve blame for the Mauer situation, for at the very least not being clear.
But I'm not sure how the medical staff is supposed to magically fix arms (which ALL teams in baseball deal with) or fix concussion syndromes. My biggest problem was the fact they would have a guy sit on the bench "hurt" for 4-5 days before deciding to DL him. But I think that is more a GM/Coach issue than a team doctor issue.

The Twins had a million injuries last year, but at the end of the day it comes down to really crappy luck more than anything.


The injuries are mainly bad luck, although I would hope they are looking into their offseason programs ect.

Misdiagnosing inuries however is not bad luck.

Shane Wahl
04-13-2012, 01:23 PM
I actually had to read the thread a couple of times to get the connection between Baker and Matt Rizotti and the Mayo Clinic and Steam Grates. When you read it the second time... It becomes much clearer.

If you think about what Labombo is saying... its quite simple... Think of it this way.

Willy Mo Pena signed with a Japanese team this winter. He was walking through the woods to get there and he ran across the pope and you know what the pope does in the woods. Therefore Rizzoti likes Gorillas as long as they are not rogue and the Mayo Clinic has a steam grate which is the source of all information contained in the head of George Will. Vodkadave sleeps on this Steam grate blocking anything from flowing in and out. Which makes George Will dizzy but it also contains the Gorillas and Rizzoti is much happier. Therefore Scott Baker could have been traded to the D-Backs and the Twins would have gotten Trevor Bauer and Willy Mo Pena in return. But now Pena is in Japan and its the fault of the medical staff because all the pope wanted was some privacy.

Its really elementary.

This post should win some sort of Twins Daily award.

CDog
04-13-2012, 01:34 PM
Baker has always driven me nuts. He has good stuff, I question what's between the ears. How many times has he cruised through 3 or 4 innings, get into a jam in the 5th, piss down his leg and be out of the game before the 6th?

Only Twin who drives me insane, although Liriano is getting there.

One could probably count them. Of course, he would then want to do the same for quite a few others to see if that number was much different than it was for other pitchers for that original number to mean anything.

CDog
04-13-2012, 01:36 PM
The injuries are mainly bad luck, although I would hope they are looking into their offseason programs ect.

Misdiagnosing inuries however is not bad luck.

I mentioned in another thread, but I think it's worth a repeat. I poked around with some (admittedly not super deep) research this morning and everything I saw is that Baker's injury was diagnosed (and treated) correctly. (With "correctly" meaning as people with expertise typically would do to get the desired result.)